Alcohol and Good Friday (reloaded)

philologos

javaboy wrote: »

Careful now.

Apologies, that was out of line. I believe that everyone can get along without buying drink on a single day of the year, and I think that there shouldn't be much harm if at all in the Government respecting and tolerating the majority religious tradition in the State.

javaboy

Jakkass wrote: »

I believe that everyone can get along without buying drink on a single day of the year, and I think that there shouldn't be much harm if at all in the Government respecting and tolerating the majority religious tradition in the State.

Why stop at the no drink on Good Friday rule? Why not prohibit the sale of condoms? This is not supposed to be a religious state. There is no state religion. Let the people who follow that religious tradition follow it and let everybody else get on with what they want to do.

It's disgraceful that we still have this kind of thing. Should the supermarkets not be allowed sell meat too?

Bobeagleburger

Hope nobody has plans for any masturbation on Good Friday. It's strickly forbidden. :cool:

philologos

javaboy wrote: »

Why stop at the no drink on Good Friday rule? Why not prohibit the sale of condoms?

Banning condoms == Catholicism
Banning condoms != Christianity in general.

I personally can get behind the don't drink on Friday rule, if they did ban condoms, it personally wouldn't affect me either. However, respecting a religious holiday is different than applying religious rules on a general population.

javaboy wrote: »

This is not supposed to be a religious state. There is no state religion. Let the people who follow that religious tradition follow it and let everybody else get on with what they want to do.

There is no state religion, you're correct, but I don't see how respecting the religious tradition of the majority is such a bad thing if it is a cultural rule in society. I think that secularism can go too far, and I hope that it doesn't in this country.

javaboy wrote: »

It's disgraceful that we still have this kind of thing. Should the supermarkets not be allowed sell meat too?

I actually wouldn't mind if they did this either even though this isn't a codified rule of Christianity.

rainbow kirby

Jakkass wrote: »

There is no state religion, you're correct, but I don't see how respecting the religious tradition of the majority is such a bad thing if it is a cultural rule in society. I think that secularism can go too far, and I hope that it doesn't in this country.

If there is no state religion, then the law of the country should not be based on religion. As I've said before - if Christians choose not to drink tomorrow - fine, but religious practice should not be state law.

KoolKid

rarnes1 wrote: »

Hope nobody has plans for any masturbation on Good Friday. It's strickly forbidden. :cool:

What if I start before midnight but it takes longer than expected
Ahh what matters.. I'm going to hell for doing it anytime:p

philologos

rainbow kirby wrote: »

If there is no state religion, then the law of the country should not be based on religion. As I've said before - if Christians choose not to drink tomorrow - fine, but religious practice should not be state law.

I don't agree with the should. I'm not really guilt tripped towards changing the way we do things currently. I don't see why we should at all. I don't see anything at all wrong with recognising one's religious holiday and to ensure it is as peaceful as possible for those who seek to take it seriously.

coffee_cake

Tbh, while I don't drink I think it's a bit stupid that the sale and serving of it tomorrow is banned. It's not that people necessarily need to drink, it's that they should have the option themselves whether to drink or not. More principle than anything.

As for anyone who wants their religious beliefs facilitated, firstly there's no more reason why that should supercede people wanting their alcohol beliefs(!) facilitated, and secondly the mere ban of the sale makes people drink double, judging by the rush on the shops. People would probably drink a lot less tomorrow if it weren't for the ban. pure speculation, but after all the stories of people stocking up...

Sam Vimes

Jakkass wrote: »

I don't agree with the should. I'm not really guilt tripped towards changing the way we do things currently. I don't see why we should at all. I don't see anything at all wrong with recognising one's religious holiday and to ensure it is as peaceful as possible for those who seek to take it seriously.

I'm not really sure of your point here. You say that "respecting a religious holiday is different than applying religious rules on a general population." but then say that you don't see why things should be changed.

If you want to not drink on Friday that's your choice but by having a law that forces the pubs to close are you not "applying religious rules on a general population"?

Or are you saying that it's ok to do that? I'm confused

stepbar

Go up the North. No restrictions there.

V9

I'm going to drink, possibly gamble, and most likely masturbate tomorrow, just another Friday to Vialli.

Gazza22

Flukey wrote: »

So I suppose you don't take holidays at Christmas, don't go to Christmas parties, always return your Christmas bonus, and won't be taking Easter Monday off and were disgusted by the fact that your workplace/place of study was closed recently on St. Patrick's Day. You'd probably much preferred to have been able to "go about your business as normal" of studying or working, and you would prefer to do so during Christmas too. You probably also hate the fact that places of education and most workplaces close at weekends, particularly on Sunday. :rolleyes

I grow tired of this arguement that there is a high level of hypocrisy involved when Atheist's/non-Christians celebrate Christmas etc. The fact is, Christmas and many other holidays have deviated so far from the Christian story/message that you can practically ignore the religious part. St. Patricks Day? Don't make me laugh who thinks of St. Patrick? As i said in a previous post, "I tend not to think about the relgious side of things, it's more tradition over religion for a lot of people in modern times tbh. For example my Muslim neighbours happily celebrate the santa claus element of Christmas for their kids. Religion goes out the window."

Sure the whole 'weekend', 'Sunday rest day' idea (among other things in our society) originated from religion influence albeit in ancient times, they are now just are integral part of our modern week - nothing religious about it. So let's not be petty about things.

People have no problem with the good things that come as a result of Christian holidays in Ireland.

Yeah greedy cnuts the lot of us

There may not be laws associated with those other days, but the Christian Churches don't like murder, so maybe we should get rid of the laws outlawing that too.

I'll just contribute ':rolleyes:' to the above because it's just ridiculous.

As I said in my earlier post, the vast majority of us probably don't go to a pub on a lot more than 2 days in the year, including many Fridays, so surely we can deal with 2 days out of the entire year that they are closed, whatever our religious beliefs.

No that doesn't make sense. Beliefs are beliefs and if i don't agree with the principle behind alcohol sales being banned so why should i "deal with" it? And just for the record i'm not some raving alcoholic, i don't go to the pub too often either but the whole point of me getting into this stupid repetitive argument year upon year is to high light that people, business' etc should be given the choice

I've no problem with pubs closing for 2 days in the year, as i'm sure a lot of people haven't.. but I don't agree that ALL of them MUST close.

Many pubs are privately owned, often by families, so they have to keep it going all year round, even though they do get away themselves occasionally. They cannot close the place though, so they have to organise cover. Aren't they entitled to be able to close the place for two days in the year? Workplaces like hospitals or fire stations have to be open all year round, but a pub is not exactly an essential service.

Em pubs can close when they like, there isn't any law that forbids them from doing so. That's a very generalising statement to make. Sure some bar owners will happily welcome tomorrow as a break but others and i'm thinking of the secular owners will look down on this as a loss of earnings, they are not Christian, why should they close???

While they will be closed tomorrow, you can see through this thread and others, that many of us will be getting a few cans in tomorrow night, so it is not really affecting us and this thread is just a chance to jump on a bandwagon and vent off. Most will be having a great time tomorrow night, and on Saturday in the pub they'll be telling all their friends how great a time they had, rather than be complaining about the pubs having been closed. Sure, it would be nice to be going to the pub tomorrow night, but we'll survive.

Yes count me in on that Again i'm not going to sit in all night tomorrow craving a visit to the pub all huffy, i am well able to have self restraint in that sense but it is not all about the alcohol. I probably won't even drink tomorrow.

Anyway, if you do stay at home, it'll give you a chance to think about how best to tell your boss or the person that runs your school or college, that you no longer want the place to be closed at weekends, during Easter or at Christmas, and you do not want your Christmas bonus or a Christmas party or any of that stuff ever again, because they all arise out of Christian holidays and other things related to Ireland being a Christian country.

As i mentioned above tradition runs the show now, not religion. And just FYI plenty of people do have to work weekends, Easter, Christmas etc

Happy Easter and enjoy your few cans tomorrow night.

Thanks, you too

The law will change in the future, i have no doubt about that.

For example tomorrow for the first time ever an independant restaurant has obtained a special licence to serve alcohol - who obtained this? A secular owner who was tired of losing alcohol revenue on Good Friday so don't just assume every establishment welcomes Good Friday.

The state also took nine restaurants to court last year for serving alcohol on Good Friday but the Judge struck out the cases, stating that the prosecutions were "ludicrous" and "ridiculous".

Not directed at you Flukey or our discussion or any normal people but for all the religious nuts on AH as of late, that is all i have to say on this matter so don't bother quoting little things i mentioned about religion/christianty and reeling off the scriptures etc to me because you won't get a reply. It's been discussed enough and i now bow out until next year, after the fourth year of having this discussion!

JC 2K3

Jakkass wrote: »

I don't agree with the should. I'm not really guilt tripped towards changing the way we do things currently. I don't see why we should at all. I don't see anything at all wrong with recognising one's religious holiday and to ensure it is as peaceful as possible for those who seek to take it seriously.

You've been encouraging people throughout this thread to buy their alcohol today if they want to drink tomorrow....

How will the sale of alcohol tomorrow make tomorrow's holiday more peaceful for the religious?

rainbow kirby

stepbar wrote: »

Go up the North. No restrictions there.

Got thoroughly wasted in London on Good Friday last year, it was a great night

javaboy

Jakkass wrote: »

Banning condoms == Catholicism
Banning condoms != Christianity in general.

What does that have to do with anything? You're saying the state should "respect" (in reality that means enforce) some traditions of the majority religion, which AFAIK is Catholicism. Whether Christianity in general is against condoms is irrelevant. So I think my question is fine. If the state kowtows to the Catholic church on the drink issue, why not on condoms?

However, respecting a religious holiday is different than applying religious rules on a general population.

It is enforcing religious rules on the general population. The church says no drink on Good Friday and the so called secular state obeys.

philologos

javaboy wrote: »

What does that have to do with anything? You're saying the state should "respect" (in reality that means enforce) some traditions of the majority religion, which AFAIK is Catholicism. Whether Christianity in general is against condoms is irrelevant. So I think my question is fine. If the state kowtows to the Catholic church on the drink issue, why not on condoms?

One would have to assess the reasoning behind limiting alcohol on Good Friday and Christmas, to see that it isn't like with like with banning condoms.

It is to keep respect and peace during a day which is considered holy to the majority of the population, and to allow those working on Good Friday to have an opportunity to attend church and to reflect on the Passion in peace. I think that's reasonable, and admirable of the State in both cases that they should accomodate Christians in general on this island for that day.

javaboy wrote: »

It is enforcing religious rules on the general population. The church says no drink on Good Friday and the so called secular state obeys.

It provides a climate by which there won't be as many disturbances so that people can worship. As I say I don't think that is "disgraceful", shameful, or anything like that. Irrespective of the pressure of secularism, this is something that I think should be kept.

JC 2K3 wrote: »

You've been encouraging people throughout this thread to buy their alcohol today if they want to drink tomorrow....

How will the sale of alcohol tomorrow make tomorrow's holiday more peaceful for the religious?

Quite simple really. There will be less of it than if it was for sale on Friday also. More peaceful for everyone really, more peaceful for the Gardaí who would be on the streets trying to deal with the drunk and disorderly nonsense, more peaceful for people in A&E units in comparison to a normal weekend.

I'm starting to think that even under Islamic rule that people would afford more respect of the Christian holy days than many atheists and agnostics seem to afford.

Flukey

Ironically enough, there is another thread going on at present asking if people have Friday off. In that one it is the fact that their workplaces are open that is annoying people. So we have threads where people are giving out about workplaces being open and another giving out about workplaces being closed. I am sure many people who are delighted not to be working tomorrow are annoyed about the pubs being closed. We'll have others sympathising with people having to go to work tomorrow, but wanting bar staff to be at work. So many contradictions between the two threads and the opposing opinions people would have on each of them. I am glad to have tomorrow off, and I have no problem with those in the pub trade also being closed. It is one day, not the six weeks of Lent we are talking about.

Gazza22 mentioned about not minding some pubs being closed, but it shouldn't be all. Would he and others feel the same about schools or other workplaces of the same type? We'd get the "How come they get to be off and we don't? We should all be closed because we are in the same business." argument running. The arguments change to suit the case. People would end up arguing against themselves on the same point. Lots of businesses close en masse at certain times and not a word of complaint is said about it, and it can be for weeks or even months, like educational establishments. Pubs do it for just two days in the entire year, and we get uproar, especially for one of them.

JC 2K3

A fully secular society would have no less holidays than now. Saying that Christianity is the cause of all holidays is a load of crap.

Jakkass wrote: »

Quite simple really. There will be less of it than if it was for sale on Friday also. More peaceful for everyone really, more peaceful for the Gardaí who would be on the streets trying to deal with the drunk and disorderly nonsense, more peaceful for people in A&E units in comparison to a normal weekend.

Most clubs are opening at 12am afaik, which is only an hour or two later than usual. It will have no effect on A&E or Gardaí.

It's not a huge inconvenience to anyone who wants to drink (apart from not being able to go for a pint or two in the afternoon, which, tbh, disturbs no one), but you're not really explaining the point of it.

philologos

JC 2K3 wrote: »

A fully secular society would have no less holidays than now. Saying that Christianity is the cause of all holidays is a load of crap.

You have to admit there is a bit of hypocrisy on the issue however. People are trying to seek the benefit of being off for Good Friday, which is all well and good, and then people are all too easy to criticise the Governments policy on Good Friday itself.

latenia

So at 23.55 tonight a bean-gard storms into the pub and starts schreeching at everyone to get out; fckn wagon doesn't even give us a chance to finish up our drinks. At 00.05 there are 100 people standing on the pavement going "What the fck is this sh1t?"
Before anyone asks, yes, she was pretty hot-maybe overdoing it a tad with the fake tan/blonde hair thing but the blue pants fitted her arse well unlike the majority of the beans you see walking around.

Sam Vimes

What did Jesus say when they put him up on the cross?

"Don't touch my easter eggs, I'll be back on Sunday"


boom boom

Philistine

Pub raided by EIGHT gaurds at 12:40. Talk about overkill!!! Is there no one being stabbed, mugged, raped or killed tonight??? So much for them saying they are under resourced or don't have sufficent manpower. Maybe these public sector workers are trying to claw back some of the pension levy by working overtime!!!

mloc

This religiofacism needs sorting out soon.

Kazuma

pithater1 wrote: »

Ah deadly is it the time of the year for this thread already

Anyway methinks we'll be stuck with this law for another 10 years or so until the current generation of elderly mass goers die off.

Possibly a bit harsh but thats how I think it'll be tbh.

WIN!

Flukey

All those disgusted at the pubs being closed today should have a protest.:mad: Here is what to do. Don't go near a pub at all for the next month, or on any Friday ever again. That'll teach those nasty publicans to close their doors on you.:( It'll get the government too, by reducing the amount of duty that they will take in on alcohol sales. To make sure they really take a hit, don't go near the off-licenses either. Then, come next Christmas, don't go into the pubs for the whole month of December or for the first two weeks in January, so they don't get any Christmas or New Year business. Include the off-licenses too. Yes sir, that'll really show them. How dare they close their pubs for 2 days in the year!!!

philologos

Flukey wrote: »

All those disgusted at the pubs being closed today should have a protest.:mad: Here is what to do. Don't go near a pub at all for the next month, or on any Friday ever again. That'll teach those nasty publicans to close their doors on you.:( It'll get the government too, by reducing the amount of duty that they will take in on alcohol sales. To make sure they really take a hit, don't go near the off-licenses either. Then, come next Christmas, don't go into the pubs for the whole month of December or for the first two weeks in January, so they don't get any Christmas or New Year business. Include the off-licenses too. Yes sir, that'll really show them. How dare they close their pubs for 2 days in the year!!!

Voluntary prohibition?

I find it funny the fuss that some people make over it too. I'd say the workers in the pubs could do with the day off?

mloc

Flukey wrote: »

All those disgusted at the pubs being closed today should have a protest.:mad: Here is what to do. Don't go near a pub at all for the next month, or on any Friday ever again. That'll teach those nasty publicans to close their doors on you.:( It'll get the government too, by reducing the amount of duty that they will take in on alcohol sales. To make sure they really take a hit, don't go near the off-licenses either. Then, come next Christmas, don't go into the pubs for the whole month of December or for the first two weeks in January, so they don't get any Christmas or New Year business. Include the off-licenses too. Yes sir, that'll really show them. How dare they close their pubs for 2 days in the year!!!

Em, you do realise most pubs want the business (some even open anyway, illegally) and its the government, not the pubs, that are inflicting the law on us?

philologos

mloc wrote: »

Em, you do realise most pubs want the business (some even open anyway, illegally) and its the government, not the pubs, that are inflicting the law on us?

Nice use of terms, "inflicting". I don't see how:
1) Letting pub workers off 2 days in the year.
2) Not allowing people to purchase drink on Good Friday.
is really all that bad a thing.

Even if the pubs want the business, the workers should still be given some consideration.

nomorebadtown

didnt have any time to get the booze in yesterday

hands are shaking

christ i'm dying for a drink

KoolKid

Ehh?? Letting pub workers off 2 days in the year.
Didnt realise bar men etc had to work 363 days a year..
Are they not entitled to the same time off as the rest of us.?