Ronaldo eh?

ironingbored

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

Bit unfair there ironing. ronaldo is a very skilful player, I know that he is not universally liked by the oppo but he certainly is great to watch against every team except your own.

And as for fergie whinging, what's new.

There is only one Ronaldo in my opinion. The same Luis Nazário de Lima who has scored 62 goals for Brazil, won two world cups and top WC goal scorer plus 272 career goals. An this despite two very serious knee ligament injuries.

The other Ronaldo has won nothing apart from the Premiership. Just like Rooney it's all hype and when it's men against boys they cannot hack it. I will eat my words when he dominates a CL final or scores against teams other than Sunderland, Derby and the like.

Thanx 4 The Fish

I imagine that you should not have too long to wait.

PHB

ironingbored wrote: »

I will eat my words when he dominates a CL final

When did 'the real Ronaldo' ever dominate a CL final?

mike65

Any final?

Mike.

Thanx 4 The Fish

World cup Final v Germany, although to say he dominated is maybe overstating it somewhat. But he did stick two past the keeper who I thought was best in the world at the time.

Melion

To be honest, at this stage anyone who doubts Cristiano Ronaldo's talent and his place in the top 3 players in the world seriously needs to get their head examined or really have to start to question their football knowledge.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Top three players in the world is a bit much, anybody who says that to question that you need your head read, seriously needs their head read.

Could concede maybe one of the top three in his position.

ironingbored

PHB wrote: »

When did 'the real Ronaldo' ever dominate a CL final?

Do you really think united's Ronaldo can be compared to the Brazilian Ronaldo? Ronaldo (O Fenômeno) has won every honour in the game bar the CL. Every honour.

Melion

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

Top three players in the world is a bit much, anybody who says that to question that you need your head read, seriously needs their head read.

Could concede maybe one of the top three in his position.

Most effective player in the world IMO, is doing something this season that nobody has done in a long time in any league. He is absolutely devastating.

Unearthly

Melion wrote: »

To be honest, at this stage anyone who doubts Cristiano Ronaldo's talent and his place in the top 3 players in the world seriously needs to get their head examined or really have to start to question their football knowledge.

They probably think they look clever by 'thinking outside the box'

He'll never rate Ronaldo no matter what he does. Much like jealous opposition fans will never rate the likes of Fabregas, Torres etc

laughable

Melion

ironingbored wrote: »

Do you really think united's Ronaldo can be compared to the Brazilian Ronaldo? Ronaldo (O Fenômeno) has won every honour in the game bar the CL. Every honour.

C. Ronaldo is 22. He has maybe another 13 years left in the game.

ironingbored

Top three in the world? Does not hold a candle to Kaka', Messi, Ronaldinho, Seedorf, Maldini, Del Piero, Shevchenko, Henry, Trezeguet, Robinho, Raul, etc.

What I cannot stand is the constant hype surrounding a player who has won nothing of real note (Premiership excluded). It is this overvaluation of Premiership players that gets to me. If he wins anything like the honours the players above have won I will rethink my criticism.

Melion

ironingbored wrote: »

Top three in the world? Does not hold a candle to Kaka', Messi, Ronaldinho, Seedorf, Maldini, Del Piero, Shevchenko, Henry, Trezeguet, Robinho, Raul, etc.

What I cannot stand is the constant hype surrounding a player who has won nothing of real note (Premiership excluded). It is this overvaluation of Premiership players that gets to me. If he wins anything like the honours the players above have won I will rethink my criticism.

Just before i go and get ready for work, answer one thing honestly. Do you really think that Shevchenko is a better player than Ronaldo?

Who cares if hasnt won anything, what has Torres won? Still one of the best strikers in the world. They are young and havent had the time at the top that the players you mentioned have.

ironingbored

Melion wrote: »

Just before i go and get ready for work, answer one thing honestly. Do you really think that Shevchenko is a better player than Ronaldo?

Who cares if hasnt won anything, what has Torres won? Still one of the best strikers in the world. They are young and havent had the time at the top that the players you mentioned have.

You mean the 127 goals in 208 game Shevchenko with a rake of honours? Answer: yes.

therecklessone

ironingbored wrote: »

You mean the 127 goals in 208 game Shevchenko with a rake of honours? Answer: yes.

No world cup, no European Championship, one Serie A and one CL medal.

Unless you cound domestic cups and the Ukranian league that is...

Im_No_Superman

Shevchenko a better player than Ronaldo!? Have I stumbled into the New Torres Book thread by mistake!

Melion

ironingbored wrote: »

You mean the 127 goals in 208 game Shevchenko with a rake of honours? Answer: yes.

You'd take Shevchenko above Ronaldo and Torres?

Well then sir, you dont have a notion of what you're talking about. Who cares what a player has won in the past, its the present that matters.

And yes its a Liverpool fan saying forget the past

Unearthly

ironingbored wrote: »

Top three in the world? Does not hold a candle to Kaka', Messi, Ronaldinho, Seedorf, Maldini, Del Piero, Shevchenko, Henry, Trezeguet, Robinho, Raul, etc.

What I cannot stand is the constant hype surrounding a player who has won nothing of real note (Premiership excluded). It is this overvaluation of Premiership players that gets to me. If he wins anything like the honours the players above have won I will rethink my criticism.

First of all it's looking like 4 premiership teams will make the QF of the champions league. So I don't know what your problem is with the premiership, but it's not backed up by facts.

Second of all what a player wins, doesn't tell the whole picture. There have been plenty of great players in the past who haven't won everything.

Third of all Ronaldo is still very young. He has played well in a European championship and world cup and been the best premiership player in the last 18 months, and he is joint top scorer in the champions league this year.

Fourth of all, Shevchenko better than Ronaldo?

Fifth of all, what has Robinho won apart from La Liga?

Is there any chance you might be digging yourself a hole?

therecklessone

Unearthly wrote: »

Second of all what a player wins, doesn't tell the whole picture. There have been plenty of great players in the past who haven't won everything.

Well said, LIneker scored 44 in 80 for England and better than 1 in 2 in his club career, only won a Cup-Winners Cup plus two domestic cups in his career.

PHB

therecklessone wrote: »

No world cup, no European Championship, one Serie A and one CL medal.

Unless you cound domestic cups and the Ukranian league that is...

Shh, Ronaldo's ****, every other player is better than him! The English media overrate players, hence Ronaldo must be secretly ****. What do you mean he's scored 30 goals this year and it's only March. Must be a mistake! He's only one one league?

I love when people list players better than him:
It's not that I don't disagree there are some, but let's look at it

By the age of 23, the following players had won:

Zidane - Nothing
Seedorf - 2 CL's, La Liga, 2 Dutch titles
Maldini - Serie A, 2 CLs
Del Piero - 2 Serie As, 1 CL
Shevchenko - Ukranian League 5 Times
Trezeguet - World Cup, EC
Raul - La Liga twice and a CL
Henry - World Cup, EC
Ronaldinho - Brazilian League, Intertoto Cup
Robinho - La Liga
Kaka' - Serie A
Messi - Still only 20, has won the League and the CL [although played no part in the latter campaign due to injury]

Have a look at that list. Trophies don't mean everything by the age of 23 Why? Because Messi has a CL medal, but played no real part in it. People win medals as part of a medal winning squad, that's why Traore has a CL medal before the age of 23.

He's 23 and has already won the premiership, dragging the team along the way, being the best player in one of the top 3 leagues in the world.

He is the first United player to score 30 goals in a season since George Best. That record has stood for 40 years. United have had some pretty impressive players since then.

ironingbored

Melion wrote: »

You'd take Shevchenko above Ronaldo and Torres?

Well then sir, you dont have a notion of what you're talking about. Who cares what a player has won in the past, its the present that matters.

And yes its a Liverpool fan saying forget the past

Obviously, I wouldn't choose Shevchenko in 2008. He is now 31. If a few of the posters here could take off their sun-newspaper-journalism-like tinted glasses and looked beyond the British Isles. Sheva is the 2nd top scorer in AC Milan history, twice top scorer in Serie A, etc...

As I have said, if i am proved wrong and Ronaldo wins a CL or two, does something except dive in a Euro Championship, and scores relatively consistently against quality opposition, I will admit I was wrong.

StickyMcGinty

Unearthly wrote: »

Second of all what a player wins, doesn't tell the whole picture. There have been plenty of great players in the past who haven't won everything.

totally agree, what they win tells us nothing. Djimi Traore has a champions league medal ffs.

But what a player himself wins tells us a lot. World Player of the Year awards, golden boots, total goals per season.... and when you measure Ronaldo by this he has achieved nothing yet (bar this season, which isnt even over yet). we dont even know if he can consistently play like he has this season ffs.

Unearthly wrote: »

Fourth of all, Shevchenko better than Ronaldo?

Shevshenko has had an illustrious career, of course he has achieved more than ronaldo. whether he is a better player or not, time can only tell.

Unearthly wrote: »

Fifth of all, what has Robinho won apart from La Liga?

Copa America, he won the golden boot AND player of the tournament aswell

ironingbored

Unearthly wrote: »

First of all it's looking like 4 premiership teams will make the QF of the champions league. So I don't know what your problem is with the premiership, but it's not backed up by facts.

Second of all what a player wins, doesn't tell the whole picture. There have been plenty of great players in the past who haven't won everything.

Third of all Ronaldo is still very young. He has played well in a European championship and world cup and been the best premiership player in the last 18 months, and he is joint top scorer in the champions league this year.

Fourth of all, Shevchenko better than Ronaldo?

Fifth of all, what has Robinho won apart from La Liga?

Is there any chance you might be digging yourself a hole?

Yeah, but we all want Barca to win seeing that they have a monopoly on brilliant players. If Liverpool won it (perish the thought) what would it say about the quality of the CL.

Robinho's only a year older that Ronaldivo

Guy:Incognito

therecklessone wrote: »

No world cup, no European Championship, one Serie A and one CL medal.

Unless you cound domestic cups and the Ukranian league that is...

Players cant be judged by international honours. You cant don anything (much:)) about the country you play for. Was George Best not a great player becasue he never played an international tournament?


Best player in the world has to be broken down into positions anyway. Is Ronaldo better than John Terry? Attackign yes, defending no, so cant really compare. Cassillas is a better goalkeeper than Ronaldo, how do you compare them?

defenders and goalkeppers seem to be automatically eliminated from "the best player in the world" discussions.

StickyMcGinty wrote: »

.

But what a player himself wins tells us a lot. World Player of the Year awards, golden boots, total goals per season.... and when you measure Ronaldo by this he has achieved nothing yet (bar this season, which isnt even over yet). we dont even know if he can consistently play like he has this season ffs.

How do you judge defenders tho. things like world player of he year are voted on ratehr than based on actual achievements. Golden boot rule sout all none forward players

Peyton Manning

Stekelly wrote: »

defenders and goalkeppers seem to be automatically eliminated from "the best player in the world" discussions.

Thats true. Sad, but true, as Buffon is definitely one of the top 3 players in the world.

MrJoeSoap

Stekelly wrote: »

defenders and goalkeppers seem to be automatically eliminated from "the best player in the world" discussions.

Cannavaro being a notable recent exception.

Therecklessone wasn't trying to belittle Shevchenko's career I don't think, he was just pointing out that you can't judge a player by what they win alone, especially not at an international level, as you say.

To say Ronaldo was better than Cristiano Ronaldo is a moot point imo. One played for a country who were good enough to win a World Cup, one doesn't (yet anyway). They play different positions. One is just finishing a career, the other is early on in his.

You can only judge/compare a player on talent, and that is when the debate becomes personal preference and pretty irrelevant.

Anyway, Le Tissier kicks both their asses.

therecklessone

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

Therecklessone wasn't trying to belittle Shevchenko's career I don't think, he was just pointing out that you can't judge a player by what they win alone, especially not at an international level, as you say.

Plus I was trying to highlight the inconsitency in the argument put forward by ironingbored depending on the player he was talking about.

Guy:Incognito

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

Anyway, Le Tissier kicks both their asses.

Only in a "who has the biggest ass" competition.

MrJoeSoap

Stekelly wrote: »

Only in a "who has the biggest ass" competition.

That too.

Another successful hijack.

Nunu

ironingbored wrote: »

Robinho's only a year older that Ronaldivo

You hate Ronaldo quite obviously and the main crux of it seems to be because of diving. Yet you seem to have no problem with Robinho though (incidentally I agree is one of the greatesat players out there), who is an infinitely worse perpetrator of the art.

Ronaldo, performance wise, is the best player on the planet right now.

Daysha

ironingbored, you seem to only judge players on when they play in big games and when they win something, but theres just so much more too it then that.

Take Kaka, a great player obviously. And as he showed last year he can hake it at the highest level. All very well and good, but does that mean we should just ignore the countless matches against piss-poor Serie A opposition where he's doing fcuk all?

You also seem to regard the other Ronaldo and Shevchenko in high esteem thanks to their goal scoring record. Tell me, how many of their goals came against teams like Reggina, Verona, Picenza, or any other mediocre Italian teams?

If thats's the case, shouldn't C. Ronaldo's 30 goals between August and March be as equally respected? After all, his goals came against similar opposition

I just don't understand how you can say Shevenchenko or Ronaldo are better players because they have so many goals, and then you completely ignore the fact that they both have 10 YEAR head-starts!

On the trophy-winning side of things, I think the other posters have showed you up on that end

And one final point, you specifically said that Shevchenko IS a better player than Ronaldo, and then barely a few posts later said not the Shevenchenko of current days, you meant the Shevchenko or 5-6 years ago.

If you had said Shevchenko WAS a better player than Ronaldo, you wouldn't have got such a heated response.

Tusky

Ronaldo is a class act. I dont understand why we have to have one of these threads every two weeks. For me, hes the best winger in the world and among the best players in the world. Its too hard to pick a single best player in the worls as everyone is playing in different positions against different oppositions in different teams.

Dubit10

ironingbored wrote: »

Yeah, but we all want Barca to win seeing that they have a monopoly on brilliant players. If Liverpool won it (perish the thought) what would it say about the quality of the CL.

Robinho's only a year older that Ronaldivo

Dont get the whole angle of "if liverpool won it what would it say about the quality of thee CL"??? It would say that it is the hardest cup to win in all of football and they would have won it again...thus showing what a great manager Rafa is and what a great fighting spirit we have in the team despite all the tripe been thrown around in the media etc.....why is liverpool been dragged into a thread entitled "Ronaldo Eh".. For the record i think Ronaldo is a great player who may or may not go on to become one of the greats of the game.IMO he will need to harden up a little because thats the game of football.Defenders are going to target him for hard tackles because of his talent.It's part and parcel of the game and if he cant take it thats his problem.It's not going to stop and in fact the more he (and fergie) moans about it the more he will targeted by opposing players.I despite being a liverpool fan like to watch him play but cant stand all the arms being thrown in the air rubbish everytime he goes to ground.He is doing himself no favours with these acting performances as the match officals are'nt complete and utter idiots and can see through this.

Sqaull20

PHB wrote: »

Shh, Ronaldo's ****, every other player is better than him! The English media overrate players, hence Ronaldo must be secretly ****. What do you mean he's scored 30 goals this year and it's only March. Must be a mistake! He's only one one league?

I love when people list players better than him:
It's not that I don't disagree there are some, but let's look at it

By the age of 23, the following players had won:

Zidane - Nothing
Seedorf - 2 CL's, La Liga, 2 Dutch titles
Maldini - Serie A, 2 CLs
Del Piero - 2 Serie As, 1 CL
Shevchenko - Ukranian League 5 Times
Trezeguet - World Cup, EC
Raul - La Liga twice and a CL
Henry - World Cup, EC
Ronaldinho - Brazilian League, Intertoto Cup
Robinho - La Liga
Kaka' - Serie A
Messi - Still only 20, has won the League and the CL [although played no part in the latter campaign due to injury]

Have a look at that list. Trophies don't mean everything by the age of 23 Why? Because Messi has a CL medal, but played no real part in it. People win medals as part of a medal winning squad, that's why Traore has a CL medal before the age of 23.

He's 23 and has already won the premiership, dragging the team along the way, being the best player in one of the top 3 leagues in the world.

He is the first United player to score 30 goals in a season since George Best. That record has stood for 40 years. United have had some pretty impressive players since then.

Age has nothing to do with it...

Who's to say Ronaldo will get better?

For all we know he could have peaked..

Now he's grown to his physical peak, hunger and aggression and pace will decline, age and injury will take their toll, and like other footballers he'll increasing have to rely on guile, experience and brains........Oh dear

mayordenis

when the portugese ronaldo bangs in goals against top opposition for the about 3/4 seasons consistently, then he can be bandied about, right now he doesnt compare to kaka or messi anyway when messi was 17 he was giving chelseas deffence the runaround singlehandedly.

Xavi6

mayordenis wrote: »

when the portugese ronaldo bangs in goals against top opposition for the about 3/4 seasons consistently, then he can be bandied about, right now he doesnt compare to kaka or messi anyway when messi was 17 he was giving chelseas deffence the runaround singlehandedly.

Well congratulations, you've really gone and angered them now.

Here's to another car crash, repetitive thread.

Necronomicon

Ronaldo forum ftw.

Xavi6

Recycle bin ftw

Nailz

Xavi6 wrote: »

Recycle bin ftw

What? Aussie Rules Football??? Yeah I know...

Xavi6

Nailz wrote: »

What? Aussie Rules Football??? Yeah I know...

I fail to see the joke. Can you explain?

I was referring to this -

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=52

Nailz

I'm no fan of stating the obvious...

Mr. Presentable

PHB wrote: »

He is the first United player to score 30 goals in a season since George Best. That record has stood for 40 years. United have had some pretty impressive players since then.

Firstly, this is a pathetic excuse of a thread, with only a bitter agenda.

But, PHB, I think even you will agree your statement above is peurile. The current state of English football is shocking when compared with the last 40 years. The sheer lack of class outside of the top four means the leading pack are playing against fodder week in/out so figures are not comparible with the 1970's 1980's and even 1990's.

We can all see the class in Europe of the top four in England, but where are the rest of them in the Uefa Cup, for example. If the EPL is of such a high standard then surely they wouild also ber dominating in the lesser competition too.

C. Ronaldo is profiting from a dearth of decent opposition. Not his fault, you can only play what is put before you. What are his stats against the other top EPL sides, or the top sides in Europe and Internationally?

kryogen

nipplenuts wrote: »

Firstly, this is a pathetic excuse of a thread, with only a bitter agenda.

But, PHB, I think even you will agree your statement above is peurile. The current state of English football is shocking when compared with the last 40 years. The sheer lack of class outside of the top four means the leading pack are playing against fodder week in/out so figures are not comparible with the 1970's 1980's and even 1990's.

We can all see the class in Europe of the top four in England, but where are the rest of them in the Uefa Cup, for example. If the EPL is of such a high standard then sureley they wouild also ber dominating in the lesser competition too.

C. Ronaldo is profiting from a dearth of decent opposition. Not his fault, you can only play what is put before you. What are his stats against the other top EPL sides, or the top sides in Europe and Internationally?

joking right?

Dave!

ironingbored wrote: »

The other Ronaldo has won nothing apart from the Premiership. Just like Rooney it's all hype and when it's men against boys they cannot hack it. I will eat my words when he dominates a CL final or scores against teams other than Sunderland, Derby and the like.

Lyon, Arsenal (+ assist)

Thread can be locked now.

Mr. Presentable

kryogen wrote: »

joking right?

How do you mean? I enquired what his stats are, and that's your reply? Don't you know? Or more likely, you know but won't share.

hamnegg

DaveMcG wrote: »

Lyon, Arsenal (+ assist)

Thread can be locked now.

I wouldn't call Lyon world beaters. United didn't even play well against Lyon anyway. On that performance they don't look like CL winners elect.

Mr. Presentable

DaveMcG wrote: »

Lyon, Arsenal (+ assist)

Your post doesn't mean anything.

DaveMcG wrote: »

Thread can be locked now.

Are you a mod here?

hamnegg

Its Ronaldo's perfornances against top quality opposition. Its as if he goes missing, maybe afraid of the big game?? Pressure off he's brilliant. What game against top class opposition has he dominated? Had a Keane Vs. Juventus/Gerrard Vs. Milan/Gerrard Vs. *******kos/Fabregas Vs. Milan moment??

Any1???

Unearthly

hamnegg wrote: »

Its Ronaldo's perfornances against top quality opposition. Its as if he goes missing, maybe afraid of the big game?? Pressure off he's brilliant. What game against top class opposition has he dominated? Had a Keane Vs. Juventus/Gerrard Vs. Milan/Gerrard Vs. *******kos/Fabregas Vs. Milan moment??

Any1???

I can't think of one but there is a fundamental flaw in your post there.

Keane, Fabregas and Gerrard play in positions that allow them to dominate games.

Nailz

Gerrard Vs. Milan?? Don't you mean Hamann?

Xavi6

Unearthly wrote: »

I can't think of one but there is a fundamental flaw in your post there.

Keane, Fabregas and Gerrard play in positions that allow them to dominate games.

Clutchin at straws a bit there. Last time I checked all attacking players could dominate a game. The likes of Figo have dominated big games from a wide position. Ronny hasn't (yet of course).