Wrestlemania relying on celebs rather then Wrestlers ?

I remember when wrestlemania was about the match .It wasnt that long ago. I also know the at the moment the talent in WWE is probably at its lowest in the term's of wrestling and promo cutting.

Due to all this, i cant get into wrestlemania at all. I have trouble even calling it "Wrestle"Mania. More celeb"mania" , "Gimmick"Mania . If i want to see Mayweather i will watch him in Boxing. If i want to see Fiddy Cent i will go to his concert.
I want to watch wrestling, it wont be at Wrestlemania . We all know Vince wants out of wrestling to Make movies . All the kids seem to be buying into it.

Sad really .

EdK

I look at it the other way I paid to go to Wrestlemania I get to see some pretty good matches and I get to see Snoop and Mayweather as part of that
Try getting a ticket for a Floyd Mayweather fight and the cost of it

This way the WWE get mainstream attention and we get some cool photo ops hehe

Cactus Col

But wrestlemania has a tradition of featuring celebrities.

The first wrestlemania featured Cyndi Lauper in Wendi Richter's corner , Mr T fighting in the main event, with Muhammad Ali as guest referee, and Liberace dancing with the Rocketts. (can't remember why he was there .... guest time keeper?)

In fact here's a list of all the celebs that have appeared at wrestlemania over the years:

(from http://prowrestling.about.com/od/wrestlemania/a/wmcelebrities.htm)

Actors
Burt Reynolds (WM 10) – ring announcer
Cathy Lee Crosby (WM 2) – commentary in Chicago
Elvira (WM 2) – commentary in L.A.
Jennie Garth (WM 10) - guest time keeper
Jenny McCarthy (WM 11) - in the corner of Diesel
Joan Rivers (WM 2) – ring announcer in NY
Jonathan Taylor Thomas (WM 11) – guest time keeper
Marla Maples (WM 7) – guest time keeper
Mr. T (WM 1 &2) - wrestler
Nicholas Turturo (WM 11) – interviewer & ring announcer
Pamela Anderson (WM 11) – in the corner of Diesel
Regis Philbin (WM 7) - interviewer
Ricky Schroeder (WM 2) – time keeper in L.A.
Rhonda Shear (WM 10) – guest time keeper
Robert Conrad (WM 2) – guest referee
Steve Allen (WM 6) - interviewer
Susan St. James (WM 2) – commentary in N.Y.

Athletes
Bill Fralic (WM 2) – wrestler
Billy Martin (WM 1) – ring announcer
Bob Uecker (WM 3 & 4) – interviewer
Butterbean (WM 15) - wrestler
Carl Banks (WM 11) – in the corner of LT
Chris Spielman (WM 11) – in the corner of LT
Darryl Dawkins (WM 2) – judge for boxing match
Dick Butkus (WM 2) – guest official
Ed “Too Tall” Jones (WM 2) – guest official
Ernie Holmes (WM 2) - wrestler
Harvey Martin (WM 2) - wrestler
Jim Covert (WM 2) - wrestler
Joe Frazier (WM 2) – corner man for Mr. T
Ken Norton, Jr. (WM 11) – in the corner of LT
Lawrence Taylor (WM 11) - wrestled
Lou Duva (WM 2) – corner man for Roddy Piper
Mike Tyson (WM 14) – ring side enforcer
Muhammad Ali (WM 1) – guest official
Paul Maguire (WM 7) – instant replay skit
Pete Rose (WM 14,15,16,20) – announcer then part of ongoing skit with Kane and finally Hall of Fame ceremony
Reggie White (WM 11) – in the corner of LT
Rickey Jackson (WM 11) – in the corner of LT
Russ Francis (WM 2) - wrestler
Steve McMichael (WM 11) – in the corner of LT
Tommy Lasorda (WM 2) ring announcer in L.A.
Vinny Pazienza (WM 15) – referee of Butterbean fight
William Perry (WM 2 & 22) - wrestler then Hall of Fame ceremony

Musicians
Alice Cooper (WM 3) – in the corner of Jake Roberts
Aretha Franklin (WM 3 & 23) – sang America the Beautiful
Ashanti (WM 19) sang America the Beautiful
Boyz II Men (WM 15) – sang America the Beautiful
Cab Calloway (WM 2) – judge for boxing match
Cyndi Lauper (WM 1) – managed Wendi Richter
Donnie Wahlburg (WM 10) – ring announcer
Drowning Pool (WM 18) – performed Tear Away
Gladys Knight (WM 4) – sang America the Beautiful
Ice-T (WM 16) – performed Pimpin’ Ain’t Easy for The Godfather & D-Lo Brown
Liberace (WM 1) – guest time keeper
Limp Bizkit (WM 19) – performed Rollin’ for The Undertaker and Crack Addict
Little Richard (WM 10) – sang America the Beautiful
Michelle Williams (WM 22) - sang America the Beautiful
Motorhead (WM 17 & 18) – performed The Game and Evolution for Triple H
Ozzy Osbourne (WM 2) – in the corner of The British Bulldogs
P.O.D. (WM 22) - performed Booyaka 619 for Rey Mysterio
Ray Charles (WM 2) – sang America the Beautiful
Reba McEntire (WM 8) – sang America the Beautiful
Robert Goulet (WM 6) – sang O Canada
Run-DMC (WM 5) – performed The WrestleMania Rap
Saliva (WM 18) - performed Always
Salt-N-Peppa (WM 11) – performed What a Man for Lawrence Taylor
Willie Nelson (WM 7) – sang God Bless America

Other Celebrities
Alex Trebek (WM 7) – ring announcer
Chet Coppock (WM 2) - ring announcer
Clare Peller(WM 2) – guest time keeper in Chicago
Cy Sperling (WM 10) – gave a hairpiece to Howard Finkel
Donald Trump (WM 4,5,7,20, & 23) – hosted WM 4 & 5 and was in the crowd at the first 4 events. At WM 23, his hair was on the line against the hair of Vince McMahon
G. Gordon Liddy (WM 2) – judge for boxing match
Gennifer Flowers (WM 14) – interviewer & ring announcer
George Steinbrenner (WM 7) – instant replay skit
Herb (WM 2) – guest time keeper in N.Y.
Larry Young (WM 11) – guest referee
Mary Hart (WM 3) – interviewer
Miller Lite Catfight Girls (WM 19) – another less filling & taste great battle
Morton Downey, Jr. (WM 5) – guest on Piper’s Pit
Ray Combs (WM 8) – ring announcer
Robin Leach (WM 4) – presented the World Title
Rona Barrett (WM 6) - interviewer
Tara Conner (WM 23) - escorted Donald Trump to the ring
The Rockettes (WM 1) – escorted Liberace to the ring
Vanna White (WM 4) – guest time keeper

krudler

exactly,wrestlemania has always been about spectacle and matches, the celebs add mainstream attention to it and thus generate more interest and business,thats why its the biggest wrestling show in the world every year,even people who have zero knowledge of wrestling know what Wrestlemania is, hell even my dad wants to watch the mayweather/show fight after he saw a clip of what happened at no way out on sky news

Well thats it exactly, your dad wants to watch the Mayweather / Show fight.

Last year it was Trump and vince.

But were is the big match ? the big main event. Hogan V Andre , Hogan V Warrior , Rock V Austin. This is what made Wrestlemania. Celebs back then were the side course. Now they seem to be the main meal.

R.Rated

I would say John Cena v Triple H v Randy Orton, Edge v The Undertaker, MITB, Shawn Michaels v Ric Flair are all big enough matches. No?

Cactus Col

well ... the big match for me is definetly Undertaker Edge. The smackdown main event.

Triple H Cena Orton will probably be a good match, but I'm really excited to see if Edge can break Taker's streak.

Whoever walks out with the WWE title, cena trips or orton, well, it'll be just the same old same old.

gimmick

Money In The Bank is not a big match. Its a shuffled together clusterf**k in order to get more names on the card. Its an example of how lazy the writers are that they cannot think of proper undercard feuds.

apparrently MVP beat Jamie Noble at a house show this weekend to get his spot in MITB, so neither the US or IC titles are being defended. I actually thought they might go ahead with the Matt Hardy MVP storyline (though is Hardy still injured?). So yet another person who could have been used wisely in a properly built WM feud is just going to be forgotten in the shuffle of a 20 minute spot fest.

As for the theme of the thread, i don't see the problem WWE is running in a huge arena, and needs names. Celeb involvement is nothing new, its just more noticeable now.

R.Rated

The only people who dont like MITB are a small percentage of wrestling fans (geeks) who over analyse everything.

Good point point about UT winning streak. It is the only thing WM has going for it. MITB match, well im not too pushed about that .

gimmick

R.Rated wrote: »

The only people who dont like MITB are a small percentage of wrestling fans (geeks) who over analyse everything.

Wrong day. Yes, thats right. By your logic, the only people who like it are retards who love spot fests! MITB makes no sense anymore. And that isn't over analysis, its a fact that there is not enough build for decent singles feuds like the IC and US. If thats over analysis, then your brain must be tiny. Child.

gimmick

gimmick wrote: »

Wrong day. Yes, thats right. By your logic, the only people who like it are retards who love spot fests! MITB makes no sense anymore. And that isn't over analysis, its a fact that there is not enough build for decent singles feuds like the IC and US. If thats over analysis, then your brain must be tiny. Child.

I like it!:D

rossie1977

Deleted User wrote: »

I remember when wrestlemania was about the match .It wasnt that long ago. I also know the at the moment the talent in WWE is probably at its lowest in the term's of wrestling and promo cutting.

Due to all this, i cant get into wrestlemania at all. I have trouble even calling it "Wrestle"Mania. More celeb"mania" , "Gimmick"Mania . If i want to see Mayweather i will watch him in Boxing. If i want to see Fiddy Cent i will go to his concert.
I want to watch wrestling, it wont be at Wrestlemania . We all know Vince wants out of wrestling to Make movies . All the kids seem to be buying into it.

Sad really .

when mania started it was all about spectacle rather than wrestling. most of the wrestlers were there for their big pay day and nothing else. You could count the number of great matches from WM1-9 on one hand and yet each of those manias drew huge numbers

in the last 8-9 years the quality of matches at mania have improved greatly starting with WM10, 13 (austin/hart) and then moving on to WM17 forward. I think vince wants to bring back some of the old razzmatazz to the event (which despite the match quality was sadly lacking at Mania 22 for me). If the superbowl can have a ton of celebs so can mania and if it brings in a few extra buys i sure vince will be smiling.

i have no problem with MITB, its really a match designed for the live audience rather than the TV viewer. Mania should be unique (in recent years it has become something like a 4 hour version of other PPVs) and MITB has been exclusively played out at mania so it works for me.

there are only so many matches you can have at mania which means without MITB people like shelton, carlito even kennedy wouldn't make the final card, 13 or 14 matches at mania would be overkill for me

Fozzy

Less of the insults please

Fozzy

Last year was WWE's most successful year ever. Last year's Wrestlemania was their most successful event ever. A large part of that was to do with them having a big celebrity as part of their biggest feud. It worked, so why not try to outdo it this year? It looks like smart business to me

Deleted User wrote: »

We all know Vince wants out of wrestling to Make movies

News to me. You really think Vince is going to leave the wrestling business before he dies?

kyp_durron

gimmick wrote: »

Wrong day. Yes, thats right. By your logic, the only people who like it are retards who love spot fests! MITB makes no sense anymore. And that isn't over analysis, its a fact that there is not enough build for decent singles feuds like the IC and US. If thats over analysis, then your brain must be tiny. Child.

I like spot fests. You're a towel.

MikeHoncho

R.Rated is my new favourite poster. He is the internet wrestling fan that hates internet wrestling fans. We have'nt had a good heel poster here since VR ran away.:D

R.Rated

gimmick wrote: »

Wrong day. Yes, thats right. By your logic, the only people who like it are retards who love spot fests! MITB makes no sense anymore. And that isn't over analysis, its a fact that there is not enough build for decent singles feuds like the IC and US. If thats over analysis, then your brain must be tiny. Child.

LMFAO:D your so funny. What im saying is the casual fan, the fan(who only buys one PPV a year) and 15 year old teenagers would love an 8 man MITB match. They dont think for one second "God i would love to see a wrestling match between Matt Hardy v MVP, they are wasted in this match" only wrestling nerds do, which are a very small percent of fans and in my opinion annoying a fcuk with their stupid chants, "This is awesome" and the like.

Fozzy

Fozzy wrote: »

Last year was WWE's most successful year ever. Last year's Wrestlemania was their most successful event ever. A large part of that was to do with them having a big celebrity as part of their biggest feud. It worked, so why not try to outdo it this year? It looks like smart business to me



News to me. You really think Vince is going to leave the wrestling business before he dies?

Come on that cant be news to you. He was famous for saying "if there was only a way to remove the ring from wrestling" He later said he never said that. I think he also said it on Beyond the mat . Must check back. But he has said it on a few other interviews.

Vince135792003

Deleted User wrote: »

Come on that cant be news to you. He was famous for saying "if there was only a way to remove the ring from wrestling".

I don't ever remember him saying that in anything.

I think Vince is somewhat conflicted. Wrestling was never enough for him in that he's tried other things like the XFL, films and the body building league. Deep down though it's what he knows.

I think he wants/wanted to be remembered for being more than just a wrastlin promoter (I think he wants to be remembered as a great promoter full stop) but if he is to remembered for just wrestling, I think he wants to shape the image of wrestling to get the most acceptance possible from the mainstream. Or I'm just talking bull.

R.Rated

Your bang on

Double C

Gimmick's right though. Money in the Bank was a great match the first few years but last years match was awful, there were too many people in it and it was a mess. MVP vs Hardy would be a great singles match and the MitB would be grand with 6 men. Theres nothing nerdy or, dare I say it, smarky about wanting to see decent matches!

R.Rated

Matt Hardy v MVP would add zero buyrates

rossie1977

i'm mega pissed that mvp is now in the MITB and if they put matt hardy in there too the writers should be shot :mad:

6 people in the MITB is plenty and jeff hardy should probably be in some other match given the fact he is already a champ of sorts. If matt is not fit enough for mania why not jeff and mvp???

as for vince and wrestling; vince is a businessman, he turned something which most americans view as a joke (and still do i suppose) into a money making machine. Vince believes that by diversifying into other businesses the WWE will become more profitable (nothing wrong with keeping the shareholders happy), so far he has struggled to get best fit but he will continue to enter new markets i feel until he gets it right.

Double C

Who gives a **** about buyrates?? Do you work for WWE?

R.Rated

Im more interested in the business and looking at the overall picture rather than the "wrestling" i know what the mainstream audiance want and its not MVP v Matt Hardy

Double C

Its a wrestling company, I think wrestling is the overall picture.

R.Rated

The mainstream audiance dont want wrestling as the overall picture. WWE is NOT a wrestling company its a sports entertainment company

Double C

Double C wrote: »

Its a wrestling company, I think wrestling is the overall picture.

Its a "Wrestling" Company, I think money is the overall picture.

R.Rated

Am i wrong in saying that i would rather look at Maria v Melina than Samoa Joe v Kurt Angle?

Fozzy

At this stage I don't think Matt vs MVP would do much but if they had built it up again after the Rumble or even No Way Out then it would mean something. People were really into their feud last year and if Matt hadn't got sick then I think many people would have wanted to see the payoff to their feud at Wrestlemania

Fozzy

R.Rated wrote: »

Am i wrong in saying that i would rather look at Maria v Melina than Samoa Joe v Kurt Angle?

No, unless you're watching for the wrestling

R.Rated

Fozzy wrote: »

No, unless you're watching for the wrestling

I dont watch sports entertainment for the wrestling

Double C

Then watch Desperate Housewives.
and wrestling is about the money, for Vince.

Firewalkwithme

R.Rated wrote: »

I dont watch sports entertainment for the wrestling

Well then you are not wrong. Could you not work that out for yourself or was that crude attempt at making some kind of point?

Vince135792003

rossie1977 wrote: »

as for vince and wrestling; vince is a businessman, he turned something which most americans view as a joke (and still do i suppose) into a money making machine. Vince believes that by diversifying into other businesses the WWE will become more profitable (nothing wrong with keeping the shareholders happy), so far he has struggled to get best fit but he will continue to enter new markets i feel until he gets it right.

I'm stealing this point but Meltzer had an interesting comment on a Figure Four show. He basically said that obviously he's making HUGE amounts of money but from an overall perspective in America, wrestling has much less of a foothold and an interest level than it did have 25 plus years ago.

Also he didn't go into the XFL as a way to diversify and make WWE more profitable. That was his one defining moment to jump out of the wrestling bubble and he failed.

Vince135792003

R.Rated wrote: »

Am i wrong in saying that i would rather look at Maria v Melina

You can watch it on Heat this week. www.wwe.com

rossie1977

i read a piece by someone (can't remember who; some wrestler or promoter) about a year ago talking about the phrase "sports entertainment"

in it he asked if you ever heard any fans who said, "did you watch the sports entertainment on the telly last night"; "did you buy tickets for the sports entertainment show", "who is your favourite sports entertainer" etc. The answer of course is no because nobody uses the phrase sports entertainment to refer to pro-wrestling except a few inside titan towers.

sports entertainment covers a massive amount of things

NCIRL

Vince135792003 wrote: »

You can watch it on Heat this week. www.wwe.com

Cheers il check it out now

Machismo Fan

R.Rated wrote: »

Am i wrong in saying that i would rather look at Maria v Melina than Samoa Joe v Kurt Angle?

I have never, EVER heard something so stupid in my life. He deserved to be banned for that comment alone.

gimmick

Sports Entertainment covers stuff like Gladiators, That Rollerblading thing which may or may not exist anymore, pro wrestling etc. To say it is only pro wrestling is completely wrong.

Vince135792003 wrote:

Also he didn't go into the XFL as a way to diversify and make WWE more profitable. That was his one defining moment to jump out of the wrestling bubble and he failed.

Was he hoping to get out of the wrestling business when he started up this? How long did this take to fail? Immediate or what?

Vince135792003

gimmick wrote: »

Was he hoping to get out of the wrestling business when he started up this? How long did this take to fail? Immediate or what?

No I don't think he was trying to get out of wrestling when it started in 2001. It was his chance though to truly "make it" it in the mainstream if it had come off. Vince and NBC pumped alot of money in it.

It was a huge failure. Words can't describe it. The first week did really well and the ratings plumeted to the worst prime time figures in NBC history. The football just wasn't good enough. It didn't stand up to the NFL and the gimmicks they tried (like Jesse Ventura feuding with a coach, cameras in the dressing room and other rule changes) just didn't work.

It was actually around this time when WWE started to slide. Vince just had too many things to handle at the one time and alot of his key people were completely burned out like JR who had 3 jobs around this time (commentator of Raw, commentator of the XFL and head of talent relations).

krudler

there were a lot of things the NFL stole from the XFL though, the roaming camera over the field being the main one, it makes some of the plays look great

Vince135792003

krudler wrote: »

there were a lot of things the NFL stole from the XFL though, the roaming camera over the field being the main one, it makes some of the plays look great

They didn't take Stephanie in a waiting helicopter for a player whose wife was expecting a baby during a live game. Just one example of a silly XFL gimmick.

flahavaj

R.Rated wrote: »

Am i wrong in saying that i would rather look at Maria v Melina than Samoa Joe v Kurt Angle?

You are if you're saying you'd look at a chubby Samoan in the same way you'd look at two good looking birds........:eek:

Mikel Jr.

id rather have mayweather at wm than john cena so no complaints from me

Gerard.C

Mikel Jr. wrote: »

id rather have mayweather at wm than john cena so no complaints from me

Not a fan of good wrestling matches then, no?

nacho libre

Gerard.C wrote: »

Not a fan of good wrestling matches then, no?

With that in mind i hope Ric Flair and Shawn Michaels steal the show.

Cactus Col

http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/columns/70778/Shining-a-Spotlight-3.13.08:-Celebs-and-Wrestling.htm

An article / opinion piece there on celebrities in pro wrestling.