Harney sent shotgun cartridges

pfkf1 · 10-03-2008 2:17pm #1

just heard on RTE that she and some clinics around the country have been sent them, is it now time for her to go firstly for incompetence in running the health service, but now for her own personal safety?

I believe so, there may be nut cases out there ready to have a go at her, she should now go for her own safety.

mike65 · 10-03-2008 2:47pm

Ah right public servant get threatened and flees - what kind of precident does that set? Anyway whoever is sending threats to fertility clinics is obviously a religious nut-job and should not be indulged.

Mike.

stakey · 10-03-2008 3:07pm

Religious nuts! Dragged up a back street and shot with their own cartridges is all they deserve.

meriwether · 10-03-2008 3:08pm

She received something in the mail?
Im surprised she was told about it.

It wasn't me! · 10-03-2008 3:33pm

Very odd. Very stupid, but very odd.

flogen · 10-03-2008 3:51pm

I'm wondering exactly what brand of religious nut it takes to target a fertility clinic... is it because they're encouraging "un-natural" birth?

I also wonder how much more credence these letters would be given over your average, run-of-the-mill threat that any Gov. minister would receive on a weekly basis.

I mean, putting a shotgun cartridge into a letter doesn't really say anything other than "I have the small amount of money required to obtain a shotgun cartridge"... it certainly wouldn't imply any greater degree of intent as far as I can see.

The_Minister · 10-03-2008 3:56pm

Flogen, sending someone a shotgun cartridge clearly implies a threat. Why else send it?

Also, hasn't Harney spoken out in the Dail as being pro-choice before? (think so anyway)
That would make her a target.

Tricity Bendix · 10-03-2008 4:03pm

flogen wrote: »

I'm wondering exactly what brand of religious nut it takes to target a fertility clinic... is it because they're encouraging "un-natural" birth?

IVF treatment centres will usually destroy any unwanted embryos. If you believe an embryo is a human, its akin to mass-murder.

I mean, putting a shotgun cartridge into a letter doesn't really say anything other than "I have the small amount of money required to obtain a shotgun cartridge"... it certainly wouldn't imply any greater degree of intent as far as I can see.

I don't think you'd be saying the same thing if someone did it to you.

I think Mary Harney can take pride in being in the sights (so to speak) of these nutjobs.

lostexpectation · 10-03-2008 4:22pm

there were some threats sent a couple of weeks back to clinics too weren't there,

what is it that these clinics are doing, i didn't think our clinics were going that far, even with the lack of regulation.

are they protesting IVF or what?

nacho libre · 10-03-2008 4:24pm

[QUOTE=flogen;55354357

I mean, putting a shotgun cartridge into a letter doesn't really say anything other than "I have the small amount of money required to obtain a shotgun cartridge"... it certainly wouldn't imply any greater degree of intent as far as I can see.[/QUOTE]

that's ridiculous reasoning. how is the person it is sent to, to be sure of that. i certainly would not be giving the sender the benefit of the doubt if i was sent such an item.

delop · 10-03-2008 4:26pm

I hope she didnt eat them :rolleyes:

Tricity Bendix · 10-03-2008 4:32pm

delop wrote: »

I hope she didnt eat them :rolleyes:

Yes, Harney is fat. We get it. Child.

ballooba · 10-03-2008 4:35pm

pfkf1 wrote: »

just heard on RTE that she and some clinics around the country have been sent them, is it now time for her to go firstly for incompetence in running the health service, but now for her own personal safety?

I believe so, there may be nut cases out there ready to have a go at her, she should now go for her own safety.

Never. That would be completely irresponsible in my opinion. Terrorists have caused enough suffering in this country.

Jumpy · 10-03-2008 4:39pm

delop wrote: »

I hope she didnt eat them :rolleyes:

It wouldnt hurt you anyway, maybe a case of explosive diarrhea.

Anyway, who in their right mind would advocate possible murder to make a point about what they consider a waste of human life?

It baffles me to think there are loonies out there like that.

lostexpectation · 10-03-2008 4:40pm

there's no embyronic stem cell research being done in this country?

Tricity Bendix · 10-03-2008 4:44pm

lostexpectation wrote: »

there's no embyronic stem cell research being done in this country?

That's what I thought. Maybe the guy/gal just assumed that there was? I mean, we're hardly talking about someone who lets a little thing like reality interrupt their thought process.

flogen · 10-03-2008 4:53pm

b.ie polar wrote: »

IVF treatment centres will usually destroy any unwanted embryos. If you believe an embryo is a human, its akin to mass-murder.

Ah - was thinking that might be the case alright... although there is a court case still to be decided about the status of the embryo and I think IVF clinics are in limbo in that regard as a result... wasn't sure if they were actually destroying embryos at the moment

The_Minister wrote: »

Flogen, sending someone a shotgun cartridge clearly implies a threat. Why else send it?

b.ie polar wrote: »

I don't think you'd be saying the same thing if someone did it to you.

nacho libre wrote: »

that's ridiculous reasoning. how is the person it is sent to, to be sure of that. i certainly would not be giving the sender the benefit of the doubt if i was sent such an item.

I'll put all these together because they make the same point!

Basically the way I see it, a letter saying "I'm going to kill you" is no different to a letter saying "I'm going to kill you" with a bullet enclosed.

Shotgun cartridges are relatively easy to get your hands on and doesn't signify any particular skill or capability - it doesn't even ensure that the person making the threat has a gun.

It'd be a different story if they sent a potentially viable explosive device or a dangerous chemical that is difficult to concoct or obtain.

@The Minister - sending a shotgun cartridge clearly implies a threat, sure. So does a letter with a threat written on it. I'm wondering if the former is given more credence than the latter and if so, why?

ballooba · 10-03-2008 4:59pm

flogen wrote: »

@The Minister - sending a shotgun cartridge clearly implies a threat, sure. So does a letter with a threat written on it. I'm wondering if the former is given more credence than the latter and if so, why?

They are equivalent. You don't usually get both. They are of equal concern.

flogen · 10-03-2008 5:02pm

ballooba wrote: »

They are equivalent. You don't usually get both. They are of equal concern.

This may sound slightly sarcastic but it's not supposed to - is that official Gardaí policy on the matter?

OpenYourEyes · 10-03-2008 5:22pm

when i first read the title of this thread, i thought it was implying that Harney sent out shotgun cartridges to other people!:rolleyes:

i gotta start watching the news!

lostexpectation · 10-03-2008 5:26pm

http://www.irishmedicalnews.ie/articles.asp?Category=news&ArticleID=15963

ccording to Dr David Walsh, SIMS International Fertility Clinic, the Clinic “would support IVF surrogacy” in the case of cancer or Caesarean hysterectomy, since “special circumstances deserve special treatment”.

this is what the private one does
The Unit has been certified to carry out all aspects of fertility treatment from ovulation induction to the more sophisticated techniques of IVF, ICSI and Blastocyst transfer. The Unit is now doing 750 cycles per year.

is surrogacy the prob

The SIMS International Fertility Clinic in Dublin, Clane Assisted Conception Unit in Co Kildare, and Dr Mary Wingfield, who practises in Dublin, have all told IMN they have seen patients who would benefit from surrogacy.

shouldn't be

http://www.clanehospital.ie/treatments.htm

She described the letter, which is believed to have referred to IVF treatment as a 'crime against humanity', as threatening and very upsetting for staff.

ballooba · 10-03-2008 5:35pm

flogen wrote: »

This may sound slightly sarcastic but it's not supposed to - is that official Gardaí policy on the matter?

I would think any judge or police department in any culture would see it that way.

flogen · 10-03-2008 5:39pm

ballooba wrote: »

I would think any judge or police department in any culture would see it that way.

No, I'm not talking about how it is treated in a court of law, I'm talking about how much weight it would be given by Gardaí/investigators and whether they'd pay more attention to a threat with a bullet/shotgun shell than one without.

ballooba · 10-03-2008 5:47pm

flogen wrote: »

No, I'm not talking about how it is treated in a court of law, I'm talking about how much weight it would be given by Gardaí/investigators and whether they'd pay more attention to a threat with a bullet/shotgun shell than one without.

I'm actually saying that they would receive equal attention. I think we got our wires corssed there.

Bertie Ahern received deaththreats too last year?

partholon · 10-03-2008 5:51pm

bertie was on radio earlier saying another minister got one as well.

micheal martin.

thats the two main architects of the HSE. who ever it is seems to be doing it for their work on the health seervice.

The_Minister · 10-03-2008 6:06pm

I just thought of something.
There was an article in the Irish Times, for International Womans Day, and IIRC it had the number of abortions the HSE has arranged over the last year in it.
Maybe that sparked this?

The_Minister · 11-03-2008 12:11am

Harney is on Q&A now, she might be asked about it.

Glenbhoy · 12-03-2008 11:25am

flogen wrote: »

Ah - was thinking that might be the case alright... although there is a court case still to be decided about the status of the embryo and I think IVF clinics are in limbo in that regard as a result... wasn't sure if they were actually destroying embryos at the moment

Clinics do not destroy unwanted embryos, clearly however the idiots who sent these cartridges etc are unaware of what exactly goes on in these clinics. Irish clinic take a very passive approach to the whole process (insofar as it's possible to take a passive approach in this area), they do not test embryos in any way prior to transfer back to the mother, unused but surviving embryos are frozen and stored in perpetuity, the likelihood is that these will never be viable, however they're not destroyed, and can in fact be offered to infertile couples (if consents have been obtained from the natural parents). Now if the Irish Citizens Defence Force (or whatever they're called) were to bomb the clinic, they'd probably take care of the problem of what should be done with these embryos.

Tea drinker · 12-03-2008 1:16pm

Don't really have a problem with the ministers receiving them, there's any amount of justifiable pissed off punters out there, but I don't understand the fertility clinics, but perhaps the other posters are right regarding Embryo storage. Still inexcusable as these (expensive) clinics offer a lot to help couples trying to have kids.

PaintingMedium · 12-03-2008 7:05pm

It sounds like something those nuts at youth defence would do.

jmayo · 12-03-2008 7:32pm

partholon wrote: »

bertie was on radio earlier saying another minister got one as well.

micheal martin.

thats the two main architects of the HSE. who ever it is seems to be doing it for their work on the health seervice.

Work and HSE.
Two words that are poles apart :rolleyes:

Of course this will prompt the call for new bullet proof limos for all our great politicos.

Harney sent shotgun cartridges

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