60KMPH on the M50, what's the point?

quarryman

I use the M50 between Liffey valley and Stillorgan every day.

At this stage, a lot of it is designated 60kmph.

I adhere to it. Its a speed limit.

However I've started to take account of the number of drivers that don't. I will maintain 60kmph on the slow/driving lane. Of the number that do the same at least 5 times that figure are speeding past me at 80-90.

So, for every 10 those of you reading this; 7 to 8 speed on this section - consider this before you reply.

Now, usually, it makes no difference to me if someone else exceeds the limit. But in the case of the M50 the road is in such a condition that it is dangerous to have one lane of cars doing 60k and very close by (with no hard shoulder or grass verge) another lane of cars doing up to 100k.

3 weeks ago I was flashed by a van exiting at Ballymount as I had kept in the outside lane doing 60 while other cars sped past at 90. He wished to exit and had to wait until I continued on past the exit.

I've started to feel that I am risk due to being in the minority obeying the speed limit. Cars will enter merge onto the M50 and immediately accelerate up to the first car travelling at 60 on the slow/driving lane. I've noticed cars jam on once or twice suddenly suprised that the car in front of them is travelling a lot less than the 90k they are.

Things seem to be a lot worse at night. An open road and drivers put the foot down. This, despite the fact that they are within a few feet of workers moving cones or upgrading under flood lights.

The best example was last week. I entered the motorway at Liffey Valley closely followed by a white van. He immediately accelerated and overtook me. Only then did I spot the label on the back: "Motorway Maintenance"!

I should point out, I was one of them. Last year I received a ticket for exceeding 60kmph. This was before the road works had been started fully on an open road early in the morning. I'm not complaining! I accept the fine!

My issue is with those of you acting so dangerously every day on the city's biggest roadwork site.

Why?

/rant over

Cionád

I presume you mean you were driving in the inside lane, and not the outside lane (overtaking lane)?

quarryman

Outside lane.

Furthest from the median.

agent_smith

Well whether other people are speeding or not in the outside lane... you should not be there. You shoudl be using the inside lane. The outside land is only for overtaking.
With regard to your other points, I can understand why people speed up. 60kph is rediculous. People get frustrated. There are parts of the m50 with hard shoulder , no workers and perfect stretches of road that are also marked 60 before corneslcort.

coolbeans

agent_smith wrote: »

Well whether other people are speeding or not in the outside lane... you should not be there. You shoudl be using the inside lane. The outside land is only for overtaking.
With regard to your other points, I can understand why people speed up. 60kph is rediculous. People get frustrated. There are parts of the m50 with hard shoulder , no workers and perfect stretches of road that are also marked 60 before corneslcort.

+1.

Omcd

quarryman, I'll second everything you've said, but applied nationally roadworks or not. I was about to post a similiar rant myself after my experiences travelling up the N3 on Saturday. I make a point of sticking to the speed limits, or very close to, as its the law. However in doing so on Saturday I ended up feeling like a dangerous mobile obstruction, as streams of cars were constantly flying up behind and whizzing past or crawling all over the back bumper until they had the chance to pass. Not one or two cars - but almost everyone - 100k's + seems to be norm in the 60's. I too was wondering, exactly what is the point of speedlimits if 95 % of drivers feel they can habitually completely ignore them ???????????????????????????????????

btw - furthest from median is generally reffered to as the inside lane.

To clarify I know the 60k roadwords limit on N3 is advisory in places, but I'm referring above to other 60's along the N3 that are not advisory (and the 30k limit in Navan is a joke, so thats not included in my rant)

quarryman

No I was on the lane furthest from the centre. I was NOT in the over-taking lane.

try not to get hung up on this. As far as I'm concerned NEITHER of them should be referred to as "over-taking" anyway - its in an area of heavy roadworks. Over-taking should be last thing on your mind.

quarryman

agent_smith wrote: »

Well whether other people are speeding or not in the outside lane... you should not be there. You shoudl be using the inside lane. The outside land is only for overtaking.
With regard to your other points, I can understand why people speed up. 60kph is rediculous. People get frustrated. There are parts of the m50 with hard shoulder , no workers and perfect stretches of road that are also marked 60 before corneslcort.

AS, your "understanding" of people getting frustrated is completely irrelevant.

The limit is there for a reason - to protect workers and drivers in the confined space.

If you are getting frustrated at being unable to exceed the limit you should probably avoid the M50 or adjust your driving behaviour.

andrewh5

coolbeans wrote: »

+1.

+2

highdef

I could be completely wrong but if I remember corerctly when i browsed through the latest rules of the road booklet, the driving lane/overtaking lane rule only applies on roads with a speed limit over 80 KMPH. This would mean you can pass on the inside on the M50 where the 60 KMPH limit is in place. Someone please correct me if I am wrong. Either way, it also says in the ROTR that you may overtake on the inside if:
"Traffic in both lanes is moving slowly and traffic in the left-hand lane is
moving more quickly than the traffic in the right-hand lane."
Is 60 KMPH slowly for a motorway? How long is a piece of string???

Wossack

quarryman wrote: »

Outside lane.

Furthest from the median.

The OP is not a 'fast lane hogger' as so many people have assumed. This is not what this thread is about.


/edit OP, I'd suggest, since so many people havent twigged it yet, that you edit your post and change all instances of 'outside lane' to 'driving lane'

agent_smith

@quarryman:
You asked a question...

quarryman wrote:

My issue is with those of you acting so dangerously every day on the city's biggest roadwork site.

Why?

quarryman wrote:

AS, your "understanding" of people getting frustrated is completely irrelevant.

The limit is there for a reason - to protect workers and drivers in the confined space.

If you are getting frustrated at being unable to exceed the limit you should probably avoid the M50 or adjust your driving behaviour.

You asked the question why people sped and i gave my opinion; I believe people speed as a result of frustration with a limit that they cannot understand or believe should be in force.. whether it is the law or not. Unfortunately there is not an obvious consistancy in speed limits on the m50. Like the examples mentioned earlier, there are parts marked 60kph with no construction, no road obstructions and no obvious reasons for such drastic reductions in speed from 120/100kph to 60kph where no visible or obvious reason can be seen.

JimmyCrackCorn!

The speed limit is there to stop you flatting workmen and each other.

Pointless though as no one pays attention to it as us being Irish and being genetically inclined to ignore/resist/fight any form of authority as "Youwont be told what to do":rolleyes:.

quarryman

Wossack wrote: »

The OP is not a 'fast lane hogger' as so many people have assumed. This is not what this thread is about.


/edit OP, I'd suggest, since so many people havent twigged it yet, that you edit your post and change all instances of 'outside lane' to 'driving lane'

done.

Please focus on the point of the post guys instead of looking for holes in my perceived driving behaviour, I'm more worried about the people doing 90k on the M50 and why you do it.

thanks!

Atomic Pineapple

used to have to put up with it everyday, thankfully i haven't been on the m50 in nearly a year, i used to keep to the limits too and always had cars flying by or cars stuck to my bumper trying to get into the over taking lane, very annoying so it is especially with the reduction in the width of the road

SuperGrover

When I do end up going over a limit, which is rarely these days, it is usually because adhering to some speed limits feels like you are almost stopped. A good example of this is the fact that I have only ever been done twice - in the same place. That stretch on the N4 at Liffey Valley - crusing all the way back from, say, Galway on mostly single lane and then you have to crawl along in a 5 lane system. That's why, sometimes it seems so slow as to be unbearable.

batman2000

quarryman wrote: »

Outside lane.

Furthest from the median.

Just so not to cause any confusion.. A little drawing!


People shouldn't be speeding, IMO I think 80Kmph should be a more realistic speed. But it's 60Kmph so stick with that. The lack of enforcement by the Gardai it another reason why people speed at feel they can get away with it adn they do. Unfortunaltly, a lot need to be treated with children. If there is no-one there enforcing the rules, they will ignore them.

cabrwab

I travel the M50 everyday, and my blood boils with people who tailgate you as you do the 60KPH.

Even if your in the inside lane. However i do find if i've nothing in front of me, unknown to myself i will speed up, not going mental but maybe 80/90KPH.

Iam sorry, But a point of information, in belfast they are doing similar roadworks i think on the m2(not 100%) and they had the speed limit reduced to 50mph (80KPH) which i thought was more resoniable.

MCMLXXXIII

To get straight to the point...because I like to go fast.

...or sometimes because I'm in a hurry.

Do you think I'm selfish on the road? I probably am. I understand there are rules, but speed limits are created in a fickle manner IMHO. Yes, I do actually own the road - along with everyone else. We paid for it with our taxes. We should be able to decide how fast we may drive - not leave it up to a politician that says s/he is making the roads "safe for everyone." All they are doing is making everyone late all the time.

I don't get angry at slow drivers, and I don't expect them to get angry at me. When I was taught to drive, I was told to go as fast as everyone else...oh and go the speed limit if you think you might get into trouble. No, I didn't learn to drive in Ireland, but the new Irish licensing laws are just starting to catch up to what I did when I learned to drive.

Oh yeah, I have been in one accident - I was going about 20 MPH. So for me, it is statistacally safer to drive fast.

Yes, I drive slowly when there are workers upgrading, but other than that I go fast simply because I like it.

quarryman

MCMLXXXIII wrote: »

To get straight to the point...because I like to go fast.

...or sometimes because I'm in a hurry.

Do you think I'm selfish on the road? I probably am. I understand there are rules, but speed limits are created in a fickle manner IMHO. Yes, I do actually own the road - along with everyone else. We paid for it with our taxes. We should be able to decide how fast we may drive - not leave it up to a politician that says s/he is making the roads "safe for everyone." All they are doing is making everyone late all the time.

I don't get angry at slow drivers, and I don't expect them to get angry at me. When I was taught to drive, I was told to go as fast as everyone else...oh and go the speed limit if you think you might get into trouble. No, I didn't learn to drive in Ireland, but the new Irish licensing laws are just starting to catch up to what I did when I learned to drive.

Oh yeah, I have been in one accident - I was going about 20 MPH. So for me, it is statistacally safer to drive fast.

Yes, I drive slowly when there are workers upgrading, but other than that I go fast simply because I like it.

Finally someone (out of the 400 who have read the thread, of which at least half speed on this section of road but refuse to admit it) has owned up.

but speed limits are created in a fickle manner IMHO

Your opinion isn't important. The limit is 60k.

I agree that 80k might be more suitable in certain stetches but 60k across a longer area is better solution than switching back and forth between 60 and 80 every 1km.

We paid for it with our taxes. We should be able to decide how fast we may drive - not leave it up to a politician that says s/he is making the roads "safe for everyone." All they are doing is making everyone late all the time.

You DO decide the speed limits. The politician is your representative for those decisions. Don't like it? Vote for another party.

When I was taught to drive, I was told to go as fast as everyone else...oh and go the speed limit if you think you might get into trouble.

Where were you instructed this? Going "as fast as everyone else" is what causes this problem.

D_murph

quarryman wrote: »

Your opinion isn't important. The limit is 60k.

quarryman wrote: »

You DO decide the speed limits. The politician is your representative for those decisions. Don't like it? Vote for another party.

the limit is so low because the "politician" is too gutless to make the call to raise it, especially where there are no roadworks and there is no excuse for having the limit remain so low after the roadworks have ended long ago :rolleyes:

voting for another party will change nothing because after all the effort you may put into this it will still not look PC for them either and nothing will change after it.

MCMLXXXIII

quarryman wrote: »

Your opinion isn't important.

Thank you for that.

quarryman wrote: »

Where were you instructed this?

It wasn't in Ireland.

MCMLXXXIII

D_murph wrote: »

the limit is so low because the "politician" is too gutless to make the call to raise it, especially where there are no roadworks and there is no excuse for having the limit remain so low after the roadworks have ended long ago :rolleyes:

voting for another party will change nothing because after all the effort you may put into this it will still not look PC for them either and nothing will change after it.

^ + a zillion

agent_smith

More important than the marked speed (legal speed) from a safety point of view is the speed which suits the prevailing conditions. The problem is that due to inadequate driver training for both new and so called experienced drivers, the interpretations for this vary wildly.
I've done the ROSPA certifications on my bike. I'm not saying it makes me an authority for judging the correct speed for the conditions on the roads. But part of the course is to teach awareness for driving conditions.
The ROSPA (especially when you sit the rospa silver or gold) takes the approach that you should drive to the conditions and will allow for you to make progress and also where appropriate not drive at the indicated speed.
In this case, due to the crappy weather we are having at the moment , people should be hesitant to drive at the indicated speed limits and should give adequate distance between themselves and the vehicle in front. Sounds obvious but bugger all people do.
Similarly there is the concept of making progress, if general traffic is moving 10kph above the limit it is often safer to keep with the flow and make progress at the current rate instead of deliberately going at the specific limit (to prove a point and because the law itself is black and white). Unfortunately like i said, you will always have tail gaters. Furthermore it is unlikely that improvements to driver training will happen over night. In the mean time here is a real world scenario. You are driving on the m50, you have a new born baby in a baby seat in the rear of your car. The outside lane is busy and in a 100 kph seciton of m50 people are doing 120 on the outside and on the inside sitting on your ass at 100kph because you want to stick rigidly to the law (and you are of course being the good textbook driver doing so). The problem is not you doing the 100kph as you rightly pointed out. Its the idiot in the big truck, van or high powered car behind you that is tailgating. If he goes into the back of you due to frustration, yes he will be wrong and can be prosecuted for dangerous driving. The question is ... .if you were to keep with the flow of traffic would the incident have occured in the first place.

The Real B-man

Cionád wrote: »

I presume you mean you were driving in the inside lane, and not the outside lane (overtaking lane)?

Still cant break the speed limit to overtake... if the speed limit is 60kph it should be a even flow in both lanes you just get the arseholes who think its a fast lane.

_Kaiser_

I had reason to use the M50 over the weekend and genuinely did try to stick to the posted 60km/h limits for a few miles after the toll plaza - however, as has been pointed out by others, with a clear road in front of you, people whizzing past you at nearly double the posted limit, and others so close it's as if they're trying to get into your back seat, I decided that to continue at that rate was in fact more dangerous and duly increased both to keep up with the flow of traffic, and to proceed at a rate that I felt was more suitable for the conditions (around 80km/h) - once I did so the journey became a lot less stressful (and thus ultimately safer) as I didn't have to be constantly watching the rearview mirror rather than the road ahead.

Cionád

The Real B-man wrote: »

Still cant break the speed limit to overtake... if the speed limit is 60kph it should be a even flow in both lanes you just get the arseholes who think its a fast lane.

In his original post the OP had said he was driving in the outside lane whereas he meant the inside lane. I was just pointing that out (and it was later edited).

Wishbone Ash

To avoid all this confusion about slow/fast, inside/outside etc. why not use:-

LEFT LANE (CENTRE LANE) RIGHT LANE

For those of you who like to use "inside lane" for the left, what do you call it on a roundabout? It's furthest from the centre then so it would be the "outside lane"! :eek:

green123

the problem is caused by the useless gaurds
why dont they enfore the law ?

a few unmarked cars, stop a few hundred speeders a day
seems simple

R.O.R

A simple solution to the problem is the average speed camera's they use in the UK. Drove through quite a few sections of road works on the M6 last year, think with a 30mph speed limit. Well advertised average speed camera's were in effect and EVERYBODY sticks to the limit. There is literaly 0.5 mph difference between you and the other 2 lanes of traffic, and because everyone sticks to the limit traffic keeps flowing at a steady rate rather than speeding up, slowing to a halt then speeding up again as happens here.

I have to use the hell hole of the M50 everyday and I'll admit quite often I'll exceed the 60km/h limit, usually between Finglas and Ballymun where it's a straight section of road and traffic spreads out. Usually come to a standstill under the Ballymun flyover, but it probably cuts up to 1 minute off my journey home.

Ta me anseo

(Retrieve Soap Box from cupboard)

(Place Soap Box on floor)

(Stand on Soap Box)

To anyone who thinks that they own the road - I agree with you. We all pay for it and therefore we have collective ownership.

To anyone who thinks that they can do what they want on the road because they own it - No you can't you arrogant a***holes. You live in a democracy which means you elect people to make the rules for you and in doing so you agree unreservedly to stick to those rules. If you don't like the rules you tell your elected person/people to change them. If you think your elected people/persons are lazy and uninterested then you elect someone else. But in the meantime, you stick to the bloody rules. Regardless of what bit of tarmac you think is yours.

To anyone who thinks they are entitled to drive around whatever way they like - No you're not. Driving is a privilege NOT a right. That is why we are all licensed. And that is why your license can be taken off you whenever the government/court/spouse thinks it's appropriate. Stop driving like it is a birth right.

To anyone who kills my son/daughter/wife/brother/sister/mother/father/friend or relative while exceeding the speed limit - I will do everything in my power to have you charged with murder. You know speeding is dangerous and can kill people (no, I will not agree that speed is not the problem) yet you do it anyway, that means you acted deliberately and with intent and knew you were putting lives at risk. Exactly the same as some scumbag who sticks a knife in some other scumbag.

The M50 has speed limits. So does every other road in this country. No one is entitled to ignore any of them. Don't blame the government or the guards for the fact that you feel entitled to ignore the law. If you do 100kph in a 60kph zone you are simply an untrustworthy license holder and should have your privilege removed. You are displaying your contempt for every single person in this country, INCLUDING YOUR OWN FAMILY, and displaying your complete apathy regarding the fact that people may die as a result of your actions.

Don't argue that the M50 doesn't need such a low speed limit and that's the only reason why you speed - because you think it is safer to go faster. That is not the point. You reserve the right to choose how slow you drive. YOU DO NOT RESERVE THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE HOW FAST YOU DRIVE.

Get over yourselves and show some respect for everyone else by sticking to the bloody limits.

OP, I'm chuffed to see that a person who actually sticks to the limits exists. Hats off to you.

(Get off Soap Box)

(Place Soap Box in cupboard)