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Downloading case in the High Court
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Join Date:Posts: 26409
The only good thing about this case is we all know Eircom doesn't like being told what to do (years of seeing Comreg and Eircom in court proves this) we also know Eircom doesn't like spending money if it doesn't have to.
As such I'd expect this to be in court for bloody ages and even if the record companys win Eircom are likely to appeal
If the industry wants this issue sorted in the long term then they need to change there business model, setups like iTunes for movie and music rentals/buying are a good start but the best example so far has been from the BBC in the UK....sadly this service isn't available to those outside of the UK.
No other solutions will work in the long term, sure ISP's can limit P2P traffic with the likes of sandvine.com (Comcast in the US use it, CPW in the UK and its thought UPC in Ireland) but people will always find a work around...in this case download from usenet instead or download to a deadicated servver and then download normally via http and/or FTP. (sandvine can't tell if the http/ftp traffic is illegal or not it also can incorrectly throttle legit applications and sometimes even games by accident)
There's too many variables to all this, its not as simple as black and white.
Don't get me wrong I'm not saying copyright infringement is right and should be allowed, hell I know that downloading the latest episode of CSI, Heroes, Lost that aired on NBC in the US lastnight is illegal.
But the fact remains is the vast majority of people are sick to death of hearing about for example CSI airing on CBS lastnight in the states and then RTE doing a half arse job showing it by canceling eps, airing them in the incorrect order or just not showing eps at all so then people have to wait for DVD's and fork out money just to watch a TV show that their local channel/network should show.
At this stage its gotten to the point where the majority of people just don't view it as wrong,
We've all seen that the movie industry has massively decreased the time it used to take for a movie to come to Ireland after showing in the states.
Years ago it could be many many months now its down to weeks, this wasn't down to marketing this used to be down to the fact that the industry wanted to save money so they used the same film reels in the US and then shipped them to other countrys when they stopped showing in the states.
However with all these changes in the end of all this whats happened? Profits have gone up!!
(thats even with movie piracy on-line)
Additionally the movie industry has massively decreased the time it now takes for a movie to go from cinema to DVD/Video and this has also helps, but again in many people's view 22-29e for a new film on dvd is a massive ripp off.
So now we come to the music industry, ah yes....they want to ideally rent music to people on a monthly rate, they also have fought ever change tooth and nail, hell they've fought Apple many a time over the amount of fee's they make from iTunes.
They constantly bitch about lack of sales yet they continue to produce ****e track after ****e track, its not just the price of music and piracy that "may" be affecting the industry its also the quality of the music and in my view its pretty poor indeed.0 -
Join Date:Posts: 26409
On a light note, I guess this sums things up regarding how the industry wants to deal with people
I always find it amusing that the industry view movie, music and tv piracy as stealing, well it is and it isn't,
In one way it is from the side that if you download it your perhaps less likely to watch TV so your less likely to view adverts and less likely to buy products etc, however stealing also suggests somebody actually takes a physical copy and all there anti-piracy adverts also suggest this.
However thats not what happens 0 -
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Join Date:Posts: 26409
bigpaddy2004 wrote: »No im not referring to sandvine, or netequaliser or any other bandwidth limiter
Companies such as Allot communications provide firewalls which can distinguish between copyrighted material and not.
Perhaps there firewall can distinguish between copyright material and non-copyright material on paper but not in practice.
The only way such a system would work is if you apply a digital signature to everything and those items without/with a signature are then treated as copyright material and can't be copied, such a system is unlikely to happen due to the costs involved and many other outside factors.
Plus you'll find that as with any "copy protection" such as CSS its likely to be removed, as I always say if people can make it then people can break it
I believe that unless they do add digital sigs to everything then this "firewall" to which you refer is about as much use as a chocolate teapot.
Off hand looking at there website I see this http://www.allot.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=612&Itemid=88888930, this is the exact same as Sandvine and can easily be worked around. If you have info regarding this "firewall" then please post away 0 -
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When I go into a music shop, the music that I always end up buying is older, 70's, 80's. As was said before, I have no interest in current music because I simply don't like any it, it just isn't very good.
Rather than the Record Companies wasting time trying to prevent the transport mediums (ISP's) from stopping illegal downloads, they should look at the source.
An archaic (in technology terms) and inferior music delivery system i.e the cd.
The CD is their current problem. It's too easy to take the music off a cd
(i'm not saying it's an easy or cheap problem to fix now, before I get jumped on!
but it's very easy to identify this as the main problem)
Music has been a consumer digital product for over 20 years. What other piece of technology has remained unchanged for over 20 years? Nothing!
What other "system" has remained secure for that long? none.
I'm aware that previous attempts to move the technology along have been tried and failed - super audio cd etc and the sony fiasco of cd copy protection over the last few years, but they just got overly aggressive with an antiquated data format that simply couldn't handle it
DVD is already on its way out! Why? Because their expensive copy protection system was cracked. A complete format change is now happening
Major worldwide encryption standards are changed quicker. DVD has been changed. Blu-ray protection was broken almost immediately, and re-engineered. Chip and pin has replaced your signature.
At least these industries are trying to stay ahead. The music industry did nothing...until it was too late
I'm not happy with how I've explained my point, hopefully some people will understand what I mean.
Do I mean It's their own fault for resting on their laurels for so long with the cheap money spinner that Compact Disc presentation and delivery allowed them? maybe I do......0 -
Off hand looking at there website I see this http://www.allot.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=612&Itemid=88888930, this is the exact same as Sandvine and can easily be worked around. If you have info regarding this "firewall" then please post away
I have been speaking with Allot about this, this is there number one sales pitch about their product. I doubt they would lie about something about like this.
Is it not difficult for the music industry to partner up with a software giant like Allot to embed a digital signature in their music for a firewall to pick up on?0 -
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you seem to be missing a fundamental bit of understanding here.
What has to be done to a digitally signed file in order to make it usable?
...the digital sign has to removed!!!
by a software program.....
which most likely 50 - 100 under paid people worked on....(security?)
this program will load the now unsigned file into ram to play in its "secure player"
while another program comes along, copies the ram, and now has a perfect digital unsigned copy of what ever the it is song/movie/document0 -
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Join Date:Posts: 26409
bigpaddy2004 wrote: »I have been speaking with Allot about this, this is there number one sales pitch about their product. I doubt they would lie about something about like this.
Is it not difficult for the music industry to partner up with a software giant like Allot to embed a digital signature in their music for a firewall to pick up on?
hmm, are you saying the link I posted is of the product your talking about, if so then you have a very poor understanding of the product.
As for there sales pitch, we all know sales people always tell the truth and never lie :rolleyes:
Yes I'd agree its not difficult for them to buddy up with a large corp with regards to digital signatures
But lets not forget that digital signatures can be removed and there are loads of codecs out there that have been hacked (XVid for example) that have little or nothing to do with the Microsofts of this world and yet are more popular.
As you can see there are far too many holes in the digital sig system for it to work the way companys would like.
oh and of course don't forget the users who don't want a digital sig format......ever guess why wma format never got very popular even though its better sound quality then mp3, I'll give you a hint I've talked about it above
Its clear to see that the general public don't want digital sigs and the industry is listening to them, one perfect example of this is the iTunes Plus facility. All the benefits of iTunes but if the user pays 20c more then they get a unrestricted file with no digital sig that restricts what devices it can be copied to and how many times it can be burned etc.
Additionally any system that has had restrictions such as DVD, Blu-Ray, HD-DVD, ITunes, etc etc etc has been broken by people, so even if some system was created with a company like Sandvine that made a deal with Apple, Microsoft, Intel, IBM etc then its just going to be broken after a period of time.
In short, bigpaddy2004 I'd suggest you listen to less sales pitches and marketing execs and actually look into the systems at play and how and why its very unlikely to work.0 -
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