Deadlock in Masters/PhD- need to pay back funding?!

jessie-dub

Hi all,
I'm writing this in desperation for some clarity and guidance. I'm now 17 months into an integrated masters/phd programme, and I'm really struggling with it all. I took a year out after my degree, and when applying for this course, I intended to just go for the masters. However I got carried away with the dreams and ambitions of my supervisor, and so started reaching for the PhD, along with the majority of postgrads I started with.

I've had a number of problems since undertaking the research, most significantly a very disinterested supervisor. I know I'm not the only one to have this problem, but I feel completely lost, to the point that I can't sleep for thinking about it all. He is obviously aware that I have not submitted anything substantial, as he keeps reminding me that the PhD transfer is coming up and I need to be prepared. I feel like the only attention I get from him are these half-baked attempts to encourage me, but when I try to get some actual help from him he has no time for me- it's really frustrating. I'm not finding any great conclusions that would justify a PhD, and this worry, on top of the isolation is really getting me down.

I've gradually come to the conclusion that I should have just stuck with the masters. I actually came to this conclusion a year ago, but thought it was just apprehensions about doing something so different. Before now, the thought of telling friends, family and colleagues that I wouldn't be getting a PhD terrified me; but now it is just a relief, and I realise that the initial shame of failure would pass, and I'd then finally be able to relax. Has anyone else experienced this, and do you think it could just be because I haven't found anything, and should keep striving for the PhD? I do think I'd be able to complete in 7 months, and definitely if I got a term extension. I do have a large amount of research done (I just haven't found anything groundbreaking, so right now I think it would be enough for the masters)

The thing that terrifies me the most is the funding. I received an annual scholarship, which started in October. On the application form I stated that I was registered for the integrated programme, and that I intended to transfer to the PhD. If I don't transfer, is that breaking the terms, and will I have to pay the money already received back? The only term relative to this states that I must transfer within two years of the research, and "failure to do so will lead automatically to the termination of a Scholarship". It only states that the scholar may have to pay the money back if they discontinue the research altogether.

I'm sorry for the length of this post. I just feel incredibly lost, and have absolutely nowhere else to turn for advice and guidance.

I'd appreciate any comments, stories and support that you can spare! I know it seems like I've made up my mind, but it's nearly 2 in the morning and I think my exhausted state may have something to do with my new-found clarity

CathalMc

First of all, in the postgraduate forum, never apologise about the length of your post - postgraduate work is all about making what you've done seem more important and groundbreaking - more on this later.

Secondly, maybe could you give us some more information on your situation, as permits your desire for anonymity, namely your field and which scholarship you have. If not, then at least whether you have a research thesis and to what extent you feel you've reached that.

Anyone would caution you to consider deeply your options here. But if I was to be honest, it sounds like you should indeed get out - I'm only sorry that your experience was tarnished by a unfortunate project and supervisor combination.

Certainly, you need to schedule a long meeting with your supervisor, turn on assertive mode, and - tactfully - drill home the reality of your situation.
You need explain exactly what you have achieved and that you lack confidence going forward. You may wish to explain that you feel that your relationship with your supervisor is (in nice terms) too "hands off" for you, and that you work best with someone more available to bounce ideas off.

At this point, you could and should get defined exactly:

- what he would demand to give you a PhD (eg: a quantifiable goal and a deadline)
- what your options are for a graceful exit with a masters right now (funding, etc.)

and based on this demand:

- immediate research direction,
- promise of more regular/scheduled meetings and involvement.

This is not news to you, but it needs to be said. Your supervisor has a responsibility to your academic development, but needs direct feedback, and management when required. You are not an undergraduate - you are in a professional working relationship with this individual, effectively paying to be there. At the end of the day, you benefit from a recognised degree, but he benefits from shared recognition for your work. He is also getting paid to supervise you. Without a doubt, the point to confront him with your concerns was long before you started losing sleep.

Your mileage may vary, but I have not yet heard of someone penalised for taking funding on good faith, and exiting. Again, this is down to the scholarship and another point to discuss with your supervisor. It might be that all this talk of getting out with a Masters spurs him into action.

There is another option, which is worth throwing out there - the question of getting another supervisor, or a co-supervisor. Obviously, I don't know enough about your circumstances to comment here.

Finally, there's some truth that dropping out of a PhD comes with it's own share of embarrassment - but it's pretty superficial as you're leaving with "just" a Masters. At the end of the day, it's your life and you can't be governed by what people think - personally, I'd be gone in a shot if the right job offer came along

All the best!

Zachary

jessie-dub wrote: »

Hi all,
I'm writing this in desperation for some clarity and guidance. I'm now 17 months into an integrated masters/phd programme, and I'm really struggling with it all. I took a year out after my degree, and when applying for this course, I intended to just go for the masters. However I got carried away with the dreams and ambitions of my supervisor, and so started reaching for the PhD, along with the majority of postgrads I started with.

I've had a number of problems since undertaking the research, most significantly a very disinterested supervisor. I know I'm not the only one to have this problem, but I feel completely lost, to the point that I can't sleep for thinking about it all. He is obviously aware that I have not submitted anything substantial, as he keeps reminding me that the PhD transfer is coming up and I need to be prepared. I feel like the only attention I get from him are these half-baked attempts to encourage me, but when I try to get some actual help from him he has no time for me- it's really frustrating. I'm not finding any great conclusions that would justify a PhD, and this worry, on top of the isolation is really getting me down.

I've gradually come to the conclusion that I should have just stuck with the masters. I actually came to this conclusion a year ago, but thought it was just apprehensions about doing something so different. Before now, the thought of telling friends, family and colleagues that I wouldn't be getting a PhD terrified me; but now it is just a relief, and I realise that the initial shame of failure would pass, and I'd then finally be able to relax. Has anyone else experienced this, and do you think it could just be because I haven't found anything, and should keep striving for the PhD? I do think I'd be able to complete in 7 months, and definitely if I got a term extension. I do have a large amount of research done (I just haven't found anything groundbreaking, so right now I think it would be enough for the masters)

The thing that terrifies me the most is the funding. I received an annual scholarship, which started in October. On the application form I stated that I was registered for the integrated programme, and that I intended to transfer to the PhD. If I don't transfer, is that breaking the terms, and will I have to pay the money already received back? The only term relative to this states that I must transfer within two years of the research, and "failure to do so will lead automatically to the termination of a Scholarship". It only states that the scholar may have to pay the money back if they discontinue the research altogether.

I'm sorry for the length of this post. I just feel incredibly lost, and have absolutely nowhere else to turn for advice and guidance.

I'd appreciate any comments, stories and support that you can spare! I know it seems like I've made up my mind, but it's nearly 2 in the morning and I think my exhausted state may have something to do with my new-found clarity

First of all. Don't worry.

I undertook a PhD and submitted a masters after two years. My research broke down -- I wasn't interested in the area and I just couldn't motivate myself to do the work. It's disappointing yes, there can be feelings of personal failure but this is only if you let things go like that!

I quit and did another taught masters in a different institution for a year then worked for another year, and now I'm going back to resume my PhD studies in a totally different area and an area that I'm actually interested in! My number one advice to anyone considering doing a PhD: make sure you're interested in the subject! Number two is: the supervisor relationship must be worked on all the time!

Getting back to your situation -- bear in mind that a lot of PhD students get the depression at around the 2 year mark. They're looking back at the work they've done and comparing it to the literature and start thinking to themselves "how on earth am I ever going to finish this!". It's perfectly normal and a very common occurance. In fact, it's all part of the education of a PhD student.

My advice would be to hold your head up high, talk to your supervisor and come up with a work strategy for the next 1 to 2 years of your studies.

If you're still in despair, just submit a master's degree and move you life onwards and upwards! It's not the end of the world and I very much doubt the funding agency will come after you for the fees -- they'll be perfectly happy to add another masters degree student to their statistics!

jessie-dub

Thank you both so much for your advice. CathalMc, I'm researching in the arts, and I have the Irish Research Council scholarship.

I've just bitten the bullet and arranged to meet my supervisor to discuss my options. I don't even know what I'm going to say, but like you've advised, I'll let him know the situation and we can try to figure it out together. I hate that I've let it get to the point of desperation, but I'm sure the only reason all of these thoughts are entering my head now are because I have to decide very soon if I want to go ahead with the transfer process, and I suppose that's just forced me to really think about my options.

I also think my own mind is definitely swaying to the masters option- mainly because when I saw there were replies to this post I really hoped they didn't tell me to cop on and stick with the PhD!

And Zachary you're right, that's exactly how I feel- the research has broken down, it just doesn't interest me, and so I can't motivate myself; the thoughts of two more years of this are daunting. I've actually thought that if I do finish up this year, then the PhD will always still be there to pursue, and I'd have more time and experience to establish a great topic and a professional working relationship with a potential supervisor. It's encouraging to hear from someone who actually did it that way.

Thanks again for your advice- I'll let you know how the meeting goes and what the big decision will be!

H2G2

jessie-dub I think you have got some sound advice here so far and I am sure there will be more. Let me just add two things as a supervisor of PhD students:
1. Your worry about having to pay back money is definitely not an issue. I have seen many research students (MSc and PhD) both drop out and be given the push in my faculty over the years and no one has ever been asked to pay money back. You won’t be asked and they certainly can’t make you, so do not worry about that.
2. I am sorry to hear about your supervisor. But again my experience is that this is all too common these days. I see it with either busy or disinterested supervisors in my own faculty and I think its professionally disgusting. My question to you is: Would a change of supervisor help? I have seen this happen on a few (very few) number of occasions. It happened me 4 years ago when a PhD candidate asked me to take over supervision due to ‘personality clash’ with her supervisor. The changeover happened… the old supervisor wasn’t happy, but I got backing to sort that out. The end result was a good PhD, just a year or so longer than it should have taken.

As Zachary posted… If you're still in despair, just submit a master's degree and move you life onwards and upwards

newestUser

Everything said up to this point is spot on.

Don't worry about IRCHSS coming after you for their money. I've been in a postgrad research environment for 6 years, seen a fair few people drop out, no-one got hassled for money. No fear of that happening. When you quit a job, does your employer sue you for the money they previously paid you?!?

I also think everyone goes through the stage of 'I can't advance my research degree, I need help from my supervisor, why won't someone help me?'. I don't know the specifics of your case, but you need to be able to drag yourself through the process and through these blocks. The point of a research degree is that it teaches you to be an independent scholar. And independent means being able to get stuff done without anyone helping you.

Esmereldina

Hi, you've gotten some really good advice already, so I don't think there's much left for me to say! I would agree that it's extremely unlikely that IRCHSS will ask for the money back. I think it was written into my terms that they could do that, but in practice it never really happens. If you do submit the Masters that won't really be dropping out, so they should be happy with that anyway.

As regards the getting fed up with research, that happens to every PhD student!!! Some of us keep going and realise that we do like what we are doing after all and some drop out. Some keep ploughing on for years even though they aren't really happy and suited to the research life (first 2 options oare ok but the thrid one is definitely the most dreary!!). You'll have to figure out whether you are just having normal PhD doubts or whether you are aren't suited to the academic life. One suggestion would be: could you take some time off your research and do something else for a while, even a few months? Depending on whether you miss academia or get really caught up in the new thing that you're doing, this could help you figure out whether you want to continue or not.

Another thing to keep in mind is that you are supposed to be learning to be an independent scholar at PhD stage, so your supervisor shouldn't really be that important a figure, especially in humanities research. But you should be able to demand a talk with him or her at this stage, so that he can give you a realistic idea about the quality of your research etc (it's nearly always better than you think!) and help you decide what to do.

jessie-dub

Hi all, I just wanted to check back in and let you know that I've decided to just go ahead with the Masters, and I've never been happier! I kept my funding, thank god! And my supervisor had continued to keep his distance even after the relatively long chat we had, which has served to completely justify my decision.
Anyway, I know it's been ages since I posted, but just incase any of you stumble across this again, I just wanted to say thank you so much for your advice- it really helped me get me head in check, and I'm now so much happier than I was when I originally posted

Red Alert

Glad to hear it's worked out & thanks for updating us on it Best of luck!

road_high

jessie-dub wrote: »

Hi all, I just wanted to check back in and let you know that I've decided to just go ahead with the Masters, and I've never been happier! I kept my funding, thank god! And my supervisor had continued to keep his distance even after the relatively long chat we had, which has served to completely justify my decision.
Anyway, I know it's been ages since I posted, but just incase any of you stumble across this again, I just wanted to say thank you so much for your advice- it really helped me get me head in check, and I'm now so much happier than I was when I originally posted

Yea I was goimng to advise you to "cut your losses" and submit it as Masters, which is whar yer doing now; that seemed like the very lodgical thing to do. I was in somewhat similar situation before; i knew it was not Phd standard so just went for the Masters and happy out now.
A Masters is still a great achievement...