Petrol Pumps

Steve

MYOB wrote: »

Despite them being specifically banned in law?

Theres been a thread on this before, theres some SI from the late 1970s that bans their use.

Yep, here:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055219311

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Trojan911 wrote: »

While the garage is trading, the forecourt is a public place, so the Road Traffic Act does apply.

Same with shopping carparks and the likes.

Incorrect!!!

hottstuff

Trojan911 wrote: »

While the garage is trading, the forecourt is a public place, so the Road Traffic Act does apply.

Same with shopping carparks and the likes.

http://www.acts.ie/print/zza24y1961.1.html

"car park" means a place (not being part of a public road)

_Kaiser_

I leave the car at the pump until I've gone in and paid myself. As someone else mentioned, it avoids possible CCTV, pump reset and finding alternate parking issues.

Besides, I generally go to bigger stations with 4 or more pumps anyway so it's not that big a deal. From observation I'd imagine 90% of people are the same.

5500

Its much of a muchness so to speak weather you move your car or not.

From what ive noticed the till operator wont rerelease the pump untill its been paid,so even if you move the car and someone else pulls up they cant fill up untill you've paid so there going to be waiting either ways.

Trojan911

hottstuff wrote: »

http://www.acts.ie/print/zza24y1961.1.html

Can't access your link. Here is a link, Public Place. Sub Sec D. It is the same with shops etc. They may be privately owned but while trading, they are public places.

hottstuff

Trojan911 wrote: »

Can't access your link. Here is a link, Public Place. Sub Sec D.

from that link

and which is used for public recreational purposes

Wishbone Ash

Interestingly, the relevant Statute Instrument continually refers to "petroleum". I only ever seen the auto-dispense at diesel pumps.

Dangerous Substances (Retail and Private Petroleum Stores) Regulations 1979


45. (1) Where the dispensing of petroleum Class I is carried on at a retail store the following provisions shall apply:

( a ) the dispensing of petroleum shall be constantly supervised and controlled by—

(i) one or more authorised persons situated in a central position and not less than 17 years of age, or

(ii) one or more authorised persons situated in the forecourt area where the delivery of petroleum is being made to the fuel tanks of vehicles;

( b ) where the supervision and control of dispensing pumps are being exercised from a central location, there shall be provided at that location an efficient isolating switch or other device for cutting-off the power to all pumps and electric lighting circuits of pumps, and the isolating switch or other device shall be in addition to the separate control switch required to be provided by these Regulations for each pump;

( c ) where a central control location is provided, all self-service pumps and the forecourt area used for the delivery of petroleum to the fuel tanks of vehicles shall be clearly and readily visible by the authorised person from that location;

( d ) where supervision is being exercised by an authorised person from a central location, petroleum shall not be dispensed from a self-service pump unless an authorised person is present in that central location, but this requirement shall not apply if the control system for each pump has been de-activated to prevent delivery of petroleum other than by a separate control system for a pump attended by an authorised person in the forecourt area;

( e ) where the supervision and control of dispensing pumps are exercised by an authorised person from a central location—

(i) a system of communication shall be provided to enable that person to issue instructions to customers without leaving his location, and

(ii) the number of dispensing pumps under his supervision and control shall not interfere with the efficient carrying out of his duties in relation to the prevention of risk of injury to person or property;

( f ) an authorised person referred to in paragraph (a) of this Regulation shall, so far as it reasonably practicable, ensure, before a pump under his supervision is activated for the delivery of petroleum to the fuel tank of a vehicle, that the engine is switched off and that the appropriate provisions of these Regulations are observed;

( g ) subject to any condition attached to a licence sufficient and suitable lighting shall be provided in the area of the forecourt where a dispensing pump is located, and a general level of illumination shall be maintained of not less than 10 lumens per 0.10 square metres, the intensity of illumination to be measured in the horizontal plane at the top of the cabinet, housing or enclosure of each dispensing pump available for use;

( h ) in the event of spillage or leakage of petroleum likely to cause a fire, explosion or other dangerous occurrence, the authorised person shall immediately de-activate all dispensing pumps and take all other practicable steps in accordance with his duties under these Regulations for the protection of persons or property against risk of injury.

(2) Where an authorised person is not present at a retail store no petroleum Class I shall be dispensed into the fuel tanks of vehicles owned by the public unless in accordance with and subject to the conditions attached to a licence.

Trojan911

hottstuff wrote: »

from that link

That is sub sec B. Refers to parks ect. As stated, sub sec D.

hottstuff

Trojan911 wrote: »

That is sub sec B. Refers to parks ect. As stated, sub sec D.

It all relates to Public Order offences , not Road Traffic offenses

Trojan911

hottstuff wrote: »

It all relates to Public Order offences , not Road Traffic offenses

You are missing the point.

In this case the forecourt of the garage is deemed a public place whilst it trades, therefore whether it be traffic offences or public order offences they are in play.

If this does not give you clarity then post a question on the Legal Discussion Forum.

Zorba

Ok thanks guys, that'd explain how i could never get the thing to clip in !
But thought they would've unclipped themselves once the tank is full like they do when u manually fill the tank ?

knird evol wrote: »

Just stick your petrol cap in to the nozzel handle securing the pump...then lean casually back against your car looking > super cool < while all the other mugs hunch over the nozzel.

Good idea but i'd be a bit paranoid about the thing overflowing !!

Wishbone Ash

Trojan911 wrote: »

In this case the forecourt of the garage is deemed a public place whilst it trades, therefore whether it be traffic offences or public order offences they are in play

That may be so but I have never ever heard or witnessed the Gardai dealing with any road traffic violations other than on a public road. (A public road being defined as a road which is maintained by a national or local authority).

If the Gardai witness a person leaving a public house and getting into a car, they will always wait until that person is out in a public road before dealing with them.


Within the confines of Dublin Airport, it is the Dublin Airport Police who deal with road traffic offences. In Dublin Port it's the Harbour Police.

I accept though that this does not necessarily mean that the gardai can't deal with it off the public road but one is tempted to ask if it would not be more appropriate to deal with a drunk driver before he/she enters a public road.

Trojan911

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

That may be so but I have never ever heard or witnessed the Gardai dealing with any road traffic violations other than on a public road. (A public road being defined as a road which is maintained by a national or local authority).

You are quite entitled to call the guards if you have an accident or find damage to your car as a result of someone bumping your car in a carpark, once it is deemed a public place i.e. during trading hours.

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

If the Gardai witness a person leaving a public house and getting into a car, they will always wait until that person is out in a public road before dealing with them. but one is tempted to ask if it would not be more appropriate to deal with a drunk driver before he/she enters a public road.

Absolutely, and one would be correct to critical if a Garda was to allow this. Drunk in Charge covers this. The carpark of the pub being a public place until it has ceased trading & is closed & locked up.

After that they would have to wait until the driver enters a public road/place.

For instance, I know of a case in the UK where a farmer used to drive his tractor to the end of his land. There he parked up & opened the gate, walked across the road & went into the pub.

Hours later he came out the pub, very sozzled, opened the gate into his land climbed the tractor & drove it back to the farmhouse. He couldn't be prosecuted as he was on private property. In this case, it was his private property. That's how he got around the drink driving laws.

Omcd

Having worked a long time ago dispensing petrol, the main problem a garage has with people moving their cars before payment has been made relates to identifying whether or not a drive off (failure to pay) is happening. Nowadays modern CCTV provides recording of these offences, before that it was up to the garage staff to get the reg of the car before it disppeared, but moving before paying is still frowned on by most garages, as it makes it harder to track in real time what is going on and whether it is legit or not.

But it is just plain ignorance for somebody to go into the shop to pay for petrol and at the same time spend ages shopping or getting sweets for the kids, or whatever, while their car is blocking the pump. Pay for petrol first, move the car, then come back in and do the shopping.

Another comment I would make is auto cut out systems are not 100% reliable and do sometimes fail (dirt in the sensor or whatever), so you need to keep an eye on whats happening (clip or no clip) otherwise you could turn around and find you're pumping petrol all over the forecourt. Petrol can come back up the filling spout for a number of reasons, not just if the tank is full, but also if the pump is pumping too fast for the filler spout to handle, or you are pumping at an incorrect angle.

LadyTBolt

The answer is blatently obvious - Bring back Forecourt Attendants. Pay and Go.

I know it's a job that nobody anybody wants or wants to employ somebody for but I'm sure some teenager would be happy with a few quid at the weekend (when most people refuel) and I know lots of people who would favour going to a forecourt with an attendant than one without. If there was a forecourt attendant in my area I'd go there even if the fuel was slightly higher than a neighbouring petrol station for the convenience alone.

And stop blaming women for holding up the pumps. Plenty of men have done it to me and think an 'awl wave makes it ok when there is plenty of space away from the pump to park. I myself, as hard as you might find it to believe, pull away from the pump and go back and pay.

L1011

Small petrol station = attendent is going to make a noticeable cost increase on fuel. Additionally, theres still a labour shortage for that kind of work...

Large station = many attendents, or waiting times = price increase and not satisfactory.

Vikings

LadyTBolt wrote: »

The answer is blatently obvious - Bring back Forecourt Attendants. Pay and Go.

A bit before my motoring time but absolutely! Sure the Esso in Celbridge has a poor lad working the Jet Wash at the weekends.

€6.00 (3x €2) and he gives it as good a clean as you would yourself.


There would have to be an increase in the cost of petrol for this to happen though - most petrol stations now rely on the shop accompanying them for profit and if your punters don't enter the shop then theres no profit to be made from it!

tomred1

I taught you have to pay before you move you car.As how would they know how much you owe if someone uses it before you get to the till.

Wishbone Ash

Vikings wrote: »

Amost petrol stations now rely on the shop accompanying them for profit and if your punters don't enter the shop then theres no profit to be made from it!

Therein lies the problem. The margin on fuel is tiny - the profit is made in the shop.

L1011

tomred1 wrote: »

I taught you have to pay before you move you car.As how would they know how much you owe if someone uses it before you get to the till.

The display unit for the shop usually holds a few previous transactions at the same time. Also have found a case where the pump wasn't unlocked again until the previous transaction was marked as paid instore!

Riskymove

1. i thought the OP was talking about people who block pumps just to go into shop, i.e. not getting petrol


2. In relation to fears of tank overflowing its my experience that there's an automatic cut off when your tank is almost full...

L1011

Riskymove wrote: »

2. In relation to fears of tank overflowing its my experience that there's an automatic cut off when your tank is almost full...

They're woefully faulty in many places.

D_murph

MYOB wrote: »

They're woefully faulty in many places.

thats true but the fault that usually seems to crop up the most i find is that the bloody things are too sensitive and trip off for no reason several times. even when only half "throttling" it. i had to leave one station a few years ago because no matter what i did it just would not work. it took ages just to get a tenner out of it at the rate it would work at :rolleyes: so i baled out.

i generally pay and then move because id be paranoid that the staff would think im doing a drive off. that and the keeping track of who has paid issues but i do it very quick and get out of the way ASAP.

no going to the cash machine because i havent even brought enough money or something like some others do or doing my weekly shopping etc while the next person waits outside :rolleyes:.

one thing i keep noticing though is the amount of people that wait behind a car which is already at a pump even though there is at least one other pump free, is not out of order and is at the correct side for their cars tank .

weird :rolleyes:. anyone else see this happening?

ASTRACLUB

Well just to add more frustration of a different kind
petrol pump in Ireland are not up to date also. The payement by card option is almost not working in many of them. tesco-Maynooth is one of the example.
Also the petrol pumps are not well laid out like in Europe.
I went to France and italy just last week and there was place for everything, car parking while you get petrol or snacks, toilet, motor home car parking, drain, etc. Lorry car parking and all were marked properly.
Also the self filling clip should be back. I think Ireland is the only country with clip removed (not sure just guessing) but this is a facility must be reasearched by many people in oil industry, its really feel stup** holding the nozzle for long time....

To my surprised there are very few petrol pump on new motorways (M4 M1 etc), there should be palce for petrol as well as parking for rest etc.

The planing folks should wake up and think broadly ....

JHMEG

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Therein lies the problem. The margin on fuel is tiny - the profit is made in the shop.

I don't believe that for a second. I was told before that filling stations have about a 15% margin on fuel.

Tazdedub

I have no problem with waiting for a pump to come free if some gets there before me or is in the shop paying for petrol or buying something but what I do have a problem with is the idiots who enter the garage through the exit so they can skip the queue and then you end up with two cars facing each other, now that really annoys me. Its the same with the idiots who exit through the entrance.

Rovi

Tazdedub wrote: »

what I do have a problem with is the idiots who enter the garage through the exit so they can skip the queue and then you end up with two cars facing each other, now that really annoys me. Its the same with the idiots who exit through the entrance.

In fairness, at many filling stations the only indications of such a 'one way system' is badly eroded 'In/Out/Entrance/Exit/whatever' lettering on the tarmac inside the filling station, usually only visible as you drive over it.

cabrwab

The mark up on fuel for a garage is "TINY" used be 1p a liter when i was a fuel injection technician!!
Don't know if that has changed much. But i doubt it, this is why shops are getting bigger at petrol stations.

More to the point people going into the shops not getting petrol or anything is rather annoying.
But really how does sitting there blasting your horn at them make life better, increase blood pressure? "can you say cardiac arrest?"
Everybody will be look at you going "what an ass*ole, relax"

Then the person will come back probably give the finger or ignore you and proceed to slowly drive off taking as long as possible!

But if they have gotten petrol i will wait, i want to make sure the pump resets. And don't always assume there is a display inside the shop sometimes the last transaction disappears. Or they will think you haven't paid. and your ugly mug will be placed up on the wall for robbing fuel!
(i include myself in ugly mug)

BnA

togster wrote: »

Really some people have very little to worry about

Agreed

Life's too short.

If you are sitting outside a petrol station, sitting on the horn while some other chap is inside trying to decide wheather to have black or white pudding in his breakfast roll, there is no doubt whatsoever about which one of you is the sad fool.