Thierry Henry to return to Prem?

Mr Alan

its true that Rafas net spend in the summer was less than Moyes, yes.

ciaran76

Mr Alan wrote: »

its true that Rafas net spend in the summer was less than Moyes, yes.

So summer but not the 2007-2008 season ?

Mr Alan

actually i posted up a list there, but i think it may be before the Fernandes deal collapsed. how much you pay for him in the end?

ciaran76

Mr Alan wrote: »

actually i posted up a list there, but i think it may be before the Fernandes deal collapsed. how much you pay for him in the end?

He is only on loan still.

Mr Alan

in that case the net spend figures that people are quoting are inaccurate, as afaik they were incl Fernandes at 9 million which was on the brink before it collapsed. we spent about a couple of million or so more than ye in that case. still interesting if ya ask me considering we werent meant to have gone on sucha spree that a title challenge was a sure thing

Mitch Connor

Mr Alan wrote: »

in that case the net spend figures that people are quoting are inaccurate, as afaik they were incl Fernandes at 9 million which was on the brink before it collapsed. we spent about a couple of million or so more than ye in that case. still interesting if ya ask me considering we werent meant to have gone on sucha spree that a title challenge was a sure thing

In fairness, I don't think it is fair to compare the spending of a team like City or Everton in ONE season to the likes of United or Liverpool in ONE season - as United and Liverpool would have an already expensive squad and only be adding to it while the likes of Everton and City need to spend big to try and get the ssqaud to the next level. You have to look at the spending over a few seasons relative to the teams starting position and current performance.

Also, it was mostly Liverpool fans saying this year was going to be their year - most oppostions fans i'd have spoken to pre-season had the same opinion they always did - despite the money spent, Liverpool still weren't good enough.

Mr Alan

harsh truth.

although the point i was getting at was that most media outlets were severly misinformed about just how substantial our spending was this year.

you dont post enough anymore.

i miss you

stick-dan

Mr Alan wrote: »

Not the Pool. Just Rafa, i love him

Me too Mr.Alan, Such an under-rated manager. A rafalusionist. Long live benitez. I would love thierry to come to liverpool but only if the price was cheap. He could aide in torres's maturing process at the pool

Mitch Connor

Mr Alan wrote: »

harsh truth.

although the point i was getting at was that most media outlets were severly misinformed about just how substantial our spending was this year.

you dont post enough anymore.

i miss you

I know - started in a new area in work.... less time to arse around doing nothing, for the same pay.

Plus nothing interesting has been happening recently, apart from the Liverpool/DIC talks, and I don't have much to say that would be deemed constructive on that matter, so i'm keeping stum!

And to get back on topic.... I really can't see Henry coming back to England. Arsenal won't take him back, United or Chelsea wouldn't go for him, so of the usual 'big 4' that only leaves Liverpool, and I just don't see it happening, mainly cause Babbel is looking a very good propect, and he won't flourish playing second fiddle to Henry for two years. As for aiding Torres' maturing process... REALLY don't think so. Torres is already the leading man at 'pool, he doesn't need tutoring from Henry. If liverpool were to sign any player to help Torres, they'd need to be looking at a player in the Bergkamp mould, Bergkamp is the player that 'made' Henry imo. If he is to leave barcelona, someone like Villareal, or At. Madrid would be good moves for him I reckon, or possibly a move back to France with Lyon.

Fratton Fred

I love the arrogance of the "Big Four" fans. why is it hard to believe he would go somewhere outside of the big four? is CL football everything?

Mr Alan

It is hugely important to the top players fred and i think most people know that. i wouldnt call it arrogant to state the obvious.

kaimera

Report today that Henry misses his daughter and thats why he's unsettled.

Mitch Connor

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I love the arrogance of the "Big Four" fans. why is it hard to believe he would go somewhere outside of the big four? is CL football everything?

As Alan said, CL football is massively important to 'world class' players and i am certian that is how Henry views himself. For the record, i do think he would sign for a team 'like' Spurs - a team with a fantastic stadium, a fantastic manager and a squad of players that look like they could be close to making a proper challenge to the top 4; but he isn't going to sign for Spurs.

Fratton Fred

Mr Alan wrote: »

It is hugely important to the top players fred and i think most people know that. i wouldnt call it arrogant to state the obvious.

Important, yes, but the attitude is that a player like Henry would not consider anything else.

Playing regularly and playing well is, I would say, more important to most players.

_blank_

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Important, yes, but the attitude is that a player like Henry would not consider anything else.

Playing regularly and playing well is, I would say, more important to most players.

Interesting point tbh, but ultimitely flawed, I think.

Players like Henry want to play regularly, but at a level that they see themselves at. He thought he would at Barca, he still thinks he should be, so he still regards himself as in the bracket of players who should be at clubs competing in the CL. The UEFA Cup is "below" them.

It's the best competition in the world. If a player didn't want to play in this, you'd have to question his ambition.

I can see what you are getting at though. Look at Defoe. Moved from Spurs to get regular football, and he's flourishing. But he needed to move, so he could put himself in the international window, let the new manager see what he could do.

Henry, and players like him, don't need to do that, they are shoe-ins for their national team.

If Ronaldo was to move from United and, say, both Spurs and Inter Milan were the only two in for him (hypothetical situation, I know, but bear with me). Where would he choose to go?

Inter Milan of course. CL Football.

(Although, Henry may be a bad example of this, as I feel he is on the downward curve of an excellent career, he just hasn't realised this).

Mr Alan

well Fred, fact is that Henry would pretty much have his choice of CL clubs if he decided to leave, and he would be playing regularly with most, and has a better chance of playing well in better teams (which are usually in the CL) . That combined with the reasons he seemingly left Arsenal, imo, would make it near no chance he would leave barca for anything less than a CL club that intends challenging for titles. sorry if ya find that arrogant

Charlie

rossie1977 wrote: »

so thats liverpools lot, they shouldn't spend any more money from here on in until football finishes

man utd and chelsea sign £20m subs like nani, hargreaves, carrick, wright-philips, shevchenko, mikel etc but somehow its rafa that has over spent, the same rafa who was outspent (net spend) by roy keane and david moyes this summer :rolleyes:

liverpool had to sell cisse, bellamy and garcia to raise the cash to sign torres. The sold gonzales for £6.5m and brought in Babel

Yes, thats exactly what I meant, Rafa should never spend another penny. :rolleyes:

Perhaps though its time for Rafa to batton down the hatches and work with what he has, rather than every season being a bedding in season for new players, and next year will be the challenge for the league. I think its fair to say that Cisse, Bellamy and Garcia got sold because they are not the types of players that win you a league. Yet they seemed to be replaced by a fair few equally mediocre players.

You can't compare 'Pool with Chelsea as they are the exception to the rule. Although, even with their bottomless money pit, they've use their money relatively well and signed quality players.

And in comparison to United, United may spend big, but they don't spend too often. They don't squander their money on endless £6 million average players.

Tusky

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Important, yes, but the attitude is that a player like Henry would not consider anything else.

Playing regularly and playing well is, I would say, more important to most players.

Well thats because he wouldnt consider moving to a club outside the big four. Its safe to say he isnt going to sign for Villa or Blackburn should he return.

Mental Mickey

Fratton Fred wrote: »

It's a done deal, He is a Pompey fan after all and if anyone can get a few more seasons out of him, it'll be Arry:D

Ya could've tried to change the crest on the shorts too?? :rolleyes: Very amateur editing imo.

I think he'd be good at pool along with Torres.............?

rossie1977

charlie mchugh wrote: »

Yes, thats exactly what I meant, Rafa should never spend another penny. :rolleyes:

Perhaps though its time for Rafa to batton down the hatches and work with what he has, rather than every season being a bedding in season for new players, and next year will be the challenge for the league. I think its fair to say that Cisse, Bellamy and Garcia got sold because they are not the types of players that win you a league. Yet they seemed to be replaced by a fair few equally mediocre players.

You can't compare 'Pool with Chelsea as they are the exception to the rule. Although, even with their bottomless money pit, they've use their money relatively well and signed quality players.

And in comparison to United, United may spend big, but they don't spend too often. They don't squander their money on endless £6 million average players.

what does £5m buy you today??? when the likes of Darren Bent are costing £16m and Gareth Bale £12m. At best £5m will buy you a squad player in todays market, liverpool having reached 2 champions league finals in 3 years and benefiting to the tune of £50m+ because of that; and yet are competing with the likes of blackburn, fulham and sunderland for players what players would man utd be signing if they reached two finals in 3 years, they certainly wouldn't be spending £3m on a winger to play first-team like liverpool did over the summer

as for man utd not squandering their money on endless £6m average players does the likes of Kleberson, Djemba Djemba, Taibi, Poborsky, Barthez, Bellion and forlan ring any bells lets not mention veron shall we

Garcia was a fine buy and for about £1m (net cost of buying and selling him) he almost single handed got liverpool to the champs league final in 2005. Cisse was unlucky, two badly broken legs (within 18 months) is about as unlucky as you can get, bellamy was a big gamble that didn't pay off for rafa but they still made a £1m profit on him so no worries :cool:

gosplan

charlie mchugh wrote: »

You can't compare 'Pool with Chelsea as they are the exception to the rule. Although, even with their bottomless money pit, they've use their money relatively well and signed quality players.

Mutu, Tiago, Shevchenko, Veron, Kezman, Del Horno, Ben Haim,

you could even add SWP to that list.

there's a good few I've forgotten about as well.

rossie1977

the point is every manager makes poor signings not just Rafa (or to be more correct signings that don't work out for whatever reason). When rafa signed Morientes everybody thought it was a steal, here was a guy with 3 champions league medals and a bucketload of goals for Real, Monaco and Spain and yet the guy was awful in England, goes back to Spain and starts banging them in again :mad:

Wenger has also had a few clangers in the transfer market £10m on Jeffers, £7m on Richard Wright, Nelson Vivas, £5m for Kaba Diawara, Stepanovs, Reyes

Mr Alan

i also read a stat the other day where it showed the amount each clubs pay in wages, and Arsenals wage bill is hefty as ****, far more so than Liverpools. Which goes to show, although wenger has adopted a thus far successful stradegy of buying young/unproven talent, in order to get these players to London, he is paying them big big money. How many of these dont make it? hhhhmmmmm

Charlie

rossie1977 wrote: »

what does £5m buy you today???

Ask Arsene Wenger, probably alot.

as for man utd not squandering their money on endless £6m average players does the likes of Kleberson, Djemba Djemba, Taibi, Poborsky, Barthez, Bellion and forlan ring any bells

It pains me to defend United, but look at how far your stretching your examples back. Taibi was signed in 1999 and Poborsky was a '96 buy. Barthez was decent. I'll give you the others (and that's not much) but Fergie has seemed to eradicated such frivilous purchases from his spending these days, sadly Rafa hasn't.

lets not mention veron shall we

Are you joking? The way Veron was playing I don't think anyone thought he'd turn out the way he did. But I don't doubt Fergie for signing him. At the time, he was arguably the best midfielder in the world. Those are the calibre of player a title challenging side should be aspiring to sign.

Cisse was unlucky, two badly broken legs (within 18 months) is about as unlucky as you can get

Cisse may have been unlucky wih his breaks, but he never struck me as being a player who'd be leading a title chase. Reeked of another Diouf purchase.

Garcia was a fine buy and for about £1m (net cost of buying and selling him) bellamy was a big gamble that didn't pay off for rafa but they still made a £1m profit on him so no worries :cool:

If making small profits on players is Rafa's job, then he's doing very well. But its not. In bellamy's case, instead of making a million, it was just another wasted year where a title challenge was out the window by November.

Charlie

gosplan wrote: »

Mutu, Tiago, Shevchenko, Veron, Kezman, Del Horno, Ben Haim,

you could even add SWP to that list.

there's a good few I've forgotten about as well.

Mutu was decent and still is, but was dropped because he was fond of the charlie. They made a profit on Kezman, so no bills squandered there. Ben Haim was a freebie, so again no bills squandered.

Shev was a waste but we all know that purchase wasn't made by a manager, whereas Rafa does decide who he'll sign.

I'll give you Tiago, but I always though Del Horno was decent and surprised he was let go. Certainly racked up some nice Fantasy League points when he was there

rossie1977

charlie mchugh wrote: »

Ask Arsene Wenger, probably alot.

It pains me to defend United, but look at how far your stretching your examples back. Taibi was signed in 1999 and Poborsky was a '96 buy. Barthez was decent. I'll give you the others (and that's not much) but Fergie has seemed to eradicated such frivilous purchases from his spending these days, sadly Rafa hasn't.

and fergie has been at man utd 22 years and rafa 4 years what is your point?? in fergies first four years he was wasting millions on the likes of danny wallace, neil webb, mike phelan etc and ending up 13th in the table.

If making small profits on players is Rafa's job, then he's doing very well. But its not. In bellamy's case, instead of making a million, it was just another wasted year where a title challenge was out the window by November.

first rafa didn't sign Cisse

second liverpool reached the champions league final last year with Bellamy and made twice as much money as they would have had they won the league.... success or failure??

as for your veron point see morientes

Third_Echelon

Mental Mickey wrote: »

Ya could've tried to change the crest on the shorts too?? :rolleyes: Very amateur editing imo.

I think he'd be good at pool along with Torres.............?

That pic was after a cup game at pompey a few years ago was it not?

Charlie

Mr Alan wrote: »

i also read a stat the other day where it showed the amount each clubs pay in wages, and Arsenals wage bill is hefty as ****, far more so than Liverpools.

Accordng to World Soccer Arsenal spent 14 million more last season than Pool, but Henry's off the books now, and 'Pool have Torres on theres (and a few others, whereas Arsenal didn't really sign anyone in the summer)

Whatever the difference is in wages is definitely negated by a large way in transfer fees.

Arsenal cleared big profits, and wasn't Wenger told (and refused) £70 odd million to spend as Arsenal ere doing so well.

Wasn't there an excel file floating around boards that showed how much clubs have spent since Rafa took over, and taking into account the Henry transfer, Arsenal have cleared a small profit in that time, whereas Liverpool have spent £100+ million.

Which goes to show, although wenger has adopted a thus far successful stradegy of buying young/unproven talent, in order to get these players to London, he is paying them big big money. How many of these dont make it? hhhhmmmmm

Clutching at straws big time son. Arsenal's Youth policy is second to none.

rossie1977

charlie mchugh wrote: »

Mutu was decent and still is, but was dropped because he was fond of the charlie. They made a profit on Kezman, so no bills squandered there. Ben Haim was a freebie, so again no bills squandered.

Shev was a waste but we all know that purchase wasn't made by a manager, whereas Rafa does decide who he'll sign.

I'll give you Tiago, but I always though Del Horno was decent and surprised he was let go. Certainly racked up some nice Fantasy League points when he was there

you are just making stuff up now, how were those players good what did they do to write their names in history, all i remember del horno for was getting sent for against barca.

lets compare them to garcia who scored 5 or was it 6 goals in the knockout stages of the champions league 2005, did kezman do likewise?? garcia also scored in the fa cup semi final in 2006 to help beat chelsea

Cisse scored in the cup final itself to get liverpool straight back in the game after they were getting run-over, thats making a mark, letting the ball under your legs and into the goal is not value.

Mr Alan

charlie mchugh wrote: »

Clutching at straws big time son. Arsenal's Youth policy is second to none.

Agreed. Although, without trying to belittle it, they have yet to win anything, and are doing a good job of blowing the league. (FA cup 2005 last thing they won)

astrofool

Players like Bellamy also had horrendous wages to pay, mostly due to the fact that he was cheap.

rossie1977

charlie mchugh wrote: »

Clutching at straws big time son. Arsenal's Youth policy is second to none.

so what ex youth players are currently playing in arsenals first team and please don't mention players developed by the likes of monaco and barcelona

ashley cole is the last guy i remember to make it

Charlie

rossie1977 wrote: »

you are just making stuff up now, how were those players good what did they do to write their names in history, all i remember del horno for was getting sent for against barca.

lets compare them to garcia who scored 5 or was it 6 goals in the knockout stages of the champions league 2005, did kezman do likewise?? garcia also scored in the fa cup semi final in 2006 to help beat chelsea

Cisse scored in the cup final itself to get liverpool straight back in the game after they were getting run-over, thats making a mark, letting the ball under your legs and into the goal is not value.

Cool the jets boss.

I'm not making anything up, or 'writing stuff into history':rolleyes: I am expressing a subjective opnion which you don't agree with, no need to burst a bollox over it.

Also, I never said Kezman was good (are you making stuff up now??) I merely responded to the point you made that they had wasted mony on him, when in fact that they turned a profit. And again, I never said Garcia isn't decent, he was one of Rafa's better buys.

But I still contend that Cisse doesn't cut the mustard in terms of a top 4 team. With there being 3 Championship teams in the FA cup semis its quite likely one of their players may score in an FA cup final. A great achievement, but it doesn't transform them into a world beater.

Charlie

rossie1977 wrote: »

so what ex youth players are currently playing in arsenals first team and please don't mention players developed by the likes of monaco and barcelona

ashley cole is the last guy i remember to make it

As oppossed to fat lad Mellor being liverpool's last one.

Bendtner's shaping up nicley, and Bentley is a product of their system.

Mr Alan

Ciise goal scoring record for us was actually quite impressive iirc.

leave it out on calling Mellor fat!

rossie1977

I'm always cool :cool:

cisse had scored 90 goals in 160 games in france. on the other hand drogba scored 50 goals in 120 games in france. Cisse was more than 3 years younger than drogba, a full france international and available at half the price of the ivory coast international. Hindsight is a great thing but at the time cisse looked better value

rossie1977

charlie mchugh wrote: »

As oppossed to fat lad Mellor being liverpool's last one.

Bendtner's shaping up nicley, and Bentley is a product of their system.

Bendtners development is thanks to Kjøbenhavns Boldklub, they found the guy and developed his skills.

rafa has admitted publicly that liverpools youth policy is not good enough, gone are the days the likes of gerrard, carragher, owen, fowler and mcmanaman would be churned out year after year.

if liverpools youth policy is not good enough where does that leave everyone else seeing as liverpool have won the last two FA youth cups :eek:

rossie1977

speaking of mellor he scored a vital goal in that match against *******kos when all seemed lost at 1-1 and made the famous goal for gerrard to make it 3-1 with a brilliant knock down header to cement his place in anfield history forever

he also happened to score from about 25 yards out against a certain arsenal, i can't remember david bentley doing anything of that value for arsenal, or maybe i am wrong....

Fratton Fred

Mental Mickey wrote: »

Ya could've tried to change the crest on the shorts too?? :rolleyes: Very amateur editing imo.

I think he'd be good at pool along with Torres.............?

it's not editing, it is a genuine photo.:rolleyes:

Charlie

rossie1977 wrote: »

speaking of mellor he scored a vital goal in that match against *******kos when all seemed lost at 1-1 and made the famous goal for gerrard to make it 3-1 with a brilliant knock down header to cement his place in anfield history forever

he also happened to score from about 25 yards out against a certain arsenal, i can't remember david bentley doing anything of that value for arsenal, or maybe i am wrong....

Yeah great, he popped in a goal or two, but are you honestly rating him ahead of Bentley?? If he's som special, how come he's still not playing with Liverpool?

I never understand why people, when discussing football, seem to think that if they can reel of someone scoring the odd goal, that player is infallible to argument.

Evil_Clown

Mr Alan wrote: »

Agreed. Although, without trying to belittle it, they have yet to win anything, and are doing a good job of blowing the league. (FA cup 2005 last thing they won)

I think blowing the league is way too strong a statement
This is a team which at least 4 big selling newspapers had in fifth with top 4 Tottenham in their place at the start of the season
So a team predicted to do nothing, selling their biggest name player and not panic buying a replacment thats currently on top of the league are suddenly blowing the league
Come on now, yes maybe they have lost a few points over the last few weeks but again, come on
Arsenal have done better than even you expected I bet

Mr Alan

they sure have, but their ascent was not totally a suprise, i seem to recall PHB predicting big things from them this season.

gosplan

charlie mchugh wrote: »

Mutu was decent and still is, but was dropped because he was fond of the charlie. They made a profit on Kezman, so no bills squandered there. Ben Haim was a freebie, so again no bills squandered.

Shev was a waste but we all know that purchase wasn't made by a manager, whereas Rafa does decide who he'll sign.

I'll give you Tiago, but I always though Del Horno was decent and surprised he was let go. Certainly racked up some nice Fantasy League points when he was there

Forgot Crespo!!

I'm not talking about money made or lost though. Liverpool fan's can say we made 1m on Garcia, Chelsea, we made a profit on Kezman.

These player's weren't bought to make a profit - they were bought to succeed - ergo, they are failed signings. If they were good signings they would have brought valuable success to the club and there woudl have been no need to go out and replace them.

Basically the fact that Kezman made a profit for Chelsea does not mean you can call him a good signing.

If you're point is that Chelsea have used their money well, I'll add that you're talking about half a billion ... or about 200 million per league title and a bit for each mickey mouse cup.

Not spending well IMO. I'm not saying Rafa does. I'm not even a Liverpool fan but it's insane to suggest in any way that any part of Chelsea's financial model is a good example.

rossie1977

i am not comparing bentley to mellor. if we were to compare then we should only compare both players careers at liverpool and arsenal respectively.

bentley played 10 games for arsenal over 2 seasons and scored 1 goal
mellor played 17 games for liverpool over 2 seasons and scored 6 goals

however the main point is neither were deemed good enough by their respective managers

Third_Echelon

rossie1977 wrote: »

i am not comparing bentley to mellor. if we were to compare then we should only compare both players careers at liverpool and arsenal respectively.

bentley played 10 games for arsenal over 2 seasons and scored 1 goal
mellor played 17 games for liverpool over 2 seasons and scored 6 goals

however the main point is neither were deemed good enough by their respective managers

It was Bentley's decision to move. He submitted a transfer request as he wanted to play first team football and he wasn't going to get that with more senior players ahead of him in the pecking order..

Very same situation with Anthony Stokes. Wenger won't stand in someone's way if they want to leave to pursue their career...

rossie1977

gosplan wrote: »

Forgot Crespo!!

I'm not talking about money made or lost though. Liverpool fan's can say we made 1m on Garcia, Chelsea, we made a profit on Kezman.

These player's weren't bought to make a profit - they were bought to succeed - ergo, they are failed signings. If they were good signings they would have brought valuable success to the club and there woudl have been no need to go out and replace them.

liverpool won a champions league, an fa cup, reached another champions league final, a league cup final and finished 3rd two years in a row ahead of arsenal in garcia's three years at the club and he played a major role in the cup successes

what had liverpool done in the previous 3 years before garcia was signed???

garcia scored 32 goals in 3 years at liverpool despite missing most of last year with a terrible injury. personally i think garcia was a success and the only reason rafa sold him was to sweeten the deal for torres. Torres and garcia in the same side would have been awesome

astrofool

Mr Alan wrote: »

Ciise goal scoring record for us was actually quite impressive iirc.

leave it out on calling Mellor fat!

If it's to do with Liverpool, you'll defend the undefendable (apart from Diouf).

Cisse's only Liverpool legacy was:

POWER DRIVE!

rossie1977

astrofool wrote: »

If it's to do with Liverpool, you'll defend the undefendable (apart from Diouf).

Cisse's only Liverpool legacy was:

POWER DRIVE!

well he will point to 23 goals in 70 games over an injury ravaged 2 seasons (including 17 in his first season) where he was expected to replace liverpool's top scorer of the previous 7 seasons (michael Owen); a champions league medal where he scored in the penalty shoot out, an fa cup medal where he scored in normal time, a supercup medal where he scored both goals.

Mr Alan

top scorer in his last season with us too wasnt he? 18 goals playing out of position iirc

Pepe LeFrits

rossie1977 wrote: »

so what ex youth players are currently playing in arsenals first team and please don't mention players developed by the likes of monaco and barcelona

ashley cole is the last guy i remember to make it

Because that's exactly what he said, isn't it?

This thread is going down the crapper.