Fianna Fail ministers yet again pissing taxpayers money up the wall

Jonny Arson

Ahern defends cost of St Patrick's Day trips
listen Wednesday, 12 March 2008 11:44

The Taoiseach has defended the amount of money spent sending ministers and government officials abroad for St Patrick's Day.

Bertie Ahern told the Dáil a lot of thought is put into deciding where Ministers go, and Ireland is benefiting.

The matter was raised during Leader's Questions by Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny, who asked if any analysis had been done on the the value for money Irish people were getting from the trips.
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RTÉ News has revealed that the trips abroad cost the taxpayer more than €560,000 last year.

The figures, which were obtained under the Freedom of Information Act, also show that more than €90,000 was spent on limousine, taxi and car hire for the delegations.

The biggest cost for a single delegation was Noel Dempsey's trip to the US when he was Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources.

It cost nearly €75,000 for the Minister, his wife and three officials for their trip to California and Texas. Mr Dempsey's flight cost more than €8,100, while chauffeur and car hire cost €19,500.

More than €100,000 was spent on accommodation. Documents show the most expensive was an apartment for Minister Seamus Brennan when he visited Italy. That cost €1,650 per night and was used for two nights.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0312/stpatricks.html

and

Green minister defends €500,000 St Patrick's Day junkets
12/03/2008 - 11:09:32

Communications Minister Eamon Ryan has defended the annual series of foreign trips undertaken by his cabinet colleagues on St Patrick's Day.

Mr Ryan was answering questions from reporters about the more than €500,000 of taxpayers' money that was spent on such trips last year.

The Green Party minister, who is travelling to Paris for two days this year as part of the annual exodus, says it is important that he and colleagues promote Ireland on St Patrick's Day.

Speaking in the Dáil, meanwhile, the Taoiseach also defended the foreign trips, saying they are a valuable marketing opportunity that helps to attract inward investment.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/mhojcwqlqlcw/

so its to Ireland's benefit and most importantly tax payers benefit that Noel Dempsey, his wife and delegated get driven by a chauffeur for €19,500 and Seamus Brennan is nice and comfy is his €1,650 per night plush apartment

they are complete and utter filth, laughing and rubbing it in our faces while defending the indefensible. it's beyond me that 40% of our population were happy to have another 5 years of this crap but to quote one voter i spoke to before ''sure, we would all do the same''.

Scofflaw

It is, as stated, a "valuable marketing opportunity that helps to attract inward investment". Pointing to the above the line expenditure and claiming the money is automatically wasted misses the point entirely - does it bring back more than €0.5m a year in FDI? I would be absolutely amazed if it doesn't.

I'm sure that will generate a vitriolic attack on my "defence" of FF, but it's no such thing - it's a defence of a marketing tactic which has done Ireland a lot of good. It's nothing compared to the money FF have wasted through poor planning and gombeenism - just on the Port Tunnel, even.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Jonny Arson

Scofflaw wrote: »

It is, as stated, a "valuable marketing opportunity that helps to attract inward investment". Pointing to the above the line expenditure and claiming the money is automatically wasted misses the point entirely - does it bring back more than €0.5m a year in FDI? I would be absolutely amazed if it doesn't.

thats not point, no one is saying ministers should never leave the country to attract foreign investment but spending €1,650 per night of our money on an apartment is yet another example of the underlying contempt our ministers have towards the taxpayer. i dont have to spell out the sheer ridiculousness of spending that amount, Seamus Brennan's luxurious sleep aint no marketing tactic for this country. of course its drop in the ocean compared to the millions wasted in health, e-voting etc but every penny matters, it is our money, we deserve accountability and what do we get, more flimsy excuses that only an idiot would fall for. as far as i'm concerned their attitude to wasting money on limos and plush apartments is the same as their attitude to wasting money on the Port Tunnel, its reflective of the arrogance of this government. Eamon Ryan's stance is incredible and as i can recall the same green party laying into FF over wastage and lack of accountability like this. the Greens really have gone to sh!t now.

oh well , okay

I'll take the middle ground and say that while it probably is beneficial to have officials promoting our country abroad it does stick in the craw a bit when these self same officials are ......

Choosing flights with half an eye on the air mile allowance ......

Moaning how they need salary increases because they don't get the perks afforded to other countries politicians .......

Consider taxes to off-set our carbon footprint ......

Think it also helps FF for the opposition to hone in on such an argument drawing attention away from any number of larger issues where much more public money has been wasted .

Victor Meldrew

Jonny Arson wrote: »

yet another example of the underlying contempt our ministers have towards the taxpayer...... of course its drop in the ocean compared to the millions wasted in health, e-voting etc but every penny matters, it is our money, we deserve accountability and what do we get, more flimsy excuses that only an idiot would fall for.

OK, i agree that the "govt" (I'll capitalise the word and spell it in full when they start doing their job) waste our money, but this is the wrong target...

Scofflaw

Victor Meldrew wrote: »

OK, i agree that the "govt" (I'll capitalise the word and spell it in full when they start doing their job) waste our money, but this is the wrong target...

Aye - and yes the apartments are expensive, but Ireland's representatives abroad shouldn't be operating out of fleapits either. There's likely some wastage, but this really isn't a worthwhile use of outrage - particularly since it will be continued under whatever government is in power.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Riskymove

oh well , okay wrote: »

Choosing flights with half an eye on the air mile allowance ......

what's this about?

the cost of the flight is covered, they don't get paid more for travelling further in a plane.

John_C

Whatever about wastage, you can't argue that there's a lack of accountability when we know, to the nearest euro, what Séamus Brennan spent on hiring a flat.

oh well , okay

what's this about?

the cost of the flight is covered, they don't get paid more for travelling further in a plane

True the cost of the flight is covered ( by the tax payer ) but they may pay more for a carrier that gives greater air miles benefits ; for personnal use .

Auditor #9

They kinda maybe have a bit of a point sort of ... First time I half agreed with Ahern justifying himself to Enda. Maybe there is a return on it - the Brand thing...

€1,650 is a bit saucy per night for a hotel though !! - what exactly did Soldier of Destination Seamus Brennan get for that?

Out of principle can they not have some ceiling on their feckin expenditure in matters like this? Noel Dempsey €75,000 for a trip to Texas..? Mother of Jesus. I'd love to see the receipts, Noel. Show me what you got for the money, Noel.

I hope this thread gets revived for next Patrick's Day for more bile.

jmayo

Seeing the calibre of some of our policiticans, sending them abroad is probably more of a deterent to foreign investment than an attraction.

Spend the money on the IDA staff who have done the real work or hire some Irish person that has actually achieved something e.g Denis Brosnan, to be an ambassador for the country and it's potential, but please don't send the gombeens that inherit leinster house.

This government and it's primary party have become accustomed to blowing our money and they don't give two ****s about what we think.

Afterall we as a nation have voted then back in on two occassions, so what do we now expect, that they will suddenly discover ethics ?

Erin Go Brath

Dempsey is taking the piss alright €1650 hotel bill per night, and €75k trip to Texas. Don't know how this can be justified. Nobody expects them to stay in a travelodge, but there has to be some middle ground.

There should be some kind of protest organised for this clear waste of taxpayers money. :mad:

Tea drinker

I could accept maybe up to 100k, but 560k?
No way Jose. Aren't a lot of companies cutting back on "discretionary travel" ? I thought we had a whopping deficit compared to last year - surely some cutbacks required? No?
I fully accept that pressing the flesh could conceivably send a few bob our way. I also think it's a goood gesture to show up for our far flung bretheren on our special drinking day.

But 560k ?????? and we know it's really gonna be more.

BTW, remember that old chestnut about how they wanted CEO salaries etc. What about throwing themselves on the old sword? What about our Health CEO actually taking responsibility for her dept? How can we expect reform of the health service when they are being given this example
/thread hijack over/

Blk150

This is disgusting and another example of why we need new leadership in our nation:mad:

latenia

Of course, Fine Gael or Labour politicians would never go on junkets.

flogen

Blk150 wrote: »

This is disgusting and another example of why we need new leadership in our nation:mad:

Yeah, because if FG, Labour or Sinn Féin were in Government they'd stop these junkets.

Lets be honest about this - this is nothing new and it's nothing that will end soon. It's done by every Government every year and it's derided by every opposition party every year.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, I'm just saying we (the country) have the same bullshít discussion about this every year, the same bullshít wringing of hands and the same defences.

Is anyone going to do anything about it? No. It's the kind of rubbish that cheapens politics.

Auditor #9

Auditor #9 wrote: »

€1,650 is a bit saucy per night for a hotel though !! - what exactly did Soldier of Destination Seamus Brennan get for that?

If you think thats saucy-what about the €8k + flights to the states per person..
I doubt that was the aer lingus sale or economy either.
I don't mind them flying business class but ffs,they could have got a good business class flight return to the states for quarter that money.

What are these eejit's in government departments who actually book the flights thinking of ?? Do they even know what they are doing?

bob2000

Total non issue imo.

Paddys Day is huge worldwide - shows how much recognition we have for such a small country. It would be criminal in my opinion not to try and capitalise on the goodwill.

cast_iron

Deleted User wrote: »

If you think thats saucy-what about the €8k + flights to the states per person..
I doubt that was the aer lingus sale or economy either.

I doubt it also, considering Aerlingus don't fly there. These sort of flights don't come cheap; claiming they do doesn't help your argument. I've often tried to book a flight to NY JFK, with the cheapest fare at €4k for the dates required. Believe it or not, Government ministers on flying midweek 1c specials for Paddy's day representation up to 6000 miles away is not always a viable option.

On a broader point: like other said, it would be no different regardless of which party is in Govt (aren't the Greens in power now?). On the practical side of it, it's hardly the FF hq booking the flights, etc., it's the relevant department - which is broadly composed of the same employees regardless of who's in power, no?

AckwelFoley

Would you rather them fly economy and stay in a hostel?

These are government officials representing our country on out National Day.

You need to have some context when weighing up things like this.

Poor attempt at a cheap shot at Fianna Fail.. as if any other party would differ in the same situatiuon

guinnessdrinker

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

Dempsey is taking the piss alright €1650 hotel bill per night, and €75k trip to Texas. Don't know how this can be justified. Nobody expects them to stay in a travelodge, but there has to be some middle ground.

If those figures are correct there is no way anybody can defend them. It's crazy money for a trip by anyone's standards. (OK maybe not by the Sultan of Brunei's standards but everyone elses!).

Crash

rte wrote:

Documents show the most expensive was an apartment for Minister Seamus Brennan when he visited Italy. That cost €1,650 per night and was used for two nights.

why do I get the feeling that this coming out is the reason that seamus is staying in dublin this year?

Tipsy Mac

I think the point here is that 1 minister, his wife, 3 officials have spent almost twice the average industrial wage of a person in this country on a couple of days away.

I would think that €250k for Paddy's day would be more than enough considering the small number of ministers involved.

jmayo

bob2000 wrote: »

Total non issue imo.

Paddys Day is huge worldwide - shows how much recognition we have for such a small country. It would be criminal in my opinion not to try and capitalise on the goodwill.

Ah so speaks a probable soldier of destiny.
First excuse is it is to try and further the cause of little old Ireland.
We must send out our ministers, their wives, a few hangers on and dpeartment lackies to capitalise on all this goodwill towards leprechauns, shamrock and the pint of the black stuff.

Of course they shouldn't stay in hostels but then again I think most people would find a hotel room cheaper than €1600 a night.
Then we can't have them walking so they need limos.
God we would be shamed if they turned up in normal car.

And if the above excuse doesn't work revert to type and ask if the opposition would be any better :rolleyes:

Everything is a non issue according to some people.
Hell the misdiagnosis in our health system is a non issue.
When will we the people and the goddamm media stop rocking the boat and complaining about our poor put upon government.
We are an awful bunch of ungrateful whingers aren't we :rolleyes:

partholon

the reason they get away with this apparently is because these expenses dont fall under the budget and as such can be as much as they want

frankly thats crap. if theres one thing we KNOW its that every government will bugger off abroad for paddys day. in that light it fecking well should be budgeted.

in regards to the seamus brenan hotel charges i have to ask what the hell he got for 1600 plus a night? its completely over the top. its not like he's gonna bring anyone back to his room on business so its completly unjustifiable.

as someone on the radio commentated " dont we have an embassy in rome? seeing as we own it we should use the spare room! "
which is a fair point. if the idea is to make a good impression the official residence of the embassy is alot more plush than some hotel .

cast_iron

cast_iron wrote: »

I doubt it also, considering Aerlingus don't fly there. These sort of flights don't come cheap; claiming they do doesn't help your argument. I've often tried to book a flight to NY JFK, with the cheapest fare at €4k for the dates required. Believe it or not, Government ministers on flying midweek 1c specials for Paddy's day representation up to 6000 miles away is not always a viable option.

I'd have to disagree with you.You can fly club to most Eastern seaboard U.S cities for less than €2000.It's a lot cheaper than aerlingus premier and a hell of a lot fancier with fully flat bed seats (have a look )
Grant it, you have to book it a minimum 2 weeks in advance but how is that a problem?
A decent quality 5* suite in central Rome would set you back maybe €650 a night complete with a sitting room and seperate bedroom.

Seth Brundle

Where do all the American politicians go during Independence day?
Where do all the French politicians go during Bastielle?
Why shouldn't the worlds elite not come here during the Paddy's festival instead of all of our toerags disappearing to all corners of the earth?

bob2000

"Ah so speaks a probable soldier of destiny.
First excuse is it is to try and further the cause of little old Ireland.
We must send out our ministers, their wives, a few hangers on and dpeartment lackies to capitalise on all this goodwill towards leprechauns, shamrock and the pint of the black stuff."

Of course they shouldn't stay in hostels but then again I think most people would find a hotel room cheaper than €1600 a night.
Then we can't have them walking so they need limos.
God we would be shamed if they turned up in normal car."

First off - wtf is a 'soldier of destiny' ?

Second - we are a small country, paddys day is a huge event worldwide, why shouldn't we capitalise ?

All this petty crap about expensive hotels, limos etc is the sort of nonsense the shinners peddle. If you are looking to create an impression, do you turn up in a ford fiat just to keep the buffoons happy ?

"most people would find a hotel room cheaper"

Yeah, maybe mrs lynch from castlebar (or whoever) could. We are talking about our representatives.

As for 'little old Ireland' - Ireland has moved on, obviously you haven't.

partholon

"soldier of destiny" : its what fianna fail means in english.

jmayo

bob2000 wrote: »

"Ah so speaks a probable soldier of destiny.
First excuse is it is to try and further the cause of little old Ireland.
We must send out our ministers, their wives, a few hangers on and dpeartment lackies to capitalise on all this goodwill towards leprechauns, shamrock and the pint of the black stuff."

Of course they shouldn't stay in hostels but then again I think most people would find a hotel room cheaper than €1600 a night.
Then we can't have them walking so they need limos.
God we would be shamed if they turned up in normal car."

First off - wtf is a 'soldier of destiny' ?

Second - we are a small country, paddys day is a huge event worldwide, why shouldn't we capitalise ?

All this petty crap about expensive hotels, limos etc is the sort of nonsense the shinners peddle. If you are looking to create an impression, do you turn up in a ford fiat just to keep the buffoons happy ?

"most people would find a hotel room cheaper"

Yeah, maybe mrs lynch from castlebar (or whoever) could. We are talking about our representatives.

As for 'little old Ireland' - Ireland has moved on, obviously you haven't.

So if we want some degree of value for our taxes we are buffoons and we are petty.

So if the accountant or financial controller in your place of work wants value for money, becuase it is his job and responsibility, then he is a buffoon ?
If that is your concept then I want to see you push those expenses to accounts next time you go away.
Or better still can I work where you do ?

And there is no need to be condescending towards Castelbar's married women even if they did give the world the flynns

Two words stand out in your message "our representatives".

That means it is you and I that is paying for them to feck off around the world, ride in limos, personally enjoy the air miles that our taxes build up and stay in very very nice accomodation.

It is you that still has this inferiority complex when you feel our representatives must run around and make the big show to impress the outside world.
You also seem to believe every nation comes to a standstill on Paddy's day?

And this year sending a confirmed eejit, mr dick roche, to Bejing is really going to convince the Chineese to set up factories/plants/operations in the much more expensive island of Ireland.
Yeah right :rolleyes:

Auditor #9

What kind of place did Brennan stay in for a grand and a half PER NIGHT tho ? I can't get it out of my head the last few days - I'd love to know how much gold was in that room.

To the people who are dishing out the 1 ¢-flight/hostel accomodation line, I suppose you are just way too relieved that our current administration can now afford such luxury after the leader spending many harrowing years sleeping upstairs in his constituency office where at least he had one private room (he had to share the bathroom with the likes of Ray Burke)

Scofflaw

Auditor #9 wrote: »

What kind of place did Brennan stay in for a grand and a half PER NIGHT tho ? I can't get it out of my head the last few days - I'd love to know how much gold was in that room.

Almost certainly a very large suite, with enough room to host parties - which is the point. Basically a large luxury flat for hosting receptions.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Sierra Oscar

It would be the same figures no matter who was in gov. Its the same ****e we hear from the media every year.

Oilrig

"It would be the same figures no matter who was in gov. Its the same ****e we hear from the media every year."

+ 1

Ridiculous thread, show me evidence of a Gov. that hasn't done the same and I'll take the issue seriously.

Paddy's day is a unique opportunity to network and should be exploited IMHO.

Friggin media...

berliner

Stop moaning about fianna fail,you all voted for them last summer thereby giving them a blank cheque to do what they like.SUCKERS!!!:D

cart man

19 ministers set for overseas travel for St Patrick’s Day

http://www.thejournal.ie/ministers-travel-abroad-st-patricks-day-2013-829930-Mar2013/

nuac

It is a great marketing opportunity for Ireland.

No other country has the same "brand" all over the world. It is right for Ministers to get out there to project a positive image for the country

washman3

nuac wrote: »

It is a great marketing opportunity for Ireland.

No other country has the same "brand" all over the world. It is right for Ministers to get out there to project a positive image for the country

I would be embarrassed to send most of these gombeens anywhere to project anything let alone send them to 'project a positive image'.:mad:

G Power

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

There should be some kind of protest organised for all the clear wastes of taxpayers monies. :mad:

fyp

edit. i just noticed the date of the post i quoted and fixed was from 2008 and it highlighting an issue that still hasn't even begun to be sorted!!

I am now sick with shame for this stupid country to be continuing to swallow all this $hit!!

this will continue on forever unless the people put a top to it by protesting for real

K-9

5 year old thread, feel free to start a new one.