Piracy in the bird world!!

boneless

I'm working up near Kilshane Cross at the moment. Just saw a buzzard take a rabbit and then get driven off the kill by a couple of hooded crows. The hoodies seemed to have had a plan to work to, which makes the whole scene so remarkable. I really feel they have developed this style of "piracy" through constant practice.

Has any one else witnessed this type of behaviour with hoodies?

It wasn't me!

Yeah, a few times, though generally with sparrowhawks and the like, not buzzards.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Very common behaviour. I see it on a weekly basis with our local Buzzards.

boneless

Emiliano Loud Scorer wrote: »

Very common behaviour. I see it on a weekly basis with our local Buzzards.

I have observed it happening to kestrels and sparrowhawks before but this is the first instance I have of a buzzard being driven off food.

Emiliano Loud Scorer, do you think the hoodies in your area work according to a "set piece" approach to the issue?

stevoman

hooded crows/greycrows are the pirates of the bird world all right. No natural predator and they are in great numbers throughout ireland. Not only do the take the prey of slightly endagered species such as the sparrowhawk and buzzard, they also raid the nests of songbirds, pheasents and ducks en masse.

I dare say this on the nature forum, but as an avid hunter i devote my off season weekends to hunting this species and magpies also, as i have said above they have no natural predators and it is good conservationism to keep numbers of these down so as to give other wildlife a chance.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

boneless wrote: »

I have observed it happening to kestrels and sparrowhawks before but this is the first instance I have of a buzzard being driven off food.

Srameen, do you think the hoodies in your area work according to a "set piece" approach to the issue?

It doesn't have to be Hooded Crows, Rooks and Magpies are just as bad.
No, I don't think there is any "set piece" involved.:p It's no different than scua, herring gulls, etc pirating food from puffins and other seabirds. It's just natural instinct at work.

gerky

I'm not looking to start an argument on the merits of shooting/trapping crow but there is very little evidence that the crow family have any real impact on songbird population and I think people should know that, I don't agree with blackening an animal when their not the real problem.

This is from The Royal Society for the Protection of Birds and they along with the vast majority of bird groups agree that modern human practices are more then likely the reason for the huge decline.

RSPB wrote:

Most British members of the crow family (including magpies) will take eggs and nestlings. This can be upsetting to witness but it is completely natural. However, some people are concerned that there may be a long-term effect on songbird populations.

Many of the UKs commonest songbirds have declined during the last 25 years, at a time when populations of magpies increased. To find out why songbirds are in trouble, the RSPB has undertaken intensive research on species such as the skylark and song thrush. To discover whether magpies (or sparrowhawks) could be to blame for the decline, the RSPB commissioned the British Trust for Ornithology (BTO) to analyse its 35 years of bird monitoring records.

The study found that songbird numbers were no different in places where there were many magpies or sparrowhawks from where there are few. It found no evidence that increased numbers of magpies have caused declines in songbirds and confirms that populations of prey species are not determined by the numbers of their predators. It is the availability of food and suitable places in which to nest that decide the population.

Having discounted predation as a possible factor, the RSPB continues to study the loss of food and habitats caused by intensive farming. The change from spring to autumn sowing and the increase in the use of agricultural chemicals have reduced the amount of insects and weed seeds available for songbirds to eat.

These changes, and others, including the removal of hedgerows which are used for nesting, roosting and feeding sites by some birds, have played a part in the severe declines in many of our farmland species.

Many people are concerned that the use of some garden chemicals may also remove the birds natural food supply, and may be a problem when they are raising their young. If you are worried about garden chemicals, please write to the Henry Doubleday Research Association, at the National Centre for Organic Gardening, Ryton on Dunsmore, Coventry CV8 3LG, who will advice you on alternative methods of pest control.

As regards piracy I've seen it happen a good few times with several different kinds of birds, about two weeks ago I saw a rook take something from a sparrow hawk but he fought back and got it back.

boneless

I was just taken aback at the way it was done...:D Real cheeky and sneaky attacks from behind (I should have pointed out that the buzzard was on the ground all the time) to distract the raptor and sneaky forages into the front while he was distracted. I watched the encounter for ten minutes and in all that time the four hoodies kept the buzzard in the one spot on the field.

gerky

Yea animal ingenuity always impresses me, like the chaffinches around my place that have learned to hang and eat of the peanut feeders.

flanum

As regards corvids chasing sparrowhawks in the air, has anybody else heard this referred to as a "crow-court"?

artieanna

Last summer I saw sparrowhawk getting picked on mid air by crows... Talk about a pack of thugs:eek:

Tea drinker

NOt seen the piracy thing but have seen crows gang up on one crow.
Basically one was on his back flapping his wings and the others were knocking the sheet out of him. I think it's a crows jury or something like that.

meathstevie

Anyone who thinks magpies and jackdaws don't do away with vast quantities of otherwise viable broods needs to go and observe a couple of hedgerows in spring. Agreed, farming practices have had a serious impact but that doesn't take away from the fact that serious control of crow ( specifically magpie, grey crow and jackdaws ) populations benefits other birds. Crows are not as dependant on typical food supplies as are other birds ( they'll scavenge anything ) and they have no natural predators so it can't be argued that population control doesn't benefit other wildlife sensitive to predation by crows.

gerky

meathstevie wrote: »

Anyone who thinks magpies and jackdaws don't do away with vast quantities of otherwise viable broods needs to go and observe a couple of hedgerows in spring. Agreed, farming practices have had a serious impact but that doesn't take away from the fact that serious control of crow ( specifically magpie, grey crow and jackdaws ) populations benefits other birds. Crows are not as dependant on typical food supplies as are other birds ( they'll scavenge anything ) and they have no natural predators so it can't be argued that population control doesn't benefit other wildlife sensitive to predation by crows.

I'm not saying they don't eat eggs/hatchlings in the few weeks of raring their young I've seen it myself and it may not be pleasant but lots of things in nature aren't, but they are not behind the huge decline in several types of birds.

So you think you an avid hunter knows better then dedicated bird organizations like RSPB or BWI.

Apart from the fact that several hunters in my area openly admit the main reason they kill crow is that they enjoy it and so theres less chance they'll take game eggs/hatchlings that they intend to shoot themselves later in the year.
How is it that in less developed country's like the newer EU members there's still very healthy population of songbirds.

meathstevie

Don't get me wrong Gerky. Habitat loss is something that's happened and is most likely irretrievable in most cases and the likes of magpies, greys and jackdaws seem to be a lot less sensitive to it. The point I'm making is that it's plain nonsense to believe that serious crow control makes no difference to song bird numbers.

Put it this way, don't you think a couple of cage trap for magpies and crows in let's say St Anne's park in Raheny/Clontarf would have an influence on the number of song birds in the area ?

gerky

I been through this already, studies show that the relation in numbers between predatory birds and songbirds don’t match up.
One of the larger studies done was commissioned by the RSPB it involved 35 years of records and believe me that is a hell of a lot of information.
Also a lot of the damage done is reversible if people would try and do their bit.

My best advice to anyone wanting to help songbirds is to make your garden/land as friendly to them as possible,
provide the type of cover they need to nest and forage even think about getting nesting boxes,
Try not to use chemicals on your lawn/land as that may affect their food source,
Feed the birds,
If you’re a farmer change your style of farming to a more wildlife friendly way,
There’s lots of other info on the net.

meathstevie

That's exactly what's happening in my little measly patch of a garden. Feeders out in a birch tree all winter and into late spring with a variety of nuts and seeds, the collection and variety of songbirds coming in for a feed is just brilliant.

The REPS scheme or however you spell the acronym is supposed to give farmers grants for doing exactly what you're talking about. Problem is that modern farming techniques don't really go hand in hand with this and for a lot of farmers who want to stay in business it's really a matter of do or die when it comes to squeezing maximum efficiency from their land. It be just brilliant if a farmer could be genuinely assisted to leave let's say 1% of his land in some less productive spot to be planted with low trees and shrubs and a good mix of suitable high yield seed carrying plants.

gerky

There is part of the reps that covers leaving a section unused, its just a pity that a lot of people won't do anything much unless theres something in it for them.
I would hope a lot more farmers turn to organic producing as theres more money in it for them and its a lot more sustainable and environmentally friendly.