Kerry's Gombeen Cllrs Strike Again

ballooba

This time they are opposing the reduction of the blood alcohol limit for drivers. They want people in rural aeas to be able to drink drive within certain limits. Toireasea Ferris, god bless her, quite rightly pointed out that the opposing councillors were involved in the licensed trade. Of course this motion means nothing because these councillors have no powers in this regard. It shows how detached from reality these muppets really are though.

This quote is classic:

Irish Times wrote:

"It's not a problem inside the Pale. People living in large urban areas don't understand that. But rural isolation is a very, very big problem here," Cllr O'Connell said.

I guess we never will understand what goes on inside your head Cllr O'Connell. Maybe one day there wil be a field of science dedicated to understanding politicians from your corner of the world.

Full Story: http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/0312/1205104652633.html

The_Minister

I completely disagree with this, but you have to be fair, they have a point.

It is impossible to have a public transport system in the country (scattered population etc), so they have to rely on public transport. And, since the pub plays a gigantic role in the social life of the country (there isn't much else for a 60 year old retiree to do), if they can't drink anything, then many old people will have no social outlet to meet others.

The incredibly strict drink-driving limits (the lowest of which are not IMO based on real evidence), are going to destroy country life for many of the older generation.

Its a price that I think can be paid, but to ignore the reality is insulting to all those people.


EDIT: And that councillor is completely right Ballooba, its not a problem in the city, because we have public transport and taxis. If you listen to what he seems to be saying, its not really that OTT.

bob2000

I don't have much time for Ferris, but in fairness, she is right.

The whole transport system in this country was developed around the car. Even in Dublin, public transport is inadequate - in parts of the country, it is non-existent. I am a dub, but I can see where these people are coming from.

They can't just grab a taxi - what exactly are they supposed to do - sit & rot ?

I'd love to know how many accidents are caused by farmers from isolated rural areas on their way home after a few.

ballooba

These councillors are the same people who are criticising the city slickers for clamping down on one-off housing. All because the city folk don't understand rural living. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realise that one-off housing is a contributing factor to rural isolation. Allowing auld fellas a carte blanche to drive around with drink on them is not a solution to the problem presented. Nor is allowing more one-off housing.

Riskymove

I heard this discussion and they kept going on about how rural people are isolated...can't go out...can't socialise...never see anyone etc...etc....because they can't drink and drive...


I kept wanting to ask things like:

1. Why can't they go to pub, meet friends, discuss issues etc and just not drink alcohol???? better than being isolated...lonely...etc

2. why can't a few get together and take turns and one be designated driver??

and so on.....

bob2000

Those councillors approve one-off housing cos it gets them votes, simple as.
Only way around it would be to take the facility away from them.

I'm talking about old people living in isolated locations - for years & years they were able to live their lives, go for pints, Now they're f**ked. Should they be compensated ?

ballooba

bob2000 wrote: »

Those councillors approve one-off housing cos it gets them votes, simple as.
Only way around it would be to take the facility away from them.

They have no such powers. Even if they claim too. They shouldn't be advocating such irresponsible planning though.

bob2000 wrote: »

I'm talking about old people living in isolated locations - for years & years they were able to live their lives, go for pints, Now they're f**ked. Should they be compensated ?

I'm not suggesting they should be neglected. I'm saying drink driving laws should apply to them the same as everyone else. The idea that one or two drinks is acceptable is wrong. People should not be drinking and driving. These politicians should be providing leadership rather than looking after their own vested interests.

El Stuntman

ballooba wrote: »

I'm not suggesting they should be neglected. I'm saying drink driving laws should apply to them the same as everyone else. The idea that one or two drinks is acceptable is wrong. People should not be drinking and driving. These politicians should be providing leadership rather than looking after their own vested interests.

welcome to Ireland, the place where tax laws are applied ferociously by Finance Ministers, except to errr...themselves and their buddies

unless we ever move to a list system for elections, this is the way it always will be - short-sighted local imbyism overriding the national interest

bob2000

"I'm saying drink driving laws should apply to them the same as everyone else."

Even though they don't have the same transport facilities as everyone else ?

The suggestion that these guys living 10 miles up a dirt track should club together with their mates - any recollection of the furore when the government wanted to crack down on learner drivers ?

boo hoo ...We won't be able to get to work, I wouldn't have bought a house here if someone had told me this might happen......etc etc etc etc

They could've clubbed together with more ease you would have thought.

How many accidents caused by Learner drivers I wonder ?

Result - law put back.

Applying the same rule to a kid driving around dublin city centre as an old guy driving in the middle of nowhere is nuts.

El Stuntman

bob2000 wrote: »

Applying the same rule to a kid driving around dublin city centre as an old guy driving in the middle of nowhere is nuts.

everyone is supposed to be equal before the law, no?

surely this means that the law must be applied equally

if you're over the limit, you're over. Personal responsibility is what it boils down to. People have been abusing the system for years and now that the gardai are belatedly providing some (by no means enough) level of enforcement, they go crying to their TDS and councillors to make sure the law doesn't apply to them.

Rural isolation me arse. What do they do in outback Australia - another country with a strong pub tradition?

purple'n'gold

El Stuntman wrote: »

welcome to Ireland, the place where tax laws are applied ferociously by Finance Ministers, except to errr...themselves and their buddies

unless we ever move to a list system for elections, this is the way it always will be - short-sighted local imbyism overriding the national interest

There will be no list systems here. This is Ireland and if you want to get yourself elected to the county council you have to get yourself enough votes through the proportional representation system. If the gombeen man can get enough votes I can’t see why an honest, upright, educated, incorruptible citizen can’t. All you have to do is tell lies as fast as you can make them up before the election. Then acquire amnesia when you are elected. Of course then you cease to be honest and upright. Oh well.

ballooba

bob2000 wrote: »

Even though they don't have the same transport facilities as everyone else ?

It's up to these councillors to provide those facilities. That is a function of local government if I am not mistaken. Rather than meddling in national politics which is not part of their mandate.

bob2000 wrote: »

The suggestion that these guys living 10 miles up a dirt track should club together with their mates - any recollection of the furore when the government wanted to crack down on learner drivers ?

boo hoo ...We won't be able to get to work, I wouldn't have bought a house here if someone had told me this might happen......etc etc etc etc

They could've clubbed together with more ease you would have thought.

How many accidents caused by Learner drivers I wonder ?

Result - law put back.

Applying the same rule to a kid driving around dublin city centre as an old guy driving in the middle of nowhere is nuts.

The change with respect to learner drivers was not scrapped, it was postponed. It was never supposed to be implemented immediately. Noel Dempsey orchestrated the episode to distract from other problems, much to the surprise of the RSA. That is an issue for another thread.

Mr.Micro

Is this the stupid attitude that we Irish are famous or infamous for? Dont drink and drive period. If the idiots in Kerry think that they should be an exception, they are not. Get around it, arrange transport or lifts , sharing, whatever instead of trying to dilute the law. Public transport might be scarce in rural areas, but there are more cars in Ireland than ever. No excuse to drink and drive. Alcohol is so important?

El Stuntman

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Is this the stupid attitude that we Irish are famous or infamous for? Dont drink and drive period. If the idiots in Kerry think that they should be an exception, they are not. Get around it, arrange transport or lifts , sharing, whatever instead of trying to dilute the law. Public transport might be scarce in rural areas, but there are more cars in Ireland than ever. No excuse to drink and drive. Alcohol is so important?

Mr Micro I would like to immediately appoint you as Garda Commissioner and Minister for Justice (combined portfolio)

oh wait, you're disbarred on account of having some cop on

bob2000

"Alcohol is so important?"

Generally what people go to pubs for I think you'll find.

hugejeans

El Stuntman wrote: »

Rural isolation me arse. What do they do in outback Australia - another country with a strong pub tradition?

They get p1ssed and drive home!!:D

Mr.Micro

El Stuntman wrote: »

Mr Micro I would like to immediately appoint you as Garda Commissioner and Minister for Justice (combined portfolio)

oh wait, you're disbarred on account of having some cop on

Thank you El Stuntman, I am honoured to receive your nomination.

ballooba

hugejeans wrote: »

They get p1ssed and drive home!!:D

Probably. They probably get in accidents too. Drink Driving is acceptable in many US cities and states. It doesn't make it right.

El Stuntman

hugejeans wrote: »

They get p1ssed and drive home!!:D

actually they don't, read this

hugejeans

El Stuntman wrote: »

actually they don't, read this

Victoria doesn't have an outback!!

And I know they do, I was living there last year and was amazed at the amount some people drank and then drove home in the cities never mind the outback!

Having said that, they were starting to clamp down on it.

El Stuntman

hugejeans wrote: »

Victoria doesn't have an outback!!

And I know they do, I was living there last year and was amazed at the amount some people drank and then drove home in the cities never mind the outback!

Having said that, they were starting to clamp down on it.

here's an extract from the report; bear in mind that the population of Victoria is about the same as that of Ireland

Enforcement
As part of the overall integrated strategy, TAC has funded the development and supply of enforcement equipment designed to complement its education initiatives.

Examples include:

a fleet of 13 mobile "booze buses", each with the capacity to test 1,500 drivers per eight hour shift. TAC has also provided funding to assist in the staffing of the buses;
60 speed cameras;
150 "new generation" evidential breath testing units;
roof mounted car signs, enabling individual patrol cars to act as highly visible random breath testers and
mobile radar speed testing equipment.

RESULTS
The strategy is proving highly successful. In five years Victoria's road toll has halved and serious injuries have fallen 40%. Last year's road toll of 378 was the lowest since records were first kept almost 50 years ago, with 1992's and 1993's the second and third lowest respectively.

In fact, Victoria's road safety record now leads the world. The internationally recognised measure of road safety is deaths per 10,000 vehicles - Victoria's rate of 1.4 is one of the lowest, if not the lowest, of any major developed community.

During the past five and a half years, TAC has invested $145 million in accident prevention initiatives. Based on 1989 road trauma statistics, that investment is estimated to have saved TAC $500 million in accident compensation and benefit payments. When broader costs to the community are taken into account, the savings climb to about $1.5 billion.

REDUCTION IN DRINK DRIVING
One of the areas where Victoria's road safety strategy has been most successfully applied is in reducing the incidence of drink driving in Victoria.

In 1989, 113 of all drivers and riders killed recorded a blood alcohol concentration (BAC) above .05%. By 1994, that figure had fallen to 50. Five years ago, about one in every 255 drivers tested were over the legal limit, while today the ratio is about 1:700.

The success of the drink/driving campaign was both significant and immediate.

hugejeans

does that mention anything about rural Victoria?

El Stuntman

hugejeans wrote: »

does that mention anything about rural Victoria?

clever people that they are, they don't differentiate between rural and urban when it comes to enforcing the law

and neither should we

lostexpectation

did anyone see mary white on Q&A a couple of weeks ago,

"and this is rural issue too" she says after each question, rural rural lural ralrul...ualauralaurlalrualruarlalra...

I see Ahern said he wanted to restrict below cost selling of alcohol, I hope they ban it outright.
although the minister said that it would mean stronger import drinks would end up being cheaper,

also suggesting cutting down our already woeful nightclub hours, I think they should only cut the hours of the nightclubs that play crap music and leave the good music and djs nightclubs open longer.

tsk the report isn't coming out for another three weeks... hurry up


http://www.examiner.ie/irishexaminer/pages/story.aspx-qqqg=ireland-qqqm=ireland-qqqa=ireland-qqqid=57470-qqqx=1.asp
crappy irish examiner link that will break in a couple of days

http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=IRELAND-qqqs=news-qqqid=31131-qqqx=1.asp

gurramok

Speaking of booze cruises, what happened to the rural booze cruises that was proposed in rural areas when the garda clampdown started over a year ago?

Always thought that the likes of Kerry rural have no excuse now as the taxpayer funded booze buses are there for them to bring them home after a few??

ballooba

Solutions like booze buses are all well and good for the moment but are urban dwellers expected to continue to subsidise transport for rural dwellers while gombeen councillors continue to campaign for more one-off housing. These people talk about the challenges unique to living the rural lifestyle while they are the very ones causing these problems.

partholon

phf! are there any gardai down the country anyway? people will do what they'll always do when they cop on theres no enforcement.

playing devils advocate though i'd love to know how many people died as a result of having one pint consumed and if any level of alcohol is unacceptable when'll we start prosecuting people whove taken strepstils or used mouth wash in the morning?

im all for responsible behaviour but to say theres no difference between two pints and twelve is fecking stupid and flies in the face of percieved knowledge

jmayo

I used to actually believe that an ould fellow going for a few and driving his tractor home was not so bad, until I was faced with oncoming 100hp tractor weaving all over the road driven by a drunk eejit.
You just sit there and hope he misses you :eek:

Yes there should be one law for everyone and living in rural Ireland is not excuse for drink driving of any sort, but could the South Dublinities please stop using this as excuse to ban one off housing in rural Ireland.
Most of the people living remotely using the pub as social center of sorts, that the ones in Kerry and other parts of Ireland are talking about, live in homes that were probably built 40 plus years ago and not some effing southfork lookalike that are now been built.
There is a place for one off housing, but like everything it should be controlled and the houses should not be modelled on US tv shows.

PS a lot of the one off houses built in my area are bought by ex-pats retiring and Dubs moving out of the big smoke or looking for weekend getaway down with the culchies.

To answer Partholon most of the rural garda stations are 10-4 jobs with a little intercomm box by the door in case of emergency, yeah great help.
The guards usually patrol the larger roads and mount their speedtraps there, since better chance of revenue gathering.

ballooba

partholon wrote: »

im all for responsible behaviour but to say theres no difference between two pints and twelve is fecking stupid and flies in the face of percieved knowledge

There have been studies on the impairment caused by two pints. If we are to set a threshold it should be zero. It makes it a lot clearer where we all stand. I'm working with Polish guys at the moment and they were shocked to hear we have 0.8 limit. They have 0.2 limit.

partholon

that would get you locked up on cough medicine.

partholon

jmayo wrote: »

To answer Partholon most of the rural garda stations are 10-4 jobs with a little intercomm box by the door in case of emergency, yeah great help.
The guards usually patrol the larger roads and mount their speedtraps there, since better chance of revenue gathering.

i seem to remember years ago ,when there was a spate of roberies down the country by gangs driving down from limerick and dublin, one or two old biddies ringing radio shows saying their gardai station shuts down at night and theyre left with a glorified answering machine which basically said theyd get to them when they could get around to it.

called a "green box" or something?

hardly inspires feelings of safety.