Proof that Publicans are architects of own destruction

ballooba

The publicans keep blaming the smoking ban and more recently the drink driving clampdown for the fall off in the licensed trade. The dogs on the street know that the real reason for this is the greed of publicans who persistently increased their prices to unreasonable levels. The reason that people are not frequenting pubs is that it is just too expensive. This chap in Southill has set up a thriving shebeen selling pints at 3 euro a pop. Of course I'm sure smoking is allowed. Is it really a motivating factor in choosing this over a licensed premises though?

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/its-sitting-room-only-at-illegal-home-pub-1314088.html

El Stuntman

fair play to him

not sure that I would want to enter a shebeen in O'Malley Park though

ballooba

El Stuntman wrote: »

fair play to him

not sure that I would want to enter a shebeen in O'Malley Park though

Quite likely that being barred from other licensed premises is a motivator also.

Auditor #9

Fair dues - isn't he just having a party and enjoying himself every night and having the neighbours around for a few jars?

The pub used to be a place where you went for a few jars and a chat but people don't seem to be doing it as much now. Drink is supposed to be the cheapest it has ever been relative to earnings (maybe that's not pub-bought drink though) so that can't be the fault.

Or did we just come through a demographic trough where a lot of Generation X had stopped going to the pub but are now returning?

ballooba

I had a quick look on the CSO website. The cost of take home is falling whereas the cost of a pint is rising.
National Average Price (Euro) by Month and Consumer Item

Lager |Can|Pint
2001M12|1.921|3.373
2002M12|1.783|3.619
2003M12|1.715|3.807
2004M12|1.732|3.913
2005M12|1.725|3.982
2006M12|1.638|4.099
2007M12|1.688|4.260

Edit: Actually the cost of take home has been increasing recently.

Akrasia

If I go to the pub with my girlfriend it would cost me a tenner for 2 drinks. If i go to the off license, I can get 2 drinks for 2 euros.

Blk150

Akrasia wrote: »

If I go to the pub with my girlfriend it would cost me a tenner for 2 drinks. If i go to the off license, I can get 2 drinks for 2 euros.

+1.I never bring my bird out anymore:D

the_syco

Look at how much a barman and lounge staff got paid then compared to now. Also factor in the free DJ at some pubs.

gurramok

If memory serves me correctly, 2004 was the peak of the pub prices until maybe 2006 or so.

I remember being in a run of the mill pub in Blanch in late 2004, they charged €5.20 for a pint of Heineken after 10pm and the reaction amongst workmates was one of shock and nearly constant abuse of lounge staff for the price!
Back then, to charge over a fiver for a pint of lager in your average non-posh pub was unheard of, the pints were starting to hit the fiver level everywhere by greedy publicans.
Then after, the prices i noticed came down by about 30c due to falling demand(for lager) until maybe late 2005 and started going up again while off-licence prices plummeted.

A recent example is Haddington rd in D4. One pub can charge €3.80 for a pint of guinness while another 20secs walk away charges €4.40, 60c difference (daytime prices), explain that one Mr. Greedy publican! :mad:

Ballooba 's chart shows whats wrong with pubs, the bloody prices.

ballooba

the_syco wrote: »

Look at how much a barman and lounge staff got paid then compared to now. Also factor in the free DJ at some pubs.

If the increases were in line with wage inflation then there would be no problem. I'll see if I can find actual prices to compare against average industrial wage.

Edit (found it):

Buying power in Cans & Pints by Year:

Year | Cans | Pints | Average Weekly Earnings
2001M12 | 291| 166| 559
2002M12 | 331| 163| 590
2003M12 | 366| 165| 628
2004M12 | 380| 168| 659
2005M12 | 397| 172| 684
2006M12 | 431| 172| 706

I'm actually surprised by this. It looks like the publicans are actually under intense pressure from the off trade. Our buying power in off-licences has increased dramatically whereas our buying power in pubs has remained relatively static.

El Stuntman

apart from publicans facing into a slightly less prosperous future, what's the problem?

less drinking is surely good from a macro perspective

ballooba

El Stuntman wrote: »

apart from publicans facing into a slightly less prosperous future, what's the problem?

less drinking is surely good from a macro perspective

The rural isolation problem is a serious one. Even though our rural politicians are compunding this with their gombeenism. Perhaps these communities should be allowed have their own shebeen type arrangements. With the right regulation these could work.

SeanW

Anyone remember Michael McDowell's Cafe Bars?

ballooba

SeanW wrote: »

Anyone remember Michael McDowell's Cafe Bars?

A move away from superpubs can only be a good thing in my view. I never understand why Irish people herd themselves into the most uncomfortably packed spaces possible. I've never seen it in other cultures.

El Stuntman

ballooba wrote: »

The rural isolation problem is a serious one. Even though our rural politicians are compunding this with their gombeenism. Perhaps these communities should be allowed have their own shebeen type arrangements. With the right regulation these could work.

sure, why not?

let the rural communities use their own heads and resources and devise their own solutions that don't involve breaking the laws of the State.

But please, for the love of God, no State handouts

partholon

the_syco wrote: »

Look at how much a barman and lounge staff got paid then compared to now. Also factor in the free DJ at some pubs.

who the fcuk wants a DJ?

seriously, i avoid one of my locals on the sunday because the feckers keep trying to deafen me with ****e music. im here for a pint and to talk to me mates. if i want music i'll go to a club! stick a bleedin radio on in the back round instead.

i have to agree with the OP. its greed thats killed the pub trade so i dont buy this nonsense about bar men and lounge staff wages. its 4.60 for a pint of coors in my local and i can buy a can for 1.80. if they marked it up to 3.80 i could justify it but 4.60 is taking the piss. and i dont live in the city centre. how the fcuk do pubs there thatve been owned for decades justify 5.40 a pint? new ones with massive overheads i can understand but thats not the case for most of em.

its simple economics, price yourself out of the market and you go out of business. i can see more and more people doing what that lad in southill is doing. hell most people drink at a friends gaff before going out now anyway so its not a huge leap to set up your own bar and "ask for donations" . ive said it before, its the protected nature of the publicans trade thats keeping the pint this expensive.

deregulate the whole sector and let anyone who has the infrastructure flog beer and see what happens then to the price. hell we could do this by simply allowing anyone from an EU country move their pub liscence here and compete.

EDIT. must say ive never heard the term shebeen before either, anyone know where it came from?

ballooba

partholon wrote: »

EDIT. must say ive never heard the term shebeen before either, anyone know where it came from?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shebeen

flogen

ballooba wrote: »

The rural isolation problem is a serious one. Even though our rural politicians are compunding this with their gombeenism. Perhaps these communities should be allowed have their own shebeen type arrangements. With the right regulation these could work.

I find the rural isolation argument hard to swallow, to be honest - at least when it's used by landlords.

Sure, if a pub closes in a rural area then a social-interaction point is lost. But if these people are really going to the pub for a bit of banter above all else then why don't they just have some soft drinks instead?

That way they won't have to worry about the drive home and the landlord will make a killing (look at the mark up on a coke in a bar!).

Some may think I'm being a bit silly making this point but I'm deadly serious. If you want to go out and see your friends then you have to make the choice - drive or drink.

If someone isn't interesting in socialising unless they can drink too then they should probably take a look at themselves - I'm certainly not going to give them sympathy or agree that the law shouldn't apply to them just because they don't know the difference between socialising and drinking.

Rural isolation is an issue but it's really nothing to do with pubs and alcohol; at least it shouldn't be. That said, I live in Dublin and I struggle to think of anything I can do with a group of friends that doesn't involve going to a bar - I can only imagine how much harder it would be in a rural area.

Either way, landlords using rural isolation as a reason to give them an easier time boils my blood. Look at the facts:

Landlords blamed the smoking ban for a drop in trade even though sales had been dropping for six years previous before the ban was introduced.

Landlords blamed the drink-driving clampdown for a drop in trade and basically said people should be allowed to drive home drunk as long as they could make some money out of it. They decided to ignore the fact that you can still go to a pub and not drink alcohol - as odd as that may seem to some.

Landlords blame any tax-rise on their rising prices but omit the profit margin they make per pint.

I've no sympathy for landlords going out of business because their customers are forced to obey the law. Rural isolation is something that needs to be dealt with but it doesn't have to centre around the pub.

ballooba

Oh dear. I got mixed up between two threads and dragged the rural isolation one into this thread. D'oh! Sorry Mods. From post 11 it's all gone wrong.

Seth Brundle

Akrasia wrote: »

If I go to the pub with my girlfriend it would cost me a tenner for 2 drinks. If i go to the off license, I can get 2 drinks for 2 euros.

Stell FTW!

Blk150 wrote: »

+1.I never bring my bird out anymore:D

Scared the wife might find out?

partholon wrote: »

who the fcuk wants a DJ?

People drink more when they talk less. If you are listening to all that shíte they play then chances are that you can't hold a proper conversation.
Also younger people tend to go for that type of atmosphere and they are the ones likely to drink more and what they drink tends to be more expensive (hence more profit?)

ballooba

kbannon wrote: »

People drink more when they talk less. If you are listening to all that shíte they play then chances are that you can't hold a proper conversation.
Also younger people tend to go for that type of atmosphere and they are the ones likely to drink more and what they drink tends to be more expensive (hence more profit?)

Publicans also need to realise that people drink less when they can't get to the bar. Does packing the place out to dangerous levels really increase sales?

partholon

indeed. one of my locals was subjected to that nonsense by a new manager that was only interest in money. he kept packing the place to the rafters, i even had to go to the toilet once just to cool down and i never seen so many fights in my life. it eventually got sorted when the fire marshal turned up for the third time and told em if he didnt keep to the health and saftey leglislation his lisence was gone. suffice to say the place got ran into the ground. to this day its lost all its locals. such is the price of muppetry management

in regards to the music thing it seems to be emblematic of the dumbass mentality publicans seem to be afflicted with. i wont "drink more if i cant hear my friends", ill bugger off to a pub that doesnt play loud music.

aidan24326

partholon wrote: »

in regards to the music thing it seems to be emblematic of the dumbass mentality publicans seem to be afflicted with. i wont "drink more if i cant hear my friends", ill bugger off to a pub that doesnt play loud music.

Very true. It baffles me why some pubs insist on playing music so loud that you can't even hear yourself think never mind have a conversation. It makes no sense.

Overall I agree with the general consensus that the publicans are shooting themselves in the foot with their shameless greed. Like someone else mentioned there's well established city centre pubs who are charging outrageous prices with no justification for it. Just total greed. Prices going up after 7 and again after 11 in certain Temple Bar pubs. It's not just Temple Bar though it's everywhere in the city centre now.

Though it's mainly the rural pub trade that is deteriorating, and this is largely due to the clampdown on drink driveing (nowt to do with the smoking ban). From what I can see the pubs in Dublin city are still cleaning up. Same in Galway aswell.

the_syco

flogen wrote: »

That said, I live in Dublin and I struggle to think of anything I can do with a group of friends that doesn't involve going to a bar - I can only imagine how much harder it would be in a rural area.

You do realise that you've shot yourself in the foot with that pint?

flogen wrote: »

Rural isolation is something that needs to be dealt with but it doesn't have to centre around the pub.

In most rural areas I've been to, the old folk have two places to goto. The church (and church related activities) and the pub.