First with the news:Tara protesters to be removed

Silverfish

Sellphone wrote: »

If you think about, had the planners/road builders et al, given way to all the objections down the years and side stepped the roads because of a fairy tree there, and a magic hill over there, the roads would all be like cork screws. Imagine, the road to Galway would have gone via Wexford, up through Laois , over by Leitrim and back down to Galway! As has been said already, the local people want it, the planners want , commuters/motorists want it, seems only ones that don't are the Crusties!:D

Well, to be honest, I don't want it, neither does the rest of my family. There's a flyover going right beside our house, and the road behind it, whereas before we were surrounded on 3 sides by woods. We didn't want it, it happened anyway, things change, **** happens.

However, this crowd of protesters are the greatest waste of time and money I've ever seen in my life. Just in it for the drama. Sooner they all clear off, the better.

It wasn't me!

GerryRyan wrote: »

How high and mighty of you to wish death on someone you don't even know

...

I really hope you meet your end long before this protestor does - and I stand by it

Hypocrite. And good work on spotting some tongue in cheek there. That said, I really do believe it's time to deal with them harshly.

She and her scummy mates have decided to hold an entire country to ransom for their cause. **** them. **** them hard.

Dudess

GerryRyan wrote: »

Wow, just wow - in my time on here I've never been as sickened by a single post like that. How high and mighty of you to wish death on someone you don't even know, someone already suffering for a cause they believe in ... I don't agree with their cause (or methods) but that's what it's come to.

When was the last time you stood up for any person/place or thing, just out of curiosity? If you ever bothered to do this - was it met with the same hostility you've shown this girl?

Does it make you feel powerful talking about a life so passively over an anon message board? Are you that pathetic?

I really hope you meet your end long before this protestor does - and I stand by it

Out of order. Do not do it again.

And the oh-so-tough anti-hippy brigade can also stop flexing their macho muscles and start posting decent, reasoned contributions rather than trying to be as nasty as they possibly can be.

Sellphone

Silverfish wrote: »

Well, to be honest, I don't want it, neither does the rest of my family. There's a flyover going right beside our house, and the road behind it, whereas before we were surrounded on 3 sides by woods. We didn't want it, it happened anyway, things change, **** happens.

However, this crowd of protesters are the greatest waste of time and money I've ever seen in my life. Just in it for the drama. Sooner they all clear off, the better.

Sorry to hear that Silverfish, someone will always suffer, pity it has to be you on this occasion. Sounds idyllic there. I live in North county Dublin, very rural but only 15 mins from airport and our big fear is, a motorway or some massive development. We escaped the new prison though bt a good few miles.;)

FlutterinBantam

Dudess wrote: »

Out of order. Do not do it again.

And the oh-so-tough anti-hippy brigade can also stop flexing their macho muscles and start posting decent, reasoned contributions rather than trying to be as nasty as they possibly can be.

Hey...nice tight no nonsense snappy to the point response.




Respect!!

MySelf56

I don’t agree with whole protest and blackmailing govt. Because they filed case against construction in that site court and the court disagree. Matter of fact highest law maker in the country him self roaming around courts. So as the law in the land for better or worst one should obey that.

Having said that I don’t think by constructing motorway will vanishes the traffic chaos in over night. It ultimately clogs up M50. Then what are we going to do, make M50 10 line highway?

The only beneficiary from this fiasco is big construction companies.

Germany has world class motorway but still it has world class Railways as well. If germany depends only on motorway it will traffic jams like us. Take example Marse to Paris by TGV train took 2 hours 45 mins (800 kms), with motorways can you cover the same time? Imagine nearly 350 cars streaming towards Paris from Marsse, obviously it causes clogs down the line.
Some genius in NDP can think all the problems can go away building motorways they are utter wrong. Except paying huge sums amounts to Construction tycoons in this part of the world. There is only a single figure increase in Cork-Dublin/Dublin-Galway train service. There is no new railway line for the past 40 years instead geniuses in the govt think railways are not viable. Show me one train service in peak hours not Jam packed. Tell me Luas is not profitable in Dublin? Probably only capital (except Romania) in whole Europe who don’t have train service from and to Air port. :mad::mad: Transportation policy shouldn’t be wholly driven by motor car’s is wrong, motor car is individual transport. Mass transport can only done by network of buses and train service. Even if you build 10 lines M50/M3 traffic jams are here to stay.

L1011

Jesjes wrote: »

Also, no one seems to mind that it's a double toll road! We're all for infrasturcture, but *double* toll road... why doesnt anyone take issue with it?

Its a double toll road with both tolls being set to half the normal toll :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Once again, protesters not knowing what they're protesting about, wonderful.

buachaillbeoir

i cant believe people are getting away with what they are saying here. sick sick sick.

bauderline

In all honesty I don't think anyone really wants the poor girl to come to any real harm, you will always get a few shot from the hip comments when this sort of thing comes up for discussion. Its all very "toungue in cheek" just to use another cliche, and anyone who takes it remotely seriously is a muppet and should get a life..

IMHO... The biggest threat to this girl is likely herself by virtue of her own actions.

Really, go have a look at a few of the recent videos on this girls website, the link to it is a few pages back, the abuse that she gives to members of the Garda are jaw dropping, if I done that down the town on a Saturday night I would be going on a "holiday" complete with finger painting classes, she gets away with it completely. In another clip shed ends up dictating what number of plant machinery can travel past their blockade and in what manner.... Who in the name of sweet j*** does she think she is...

I do not wish harm on this girl, however I hope her stay down her hole proves to be thoroughly unpleasent experience.

Sundy

She should be removed from the site imediately unless she is wearing full PPE.. Hi-Viz, hard hat and safety boots and should be charged with a breach of health and safety laws if she has not got a trench box in the tunnel. It is a construction site and the rules for one should apply to all.

Dudess

See? As Bauderline has demonstrated, it is possible to voice your disapproval of what some protestors are doing without being a muppet about it.

Suaimhneach

Sundy wrote: »

She should be removed from the site imediately unless she is wearing full PPE.. Hi-Viz, hard hat and safety boots and should be charged with a breach of health and safety laws if she has not got a trench box in the tunnel. It is a construction site and the rules for one should apply to all.

The fundamental flaw in your logic is it's not and should not be a construction site, it is a national monument.

Suaimhneach

MYOB wrote: »

Its a double toll road with both tolls being set to half the normal toll :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Once again, protesters not knowing what they're protesting about, wonderful.

How dare you just disregard my point and brush me off as if being a protester as if it is some sort of infliction! I did not mention whether or not it would be half a toll or full toll, you are completely missing the point that I made, which was: Someone said they live in Meath and commute to Dublin as a result of economic problems - but they dont raise an issue with the "solution" to their economic problems *also* costing them money. And as someone else has already said, it doesnt matter how many roads you have - there are too many cars on the road - wtf are ye all gonna do when you end up in dublin anyway... MORE traffic.

The fact of the matter this is not long term planning for the betterment of Meath and Cavan and it is short sighted and will not solve the problem.

Sundy

Jesjes wrote: »

The fundamental flaw in your logic is it's not and should not be a construction site, it is a national monument.

Em it is a construction site there is a road being built and yes it should be a construction site because the courts say it should be and the elected representitives of this country say it should be.

I would love to know if squeeky ever visited this national momunment perviously to the route of the M3 being announced.

Personnaly i feel sorry for the people who have to commute on the old road everyday because i remember what it was like crawling through the Glen of the Downs as the "ecco warriors" held their moral protest. It didnt work for them and it wont work for squeeky.

bauderline

Jesjes wrote: »

The fact of the matter this is not long term planning for the betterment of Meath and Cavan and it is short sighted and will not solve the problem.

Really ? Why ? Because you say so ?

The bottom line is this at the moment it will take me around 30-40 minutes to get out of the city centre, once I have achieved this I can looking forward to trudging along in a long line of traffic and spending ages getting through Dunshauglin, Navan, Kells, about 1hr 30 minutes to 2 hours at peak times on top of the time taken to get out of Dublin.

Once the motorway is open it will take me circa 35 minutes to get to Virginia once I have got out of the city... at peak times !

Sounds like a problem solved to me....

Suaimhneach

bauderline wrote: »

Really ? Why ? Because you say so ?

The bottom line is this at the moment it will take me around 30-40 minutes to get out of the city centre, once I have achieved this I can looking forward to trudging along in a long line of traffic and spending ages getting through Dunshauglin, Navan, Kells, about 1hr 30 minutes to 2 hours at peak times on top of the time taken to get out of Dublin.

Once the motorway is open it will take me circa 35 minutes to get to Virginia once I have got out of the city... at peak times !

Sounds like a problem solved to me....

If the problem was "I cant get to Dublin fast enough" then yes - your problem is solved.

If the question is "Is badly planned infrastructure a worthy reason to destroy part of our heritage while also tolling those who have to suffer the journey" then the answer is no.

Your views based on your posts are as short sighted and narrowminded as those who planned this road. There is more at stake here than your travel time.

Sundy

Jesjes wrote: »

If the question is "Is badly planned infrastructure a worthy reason to destroy part of our heritage while also tolling those who have to suffer the journey" then the answer is no.

Who says its badly planned? Can you back up that statement? Replacing a smaller road that is way over capicity with a bigger road seems perfectly logical to me. And to answer your point on tolls, im sure many people will be happy to pay a few euro to have an extra hour a day at home.

dtwhaler

Jesjes wrote: »

If the question is "Is badly planned infrastructure a worthy reason to destroy part of our heritage while also tolling those who have to suffer the journey" then the answer is no.

.

Its all a matter of opinion. You say "the answer is no" , I say yes. It is worth it. Well worth it. Thats my opinion. The the majority of opinions seem to agree. The road will go ahead. Dont matter what protestors do in the end. The road will be double tolled at half price. Dont matter how much people complain. It will still get used.

Suaimhneach

Sundy wrote: »

Who says its badly planned? Can you back up that statement? Replacing a smaller road that is way over capicity with a bigger road seems perfectly logical to me. And to answer your point on tolls, im sure many people will be happy to pay a few euro to have an extra hour a day at home.

A lot of people have said its badly planned - its not long term and its not the solution to the over congestion on the roads. I amn't gonna fight that point anymore.

Why does everyone just accept what the government offers? Surely if you're required to travel a long distance to work the least that a government can do is put in a sustainable solution without further taxing the already over worked, over travelled and all too irritable commuters?

dtwhaler wrote: »

Its all a matter of opinion. You say "the answer is no" , I say yes. It is worth it. Well worth it. Thats my opinion. The the majority of opinions seem to agree. The road will go ahead. Dont matter what protestors do in the end. The road will be double tolled at half price. Dont matter how much people complain. It will still get used.

I am sure there will be a road, and there will be a toll, and many will gladly pay it and be ever grateful to FF. But hopefully it'll be re routed.

Sundy

Jesjes wrote: »

A lot of people have said its badly planned - its not long term and its not the solution to the over congestion on the roads. I amn't gonna fight that point anymore.

A lot of people know nothing about planning. Statements like that have to be backed up with fact. Of course you wont fight the point anymore because you have nothing to fight with.

dtwhaler

Grateful to FF ? Dont think so. I dont think they deserve any credit for this. I honestly think its past the point of no return and it wont get re-routed no matter how many people complain, dig tunnels etc. I dont think this road go be re-routed in such a way that is going to keep everyone happy. I think most people are anti-protestors because you get the feeling they will never be happy unless the road isnt built. Even if it avoided all historical monuments, even if it was toll free etc etc etc. Some people are just anti progress.

trellheim

The M3 will allow you to join the rat race faster and more conveniently.

Am I arguing against the need for it ? No.

Should it go past Tara ? Not really - here I agree with the protestors.

How many of you from Meath have asked your local representatives about better public transport to avoid getting in your car ? Honestly ?

Suaimhneach

Well I am not anti progress which I hope is fairly evident - I just want the best for all concerned, and for me that is more than the population of Meath that commutes to Dublin.

Sundy, I have argued that point and others already in this thread and I am not arsed to repeat myself. Also - if you do your research you will see that pleanty of accredited experts disagree with the road and think the planning is bad. Its not some sort of fictional statement I just made up...

Winters

Isint the new road further away from the hill then the existing one?

I know people involved with the planning and engineering of the road.

Suaimhneach

Winters wrote: »

Isint the new road further away from the hill then the existing one?

I know people involved with the planning and engineering of the road.

Tara = entire complex.

Hill of Tara = not under immediate threat from road.

Apparently, conviently the bit of the M3 that is close to Rath Lugh was said to be 45km away, but the maps were "wrong" and its actually much closer.

The NRA have publicly admitted that their Ordnance Survey maps and co-ordinates are wrong. Due to the presence of heavy machinery, concerns are increasing that irreversible damage will incur should it be allowed to continue.

From: http://dublinstreams.blogspot.com/ which he got somewhere else.

themont85

Yep its further away, I'm all for history and our heritage but these folks out in Tara are hippies with nothing better to do with their time. Its because of them that if something of our heritage is actually in a lot of danger that people won't give it the respect it deserves.

Suaimhneach

themont85 wrote: »

Yep its further away, I'm all for history and our heritage but these folks out in Tara are hippies with nothing better to do with their time. Its because of them that if something of our heritage is actually in a lot of danger that people won't give it the respect it deserves.

I would argue that instead of tarring everyone with the same brush you consider that maybe not every "hippy" has no integrity and that perhaps they are seeing something you're not.

The way I am looking at your post it's the peoples attitudes that are wrong/off and the actions of those who care about Tara and everything discussed are not wrong.

Winters

The landscape surrounding the Hill of Tara has not remained static since prehistory and much of the landscape visible today reflects the creation of demesnes in the 18th and 19th centuries. The M3 will also have an impact on the wider landscape surrounding the Hill of Tara just as the existing roads network and housing do. The M3 however, will be further away from Tara than the existing N3 Dublin-Navan Road being approximately 1.5km from the edge of the RMP zone around Tara and over 2km from the top of the hill. The design of the route has sought to minimise the impact by choosing a route to the east of Tara rather than the west, and by placing the route low in the valley below Tara where the natural topography, the existing hedging and newly planted landscaping will screen it from viewers on the Hill. The landscape architect* who assessed the visual impact for the EIS, stated at the Oral Hearing that he considered the M3 would not visually impinge on the sensitive landscape setting surrounding the National Monument.

New road sounds far superior then the existing one and shall benefit many of the locals and those who have to commute through this. I would value their opinions over the protesters any day. I have family friends who live in the Glen of the Downs. When the road was being built there the exact same protesters came down to give out about it.

They left the place in a worse state then any road ever would. You could see big black plastic bags and rubbish littered around the place for years afterwards (Even today It is still possible). They even lost a large section of their land over it. They loathed the protesters for the following reason:

None of the protesters had ever really visited the area. They all of a sudden, after all the hearings and planning had gone through and work was about to start arrived up from around the country and setup crude tree houses out of plastic and metal sheeting in trees and in tunnels causing a massive delay, mess and general unwelcome annoying to all the locals. Living there for months on end.

From looking through the various sites. Numerous planning, public hearings, environmental impact studies and discussions and options were looked at. I know people who were involved in this aspect. It is only when everyone is happy after months of discussion and planning that the work begins to only than have people seep out of nowhere and start costing the state thousands delaying a publically debated decision. If they wanted their voices all heard against the plans why not attend the public discussions and hearings on it? Thats why they are there, so that peoples objections are listened to and the options are shown and discussed. Ive been to many and see the changes made to plans after consultation with the local people.

Steve

Jesjes, I admire you for sticking to your principles and I believe you are geniunely fighting for the history and heratige surrounding Tara. :pac:<salutes.

The problem is, however, that the hole digger hippies do not share your passion. They believe themselves to be magical 'druids' or something and they believe that the 'enemy' is the government and the Gardai who are being run by Opus Dei.... They have publically posted this on their website. :pac:<Boo!

I have watched the videos, heard the interviews on radio, read their reports/blogs and still cannot make the conclusion that they are anything other than organised extreme activists.

Your efforts are valiant and have made a lot of us actually think about the issues involved - I cannot say the same for the English hippies and 'squeak' though.
:pac:<:mad:

Suaimhneach

Winters wrote: »

None of the protesters had ever really visited the area. They all of a sudden, after all the hearings and planning had gone through and work was about to start arrived up from around the country and setup crude tree houses out of plastic and metal sheeting in trees and in tunnels causing a massive delay, mess and general unwelcome annoying to all the locals. Living there for months on end.

The reason this argument bothers me is because it deems that only locals and those who frequent a site have any right to it. I dont think this is fair or right. Consider for a minute someone in England, France or Germany (as those are also some of the people on the Rath) hear about this M3 toll road going through the Sacred Valley at Tara and then decide to get involved... They shouldnt be any less worthy than anyone else.

This is a World Heritage site - or it should be recognised as one - and therefore everyone has a right to join the protest at any time.

I know what you guys are saying about the "Professional" protesters, spongers and such - I take your point - but I cant help but be grateful for their presence - if an Irish person isnt willing to make that sacrifice I'll be damned to turn away anyone else who is! And even if it is an Irish person - maybe they're not as "crusty" as you guys really think. Have any of you gone to the hill, talked to these people, heard them out? Considered for a minute these guys actually gave up their lives just to try and stop this happening.

stevec wrote: »

Jesjes, I admire you for sticking to your principles and I believe you are geniunely fighting for the history and heratige surrounding Tara. :pac:<salutes.

The problem is, however, that the hole digger hippies do not share your passion. They believe themselves to be magical 'druids' or something and they believe that the 'enemy' is the government and the Gardai who are being run by Opus Dei.... They have publically posted this on their website. :pac:<Boo!

I have watched the videos, heard the interviews on radio, read their reports/blogs and still cannot make the conclusion that they are anything other than organised extreme activists.

Your efforts are valiant and have made a lot of us actually think about the issues involved - I cannot say the same for the English hippies and 'squeak' though.
:pac:<:mad:

Thanks Steve, I would like to think that some people reconsidered after reading some of my points - though after facing the brutal ignorance of some I am left feeling slightly hopeless in that regard.

As for the Druids and the Opus Dei... their truth might not be for the greater audience but their passion is as real as those on the hill. And as true as I will defend anyone who wants to see this road re routed I will do so for them as well.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion and for anyone here to disregard them without hearing what they have to say based on their "crustiness" or "title", well, those people speak for themselves just by doing so.