First with the news:Tara protesters to be removed

javaboy

LordChessington wrote: »

Yup. She is obviously using SSH tunneling

Get your coat

biko

I like hippies but they just don't have the equipment to deal with the Gardai.
The hippies needs shields, batons and helmets.

Suaimhneach

stevec wrote: »

Does she have internet in the tunnel?

Way to miss the point.

woooo232 wrote: »

Thankfully according to the 1 o'clock news on RTE she has been arrested so hopefully is on her way to jail.

Wrong, afaik, someone was arrested - then released already.

woooo232 wrote: »

@jesjes... I googled Rath Lugh like you suggested but all I found was websites saying how terrible it is that it may be damaged by the road but none saying why it is so important. Why don't you tell us what exactly is so important about this monument?

If you cant put the pieces together I cant hand hold you through it.

LordChessington wrote: »

Yup. She is obviously using SSH tunneling

The internet are full of lulz and point missing today. Well done!

is_that_so

Jesjes wrote: »

This campaign has been going on for five years - it has been respectable, it has been patient, it has tried to change policy and get court orders in the right way - the fact of the matter is for five years no one in Government has done a tap to Save the Tara Valley and if it was not for these Protectors (not protesters) on Tara and "the girl in the tunnel" they would have paved over it already.

The same things happened with Carrickmines which in the end turned out to be no more than a few rocks. In this kind of scenario people can end up not interested in respecting the law, whether through their own court cases or illegal activities that continue until they bully people into giving the "right answer".

seamus

It's a 50-70m wide stretch of road through a valley that's thousands of acres in size.

Hippies always overestimate the impact of roads - look at the Glen of the downs. All sorts of morons chaining themselves to trees back then, but the M/N11 now is a great scenic road and the natural beauty of the glen hasn't been affected in the slightest.

Ans sorry Jesjes, but that report won't cut it. It's full of spelling mistakes for a start and it also looks like it was written by an indymedia "journalist".

Trojan911

I wonder is she actually Irish or from one of the Rent-A-Mob agencies?

darkman2

She has been arrested, the one in the tunnel?


Hope this is the end of it now and we can just get on and build the road.

cornbb

Jesjes wrote: »

She is not endangering the lives of others if they back off, in fact her life is only in danger when they park huge trucks and such on the (albeit temporarily) Protected Monument.

They won't/can't back off. If she doesn't come out voluntarily (and I can't see that happening tbh), a court order to remove her will inevitably be issued. She is making life extremely difficult for the individuals who will need to remove her. She has placed her own life in danger. No-one forced her to enter the stupid tunnel. Suggesting that those who parked the trucks are at fault would be like me stepping onto the road in front of speeding traffic because I don't want to wait for the lights to change, then blaming the drivers of the car for hitting me.

This campaign has been going on for five years - it has been respectable, it has been patient, it has tried to change policy and get court orders in the right way - the fact of the matter is for five years no one in Government has done a tap to Save the Tara Valley and if it was not for these Protectors (not protesters) on Tara and "the girl in the tunnel" they would have paved over it already.

"Has been" is the key phrase in that sentence. Acting like this because things haven't gone your way is stupid, dangerous, irresponsible, self-satisfying and blinkered.

I hope she doesn't die too, partially because she's a human being and partially because she would become a martyr for many other foolish and misguided "heroes".

AckwelFoley

Build the road.

There has been long enough time to go through the legal system.

Chucking rocks at Gardai from west and sitting informt of bulldozers does not work and is illegal.

The country needs to improve infrastrucure, nobody can deny that.

*waits for screams of "you capitalist bastard!"*

Mr. CooL ICE

Jesjes wrote: »

Again, if you dont get it and you make no effort to get it, then it is pointless trying to convince you that you have a heritage and a culture worth fighting for. Trying to convince you that Tara/Skryne/The Valley are intimately connected to those things would be an even bigger battle that would obviously be wasted on you.

Why not just catalog it and move on? What difference is going to be made to our lives (and/or 'heritage')if it is ploughed over? Do you want this site to be a no-go area forever?

javaboy

Jesjes wrote: »

Way to miss the point.

................


The internet are full of lulz and point missing today. Well done!

I could be wrong now and don't quote me on this but I think the comments about internet access were jokes. Way to miss the point

The Sparrow

I still don't see how this monument is worth putting your life in danger for. How many people knew of it before the controversy with the road erupted? How many people are likely to ever visit it? So it is one of seven defences of the Hill of Tara? Sure even if it is completely destroyed (which i doubt) there are another six left!! hardly a reason to endanger your life or the lives of others.

I live near Carrickmines and before the M50 we had all of this nonsense for a Castle that nobody cared about before the controversy. I went up to meet the protestors. I found that I knew a couple of them from school and they were complete wasters and basically they were sitting around smoking spliffs thinking how cool they were for standing up to "the man". I would hazard a guess that these protesters are pretty similar.

And like Glen of the Downs, the world didn't end when the motorway was built and it has actually improved the lives of people near it (certainly mine when I drove to Maynooth for uni!)

Suaimhneach

is_that_so wrote: »

The same things happened with Carrickmines which in the end turned out to be no more than a few rocks. In this kind of scenario people can end up not interested in respecting the law, whether through their own court cases or illegal activities that continue until they bully people into giving the "right answer".

Tara is worth preserving.

seamus wrote: »

It's a 50-70m wide stretch of road through a valley that's thousands of acres in size.

Hippies always overestimate the impact of roads - look at the Glen of the downs. All sorts of morons chaining themselves to trees back then, but the M/N11 now is a great scenic road and the natural beauty of the glen hasn't been affected in the slightest.

Ans sorry Jesjes, but that report won't cut it. It's full of spelling mistakes for a start and it also looks like it was written by an indymedia "journalist".

It was written as far as I can tell by an Irish and a Polish archaeologist. If you do read it the facts are sound, regardless of spelling... but point taken.

Trojan911 wrote: »

I wonder is she actually Irish or from one of the Rent-A-Mob agencies?

Would it, or should it make any difference if I am not Irish? If I care about Tara that is the right of any person on the planet.

Ach, is duine Éireannach mé gan dabht ar bith... is mór an trua é nach bhfuil an meas céanna agatsa ar an dúchas agus an stair is a bhfuil agam.

darkman2 wrote: »

She has been arrested, the one in the tunnel?

Hope this is the end of it now and we can just get on and build the road.

She wasnt and this isnt.

cornbb wrote: »

They won't/can't back off. If she doesn't come out voluntarily (and I can't see that happening tbh), a court order to remove her will inevitably be issued. She is making life extremely difficult for the individuals who will need to remove her. She has placed her own life in danger. No-one forced her to enter the stupid tunnel. Suggesting that those who parked the trucks are at fault would be like me stepping onto the road in front of speeding traffic because I don't want to wait for the lights to change, then blaming the drivers of the car for hitting me.

"Has been" is the key phrase in that sentence. Acting like this because things haven't gone your way is stupid, dangerous, irresponsible, self-satisfying and blinkered.

I hope she doesn't die too, partially because she's a human being and partially because she would become a martyr for many other foolish and misguided "heroes".

I hope she doesnt die too, and that she doesnt become a martyr. I am not "acting like this" though I am trying to defend the actions taken by those faced with dealing with our corrupt government. What else would you suggest as all else has failed?

snyper wrote: »

Build the road.

There has been long enough time to go through the legal system.

Chucking rocks at Gardai from west and sitting informt of bulldozers does not work and is illegal.

The country needs to improve infrastrucure, nobody can deny that.

Well done again on being completely uneducated about the whole damn issue. No one denies the need for a road - but we do require a re routing away from the sacred sites - there are alternatives.

LordChessington wrote: »

Why not just catalog it and move on? What difference is going to be made to our lives (and/or 'heritage')if it is ploughed over? Do you want this site to be a no-go area forever?

Well - that in itself is in question - are they even doing proper cataloging as it stands? Some would say they arent. The only reason we know about the Henge at Tara is because it was brought to the media before it could be bulldozed - this is what we are fighting against. Those who arrive at 4am to work under the cover of darkness to hide taht which might be found and would definitely stop the road.

cornbb

Jesjes wrote: »

I hope she doesnt die too, and that she doesnt become a martyr. I am not "acting like this" though I am trying to defend the actions taken by those faced with dealing with our corrupt government. What else would you suggest as all else has failed?

Sorry, I meant "your way" in the third person, as in "her way" not you, JesJes's way.

If all legal and morally sound routes have failed then its time to give up, I reckon. I'm against the screwed-upness of our government as anyone else but taking the law into one's own hands and acting recklessly while claiming to speak for others is just the pits. Democracy is flawed but its the only sound way of getting things done we have.

emoKILLER

Jesjes wrote: »

Don't you get it - dont ANY of you get it?! She's trying to hilight the IMPORTANCE of Tara by risking her life - would any of you do the same for anything in your lives? If she is hurt it will be the fault of the Government and the bad actions of the Gaurds/Fire Brigade. They KNOW she is there and why they are doing is ILLEGAL!

1. why is tara so IMPORTANT?

2. so if i pushed a kid out of the way of an oncoming car, and the car hit and killed me, would it be the fauld of the government, guads and fire brigade.

3. the guards are not doing anything incase the tunnel caves in, she can come out when ever she wants

4. what they are doing is PROGRESS!

Loomis

Jesjes wrote: »

Don't you get it - dont ANY of you get it?! She's trying to hilight the IMPORTANCE of Tara by risking her life - would any of you do the same for anything in your lives? If she is hurt it will be the fault of the Government and the bad actions of the Gaurds/Fire Brigade. They KNOW she is there and why they are doing is ILLEGAL!

It is NO SMALL coincidence that there is a court case going on TODAY to decide whether or not to make an Emergency Injunction to halt all works at Rath Lugh and making it permanent - dont be fooled. Our government will take you for fools if you let them!

(I am more the fool for bothering on AH but I cant help it)

She's endangering her life! Not them. She's the one who chose to tied a chain around her bleedin neck! Argue all you want about the fact they shouldn't be there but that doesn't mean she has to do that. If you tie a rope around your neck and sling it over a tree branch to hang yourself is that your fault or the person who planted the tree? Just cause it's there doesn't mean you do something to endanger your life

Suaimhneach

cornbb wrote: »

Sorry, I meant "your way" in the third person, as in "her way" not you, JesJes's way.

If all legal and morally sound routes have failed then its time to give up, I reckon. I'm against the screwed-upness of our government as anyone else but taking the law into one's own hands and acting recklessly while claiming to speak for others is just the pits. Democracy is flawed but its the only sound way of getting things done we have.

If we give up... then I fear this would be true:

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

The fvck we do!! We care about MONEY in this country and that's all. They'd build the fvcking thing right OVER Tara if it saved a few million and people would stand by and applaud!

I cant face the thought of giving up. I dont think the Protectors who've given up over a year of their lives living on the hill and on Rath Lugh in an attempt to protect it from the corruption of our Governement can face it either.

And I mean, the whole country is being taken for a ride. It's a double toll road - not a great infrastructure marvel - it'll save 20minutes and cost an arm and a leg and it has alternatives.

The Governement win every time we end up debating the small issue and they get on with their bigger agenda ie. tolling the nation to travel and destroying our hertiage to make them their millions...

po0k

seamus wrote: »

It's a 50-70m wide stretch of road through a valley that's thousands of acres in size.

So no alternate route other than 25m proximity could be found?

I wonder who's land had to be purchased for this route, who they have personal or business relationships with in political/civil service positions and how much was paid per acre compared with typical market prices?

Suaimhneach

emoKILLER wrote: »

1. why is tara so IMPORTANT?

2. so if i pushed a kid out of the way of an oncoming car, and the car hit and killed me, would it be the fauld of the government, guads and fire brigade.

3. the guards are not doing anything incase the tunnel caves in, she can come out when ever she wants

4. what they are doing is PROGRESS!

1. Educate yourself.

2. That statement is stupid.

3. And...?

4. Well done on stating the obvious... though I do believe some might argue that destroying what should be a national monument in the name of progress is stupid.

Read the thread before you post in future.

Mr. Anderson wrote: »

She's endangering her life! Not them. She's the one who chose to tied a chain around her bleedin neck! Argue all you want about the fact they shouldn't be there but that doesn't mean she has to do that. If you tie a rope around your neck and sling it over a tree branch to hang yourself is that your fault or the person who planted the tree? Just cause it's there doesn't mean you do something to endanger your life

I cant argue with your logic. She did chose to put her life in danger. That's a given.

Can we PLEASE stop with the analogies? Girl dug hole and is in tunnel is simple enough to understand folks!

All I can say is that she obviously cares enough about this issue to do that and that maybe those arguing against this should take a second and maybe try see in the land what she must see. And maybe reconsider.

ScumLord

Maybe ye're right. History isn't worth preserving, we don't need to know how the human race and culture developed. The pyramids haven't done the egyptians any good. No body goes to see the great wall of China. It's just a wall after all.

The likes of Tara and it's surrounding area is unique. But it's pretty typical that your typical money obsessed Irish citizen cares less about history and culture than spending a bit more rerouting an unbuilt road slightly.

This road should never have gone near this area, the government and planning authorities are completely to blame for this stupid short sightedness. We should hand over all public planning to a foreign body because we have no clue what we're doing.

emoKILLER

ScumLord wrote: »

they've already had to stop on a number of occasions because they came across artifacts and settlements.

i find that really funny, they would have never found those artifacts if the road wasnt built! so they are doing the national museum a favour







*waits for fish to take bait*

is_that_so

Jesjes wrote: »

I cant face the thought of giving up. I dont think the Protectors who've given up over a year of their lives living on the hill and on Rath Lugh in an attempt to protect it from the corruption of our Governement can face it either.

This again is where I find the lack of common sense of the supporters disturbing especially where they award titles to themselves and mutter about sacred ground. There is no reason to suppose that if another man had deemed it sacred, there would be no houses on the Hill of Howth or Killiney Hill. Things move on. History builds on history. Some things are worth preserving , but they come second to the preservation of life. If we end up subsuming that then we have learnt nothing from our history and heritage.
Eventually one has to accept that some things will not come to pass and move on to another fight.

Loomis

She cares a little too much tbh. More than a little. Like others have said; farmers uncover things all the time and any road being built anywhere in the country is bound to uncover something. By your, and her, logic all roads should be re-routed. But since everywhere in the country has something hidden beneath our soil we can't re-route them anywhere and no roads should be built. Fairly illogical and inconsistent views and behaviour really.
I'd care more about my life than an object. Even an old object covered in muck

cornbb

Jesjes wrote: »

All I can say is that she obviously cares enough about this issue to do that and that maybe those arguing against this should take a second and maybe try see in the land what she must see. And maybe reconsider.

I have no problem with her ends, its the means that I have a huge problem with that. Maybe you should forget about what she's trying to achieve for a moment and independently take a look at what she's doing. Its wrong, no matter what she's trying to achieve.

Suaimhneach

emoKILLER wrote: »

i find that really funny, they would have never found those artifacts if the road wasnt built! so they are doing the national museum a favour







*waits for fish to take bait*

A point I made earlier was due to the pressure of trying to get the road built they are not excavating properly - for instance the Wooden Henge only came to light because it got to the Media, otherwise it would have been bulldozed. One can only wonder how many other artifacts and sites have been found that have been recovered in the name of "progress".

What sort of society calls bulldozing it's heritage progress. Shame on them.

Take your trolling elsewhere emoKiller.

Trojan911

Jesjes wrote: »

Would it, or should it make any difference if I am not Irish? If I care about Tara that is the right of any person on the planet.

Well, there are those who will protest in a peacful, non violent, non dangerous way to get their message across & then there is Rent-A-Mob, who thrive on violence, media attention & provocation. They are not really in it for the main cause of the protest in my experience & opinion.

This latest display of media grabbing lunacy falls in the latter.

Suaimhneach

is_that_so wrote: »

This again is where I find the lack of common sense of the supporters disturbing especially where they award titles to themselves and mutter about sacred ground. There is no reason to suppose that if another man had deemed it sacred, there would be no houses on the Hill of Howth or Killiney Hill. Things move on. History builds on history. Some things are worth preserving , but they come second to the preservation of life. If we end up subsuming that then we have learnt nothing from our history and heritage.
Eventually one has to accept that some things will not come to pass and move on to another fight.

I dont think this is that time. I get what you're saying, but that is not for now.

Mr. Anderson wrote: »

She cares a little too much tbh. More than a little. Like others have said; farmers uncover things all the time and any road being built anywhere in the country is bound to uncover something. By your, and her, logic all roads should be re-routed. But since everywhere in the country has something hidden beneath our soil we can't re-route them anywhere and no roads should be built. Fairly illogical and inconsistent views and behaviour really.
I'd care more about my life than an object. Even an old object covered in muck

There is a difference between a farmer uncovering somethign and a huge historical site of massive importance. Our entire history stems from this one place.

cornbb wrote: »

I have no problem with her ends, its the means that I have a huge problem with that. Maybe you should forget about what she's trying to achieve for a moment and independently take a look at what she's doing. Its wrong, no matter what she's trying to achieve.

Debating the rights and wrongs of what she is doing gets us no where. Maybe it is wrong, but if she doesnt do something like that, if none of the protectors do anything, then there is no one doing any means to get to any end. Again I ask, what else would you have us do?

Saying "Give up" is not an option. Some of us actually care about our hertiage, our land, and our right to have it free of toll road and corrupt governments.

Loomis

Jesjes wrote: »

There is a difference between a farmer uncovering somethign and a huge historical site of massive importance. Our entire history stems from this one place.

And there's a difference between that and not addressing my point about every single road ever built in the country. And with that I'm off...

The Sparrow

Jesjes wrote: »

protectors

LOL... just LOL

Vandals more like.

ScumLord

is_that_so wrote: »

Some things are worth preserving , but they come second to the preservation of life.

They're is no treat to life by rerouting the road. It would probably create more jobs if anything.

emoKILLER wrote: »

i find that really funny, they would have never found those artifacts if the road wasnt built! so they are doing the national museum a favour *waits for fish to take bait*

Mmmm worms. We'd have found them eventually.

Trojan911 wrote: »

Well, there are those who will protest in a peacful, non violent, non dangerous way to get their message across

Are ignored and bulldozed out of the way because they put up no fight.

Oh yea, farmers typically don't see allot of archaeology as they only till the top layer of soil. The treasures usually a good bit below that level.