SU imploding?

rmacm

Onikage wrote: »

After 4 years in UL I'm still not sure what An Focal was for. Lighting fires? Stuffing under creaky, draughty doors? Emergency loo roll?

While it can reliably do all three I'd hazard a guess that it's for reading.

PeakOutput wrote: »

but if people get free rides into a sabbatical position this year im going to be fairly pissed off

That's the way things happen some times, our current president got what you could term a free ride into office as no one stood to oppose her.

dedon wrote: »

Firstly, just because the PPO is a Mod here doesnt mean I am afraid to state my opinions and I dont take kindly at being insulted and threatened in that manner.

Would you ever come off it, no one threatened or insulted you.

dedon wrote: »

Ya self-publication is one of the main problems of this paper. The amount of people writting for the paper just to try ans show off is ridiculas. But show off what I might add. The standard is very poor. I picked up the NUI Galway paper a few weeks ago and it was FAR superior

Hmmm it's ironic that someone complaining about the amount of spelling mistakes in a student news paper could produce the master piece above.

dedon wrote: »

Come on just ask the general student population what they think of the paper this year ans the majority will say it is poor.

Have you actually gone and asked the general student population what they think of the paper? If not then you cannot definitively make the statement above.

Mossin

rmacm wrote: »

While it can reliably do all three I'd hazard a guess that it's for reading.



That's the way things happen some times, our current president got what you could term a free ride into office as no one stood to oppose her.



Would you ever come off it, no one threatened or insulted you.



Hmmm it's ironic that someone complaining about the amount of spelling mistakes in a student news paper could produce the master piece above.



Have you actually gone and asked the general student population what they think of the paper? If not then you cannot definitively make the statement above.

+1

scary_tractors

dedon wrote: »

Ya self-publication is one of the main problems of this paper. The amount of people writting for the paper just to try ans show off is ridiculas. But show off what I might add. The standard is very poor. I picked up the NUI Galway paper a few weeks ago and it was FAR superior

Can I point out that NUIG has a full-time editor who is not elected but appointed based on their training and experience, and can also design the paper.

The PPO is not a full-time editor, or shouldn't be. The PPO has many duties other than An Focal, whereas in NUIG the editor's only responsibility is the paper.

In NUIG, also, there is a dedicated journalism course, which means good writing from people who are trained. Whatever the debate about An Focal "not being for baby journalists" (as, I'm sure Ogra FF is just a society and "not for baby politicians"), you cannot deny that people who are trained in what they are doing can produce better, more attractive and readable articles. The reason the standard of writing in An Focal is often so bad is precisely because the people writing are not trained to do it. They don't know how to write news, don't know what structure to use, and are often lucky if they have a decent grasp of the English language. BECAUSE of the policy of opening the paper to anyone who wants to write.

If you're going to advocate letting everyone who wants to write in the paper do so, then you have to put up with a certain amount of crap. A paper for students by students is not going to be the standard of the poorest professional newspaper, because students do not know what they are doing unless they get training. Which they generally do not get.

ninty9er

PeakOutput wrote: »

i wont argue on the tcd side even tho i disagree(particularly as i dont see anything rivaling the trinity ball) but the ucd ents officer is basically guaranteed a job in promotions after if they want one for the simple fact that they spend the year organising top quality gigs for their student body. for example the year i left school groove armada were the headliners at the freshers ball/week in september were as for this years RAG week(biggest event/week of the year) there is not a hint of an international act

Organising the event isn't actually the issue, it's finding somewhere big enough. The biggest place within 50 miles is the South Court, and the Co-Op/Christmas Ball or the Freshers Ball aren't really that big, but they pack the place with less than 600 people. Travelling to Cork is really out of the question as getting 1000+ twisted students back to Limerick at 5am on a Friday morning is something no company is going to sign up for after the Halloween ball in Ennis.

scary_tractors

PeakOutput wrote: »

i wont argue on the tcd side even tho i disagree(particularly as i dont see anything rivaling the trinity ball) but the ucd ents officer is basically guaranteed a job in promotions after if they want one for the simple fact that they spend the year organising top quality gigs for their student body. for example the year i left school groove armada were the headliners at the freshers ball/week in september were as for this years RAG week(biggest event/week of the year) there is not a hint of an international act

Question: how often do you see ANY international act playing anywhere other than Dublin? Comparing Trinity and UL is just not fair - not because UL isn't an equally good university (which it is) or because the SU isn't as good (which it is - if you think the infighting is bad in UL find a sabbat in Trinity who doesn't hate their fellow officers, at least that was my experience).

TCD has a way bigger student population and it's in the middle of the country's capital. UL is in Limerick (not a city noted for its huge world-class gigs) and, at that, it's not even in the city. It's in the county.

The issue here is student politics and whether they are still relevant. Having been involved for many years I would say they aren't. Most students these days are middle class, have part time jobs to fund their drinking and are happy enough to just get through college with a degree and enjoy themselves. True, there is still a huge problem with access, but because student politicians are the ones who got in (and therefore have not experienced this problem) it's not something they are bothered about, with some exceptions. The ones who are bothered about this get flak from their electorate for not organising a brilliant RAG week, because they're busy campaigning.

Like the majority of the Irish population, students are largely uncaring about anything that happens outside their own immediate bubble.

bluedolphin

klong wrote: »

Do you not have any interesting gossip to report bluedolphin?

Yes I'm the new PPO-elect as of 5pm yesterday evening as there were no other candidates for the position. I'm now suffering a terrible hangover, so my responses may be a bit dodgy in grammar and punctuation, etc...I apologise in advance so please, no one haul me up on this at the moment in my very delicate, shaky state...

mrmanire wrote: »

Cannot disagree with that. I think Judith's resignation may be the best thing that happened the Union in years. A bit of shock therapy can't do any harm. I certainly have not felt very well represented the last few years.

I think Judith's resignation marks a very sad occasion for the Union overall. I'm not going to comment on the event as I'm a member of this year's Executive and a sabbatical officer elect. I don't think it would be appropriate for me to pass remarks.

Onikage wrote: »

After 4 years in UL I'm still not sure what An Focal was for. Lighting fires? Stuffing under creaky, draughty doors? Emergency loo roll?

It's the Union newsletter, essentially, communicating with its members aka the students.

PeakOutput wrote: »

while im only a wee first year(granted a 22yrold one) i do find the student union a bit odd as in not very visible. presumably as students we are all members automatically so should we not be getting updates on meetings etc automatically.

This is one of the main issues that I will attempt to combat when I take up office. I will be working very closely with the CSO (Damian Cahill - also elected unopposed) to undertake a widespread just general information campaign, hopefully ongoing throughout the year. I want to make the Union accessible and visible to the general student who is not involved in any SU related activity (eg Class reps, Clubs and Socs...etc)

PeakOutput wrote: »

also i know the ents soc does good work but should there not be a sabbatical ents officer position...

The CSO is responsible in co-operation with Eightball to co-ordinate Union ents.

PeakOutput wrote: »

obviously i dont know how the election was fought and won last year but if people get free rides into a sabbatical position this year im going to be fairly pissed off (just to clarify i assume a sabbatical means a paid year off college to dedicate to your position if im wrong correct me)

I suppose as I was elected unopposed I have just gotten a 'free ride' into a position... But no one went against me; that's not my fault. I was more than willing and ready for a campaign. I had everything set to go for a campaign and was really geared up for one. I had posters designed, a slogan, gimmicks, colour, sweets, etc, etc., etc... No one ran against me though. I'm still going to run an information campaign anyway, regardless. I'll have a stand in the main canteen and will be more than willing to answer any questions that anyone has.

dedon wrote: »

Secondly, An Focal is boring, poorly written and just plain rubbish this year. Saying that the the C&S is responsible for the poor quality is a bit lame. The Editor has a job to sort it out.

General opinion around the college is that the Paper is very poor this year. Ask anyone about it. It not up to date on matters and the number of spelling and grammar mistakes are crazy. Esp, the Rag Mag which had a least 9.

RAG Mag was not done through the office of PPO. Eightball were responsible for a lot of it.

cson wrote: »

As regards An Focal, its not bad but it does need some direction as to where its headed. Some pieces strike me as being a vehicle for the authors self publication. The layout could do with a bit of a change too.

One of my main plans is to completely overhaul its appearance (layout/design).

scary_tractors wrote: »

*stuff about professionalism/journalism*

There will be a BA and an MA in Journalism starting in September. I hope to coordinate closely with the Department of Languages and Cultural Studies (under which the courses will come) and to tap into the potential that these new students will have. I will also look into serious training for current writers because I feel that they need to be rewarded for their input into the paper, but also it would have a further benefit for the paper in the long run.

mrmanire

bluedolphin wrote: »

I think Judith's resignation marks a very sad occasion for the Union overall. I'm not going to comment on the event as I'm a member of this year's Executive and a sabbatical officer elect. I don't think it would be appropriate for me to pass remarks.

Who was it that started and named this thread anyway? 'SU imploding?'. Please correct me if I'm wrong but that sounds like a remark to me.

justfortherecor

A justifiable remark to be honest though. Looking at all that happened recently and the in-fighting which culminated in the publication of the now famous letter, I think it could be referred to as an 'implosion'.

Edit: Oh, and to answer your question, I think it was bluedolphin who referred to it originally as an implosion. I discovered that little nugget of info by going back to page 1 of the thread and seeing who posted the first message.

mrmanire

Thanks for letting me know how to use the message boards there. I wasn't trying to make a point with the last point or anything crazy like that. never

cooperguy

dedon wrote:

Sorry but he is the Editor?????
Come on just ask the general student population what they think of the paper this year ans the majority will say it is poor. You are obviously biased so I dont trust your opinion.
the issues are , its very boring, very bland design and poor quality of writting. Most of the articles are two weeks out of date and what they call 'old news'

I would love to know where you got this opinion from? The paper hasnt dropped in standard in the last few years at all. If anything id say it has gone in the other direction (though not by a huge amount). Headlines like "Student Attached" havent been seen in quite a while. Its a student paper written by students and as such has an acceptable quality of writing. And as for your comment about being out of date simple issues like funding dictate how often a paper can be published and this cannot be helped.

bluedolphin

Yes I understand it was a remark by calling the thread, 'SU Imploding?'. But it was not a remark on Judith's reasons nor saying whether I agree or disagree with her decision. Also, when I started this thread I was also commenting on the fact that at the time there were four positions going uncontested. As it turned out, three sabbatical officers were deemed elected yesterday as they were unopposed.

The thread title refers to the fact that the Union seems to be in a bit of disarray at the moment. This is the first time that a sabbat has resigned and it does signify that there is a real underlying problem.

I also had a question mark at the end of the title.

mrmanire

Corrected I do stand. Looks like you are inheriting some mess for next year. I wish you luck.

bluedolphin

mrmanire wrote: »

Corrected I do stand. Looks like you are inheriting some mess for next year. I wish you luck.

I know.

As part of next year's team going forward I think we need to examine the issues that are facing us... There are a few... :rolleyes::(

PeakOutput

bluedolphin wrote: »

I suppose as I was elected unopposed I have just gotten a 'free ride' into a position...

twas nothing personal obviously i know its not your fault no1 else ran i just think that its a bit stupid that in theory i could have got 50 names handed them in and all of a sudden have a job for next year looking after the welfare of a few thousand students

edit; and i know damo well so im glad he will be around next year and will work his ass off

rmacm

I wonder will that dedon fella come back I want someone to argue with...ninty9er and that digiking fella aren't really entertaining for me to harass any more.

bluedolphin

PeakOutput wrote: »

twas nothing personal obviously i know its not your fault no1 else ran i just think that its a bit stupid that in theory i could have got 50 names handed them in and all of a sudden have a job for next year looking after the welfare of a few thousand students

edit; and i know damo well so im glad he will be around next year and will work his ass off

I am of exactly the same sentiment as you, and it's something that will bother me for the duration of my term: my legitimacy and my mandate from the students, and I'm sure it will hang over the other two who were unopposed as well. Meh. I have a lot of concrete ideas that I've been thinking about for sometime so I am glad that I have this opportunity to try to put them in place to better student life at UL.

I know Damien quite well myself as well and I'm confident that he will do a very good job and that together we can boost Union morale and raise it from its current low.

Now there's the slight matter of the remaining five weeks of college and, oh, exams. Sniff, only five weeks of college, sniff sniff...

ninty9er

rmacm wrote: »

I wonder will that dedon fella come back I want someone to argue with...ninty9er and that digiking fella aren't really entertaining for me to harass any more.

I knew he'd come around to me in the end:pac::pac: He'l vote FF for the rest of his life now ya know:p:p

dedon

scary_tractors wrote: »

Can I point out that NUIG has a full-time editor who is not elected but appointed based on their training and experience, and can also design the paper.

The PPO is not a full-time editor, or shouldn't be. The PPO has many duties other than An Focal, whereas in NUIG the editor's only responsibility is the paper.

In NUIG, also, there is a dedicated journalism course, which means good writing from people who are trained. Whatever the debate about An Focal "not being for baby journalists" (as, I'm sure Ogra FF is just a society and "not for baby politicians"), you cannot deny that people who are trained in what they are doing can produce better, more attractive and readable articles. The reason the standard of writing in An Focal is often so bad is precisely because the people writing are not trained to do it. They don't know how to write news, don't know what structure to use, and are often lucky if they have a decent grasp of the English language. BECAUSE of the policy of opening the paper to anyone who wants to write.

If you're going to advocate letting everyone who wants to write in the paper do so, then you have to put up with a certain amount of crap. A paper for students by students is not going to be the standard of the poorest professional newspaper, because students do not know what they are doing unless they get training. Which they generally do not get.

I have to disagree with you on your last point. This is a third level Uni of a very high standard with very intelligent people. I am sure that we can create a paper that is very good if it is managed by a very good and capable person.

You have stated that students do not know what they are doing unless they get training??? Are you for real?? I think many of us have the ability to put a good article together. They do not all need to be trained on how to write a great article. If it is interesting and topical and informative then it should be sufficent. The editor has a responsibility to release a paper that us students should be proud of. We should aim to have the best college paper in Ireland and not simply blaim it on the fact that students in a third level institution are not capable to do this due to lack of training.

dedon

rmacm wrote: »

I wonder will that dedon fella come back I want someone to argue with...ninty9er and that digiking fella aren't really entertaining for me to harass any more.

Harass??? Anyway, just expressing an opinion here really to be honest. I am not going to keep going on about An Focal because I feel we will disagree the whole time. However I would love to see a poll done in the paper asking students what they think of it.

Furthermore, I have to agree with previous posters that Judith's resignation will provide a much needed shake up in the SU. Throughout my six years in UL, I can safetly say that this is the most interesting thing to happen. I havent felt well represented at all. Peolpe have the opinion that the SU is for self gratitude and this applies to the position of PPO more so than the others over the last few years. A scapegoat to journalism etc

rmacm

bluedolphin wrote: »

I know.

As part of next year's team going forward I think we need to examine the issues that are facing us... There are a few... :rolleyes::(

Congrads on the new job.

ninty9er wrote: »

I knew he'd come around to me in the end:pac::pac: He'l vote FF for the rest of his life now ya know:p:p

Ah sure what can you do things just wouldn't be the same if I didn't I think I'll pass on the voting for FF for the moment though

rmacm

dedon wrote: »

Harass???

That's just the way I roll...ask ninty9er and digiking

I was going to ask if you were going to address any of the points I made in my previous posts but I'm getting tired now so I guess it'll have to wait until tomorrow.

dedon

rmacm wrote: »

That's just the way I roll...ask ninty9er and digiking

I was going to ask if you were going to address any of the points I made in my previous posts but I'm getting tired now so I guess it'll have to wait until tomorrow.

Well as for your comment on my terrible spelling, its RAG week so I must be forgiven on that matter I feel.

I stand by the rest of them

scary_tractors

dedon wrote: »

I have to disagree with you on your last point. This is a third level Uni of a very high standard with very intelligent people. I am sure that we can create a paper that is very good if it is managed by a very good and capable person.

You have stated that students do not know what they are doing unless they get training??? Are you for real?? I think many of us have the ability to put a good article together. They do not all need to be trained on how to write a great article. If it is interesting and topical and informative then it should be sufficent. The editor has a responsibility to release a paper that us students should be proud of. We should aim to have the best college paper in Ireland and not simply blaim it on the fact that students in a third level institution are not capable to do this due to lack of training.

Sorry dedon, just to be clear I didn't mean that as an insult to the students who write for the paper. Intelligent people do not necessarily make good journalists. And journalists, like any other profession, require training. Believe it or not there is a certain amount of skill required to write news. Most people who are intelligent and have an issue can write an opinion piece (hence so many bloggers appearing who are trained as something else but do very well) but news is a skill in itself and people do have to be trained.

And yes, I do agree that the paper can be good if managed by a capable person. But there does need to be training and from what I can see the PPO's duties are too widespread to allow them to concentrate on An Focal enough for it to be a really great paper.

ninty9er

Having replied to a question that was asked by a member on the ULSU forum, my post has ben removed for "breaching dissemination".

It seems I made a boo boo in my interpretation of the Transparency postscript in the constitution.

However to have actually warranted the DP Education's request to the PPO that it be removed, I would have to have breached some dissemination of Executive by stating a particular item as officers are free to discuss the majority of what goes on at Union Executive with anyone they wish.

sceptre

OK, before I start, there's a statement from the Students' Union executive on the ULSU forum and it was emailed to all students after being approved (the ITD problems with emailing all students by the SU having been sorted out (finally!)) and that's the official statement from the executive. This board is obviously external to the SU domain.

dedon wrote: »

Well An Focal is a total mess this year. Its a disgrace

Which is just what you said on the ULSU board and obviously you're fully entitled to your opinion but with all due respect and bearing in mind that I use this board as a regular person rather than an SU rep, given that your Flixster rating for 'There's Something About Mary' is four stars out of five, you'll forgive me if I note your opinion but take it with a gram or two of salt.

dedon wrote:

Secondly, An Focal is boring, poorly written and just plain rubbish this year.

Fair enough, I'll chalk that down as a minus one on my chalk board. I'll even happily assume you're speaking for more than yourself as, even accounting for how vociferously you're repeatedly making the same point, I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who don't like it. I do, however, know that there are plenty of people who do because a staggering amount of people have told me. Sometimes they also come with really useful suggestions which are always welcome. And on the other side a tiny number of people have been willing to come to me with particular issues with particular content. It's a handful, but some people have had problems with coverage of particular issues, including the drugs issue which has never been covered from the student point of view in the paper before, it's previously been limited to regurgitated information sheets. And the same people took issue with the coverage given to international students in a more recent issue for some reason. International students, like part-time students have been neglected by the SU for far too long and it's time someone stepped up to the plate and highlighted the issues they face when they come to UL. Happily the current SU president agreed with me and took the lead in organising the student interviews. Oh and the same people (again) had problems with the inclusion of the adverts for the Out In UL Queerbash event, who are as entitled to advertise their annual event as any other student group, and by all accounts it's a great event -I'd have turned up to give them support but unfortunately I was editing the next issue and didn't have time. In the past, there's been a reasonable amount of regurgitated press releases from the university and university departments included as content. Anne Sheridan (editor 05/06) and Deirdre O'Shaughnessy (06/07) didn't have much truck with that and moved dramatically away from that. I just won't print them. My simple policy is that if it's not written by a student it doesn't go in. The exceptions this year have been: an article on page 3 of edition 8 was written by a UL staff member with my approval and two articles and the wordsearch for the Shag Week supplement were written by a UL staff member as there wouldn't have been enough content otherwise. I 'm always willing to listen to any concerns or any sort of constructive criticism. If it helps to make the paper better it's extremely welcome as all the writers give of their time with no reward for it, apart from a hoodie at the end of the year if they've written enough to deserve it and extra people are always welcome if they want to get on board.

dedon wrote:

Esp, the Rag Mag which had a least 9.

Nothing to do with me as it wasn't my publication. I counted rather more then 9 at that. It was colourful though!

dedon wrote: »

Firstly, just because the PPO is a Mod here doesnt mean I am afraid to state my opinions

The PPO being a mod or an smod here is irrelevant and shouldn't mean any difference to anyone. My being mod here has nothing to do with my job, doesn't come with the job and doesn't travel with the job. It just happens that the owners of this site have regarded me as trustworthy enough to mod (currently) the politics, Literature and UL boards and to also make me an smod to clear up the mess when they're not around. Unfortunately I haven't had much time to be modding or posting here this year (though I still keep an eye on the boards and obviously get the reported posts to be dealt with) as the SU and UL students should come first during the entire twelve months for which I signed up to the SU job. With regard to stating opinion on UL things including the paper, I have my actual door open over ten hours a day and everyone's always felt free to walk in and state their opinions. When I'm not there my email address and work and private mobile numbers are on the door and no-one's felt bad about stating their opinion there either (though people are often amused when they send emails in the middle of the day or night and get replies within minutes). I don't see it should be any different on the interweb.

An Focal is a student paper, run by students for students. That's my philosophy and it's one I was explicitly elected on. And unusually for an SU officer I went down through all my campaign pledges at the recent UGM, demonstrating that of my campaign wishes and promises, all the main ones have been met and of the secondary ones, the outstanding item is the canteen TVs (which the canteen people now don't have an issue with being turned on but for cost saving and funding reasons I have folded into the ongoing radio project discussions which means that that particular five-year issue is now actually possible to fix as soon as the radio issue with Mary I and LIT (aka Wired) has been sorted -and that's a problem that's been going on for about five years through all of my predecessors that most of you will remember though it's now looking promising as no-one else went to talk to them to try and get the problem sorted out for the past five years, which as I found out might have been helpful)

Now, let's deal with the paper being late, which has happened a few times. There are two notable occasions - the last issue before Christmas was late because I crashed my car into a pole while delivering the files. It arrived in week 13 which while annoying (and you've all got no idea how sick to the core it made me as I was obviously the one who crashed the car) the main supplement (the exam one) was still there before the exams. A more recent edition (the first of term two) was late for two reasons. There was an issue with the designer, who for unforeseen and acceptable personal reasons couldn't do the paper that weekend. This wouldn't have mattered had the files been delivered earlier but some of the the files for the main supplement were delivered to me after and during the previous weekend by the person responsible when they needed to be sent before the weekend for me to do them over that weekend so the whole thing was put back three days. Specific space kept for specific people every issue this year has been something of a problem. The people in question have since been told that while they have a duty to use their space and use it wisely in a way that it can be useful to students and informative to students, where they fail to hit deadlines or make arrangements for the content, they can't hold up the paper any more as it's unfair to those who want to read it. In that last specific case, the content referred to a specific themed SU week that had to be included and my view on the content arriving late was that much of it really could have been sent to me before Christmas but as it happened it wasn't. I will have specific recommendations for Aoife as my successor on such happenings in order that it doesn't happen during her tenure.

In addition to the above, the paper's been a day or two late on occasion (and more often than I'd like but a day late isn't so bad, typical for An Focal but it's been there on the relevant Tuesday more often than not). Small mistakes on the design end I usually let through, serious issues have to be sent back to be fixed. Unfortunately the designer is available to work on weekends only and that's a problem at times. We're not the Limerick leader or the Irish Times and An Focal has to be done on the cheap. At the moment I'm covering the costs through advertising and that's something of a first (though the advertising does trail off a bit at the end of the year).

The last paper was delivered a day early. That's because I've figured out how to add (not edit, add, yes computer heads, you know that's supposed to be pretty much impossible) unembedded content to the PDF files I get back from the designer so it means that some of the stuff doesn't have to be sent back. Where there's any knockon effect from the designer we can miss our printing slot (and again, not being the Irish Times, we do it on an affordable basis, the paper comes up from Tralee) and we don't have clout that someone looking for 40,000 copies of another newspaper (yes, I'm looking at you, Limerick Post) have. Hence, being able to poke at the files with a good PDF editor or a hex editor helps (and again for the computer heads, editing a file intended for publication with a hex editor isn't pretty)

cooperguy wrote: »

+1

Sceptre what do you make of this point:

Because the Publications and Publicity officer has never written a press release; refuses to consider updating the website let alone making it accessible to people with disabilities; can’t seem to organise publicity for any event no matter how big or small as well as the obvious issues with regard to An Focal and Review.

People were saying it isnt accurate on the SU forum. Comments?

The publications have had issues. I'm more aware of that than anyone else as I know when the paper actually gets delivered (you all may pick it up immediately or after a few days but I'm the guy out there with the trolley delivering it and if it's late, I know exactly by how much).

The website is aesthetically terrible (I'm slightly limited for the moment because the CMS behind the site has to stay as my replacement was unlikely to be any good at php and I assume Aoife as a HPSS graduate isn't). With regard to making it accessible for people with disabilities there are experts in the college whose job it is to make the UL site disability-accessible (not that it is - our site is far more disability-accessible without specific software than theirs is) but unfortunately they don't work for me and I can't afford to hire them to do it as a nixer. I've tested the site with speech recognition software and while it's not as good as it should be in that regard, it's more accessible with speech recognition software than 10 out of the 11 sites from other SU's that I tested (and that was an empirical test - two sites including ours worked, the other 10 didn't).

Updating (as in content) the webpage is an ongoing issue, apart from the obvious dealings with officers on a day-by-day basis every class reps report from me that I can remember has included a request for updated content from fellow exec members and those who have provided it have had their content updated. Every SU officer is responsible for their own content (as it should be), I'm responsible for uploading it.

Part of the trouble with An Focal is because of the design and printing constraints, it begins to be put together a week in advance (except for news, which I run all the way to the previous Friday (or in one case, Sunday). It's easier to organise publicity for events if it's been decided where they're going to be on and when they're going to be on and in the case of the paper before it goes off to be printed (look at the recent societies week page - the timetable was provided on time, included on time and the paper came out on time). Unfortunately chasing after people for details doesn't always work when they don't know themselves and that's a big difficulty for me with the 'themed' weeks. I'd much prefer to be able to let people know about events before they happen rather then merely running a report (positive or negative, another new development for the student paper) after the thing is over. Posters are put up around the college once a week, any I receive by close of business on Friday (which for me is about 9pm, after that I go home and work there as it's nice to pretend it's the weekend) are put up on Monday (the poster boards are cleared by security on random weekends so it's pointless wasting money by putting them up over the weekend). More recently I've had a few people to help with the posters so they can put them up if the posters haven't been given to me on Friday. Which is rather a help as things obviously don't always arrive on time.

As for the press release part? That's obviously bollocks. I'm happy to answer that one simply.

I wish Judith well, as do all the SU people. She's given over eight months to the job and I'm sure she'll do well in her future endeavours.


On a lighter note, congrats to Aoife (as PPO for next year), Bubbles (as Welfare officer) and Damien (as CSO). As my current plan is to do fourth year of that degree I love so much next year, I'm up for lending any of them a hand if they need to, particularly Aoife obviously, who'll at least have the advantage of having her predecessor around all year to help, which hasn't happened in years and years.

bluedolphin

dedon wrote: »

I have to disagree with you on your last point. This is a third level Uni of a very high standard with very intelligent people. I am sure that we can create a paper that is very good if it is managed by a very good and capable person.

You have stated that students do not know what they are doing unless they get training??? Are you for real?? I think many of us have the ability to put a good article together. They do not all need to be trained on how to write a great article. If it is interesting and topical and informative then it should be sufficent. The editor has a responsibility to release a paper that us students should be proud of. We should aim to have the best college paper in Ireland and not simply blaim it on the fact that students in a third level institution are not capable to do this due to lack of training.

I think you are a bit misguided. Writing for a newspaper requires talent. There are talented writers and not-so-talented writers; just like in any profession. The problem with An Focal is two-fold:
(1) There aren't that many people who will (a) write at all (b) write regularly. Therefore, supply of articles is low enough and thus the editor/PPO doesn't have much 'choice' as to what is printed.

(2) Those who do write are only doing it as a hobby or maybe as building a portfolio, if they are that way inclined. There is no journalism course in UL. This will all change in September when the new BA/MA come into being. I hope that we can tap into the talent that this will bring. I don't envisage purely handing over the paper to the 'real' journos, but I hope that by having people who are keen in that industry will increase the overall standard of the paper by increasing the supply of articles and thus create a Darwinianesque competition for space in the paper!
However, just because there's a BA in journalism doesn't mean there aren't good writers in HPSS, English and History, English and New Media, LCS, Engineering...maybe even Comp Sys It's a matter of installing an interest and keeping it alive.

dedon wrote: »

Harass??? Anyway, just expressing an opinion here really to be honest. I am not going to keep going on about An Focal because I feel we will disagree the whole time. However I would love to see a poll done in the paper asking students what they think of it.

Furthermore, I have to agree with previous posters that Judith's resignation will provide a much needed shake up in the SU. Throughout my six years in UL, I can safetly say that this is the most interesting thing to happen. I havent felt well represented at all. Peolpe have the opinion that the SU is for self gratitude and this applies to the position of PPO more so than the others over the last few years. A scapegoat to journalism etc

In a way I kind of agree with you. It's a sharp reality bite that the SU needs to re-evaluate where it is and where it's going. It is harsh crash back down to the earth, but hopefully we can rescue it.

rmacm wrote: »

Congrads on the new job.

Thankies

scary_tractors wrote: »

Sorry dedon, just to be clear I didn't mean that as an insult to the students who write for the paper. Intelligent people do not necessarily make good journalists. And journalists, like any other profession, require training. Believe it or not there is a certain amount of skill required to write news. Most people who are intelligent and have an issue can write an opinion piece (hence so many bloggers appearing who are trained as something else but do very well) but news is a skill in itself and people do have to be trained.

I agree entirely. News is not easy to write. But writing itself is a continuous learning curve. Ask anyone in the industry. You constantly aim to improve yourself and you're only ever as good as your last article. Sometimes you'll write a good one, and then your next one will be shíte.

But there is a certain amount that can be learned: structure, grammar, spelling, punctuation - these are the glue that holds the words together and without which the article begins to crumble.

scary_tractors wrote: »

And yes, I do agree that the paper can be good if managed by a capable person. But there does need to be training and from what I can see the PPO's duties are too widespread to allow them to concentrate on An Focal enough for it to be a really great paper.

There are a lot of duties under the office of PPO, but not as many as were under its predecessor CCO. In the main, however, An Focal takes up the most time of the officer. I have worked very closely with four editors at this stage, each with their strengths and weaknesses, but their common denominator has been the pressure and stress that each faced every fortnight after the writing deadline to edit and put together the paper. It's not an easy job at all and I think people need to understand that. There are only so many hours in a day.

bluedolphin

sceptre wrote: »

*Sceptre's big long post*

Hehe, you may regret still being on campus.

sceptre

bluedolphin wrote: »

Hehe, you may regret still being on campus.

If I change my email and phone number next year you'll never be able to find me:p (until I shuffle into your office with the 'Want anything written there missus?' line)

rmacm

dedon wrote: »

General opinion around the college is that the Paper is very poor this year. Ask anyone about it.

dedon wrote: »

Come on just ask the general student population what they think of the paper this year ans the majority will say it is poor.

dedon wrote: »

However I would love to see a poll done in the paper asking students what they think of it.

dedon to be more specific about what I was on about last night, in my mind at least your first two statements above and your last one are not easily reconcilable. You've stated twice that the vast majority of students think the paper is crap yet you've got no evidence to prove this and then you say you'd love to see a poll in the paper on peoples opinions regarding An Focal.

I apologise for being so anal about it but as most people who know me will tell you, that's just the way I am . Anyway it appears that we're going around in circles here so I'm done for the moment at least.

rmacm

sceptre wrote: »

The website is aesthetically terrible (I'm slightly limited for the moment because the CMS behind the site has to stay as my replacement was unlikely to be any good at php and I assume Aoife as a HPSS graduate isn't).

The whole idea of a CMS is to remove the need to be familiar with PHP/<whatever scripting language you prefer> unless you intend on hacking the CMS (as you probably know already). You mind if I ask what CMS is behind the site at the moment?

Editing pdf files with a hex editor and I thought I had it bad having to write software corrections for telephone exchanges in assembly.