Overtaking against traffic in the dark

Omcd

I'm beginning to think some drivers actually think they have a right to pull out and overtake and the oncoming traffic is obliged to get out of the way. It's just happening more and more often. Last night was forced into the hard shoulder by a motorbike nutter doing a Joey Dunlop past a line of cars, only to have a car come flying out of a side road after missing the stop line due to approaching it too fast and had to swerve between the two at 100ks and almost got punted into the line of oncoming traffic. Same stretch of road last month went around a bend, and was confronted with a scene like as if going up the Nass Road on the wrong side, went for hard shoulder in pitch dark (at 100k) only to discover it was only half a car width and almost ploughed a tree. Before Christmas, again on same stretch of road some oncoming lunatic in a car pulled out ahead of me as if I wasn't there to floor it past a line of cars, there was only a bicycle width hard shoulder, so had to swerve in and out of walled lay by in front of someones house at 100k in the pitch dark to avoid him. Someday I'm going to hit an unlit pedestrian or cyclist if not a solid obstruction while being forced over in the dark by some idiot overtaking with no regard to oncoming traffic - these people seem to assume in the dark that there is a car width hard shoulder across the yellow line in which there is room for oncoming to take refuge, but this is often not the case.

Am I just unlucky, or has anyone else experienced this ? Does anyone here think that the overtaking vehicles are within their rights to force oncoming traffic over ? And why, in heavy traffic, do people think there is a point in overtaking 5 cars when there is miles of traffic all travelling at the same speed ahead ?

There is talk of average speed cameras being deployed to reduce speed on some roads. I think these would also reduce incidences of dangerous overtaking.

blackbox

Omcd wrote: »

There is talk of average speed cameras being deployed to reduce speed on some roads. I think these would also reduce incidences of dangerous overtaking.

You can overtake dangerously without exceeding the speed limit.

I agree with you that there is a lot of inconsiderate and downright dangerous driving.

Speed cameras are not the answer.

astraboy

Yes there are a lot of bad drivers out there. Hardly news though is it? People often resort to silly overtaking due to frustration. Speed cameras, or average speed cameras won't solve this. More cops on the roads might, and people showing consideration to others and pulling over if your a slow prick dadaling along a 45mph would probably solve the issue straight away. Road quality is another issue, with fewer are fewer places to overtake. So the issue is not just "Speed", please look at the bigger picture.

smemon

Yeah there's time i feel like pulling out and just overtaking a 10 car convery on blind bends just to teach the guy at the top a lesson and make him say - jesus look at that eejit.

I often pull in to let oncoming cars past if i think the cars body language suggest they want past - i don't need a big wide road, they need it more than me.

Provided it's safe and there's no pedestrians/blind turn offs up ahead and i know the road of course

The main cause of accidents is slow drivers. I have no stats to prove it, but i see it all the time. People forced in to taking risks because other people can't keep up with traffic.

There should be penalty points and fines for slow driving, just as there are for fast driving as they are equally dangerous imo.

astraboy

smemon wrote: »

Yeah there's time i feel like pulling out and just overtaking a 10 car convery on blind bends just to teach the guy at the top a lesson and make him say - jesus look at that eejit.

I often pull in to let oncoming cars past if i think the cars body language suggest they want past - i don't need a big wide road, they need it more than me.

Provided it's safe and there's no pedestrians/blind turn offs up ahead and i know the road of course

The main cause of accidents is slow drivers. I have no stats to prove it, but i see it all the time. People forced in to taking risks because other people can't keep up with traffic.

There should be penalty points and fines for slow driving, just as there are for fast driving as they are equally dangerous imo.

Well said. I was thinking I was going insane and that certain people on this forum were completely detached from reality and what happens on our roads.

Gregor Samsa

astraboy wrote: »

people showing consideration to others and pulling over if your a slow prick dadaling along a 45mph would probably solve the issue straight away.

Actually, in my experience, it doesn't. I see it a lot on the narrow roads around Clare and Galway. A tractor (or whatever) pulls in as much as he can (the hard shoulder usually isn't wide enough to accommodate the full width of the vehicle), and the car(s) behind overtake regardless of the oncoming traffic, forcing them to move to the HS on their side - which isnt' necessairily safe.

Just because someone pulls in to give some space to overtake, doesn't mean it's actually safe to do so.

D_murph

phutyle wrote: »

Just because someone pulls in to give some space to overtake, doesn't mean it's actually safe to do so.

X2 but theres no excuse for holding up traffic if there is space to let people out safely either IMO.

it involves common sense on both sides

KerranJast

I drive a lot at night and what really annoys me is people who drive everywhere with dipped headlights meaning you can't see more than a car length ahead of them on the road making it impossible to overtake them safely (there could be a dip ahead in the road obscuring oncoming traffic). It's also incredibly dangerous for them and others as there could be pedestrians on the road verge ahead out of range of their dipped lights that they won't see until the last minute.

D_murph

KerranJast wrote: »

I drive a lot at night and what really annoys me is people who drive everywhere with dipped headlights meaning you can't see more than a car length ahead of them on the road making it impossible to overtake them safely (there could be a dip ahead in the road obscuring oncoming traffic). It's also incredibly dangerous for them and others as there could be pedestrians on the road verge ahead out of range of their dipped lights that they won't see until the last minute.

i find it more annoying when people leave the full headlights on you after you overtake them in some twisted effort to make you "pay" for overtaking them :rolleyes:. even on dual carriageways, muppets :mad:

javaboy

D_murph wrote: »

i find it more annoying when people leave the full headlights on you after you overtake them in some twisted effort to make you "pay" for overtaking them :rolleyes:. even on dual carriageways, muppets :mad:

That's annoying alright but not nearly as annoying as the ones who overtake you after for 'revenge'! Then they go back to cruising at the slow speed they were at before :mad:

KerranJast

javaboy wrote: »

That's annoying alright but not nearly as annoying as the ones who overtake you after for 'revenge'! Then they go back to cruising at the slow speed they were at before :mad:

I used to get that all the time when I had the L plates up. If I overtook some dozy f'er in a Beemer driving at 60kph in a 100kph (possibly fiddling with his bluetooth headset ) he'd bomb on the road again and swing in right in front of me and slow right down to a crawl again.

javaboy

KerranJast wrote: »

I used to get that all the time when I had the L plates up. If I overtook some dozy f'er in a Beemer driving at 60kph in a 100kph (possibly fiddling with his bluetooth headset ) he'd bomb on the road again and swing in right in front of me and slow right down to a crawl again.

Strangely enough since the L plates went down a few months ago, the number of incidences of this has shrivelled up like a California raisin.

KerranJast

javaboy wrote: »

Strangely enough since the L plates went down a few months ago, the number of incidences of this has shrivelled up like a California raisin.

Same here. Hmm I wonder if this is a pattern? :rolleyes:

BarryCreed

was driving out of moneygall on way to roscrea last week, and an artic truck overtook me. I was going 60 mph. Trucks and traffic coming in the opposite direction had to pull in, and traffic in front of me had to pull in. He basically bullied his way up the road. He was right up my arse from limerick city. I called the police on him, but as it was dark, I didnt get the reg, and there were no markngs as such on the truck. i passed a few more generic looking ones after but wasn't him..a right f**king c**t. I'd hate to think what he'd do in a car.....

D_murph

BarryCreed wrote: »

I'd hate to think what he'd do in a car.....

not much id say tbh, in a car he'd be another mere mortal like the rest of us but i bet he feels safer in a big truck where he can "be above it all" the tool :rolleyes:

Tea drinker

Yeah,
I really hate this kind of poor quality inconsiderate driving.
To expect people to pull out of the way while you overtake is absolutley stupid. All it takes is another Mad Max coming the opposite direction or someone not concentrating on their driving for absolute carnage.
There is no excuse for it at all. If you or your car is not capable of making a safe overtaking manouever just STFU.

I've often seen people overtake on a bend with no view in front only the car they are following, you get a couple of guys doing it and they think it's safe, sort of formation driving. And yeah, the guy in front might make it, doesn't mean his good luck tranfers to you when the Artic hits.

Yeah, one of my hates would be the retard who tailgates, or even flashes at you to break the speed limit. Lets face it, if he was such a good driver in such a good car, surely he can manage to control himself or make an overtaking manouever? Or failing that be in Australia this weekend on the front row of the grid. Asshats.

astraboy

Tea drinker wrote: »

Yeah,

I've often seen people overtake on a bend with no view in front only the car they are following, you get a couple of guys doing it and they think it's safe, sort of formation driving. And yeah, the guy in front might make it, doesn't mean his good luck tranfers to you when the Artic hits.

I see this a lot, its like people can't decide themselves when its safe to pass out! I'll make my own decisions on when to overtake, not based on what the guy in the car in front does!

Omcd

blackbox wrote: »

You can overtake dangerously without exceeding the speed limit.

I agree with you that there is a lot of inconsiderate and downright dangerous driving.

Speed cameras are not the answer.

Granted you can overtake dangerously at any speed.

But the people who tend to like blasting by 4 or 5 cars at a time without any consideration to other traffic (which appears to cause the most carnage on our roads) generally dont have any consideration for the speed limits either. So if average cameras were deployed, this would discourage them from such overtaking where the traffic they are is travelling at close to the limit. If the traffic is not travelling close to the limit, then IMO overtaking is ok so long as its done safely and with consideration to other road users

I forgot to mention another experience last weekend (so many now I'm losing count) between Navan and Kells where I met an oncoming car that was coming around a left hand curve and overtaking on a ghost island and the driver was fighting to regain control of it after losing it on the bumpy road markings (luckly he succeeded - Im here to tell the tale). If there were average cameras deployed on that stretch maybe the drivers mind would have been on keeping to speedlimit instead of on
overtaking everything in sight.

astraboy

It can often be safer to break the speed limit to overtake in good time. The less time spent on the other side of the road the better as far as I am concerned. I often do this, speed up to maybe 110Kph and overtake, then go back below the limit after the manover and continue on my journey. I perfer people to watch the road, not their speed. Average speed cameras are a jib as well, you'll have people slow right down on the last mile of a stretch.

Sundy

Omcd wrote: »

Granted you can overtake dangerously at any speed.



I forgot to mention another experience last weekend (so many now I'm losing count) between Navan and Kells where I met an oncoming car that was coming around a left hand curve and overtaking on a ghost island and the driver was fighting to regain control of it after losing it on the bumpy road markings (luckly he succeeded - Im here to tell the tale). If there were average cameras deployed on that stretch maybe the drivers mind would have been on keeping to speedlimit instead of on
overtaking everything in sight.

How would u lose control of a car on bumpy road markings, i mean there rarely more than 3/4 mm high.. Actually what made u think he was out of control?

Haz33

I was on dual carriageway the other day doing 110kph ( yes Iknow its a 100kph limit but it's a dual carriageway ) on the inside lane when I was over taken by an artic. Now to be overtaken meant he had to be doing more than 110kph. This is happening more often and its a disgrace. By law this vehicle should be restricted to 80kph, and before you ask it was irish reg. I dont have statistics but from what I can see half the truck drivers in the country are breaking the law. I do agree 80kph is too slow on a motorway for a truck but the law is the law.
Also too much gets blamed on speed. A guy stoned out of his head hits a wall and its blamed on speed because he was doing 120kph.
A guy hits a car and kills someone. It was speed cause he was doing 120kph. Was it F**k. He was overtaking coming into a bend. He was a moron. If you overtake coming into a bend and hit something its stupitidty not speed. Try it at 50kph and you may still kill someone. You can quite hapily drive around this country at 120kph if you are a good driver and are careful not stupid. As for slow drivers I know a Garda who got chastised in court for bringing up someone for doing 40kph on the motorway and the case was thrown out. So I think we a flogging a dead horse!

javaboy

Haz33 wrote: »

I was on dual carriageway the other day doing 110kph ( yes Iknow its a 100kph limit but it's a dual carriageway ) on the inside lane when I was over taken by an artic. Now to be overtaken meant he had to be doing more than 110kph. This is happening more often and its a disgrace. By law this vehicle should be restricted to 80kph, and before you ask it was irish reg. I dont have statistics but from what I can see half the truck drivers in the country are breaking the law. I do agree 80kph is too slow on a motorway for a truck but the law is the law.
Also too much gets blamed on speed. A guy stoned out of his head hits a wall and its blamed on speed because he was doing 120kph.
A guy hits a car and kills someone. It was speed cause he was doing 120kph. Was it F**k. He was overtaking coming into a bend. He was a moron. If you overtake coming into a bend and hit something its stupitidty not speed. Try it at 50kph and you may still kill someone. You can quite hapily drive around this country at 120kph if you are a good driver and are careful not stupid. As for slow drivers I know a Garda who got chastised in court for bringing up someone for doing 40kph on the motorway and the case was thrown out. So I think we a flogging a dead horse!

You might have contradicted yourself a couple of times there.

tech77

astraboy wrote: »

It can often be safer to break the speed limit to overtake in good time. The less time spent on the other side of the road the better as far as I am concerned. I often do this, speed up to maybe 110Kph and overtake, then go back below the limit after the manover and continue on my journey. I perfer people to watch the road, not their speed.

Well said.
I've become so obsessed with keeping my speed down lately that I have in the past tried to institute a strict policy of overtaking at an even 100 instead (the "perfect" overtake so to speak).
Now I think fcuk that:
The less time I spend on the other side of the road is more important than keeping it under 100 while I overtake.
Crazy what a stupid obsesssion with keeping your speed down can do to someone.

Also if I was overtaking and exceeded the limit ever so slightly while doing so, and I saw a cop car, my natural instinct would be to get below 100 while i'm overtaking- paradoxically making things more unsafe.
Again obsession with keeping speed down doesn't necessarily always translate into safer driving.

_Kaiser_

I'd be one of those who thinks the less time spent on the opposite side of the road the better as well.

With regards to slow drivers, I commute on the N3 daily and I've found that people seem to have less trouble driving at the limit (if safe/appropriate to do so etc etc) when coming from the Dublin side, but dawdle along at 60-80 if coming from the opposite direction - maybe it's just me, but it's something I've noticed in the past month or so.

Then you have the clowns like the black 4x4/SUV driver (complete with limo black windows) towing one of those mini-diggers on a trailer outside Navan yesterday evening (rush hour) who held a whole queue of traffic behind him while he plodded along at 60 km/h. Think he'd move into that nice lane-sized hard shoulder with plenty of visibility every so often so a few cars could get by? Nope! :mad:
Eventually - several miles later - I got my chance and managed to get past him and the other 3 dawdling idiots behind him (and yes, I admit.. I did lean on the horn rather hard as I passed him ), but as others noted, it's inconsiderate, slow drivers like this that cause half the problems on the roads.

Personally I'd be in favor of all HGV's (and especially all these tractors towing heavy equipment I see lately) being banned from major roads during rush hour, but of course if there was more enforcement on the roads (beyond the cynical revenue-gathering of course) that'd be a good start.

cyclopath2001

smemon wrote: »

The main cause of accidents is slow drivers. I have no stats to prove it, but i see it all the time. People forced in to taking risks because other people can't keep up with traffic.

That's just wrong-minded blame-shifting. It's like saying that the main cause of muggings is that people don't run fast enough.

Del2005

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Personally I'd be in favor of all HGV's (and especially all these tractors towing heavy equipment I see lately) being banned from major roads during rush hour, but of course if there was more enforcement on the roads (beyond the cynical revenue-gathering of course) that'd be a good start.

Why not ban private cars and force people to use public transport at rush hour. If all the 1 person cars where off the road then there would be no rush hour:D

A HGV is delivering something somewhere that people want and have no other way of getting it delivered. Do you want the shop shelfs empty or factories reducing hours so people can drive on their own into work?

Del2005

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

That's just wrong-minded blame-shifting. It's like saying that the main cause of muggings is that people don't run fast enough.

People who drive slowly on major roads then to go really slow on bends then speed up on straights so people can't overtake safely. If they maintained the slow speed they would be safer but since they floor it on the straights they fustrate drivers who are capable of maintaining progess around bends. I've had several occasions of where someone going slowly accelerates when I start to overtake them, I'm commited to doing the overtake and the gobsh!te I'm overtaking decides now is the time to speed up when I'm on the opposite side of the road. That's how they cause accidents

People driving on major roads should be able to drive at a reasonable pace, if they can't drive at or near the limit on dry roads in daylight then they should pull out of the way and stop obstructing traffic that can. And if they aren't confident enough to drive at or near the limit on major roads at night they should stay off them.

All this only applies to major roads not the sh!tty back roads where people tend to fly along at 80km/h regardless of how safe it is.

cyclopath2001

Del2005 wrote: »

People driving on major roads should be able to drive at a reasonable pace, if they can't drive at or near the limit on dry roads in daylight then they should pull out of the way and stop obstructing traffic that can. And if they aren't confident enough to drive at or near the limit on major roads at night they should stay off them.

The speed limits that you want everyone to drive at, are only safe under ideal conditions. Many wise drivers might choose, as required by law, to drive at a lower speed compatible with their level of confidence, the road conditions or the capability of their vehicle.

If you want to want to insist that drivers should be reasonable and considerate and not hold others up, then, let's also tackle the gross waste of space posed by single-occupant cars travelling at 6kph in city traffic or parked on valuable street-space.

astraboy

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

The speed limits that you want everyone to drive at, are only safe under ideal conditions. Many wise drivers might choose, as required by law, to drive at a lower speed compatible with their level of confidence, the road conditions or the capability of their vehicle.

If you want to want to insist that drivers should be reasonable and considerate and not hold others up, then, let's also tackle the gross waste of space posed by single-occupant cars travelling at 6kph in city traffic or parked on valuable street-space.

Good Grief. I think, yes, I might.....actually agree with you on this one!:) What a turn up for the books! Yes speed limits are there for ideal conditions, I rarely exceed them(thats another thread) but I am often driving under them due to consideration for the conditions. Common sense really.

My issue, and most people issue is not with slow drivers per se. It is with a combination of a slow driver and inconsideration for others on the road. If you are not comfortable making good progress on the road(and the definition of good progress depends on the conditions!) then you should not really be on the road. However, if you insist on driving slower then is reasonable for conditions, or you are towing a boat/trailer etc, pull in every so often and let others pass. If you are going slowly a few seconds on the side of the road will make marginal difference to you, however it shows courtesy and respect to those behind you and helps prevent frustration for a genuine reason.

Obviously this can be applied to people that drive too fast as well, they are not showing respect or consideration to others on the road either. (in my view "too fast" and going over the speed are not one and the same, they may or may not be, we'll have to disagree on that. My feelings towards stupidly low limits has been made clear.) It also applies to those not paying attention, texting while driving, not indicating and hogging the overtaking lane!

As for city traffic, well down here in Cork the bus service is actually a joke, I see the clamper van around my area more then I see the number 5, so that pretty much sums up the city councils and the Governments priorities as far as I'm concerned. People do not like using an overpriced, unreliable and shoddy service, no matter what it is. Public transport is great, when it is properly planned for! Other cities I have lived in it is a dream to use, in Ireland it is a disgrace TBH.

Seth Brundle

Slow drivers don't force impatient drivers to pass and/or crash. That is something they did all by themselves. However, you would have to question whether the incident would have occured if the slow driver wasn't driving as slow/had allowed those behind to pass.

cyclopath2001

astraboy wrote: »

If you are not comfortable making good progress on the road(and the definition of good progress depends on the conditions!) then you should not really be on the road.

It is possible for someone to lack confidence but to still be a safe driver. It may be frustrating for strong, fit, advanced drivers like yourself, whose cars are the epitome of modern motor engineering, but a just society is judged on its tolerance and sympathy for the weakness of others.

You've justified the stupid waste of road space in our cities as being caused by public transport not being of an acceptable standard for drivers. Is it not also true that in rural areas, these slow, frustrating drivers that you want to banish from your sight, have no public transport at all and rely on their cars?

Perhaps you only want to share the road with people like yourself?