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Why does Ireland have no right wing nationalist party?

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24

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    #32
    lostexpectation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,082 ✭✭✭lostexpectation


    berliner wrote: »
    Are the BNP racist? What is a racist? I checked their website because I like to have the full picture.Are they full of hate? I'll be lashed by the PC brigade but i didn't think so after reading stuff on their website.

    im not going to lash you im just going to ask you not to play dumb.


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    #33
    berliner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 420 ✭✭berliner


    i'm not "dumb" just sceptical.When the vast majority say one thing and lash anyone who dissents then you should be sceptical and get the full picture for yourself.


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    #34
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Hagar wrote: »
    When unification comes will FF continue to enjoy their cosy position?
    Don't you mean "if"?
    berliner wrote: »
    Are the BNP racist?
    In a word, yes.
    berliner wrote: »
    What is a racist?
    :rolleyes:
    berliner wrote: »
    I checked their website because I like to have the full picture.
    Did you read this:
    The British National Party exists to secure a future for the indigenous peoples of these islands in the North Atlantic which have been our homeland for millennia. We use the term indigenous to describe the people whose ancestors were the earliest settlers here after the last great Ice Age and which have been complemented by the historic migrations from mainland Europe. The migrations of the Celts, Anglo-Saxons, Danes, Norse and closely related kindred peoples have been, over the past few thousands years, instrumental in defining the character of our family of nations.
    It is impossible to trace one's roots back thousands of years with any degree of accuracy. So, how do they determine who is "indigenous" and who is not? By the colour of one's skin of course (even though it is quite possible to be white and have Asian/African ancestors). The fact that there membership is entirely white is also something of a giveaway.
    dsmythy wrote: »
    Why not? Nobody had to accept the Irish when they went around the world and we shouldn't have to accept people if we don't want to.
    But the vast majority of Irish people DO want immigration, largely because we need it.

    On the subject of right-wing parties in Ireland, I’m surprised nobody has mentioned these muppets.


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    #35
    bartholomewbinn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 138 ✭✭bartholomewbinn


    “ But the vast majority of Irish people DO want immigration, largely because we need it.”

    Why do we need immigration? According to the latest economic forecasts Ireland is not going to create ANY new jobs next year. If there are no new jobs being created we will have higher unemployment among our own people, we certainly will not need to import labour.


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    #36
    The_Minister
    Registered Users Posts: 10,255 ✭✭✭✭The_Minister


    jimbo78 wrote: »
    The PD's are right wing enough for most people I reckon.
    :confused:Once again you show your complete ignorance of Irish politics.
    The Progessive Democrats are members of the ELDR, who attend the national conference, because they recognise the Progressive Democrats as a liberal party.

    On the other hand, Fine Gael is allied with the Tories.
    Who is more right-wing?

    What party has suggested bootcamps for young people, making prisoners pay for jail?

    The Progressive Democrats are a liberal party, both economically and socially (genuinely liberal not authoritarian pseudo-liberal), so their policies tend to be a mix of left and right, like most modern parties.


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    #37
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    bartholomewbinn wrote: »
    Why do we need immigration? According to the latest economic forecasts Ireland is not going to create ANY new jobs next year. If there are no new jobs being created we will have higher unemployment among our own people, we certainly will not need to import labour.
    I find that very hard to believe - are you saying that there will not be one single new job available over the next year?

    Besides, just because unemployment is rising, doesn't mean we don't need immigrants to plug holes in certain areas, such as science, engineering and the health professions, for example.


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    #38
    duggie-89
    Closed Accounts Posts: 168 ✭✭duggie-89


    welli would say the PD are quite right wing but not all their policies mainly the ones that people see most off.

    i would agree FG are def seen to be the more right wing of parties.

    and i dont understand how people can claim that alot of SF supportters are right wing aka "fill that void"

    SF are a left party that believes in the national self determination of a people.


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    #39
    guinnessdrinker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭guinnessdrinker


    djpbarry wrote: »
    I find that very hard to believe - are you saying that there will not be one single new job available over the next year?

    I think what he is talking about is the ESRI report that was published yesterday that stated that there will be no net employment growth. There will still be jobs being created of course but the jobs being lost are going to affect the overall figure.


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    #40
    bartholomewbinn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 138 ✭✭bartholomewbinn


    http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0314/economy.html

    This is what I am talking about. “The result of that it says will be that overall, no new jobs will be added to the Irish economy for the first time since 1991.”
    And if we need to plug holes in engineering, science and the health service we should first of all be plugging them with Irish people. But of course in relation to the health service, we always seem to be relying on non national doctors, and lately nurses as well,
    As an aside, nurses from the Philippines are brilliant. Not only professional and efficient, but polite and warm hearted too. In contrast to a lot of our own Irish nurses.


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    #41
    gordon_gekko
    Closed Accounts Posts: 412 ✭✭gordon_gekko


    duggie-89 wrote: »
    welli would say the PD are quite right wing but not all their policies mainly the ones that people see most off.

    i would agree FG are def seen to be the more right wing of parties.

    and i dont understand how people can claim that alot of SF supportters are right wing aka "fill that void"

    SF are a left party that believes in the national self determination of a people.


    ive met quite a few sinn fein voters over the yrs and the only ones who were socially liberal were young sf voters from middle class areas who just voted sf to look trendy


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    #42
    guinnessdrinker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭guinnessdrinker


    gordon_gekko wrote: »
    ive met quite a few sinn fein voters over the yrs and the only ones who were socially liberal were young sf voters from middle class areas who just voted sf to look trendy

    Bit of a generalisaton there. You could make that assumption about any social group voting for any party imo.


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    #43
    Rebeller
    Closed Accounts Posts: 271 ✭✭Rebeller


    berliner wrote: »
    Yeah,that would explain it.Sinn Fein must be unique in the world in the fact they're ultra nationalist yet left wing and in favour of unrestricted immigration.

    ROFL. You've obviously never met the real Sinn Fein; the less media-savvy, presentable members of the organisation who would be just as eager as the current (mal)administration to pitch a tent at the Galway races.

    There are no real left-wing parties in this country: left-wing movements yes, parties no.


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    #44
    dsmythy
    Registered Users Posts: 10,518 ✭✭✭✭dsmythy


    djpbarry wrote: »
    But the vast majority of Irish people DO want immigration, largely because we need it.

    On the subject of right-wing parties in Ireland, I’m surprised nobody has mentioned these muppets.

    Some immigration people have no problem with, including me. If we had a goal for 20% of the population not to be Irish then people may think differently about that.

    Often the talk comes down to money in pockets. Not everyone is so materialistic and you have to wonder who the loudest voices are when you hear them saying "We need them". My opinion is they are not the average worker out there in general and that they tend to be people making money out of cheap labour.

    I'd hardly call the ICP a party.


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    #45
    duggie-89
    Closed Accounts Posts: 168 ✭✭duggie-89


    gordon_gekko wrote: »
    ive met quite a few sinn fein voters over the yrs and the only ones who were socially liberal were young sf voters from middle class areas who just voted sf to look trendy

    i would naturally enough disagree. firstly i think you cant just say that they voted for SF just to look trendy i mean voting isn't a picture fest people may say who there voting for but you wont know for sure.

    i have meet just as many if not more being a Firm SF supporter and i can say that if what your saying is that the only SF supporters/members who weren't liberal were the old hands, ok IMO your totaly wrong and also SF has a high propotion of young members who in you opinion are liberal.

    to be honest i dont know why i am even talking about it, i thought it was pretty obvious.


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    #46
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Surely Sinn Fein would be the closest 'Irish equivalent' to the British National Party? by which I mean that in the same way the BNP foster a 'Nationalistic British identity' at the expense of any & all other cultures in Britain, Sinn Fein would do the same here (& up North), in other words they would 'eradicate' any sense of 'Britishness' by chasing or imposing their 'Extreme Irish Nationalist' views on all & everybody (if they got the chance). in the same way as the BNP would do in Britain (if they too got the chance).

    The BNP are a staunchly British Nationalist Party/ Movement who are extreme in their aims to rid Britain of all other cultures in the same way as Sinn Fein would Love the Tricolour to dominate Ireland (North & South) at the expense of any other culture (ie British culture)!

    Another parallel I would draw between the (BNP & SF) would be the use of the Tricolour by Sinn Fein/ IRA, and the Hijacking of the St George Cross by the BNP, which thankfully the 'people' have reclaimed both here & in England in very recent years, but the similarity still remains ~ two very Nationalistic/ Violent movements trying to impose 'their' idea of Nationalism & National identity on the people ....................

    Thats just one way of looking at it.


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    #47
    berliner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 420 ✭✭berliner


    BNP a "violent movement". Have they ever planted bombs etc.No.


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    #48
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    OK, I agree the BNP are /never were as extreme & violent as the IRA, & I agree that the BNP never planted bombs or shot people ~ but surely you must agree to an extent that the BNP have somewhat of an air of menace about them & their 'White purest' ideology?


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    #49
    Het-Field
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,350 ✭✭✭Het-Field


    Most countries with Far Right influences have tended to be (historical) colonial/imperial powers. England, Germany, Russia, France, and Belgium have the most prominant far right aka Neo Nazi forces. They have been colonisers and have held land far far away from their traditional boundaries. They have a sense of superiority ingrained in them. Remember, the British held Australia and the USA in the past !


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    #50
    Riddle101
    Registered Users Posts: 8,413 ✭✭✭Riddle101


    Why not? Nobody had to accept the Irish when they went around the world and we shouldn't have to accept people if we don't want to. Except EU nationals of course. We have lost that right.

    Nobody had to, but they still did accept us, nobody has to accept anyone but the fact is we did it ourselves, now we have to pay the price and give back.


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    #51
    dsmythy
    Registered Users Posts: 10,518 ✭✭✭✭dsmythy


    Riddle101 wrote: »
    Nobody had to, but they still did accept us, nobody has to accept anyone but the fact is we did it ourselves, now we have to pay the price and give back.

    Well i guess if we followed that line of thought then North Americans (and to an extent South Americans), Western Europeans and Australians/New Zealanders would be most welcome in massive numbers.

    That thinking is still no excuse to allow, with little restriction, people from most other parts of the world where the Irish did not go to come here in huge numbers in the future.

    Personally i don't think we owe anyone, not of Irish descent, anything regardless of where they are from.


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    #52
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Het-Field wrote: »
    Remember, the British held Australia and the USA in the past !

    Dont you mean 'Created' Australia and the USA? and not forgetting the Irish contribution to colonisation that we all tend to 'Forget', ie the fact that the British 'Colonisers' were infact made-up of English, Scots, Welsh, & Irish . . . . . . .

    Many people tend to forget that many of the colonisers were in fact 'Irish' which puts a slightly different light on the story that it was those 'nasty Brits' who did all the colonisation :eek:


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    #53
    berliner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 420 ✭✭berliner


    Riddle101 wrote: »
    Nobody had to, but they still did accept us, nobody has to accept anyone but the fact is we did it ourselves, now we have to pay the price and give back.
    The Irish weren't wanted in England.It wasn't unusual to see 'No irish need apply' on jobs ads/on windows advertising flats etc.Same story in many big american cities.


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    #54
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    berliner wrote: »
    I don't claim that.i don't really know what the term racist means.I guess it means to hate another race of people.I didn't read anything on their website that was hatred of another race.People throw the term racist around without really knowing what it means.

    The BNP are racist. I provided information that shows there leader is a holocaust denier. Thats more than enough to show there racist.

    Most people know exactly what it means to be racist. In the case of the BNP, its very clear.


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    #55
    berliner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 420 ✭✭berliner


    wes wrote: »
    The BNP are racist. I provided information that shows there leader is a holocaust denier. Thats more than enough to show there racist.

    Most people know exactly what it means to be racist. In the case of the BNP, its very clear.
    "holocaust denier". If any person has questions about the jewish holocaust then they're stuck with that label.You can question Mao's Chinese holocaust,or Stalin's Russian Holocaust and not be tagged with the denier tag.Just a thought.


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    #56
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    berliner wrote: »
    "holocaust denier". If any person has questions about the jewish holocaust then they're stuck with that label.You can question Mao's Chinese holocaust,or Stalin's Russian Holocaust and not be tagged with the denier tag.Just a thought.

    Question what? 6 Million Jews (as well as other ethnic minorities, Homosexuals and Gypsies) were exterminated in one of the vilest acts of industrialized Genocide the planet has ever seen. What is there to question exactly? I think perhaps these people who have questions, should go visit the ramaining concentration camps in Europe.

    Holocaust denial is Anti-antisemitism pure and simple, the only reason people would question it, is to make the Jewish people out to be liars etc.

    As for Stalin's and Mao's Democides. People who deny those are really no different imo.


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    #57
    berliner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 420 ✭✭berliner


    wes wrote: »
    Question what? 6 Million Jews (as well as other ethnic minorities, Homosexuals and Gypsies) were exterminated in one of the vilest acts of industrialized Genocide the planet has ever seen. What is there to question exactly? Holocaust denial is Anti-antisemitism pure and simple, the only reason people would question it, is to make the Jewish people out to be liars etc.

    As for Stalin's and Mao's Democides. People who deny those are really no different imo.
    It's Stalin and Mao's Holocaust not democides.It wasn't only jews.Many races have suffered holocausts but the have no museums or rememberance days.


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    #58
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    berliner wrote: »
    It's Stalin and Mao's Holocaust not democides.It wasn't only jews.Many races have suffered holocausts but the have no museums or rememberance days.

    Democide is the correct term for what Stalin and Mao did. It refers to mass murder, politicide and includes genocide.

    The term Holocaust, is used specifically for the genocide of Europe's Jews and sometimes for the genocide of the Armenians at the hands of the Ottoman Turks.

    Last I checked Holocaust remembrance day is used for the remembrance of all victims of genocide.


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    #59
    Het-Field
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,350 ✭✭✭Het-Field


    I have seen two documentaries about the British National Party. One was the 2002 Channel Four Documentary "Young Nazi and Proud", and the other was the 2004 infiltration. It exposed the BNP as a disgusings racist organisation. Leader Nick Griffin regularly qualified his statements with "i would get seven years in prison for saying this. Beyond the BNP there are even more disgusing organisation. Groups like the EFP BPP WNP and GBB are far more extreme (which speaks volumes about them) then the BNP.


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    #60
    Rossibaby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 421 ✭✭Rossibaby


    Rebeller wrote: »
    ROFL. You've obviously never met the real Sinn Fein; the less media-savvy, presentable members of the organisation who would be just as eager as the current (mal)administration to pitch a tent at the Galway races.

    There are no real left-wing parties in this country: left-wing movements yes, parties no.

    what about the irish republican socialist party?we will be standing in elections in the north in the near future and have presence all over ireland.But yes,much work is to be done before we are regarded as a relevent, engaging party in the south of ireland.

    out of interest have none of ye heard of INP,irish nationalist party....they exist alright,very small i'd say max 20,30 members but they do exist...few motnsh back some polish bet a member up down in kerry i think it was....INP are bunch of racists he deserved it


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    #61
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,301 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    ArthurF wrote: »
    Surely Sinn Fein would be the closest 'Irish equivalent' to the British National Party?
    The BNP hates everyone but the white people, it would seem. SF wants more foreigners in, once they're not english, it would seem.


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