could humans survive without the sun??

WiDGe->

yes we'd be in eternal darkness, but are we not at such an advanced stage at this time that we can survive without it?? we can synthesize our own food at this stage, what else do we need it for??

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

umm...

everything else?

Jim

Mordeth wrote: »

umm...

everything else?

Pretty much that.

Winters

No.


Kinda would loose, you know .. heat. And heat does a lot of things. Like kinda .. oh, you know rain for example. Also its sorta important from a gravity point of view. And with no sun there would be a slight lack of heat ... you know. Freezing.

Why am I even bothering to answer this.

WiDGe->

yeah but we can make our own heat aswell, maybe ive had a few too many beers..... just thinkin a bit outside the box tonight!!

cormie

The human race couldn't even survive if bees became extinct (which some studies say is happening).

WiDGe->

cormie wrote: »

The human race couldn't even survive if bees became extinct (which some studies say is happening).

really?? explain!!

slade_x

Oh my........

No, Our existance is dependant on a lot of factors, having the sun where it is, is one of the primary dependants to life as we know it on this planet. Without it our ecosystem would not exist.

Even With all the artificial power we could generate if the sun died, this planet would turn to a cold baron wasteland like mars. We can barely meet the power generation needs for us let alone the entire ecosystem if the sun wasnt there.

bogwalrus

i think the bee thing has to do with pollination. heard it in the radio not too long ago. i remember being quite shocked. something about if there were no bees there would be no plants and we would all starve to death etc.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

pbs aired a documentary called 'silence of the bees'

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/bees/

interesting stuff, doesn't explain what's going on because no one really knows why the bees are sodding off but it does go into why they are so neccesary.

experiMental

Humans could hardly survive with lack of sunlight for a prolonged period of time, for starters. It may be possible to survive for a year, but maybe not for any longer.

Conor108

What would happen to the Earth if the Sun went? Would we orbit Jupiter or something?

I'd say we wouldn't fare to well at all without the Sun, I saw '30 Days of Night' and everyone was dying! And that was 1 month!:D

dr strangelove

Surely nuclear power could save us?

Large underground bunkers powered by nuclear power? we could grow plants and animals in artificial light. yeah, it would be could outside with the whole atmosphere frozen out, but if you don't have any other option, why not?

Nuke subs stay under for months at a time, they only have to surface to resupply but you could get round that by growing your own.

Bees? bees only produce honey and pollinate the plants, and you could easily pollinate by hand.

sebastianlieken

the whole -273 (ish) degree temperature thing would get anoying after a while. then there's the whole thing with oxygen concentration being reduced to nil....and to be honest....i cant hold my breath for too long...

the whole lack of gravity thing aswell.....that would raise a few questions....like eh...taking a shower......(or bath for that matter):rolleyes:

Kevster

Without the Sun, there would be no source of heat. Now, considering that the temperature of space is just a few degrees above Absolute Zero, we have absolutely no hope in hell of surviving without the Sun.

If it were to suddenly vanish, the oceans and seas would eventually freeze... ...as would the blood in your own goddam blood vessels.

Kevin.

bonkey

I think most people are looking at teh OP's question from the wrong angle.

The question was not whether human society, as we know it, could survive without the sun, but rather whether or not humans could.

if we approached the problem where the goal was merely to ensure the survival of the species, then we'd only need a relatively small number of people. If memory serves, somewhere in the region of 30 individuals would be needed in order to ensure genetic diversity.

So lets forget about the billions of people on earth, and limit ourselves to asking whether or not the species could survive. One way of thinking about the question is to ask whether or not we could - with all the resources of the planet at our disposal - create an "ark". Could we build a facility (on earth, if you like, so that lack of gravity isn't an issue) that could indefinitely maintain a limited population of humans.

My initial reaction is to say that sure, we could do it. The only two problems I can think of that may currently be insurmountable are:

- the minimum population-size that would be necessary, not to maintain genetic diversity, but to ensure the continuation of all needed skill-sets.
- supply of raw materials, most notably whatever is supplying energy.

Tar.Aldarion

No, we could not sustain a supply of oxygen, food etc. We would die out after all the other species did.

seamus

I think bonkey's gotten the right idea in terms of how to look at it.

I would imagine that raw materials, food, water and oxygen would definitely be our biggest problem.

Assuming that we knew when the sun would disappear, it should be possible to gather enough uranium to power a nuclear reactor for a few hundred thousand years.

The power from this could be used to convert outside (frozen) water into something usable. Water could be used to generate oxygen (and hydrogen as a separate fuel). The power could also run lighting (both UV and standard) which should keep humans relatively healthy and allow plants to grow. In turn, this maintains the food chain.

I think population size becomes a big problem. When you consider the volume of land required to grow crops and farm animals for a community of even a few thousand, human breeding would have to be strictly controlled. This in turn will probably have a serious affect on genetic diversity, not to mention the psychological and societal issues it would create.

The one thing which earth is quite famous for and which sets us apart (mostly) in our Solar System is geological activity. If the sun disappeared, pretty much everything on the surface would freeze almost instantly. However, the geothermal energy provided by the earth itself would probably maintain a certain amount of liquid water below the ice . In the event that we were to lose the sun, the best plan of action would be to dig as deep as we possibly could into the crust, or plant ourselves very deep in some ocean. Both have their hazards, but would limit the amount of energy that would be wasted trying to keep ourselves warm

Of course, it would all be futile. A sunless solar system means that we would go hurtling off into space and will probably come into contact with a few thousand large comets. It's the predicatably of the orbits in the solar system that is responsible for protecting us from massive comet strikes in the first place - any orbits which were destined to collide have already done so over the last 4 billion years.

Capt'n Midnight

If there was no sun , we'd have to do everything by moonlight :pac:

We'd have to rely totally on electric power

The big question is how long before groundwater would freeze and oceans would ice over.

The sun provides something like 1Kw / m2 so there is no way we could provide that much power.

Passive insulation would have to be taken to new levels,



Here is one answer to that question from half a centry ago.

A Pail of Air is a science fiction short story by Fritz Leiber which appeared in the December 1951 issue of Galaxy Magazine and aired on the radio show X Minus One in March 1956.
http://www.webscription.net/chapters/0743498747/0743498747___6.htm

CiDeRmAn

It would all depend on the heads up time on the event.
If we had a century or two head start then we could prepare, maybe an ark-ship to make for nearest viable stable star, and then work from there.
No way the population would make it, better an automated craft with a genebank of human, animal and vegatable information, and the husbandary equipment to assemble a viable colony whereever we ended up.
The planet would die and that would be that.
If we didn't get a heads up, then lights out for all.
If we were a space faring people at that stage then a better chance but, too many things rely on the sun, too many variables, not good.

DanGerMus

Why are people saying we'd have no gravity. Our Gravity is not generated by the sun it's given by the mass of the earth. Surely?

seamus

DanGerMus wrote: »

Why are people saying we'd have no gravity. Our Gravity is not generated by the sun it's given by the mass of the earth. Surely?

The comments are more to do with the gravitational effect of the sun on our earth. If that was suddenly to be released, God knows what would happen - think of an olympic hammer thrower. That in turn, could also slow down, reverse, or speed up the planet's rotation, which would be not good. If the earth was to suddenly stop spinning, the rules of physics would still apply. The earth is spinning at roughly 1600km/h, so if it was to stop suddenly, you'd continue moving at 1600km/h. Assuming that you managed to not hit anything solid and got yourself into a position suitable to stop the wind resistance from tearing you apart, you'll probably find yourself a few km in the air, and then gravity will kick in again.
The only ones who would survive would be those who strapped themselves into some form of sophisticated energy absorbtion chamber. Don't forget that buildings and pretty everything else would be lifted up and start flying about the place. Destruction would be absolute.

The sun of course has a tiny gravitational effect on each of us, but it's negligible against the gravitational pull of our planet.

Capt'n Midnight

A more interesting question would be
"could humans survive without the moon ?"

no tides and more radiation, of course some humans would survive but what about the rest of us ?

Peleus

If we didnt have the sun,

• we would be in total darkness (obviously)
• No more heat from the sun so i'd presume temperature would drop to like -200deg.
• Plants would all die
• Most animals would freeze to death
• We'd need so much more energy for central heating that, oil and coal suplies etc would be under pressure. We'd probably need alot more food to raise our body temperature, and with all the plants and animals basically dead, we'd be screwed.
• Not to mention we'd be flying off in a tangeant through space pretty fast.

mukki

probably possibal for a small number of people to live for a small while, in something like as in a space ship/submarine conditions


but there would be no point in trying to live



and don't bother watching the film solar, its crap

Conor108

mukki wrote: »

and don't bother watching the film solar, its crap

But do watch 'Sunshine' Its brilliant! Not scientifically accurate but still

ChocolateSauce

We could indeed survive! Now, not all of us. I think maybe one or two out of every million people would be a reasonable guestimate.

Anyway, it would actually take several years for the surface temperature to reach -200 or so degrees. Plants would die within 2 weeks, most surface animals within 2 months. The animals of the extreme north, such as Caribou and Polar bears, which live for months in utter darkness anyway, would probably last up to a year. Deep sea life would survive for about 100 years before the oceans froze all the way down.

So where do we go? Not the surface. This may sound far out, but remember the earth generates its own geothermal energy? The temperature raises about 1 degree for every Km you go down, due to pressure. If we could make a city like Zion in the Matrix below the sea bed of the deepest ocean, we could use geothermal energy to power it, a limitless source! And there are lifeforms in the deepest darkest oceans which live totally independent of the sun, and where the heat of the Earth would keep the water liquid. These lifeforms would be the ultimate survivors of a solar apocolypse, and if we found a way to live off them a few thousand people could survive for millions of years to come.

EamonnKeane

Winters wrote: »

Also its sorta important from a gravity point of view.

???

bogwalrus

The moon moves approximately two inches away from the earth every year. This is due to the tidal bulges pushing the moons orbit out slightly giving it a spiral orbit around the earth.

So realistically we will probably see the moon fire off into space before the sun.

What would happen without the moon though?

There would be no more ware wolves for one:D

ronbyrne2005

Possible that another star could move into our solar system from elsewhere in nearby galaxy/galaxies. Heard stars migrate from cluster near middle of galaxy and also our galaxy could be currently colliding with smaller galaxies at present.

marco_polo

ronbyrne2005 wrote: »

Possible that another star could move into our solar system from elsewhere in nearby galaxy/galaxies. Heard stars migrate from cluster near middle of galaxy and also our galaxy could be currently colliding with smaller galaxies at present.

The Milky Way is currently in the process of swallowing a much smaller galaxy called Sagatarius. Some of the debris passes relatively close to our own solar system, so perhaps this is what you have read before. If our sun and another star were to come too close they would certainly collide and it would be curtains for the solar system as we know it.

Link to the dwarf swallowing here:
http://www.virginia.edu/topnews/releases2003/milky-sept-24-2003.html

Indeed the Milky Way is ultimately believed to have a very high chance of colliding with our nearest neighbour the Andromeda Galaxy in about 3 billion years time. A merger would probably be more accurate term as galaxy collisions are not very spectaular because they are so diffuse.

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=when-milky-way-and-andromeda-collide-earth-could-find-itself-far-from-home