Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
80 killed in Tibet, Chinese will be kept in the dark
Options
Comments
-
for more information on western media bias see www.anti-cnn.com, you might get more from our views. the site has only been built for a week, but already got 200,000 registers. note, BBC will be likely being banned again, however, i do agree with this as checking this website is all about making me more confusing on tibet issue.0
-
Western media will always blame everything bad that happens in China on the Chinese Goverment. Because China controls the media there western newspapers and news channels already see this as an attack on their profession something personal, thats why we dont hear good news from China. Also alot of American cold war propoganda has always told us democrocy=Good Communism=bad and unfortunatly western people cant get the idea of 'diffrent cultures treat their people diffrent' in to their heads. So with media being the way it is most Irish will think in China: People eat Dogs, people kill baby girls, no one can say anything about the chinese goverment or they will be killed because its A COMMUNIST COUNTRY! and many more crazy ideas about the Chinese, Americans have even worse ideas All chinese are brainwashed, chinese people cant drive, chinese only eat rice and are poor, chinese products are all fake and many more. I always try to defend China as I have studied it for many years and I hear people say these same things time and time again, its very sad, maybe when China is no.1 superpower in the world people will change their idea's.
quote from an online comment
.........0 -
keiran, please attribute that quote and add your own comments to it.0
-
maybe when China is no.1 superpower in the world people will change their idea's.
Well, who ever said that, doesn't have a clue. The US (the only super power), is hated by a lot of people. If China took its place, hatred of China would become very popular.
As for the Western media. I think China which is well known for censorship (not to mention the "Great Firewall"), really need to practice what preaches, but producing some unbiased media. I wait with baited breath for such a thing to come about.
Till then I will take the flawed Western media any day of the week, while there is a lot of rubbish put out there, the truth is usually available, it just take a bit of looking to find and at least in the West, we have the opportunity to do so. This of course doesn't excuse Western media outlets that engage in propaganda, but at least the real information can be found.0 -
completely agree with Wes, of course there is miss information out there, but least we can access all the information out there, not just what our respective goverments want.
if some one is trying to stop you from hereing other points of view from their own, you should seriously question how trustworthy it is. while western media has its faults, its a long way ahead of Chinese media in terms of freedom of information.0 -
Advertisement
-
have you check the website yet? www.anti-cnn.com, this is about western media ditortion, can anyone expain me those 'cropped pictures' on the page?so what do you mean by 'freedom of information' like this???0
-
or like this????????????0
-
fairly clear thats an ambulance it has a red cross on it , the guys at the back, in thr green, they are the military they are refering too.
not really cropped pictures.0 -
carsonsunhao wrote: »have you check the website yet? www.anti-cnn.com, this is about western media ditortion, can anyone expain me those 'cropped pictures' on the page?so what do you mean by 'freedom of information' like this???
Well, you just made my point for me. I can access that site, it isn't blocked here and yes I look at the site. I will have to take a longer look to make up my mind. However, the fact you can post that site here and present you view proves my point. You can present the case that the CNN is telling lies and present you case. In China, that opportunity isn't available, until recently the BBC was blocked there and there are still a lot of sites that are blocked.
I agree with you certain members of the Western media are full of crap, but at least you can tell us your side of the story. If a Tibetan monk or someone who didn't agree with the PRC did that (in China), they would be arrested.
**EDIT**
Here is an example, from Al Jazeera (who are hardly pro-Western, have had reporters bombed by US forces and one of there reporters being held in Guantanamo):China activist jailing criticised
China's jailing of a prominent rights activist has drawn criticism from an international media advocacy group and the US.
Paris-based Reporters Without Borders (RSF) said it was "appalled" by Thursday's ruling to jail Hu Jia for three and a half years and called for a boycott of the opening ceremony of the Beijing Olympics.
"The Chinese justice system has, at the behest of the authorities, thrown oil on the flames just four months ahead of the Olympic Games," the group said in a statement.
Hu, 34, a high-profile rights campaigner well known for criticising the government in internet articles and in interviews with the foreign media,
was jailed for "incitement to subvert state power".
Click here for the rest of the story0 -
your words are clearly what we called' ignorant', our police force in this case wearing green uniform, however, they are not what bbc called 'military force'. cos military umbulance van is green.0
-
Advertisement
-
carsonsunhao wrote: »ok take your time buddy, however I think any country in this world will do the same way when 'protestors' start killing, robbing, and destroying public facilities. and i don' think those monks are religionists at all, cos that is not the way of the buddism practice. they are well planned.
Well, let turn that around shall we. Any country invaded by an aggressive invader trying to destroy there culture, will tend to resort to violence to repel the invader. Most will do this regardless of what there religious scriptures say or even if they have no religion whatsoever. Humans just hate being invaded for some odd reason.
Having said that, violent protest are wrong and the Dalai Lama has said so repeatedly, that he doesn't support this. So who is planning them? Since the Chinese, are saying its the Dalai Lama, with no proof and he has been vocal about his opposition to violence. Sorry the PRC story is full of holes imo and the Chinese army are no doubt engaged in violence as well, but we can't see it as they won't let the media in. Which make them look guilty as sin.0 -
maybe they are resorting to violence out of frustration.
frustration at not having a voice.
Why does the PRC sensor out side media sources, what are they scared of their people learning. why are they scared of their people learning other views, other than the offical one.
no one has given a good answer for this.0 -
here is proof
The Riots in Lhasa -by Eirik Granqvist
The Riots in Lhasa -by Eirik Granqvist, a foreign expert in Shanghai who visited Tibet in 2006
"The western medias announced that China had cut all information and that articles about the riots could not be sent out! I got mad about all the apparently incorrect information and wrote this article and two other similar ones although I am not a journalist but just because I could not stand all the bad things about China that was told. I sent them by e-mail without problems and they arrived well but two newspapers did neither respond neither publish what I had written. The third answered and wanted a shorter version that was published many days later as a normal 'readers voice'. What Dalai Lama had said was largely published every day together with a real anti-China propaganda. What I had written was apparently too China friendly for the 'free press'."
I was very shocked by what I had seen in the television and been reading in China daily about the riots in Lhasa. The most that shocked me was anyhow may be not the cruel events by themselves but how the medias in my country of origin, Finland, reported the events. A friend ha**canned and sent me articles and I have checked also myself what can be found at Internet.
Very few Finnish people have ever visited Tibet, but I was there together with my wife in 2006. This was private persons and not as a part of a group-travel. I have seen Lhasa with my own eyes. I have been talking and chatting with people there. This was without any restrictions. Okay, we had a lovely and very competent guide that helped us much and took us where we wanted to go in the mornings but in the afternoons we were alone. Therefore I think that I have something to tell.
I am also interested in history and know more than people in general. When writing this, I do not have any reference books so I write out of my memory. If I do a small mistake somewhere, I beg your pardon. Anyhow, I think that this gives my writing an objectivity. I am well aware of that I will be accused for this and that for writing what I think is the truth. I will be accused by those who think that they know but do not know and by those that haven't seen by their own eyes.
Tibet was for centuries an autonomous concordat between Nepal and China. Sometimes China ruled Nepal as well. The king of Tibet used therefore to have one Chinese wife and one Nepalese and then a number of Tibetan ones.
With the fifth Dalai Lama, the religious and the political power were unified under the rule of one person, The Dalai Lama. Tibet became a theocratic dictatorship and closed itself for the rest of the world. No foreigners were anymore allowed in.
At the end of the nineteenth century, the famous Swedish traveller Sven Hedin made an attempt to reach Lhasa but wa**ent politely back, out of Tibet by Dalai Lama.
A French woman, Alexandra David-Néel was more successful. She visited Lhasa dressed as a Tibetan pilgrim and she was fluent in the Tibetan language. She told how she was afraid many times that she should be discovered and then she knew that she like other suspects or opponents should "happen to fall down" from the walls of the Potala palace.
Tibet was not a paradise. Tibet was an inhuman dictatorship!
The weakened Chinese Qing Dynasty had more and more lost its influence in Tibet. Tibet became more and more interesting for the Russian empire in the north and the Britis***he south.
In 1903 a British army expedition directed by the colonel Younghusband reached Lhasa. The British lost 4 soldiers but slaughtered more the 700 Tibetans that tryed to stop them, mainly by magic. The Britis***alled "a commercial representation" in Lhasa. The Chinese evacuated Dalai Lama to the Qinghai plateau where he hade limited rights of move, probably for preventing him from having contacts with the British occupants.
The Finnish national hero, Marshal Mannerheim, visited him there in 1907 during his famous horseback trip through central Asia. He was then a colonel in the Tsar Russian army and his trip was in reality a spy trip. Therefore the 13th Dalai Lama was interesting.
The power of Dalai Lama was weakened. In 1950 the :)LA marched in to Tibet without war. The 14th Dalai Lama seems at the beginning to have accepted this just as a security for his power as the theocratic dictator he was. He enlarged and restructured the Norbulingka Summer Palace in a luxury way in 1954.
The Chinese decided anyhow to finis***he cruel theocratic dictatorship under which the opponents fell down from Potala. The borders where during this dictatorship closed for all foreigners and the only schools where the religious ones. It is well known that it is easier to rule a population with a low education and is ignoring the outside world. In Tibet, about 5% of the population owned everything and the rest literally nothing. About 40% of the Tibetans were monks and nuns living as parasites on the rest of the population that had to feed them. Tibet was not a paradise!
Now China decided that the Tibeta**hould have the same rights and place in the society as the rest of the country's population. The monasteries should be emptied from their excessively large monk and nun populations.
Tibet could earlier be reached only by some horse trails and was for the rest insulated. The Chinese built rapidly a trafficable road. The insulation was broken.
In 1959, the young Dalai Lama caused a peoples upraising, using the religion as power since he was loosing his own powerful position. The upraising was however stopped, may be in not a too clever and smooth manner. Dalai Lama then left Tibet and his fellow citizens and escaped to India wherefrom he has continued to fight for his come back and reinstall the theocratic dictators***hat China will never allow again.
Then followed the ten years of Cultural Revolution that was an unhappy time for all China that closed itself to the rest of the world.
Now Lhasa has a modern airport and a railway. China has invested a lot in Tibet. The standard of living has been raised a lot in Tibet and last Xmas I have seen Tibeta**pending sun-holidays on Hainan Island! Very lucky looking old women in traditional dresses walking on the beach with their husbands and the youngsters dressed like other young people enjoying the beach life.
The possibilities for Dalai Lama to take back his power has diminished and he does not anymore have the population with him. China and India are developing their cooperation and with the closer friendship, India will for sure also not more admit Dalai Lama to disturb this development. His possibilities to act against China will be diminished.
Therefore he undertook recently an around the world diplomatic travel since he ha**een the possibility of harming the now good international image of China and provoking boycotts of the Olympic games in Beijing.
The Lhasa riots where very well prepared. Curriers where crossing the borders illegally for to see Dalai Lama and get his orders. A group of foreign mountain climbers filmed recently across the border an unlucky incident when one of these curriers got shot and another that crossed the border openly declared that he wanted to go to see the Dalai Lama. I have seen that in television just before I left for China in November.
China is no longer a closed country. There is no need for illegal border crossings if you are not doing something illegally! You just ask for a pa**port and take the necessary visas and cross the border at a legal border crossing or better, just take a regular flight from Lhasa to Kathmandu!
There where no peaceful demonstrations in Lhasa that where brutally knocked down! Young men went to action after a well prepared scenario at many places at the same time so that police and fire brigade should be taken by surprise and unable to act everywhere at the same time. This wa**uccessful! People where just knocked down without differences and all what could be broken was broken in the shortest possible time. With Molotov cocktails, fires where lit and fire cars where stopped. 18 normal citizens where killed without feelings and one police. The police had order to not respond with firearms for not being internationally blamed!
When I have seen the filmed riots in television, my diagnosis was immediately clear. The scenario was the same that I had seen many times of organized riots in France since more the forty years of tight familiar contacts and 21 years of living there. The difference was only that less ordinary people seemed to take part in Lhasa. The rioters where surprisingly few but well organized! China's positive image in the world should be damaged!
Dalai Lama is acting as the friendly and peaceful father. This is an old trick that also dictators like Hitler and Stalin used. I am not comparing him with them but he is acting like a demon when he tries to take back his power at any cost, not once caring for human lives and against Buddhistic non-violence principles. It was a try to do a coup d'ètat that failed. Now he is asking for international help for to stop the violence that he, himself had planned!
When I visited Tibet in 2006, I wa**urprised by the relaxed atmosphere and the few policemen in Lhasa. All that I have seen were Tibetans. Not the Han-Chinese. The atmosphere was remarkably peaceful and gave a picture of general well living. There was no oppressed feeling like I had seen so many times in the Soviet Union and its satellites before all that non-human system collapsed. People in Lhasa where friendly and wanted to speak to me, mostly without success since I do not speak Chinese nor Tibetan but up and then somebody could speak some words in English. Their wish for contact was just out of normal curiosity towards the foreigners.
I had heard that the religious life should been oppressed but it was flowering! I had also heard that so many Han Chinese where moved in that the Tibetans where now very few in Lhasa. I did however see much more Tibetans there. May be that the Han Chinese where hiding? The western medias announced that China had cut all information and that articles about the riots could not be sent out! I got mad about all the apparently incorrect information and wrote this article and two other similar ones although I am not a journalist but just because I could not stand all the bad things about China that was told. I sent them by e-mail without problems and they arrived well but two newspapers did neither respond neither publish what I had written. The third answered and wanted a shorter version that was published many days later as a normal "readers voice". What Dalai Lama had said was largely published every day together with a real anti-China propaganda. What I had written was apparently too China friendly for the "free press".0 -
carsonsunhao wrote: »here is proof
The Riots in Lhasa -by Eirik Granqvist
Firstly, proof of what?
You don't provide a link to the web site you got this from. So that that to me, make the article look questionable.
Also, he doesn't provide references, which is a major red light for this so called history. The author tries to excuse this, but sorry not accepting excuses there mate. The article is opinion and not proof of anything.
Also, the article is poorly written propaganda. For someone to complain about propaganda and then present some, is pretty funny.
The article provides no proof whatsoever, of the Dalai Lama's involvement in organizing the riots. The evidence presented prove nothing.
The article is the worst and perhaps mostly badly written propaganda, I have personally read lately.0 -
okay, if you say so, good luck to rest of your life as being a anti-china protestor.0
-
carsonsunhao wrote: »okay, if you say so, good luck to rest of your life as being a anti-china protestor.
I have been to 1 protest in my life and that was against the Irish government, making student pay fee's.
I am not Anti-China btw. I am anti-occupation, regardless of who is doing the occupying.
You presented no link for your proof. Which make it suspect. The case made in it is pretty bad. It doesn't link the Dalai Lama to the violence, at best the case made shows he was communicating to people inside Tibet. Of course, even with that we are taking his word on it.
I am just pointing out problems with your argument. If you have problem with mine, why not point out where I am wrong? The whole point here is to engage in debate, not throw out allegations of being Anti-China.0 -
Glad to hear that you are not anti-China. Similarly, Chinese are not anti-West as well. What Chinese are against is prejudice, arrogance and showing off their ignorance as if they were expert of all. (Better read some previous posts by PSI. He knows more truth about China.)I have been to 1 protest in my life and that was against the Irish government, making student pay fee's.
I am not Anti-China btw. I am anti-occupation, regardless of who is doing the occupying.
You presented no link for your proof. Which make it suspect. The case made in it is pretty bad. It doesn't link the Dalai Lama to the violence, at best the case made shows he was communicating to people inside Tibet. Of course, even with that we are taking his word on it.
I am just pointing out problems with your argument. If you have problem with mine, why not point out where I am wrong? The whole point here is to engage in debate, not throw out allegations of being Anti-China.
Let's look at your 'occupation'. The definition of occupation is: being controlled by a foreign army. Tibet Autonomous Region is Part of PRC, which is recognised by every country in the world. Heavy Army presence, you mean? Most big countries put their military around their borders to protect their sovereignty (ironically, USA and UK put their army in other countries to protect their own interest and spread democracy). And Tibet has a tiny population, compared with its vast size. That's where the ratio army/civilian=1:20 comes from.
Oppression you mean? Definition of oppression: being treated cruelly or are prevented from having the same opportunities. If you talk with ordinary Tibetan about the oppression they suffered, they will probably tell you their hard times under the rule of Lalai Lama, but not during PRC time. Yes, there were indeed people who suffered oppression under PRC rule. They were the class of monks and landlords (theocracy--politics and religion combined) who are the tiny group benefited from the system of serfdom. Know what serfdom is? Tibet's serfdom was even worse than that of Middle age Europe.
Though Dalai Lama is the nominal head of the Tibetan exile government, he might not be able to control violence undergoing in Tibet. The Tibetan Youth Congress, in many ways not unlike al-Qaeda and KLA, occupies half of the exile government and controls most of the operation of it. They could do WHATEVER to achieve full independence. The Chinese government claims "the Dalai Lama clique conspired and organised the violence", while the true mastermind should be the TYC, who is going to make use of the chance of 2008 Olympics to attract the West's attention and gain an upper hand over the Chinese authorities who is afraid of any instabilities in Tibet, Xinjiang and Taiwan strait, and that's why Beijing was refrained in dealing with the '3.14' riots.0 -
Firstly, proof of what?
You don't provide a link to the web site you got this from. So that that to me, make the article look questionable.
Also, he doesn't provide references, which is a major red light for this so called history. The author tries to excuse this, but sorry not accepting excuses there mate. The article is opinion and not proof of anything.
Also, the article is poorly written propaganda. For someone to complain about propaganda and then present some, is pretty funny.
The article provides no proof whatsoever, of the Dalai Lama's involvement in organizing the riots. The evidence presented prove nothing.
The article is the worst and perhaps mostly badly written propaganda, I have personally read lately.
all right wes, glad to hear you are not a anti-china fly, so lets continue our talk, eventhough you don't agree with this article, and also has been consisted that dalai has no contact with the whole thing at all, here is another article for you, and the link is provided under that. could this proof you that there is certainlly a network beihind the dalai.
Ms. Woznow was bailing the Tibetan students out of Greek jail (the two who appeared most prominently on TV were Swiss citizens), another B.C. woman, 28-year-old Freya Putt, was in her office in Washington, preparing documents that would be sent to 150 Tibet support groups around the world giving them detailed notes on how to behave when organizing similar disruptions as the torch makes its six-month trip around the world.
Last May, the Dalai Lama's Tibetan government-in-exile put together a meeting in Brussels of all the major Tibet organizations — there are hundreds, and they're organized under a Washington-based umbrella group, the International Tibet Support Network. There, the exiled Tibetans decided that the Olympics should be the single focus of their activities for the next 15 months, and they hired a full-time organizer for the Olympic-disruption campaign.
They picked Ms. Putt, a University of Victoria graduate who had spent years in the student movement. When Tibet activists disrupted then-prime-minister Jean Chrétien's 2001 visit to China, Ms. Putt was there, directing it and communicating with the media as students unfurled a protest banner behind the Chinese and Canadian leaders. One of the demonstrators was Ms. Woznow, who was arrested and detained by Chinese authorities.
From Washington, Ms. Putt has steered a disorderly circle of thousands of volunteers on six continents into a carefully designed campaign that will combine Greenpeace-style attention-getting techniques with the Buddhist country's traditionally non-violent values, all directed at the thousands of media outlets that are converging on Beijing.
"The Chinese government wants something from this; they want world acceptance. That's why they're taking the risk of inviting the world in for these Games. They want to be part of the club and to be liked. And our job as young activists is to deny them this, to tell them that their approach to Tibet is going to cost them something, it'll cost them face. And loss of face is the most serious thing we can deliver."
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080328.wtibetcampaign0328/BNStory/International/home?cid=al_gam_mostview0 -
leonardo4358 wrote: »Let's look at your 'occupation'. The definition of occupation is: being controlled by a foreign army. Tibet Autonomous Region is Part of PRC, which is recognised by every country in the world. Heavy Army presence, you mean? Most big countries put their military around their borders to protect their sovereignty (ironically, USA and UK put their army in other countries to protect their own interest and spread democracy). And Tibet has a tiny population, compared with its vast size. That's where the ratio army/civilian=1:20 comes from.
If the Tibetans, say there under occupation. Thats good enough for me. If they say there another country, that is good enough for me.
It would be nice if we could find out what they want, but the fear or reprisal would make that difficult.leonardo4358 wrote: »Oppression you mean? Definition of oppression: being treated cruelly or are prevented from having the same opportunities. If you talk with ordinary Tibetan about the oppression they suffered, they will probably tell you their hard times under the rule of Lalai Lama, but not during PRC time. Yes, there were indeed people who suffered oppression under PRC rule. They were the class of monks and landlords (theocracy--politics and religion combined) who are the tiny group benefited from the system of serfdom. Know what serfdom is? Tibet's serfdom was even worse than that of Middle age Europe.
The PRC is a dictatorship, so its hardly any better really.
Again, the average Tibetan can't really speak up for fear of reprisal from the PRC. It would be great to find out what they really think, but we can't get that info, as the PRC is preventing it.leonardo4358 wrote: »Though Dalai Lama is the nominal head of the Tibetan exile government, he might not be able to control violence undergoing in Tibet. The Tibetan Youth Congress, in many ways not unlike al-Qaeda and KLA, occupies half of the exile government and controls most of the operation of it. They could do WHATEVER to achieve full independence. The Chinese government claims "the Dalai Lama clique conspired and organised the violence", while the true mastermind should be the TYC, who is going to make use of the chance of 2008 Olympics to attract the West's attention and gain an upper hand over the Chinese authorities who is afraid of any instabilities in Tibet, Xinjiang and Taiwan strait, and that's why Beijing was refrained in dealing with the '3.14' riots.
The comparison of the Tibetan Youth Congress to Al-Qaeda and the KLA is ridiculous, there all very different organizations.
The PRC's current problems, stem from not listening to its minorities and like all dictatorships engaging in oppression to shut those up who question the regime.0 -
carsonsunhao wrote: »all right wes, glad to hear you are not a anti-china fly, so lets continue our talk, eventhough you don't agree with this article, and also has been consisted that dalai has no contact with the whole thing at all, here is another article for you, and the link is provided under that. could this proof you that there is certainlly a network beihind the dalai.
Of course there is network behind him, but the link you provides no proof to link him to the violence however. There is nothing wrong with him organizing peaceful protests and highlighting problems in China, which is what the article you posted states. The article states the networks intention of non-violent protest several times.0 -
Advertisement
-
If the Tibetans, say there under occupation. Thats good enough for me. If they say there another country, that is good enough for me.
But where is the evidence that they are?
The ones who are complaining are a former theocratic establishment that had the country enslaved before the PRC returned to Tibet.
BTW, Tibet never had independent status, even prior to 1949.
True, but that could be said for any region in China.It would be nice if we could find out what they want, but the fear or reprisal would make that difficult.
Why focus on Tibet? Because a certain group uses violence to be heard? Should the UK give in to the IRA right now?
The UK still occupies the north, the IRA claim the North wants to be free.
China's oppression is hard to stomach, it doesn't mean they are automatically wrong.
Thats hyperole, if you're going to make comments on this board, I'd appreciate you did not state your opinion as fact.The PRC is a dictatorship, so its hardly any better really.
That is with my moderator hat, I expect a clarification of this in any further responds.
Are they? Good question, you assume they are. But again, the same could be said for all of China. Why focus on Tibet. What are the motives?Again, the average Tibetan can't really speak up for fear of reprisal from the PRC. It would be great to find out what they really think, but we can't get that info, as the PRC is preventing it.
What you and everyone else fails to realise is that the ones causing the noice are the ones with LOTS to gain. Their previous record of rule was in violation of every human rights law in our society.
Do you think the Lama should get power back? Why?0 -
The US (the only super power), is hated by a lot of people. If China took its place, hatred of China would become very popular.
The reason that US is hated is because of its aggressive politics.I doubt that we can compare china with US.In the history,China has never invaded other countries as US has done.As for the Western media. I think China which is well known for censorship (not to mention the "Great Firewall"), really need to practice what preaches, but producing some unbiased media. I wait with baited breath for such a thing to come about.
Till then I will take the flawed Western media any day of the week, while there is a lot of rubbish put out there, the truth is usually available, it just take a bit of looking to find and at least in the West, we have the opportunity to do so. This of course doesn't excuse Western media outlets that engage in propaganda, but at least the real information can be found.
YES nowadays no 100% honest media.ALL the media,no matter from which country,have to consider more about their benefit,financially I'd say.
The Western media can be half truth half craps,so is chinese media.The problem is that we acquire info about china/chinese media through the western media.How can we know if the info from the western media is real not faked?
I agree that many people are wise enough to judge by themselves.But how can you judge the Chinese media without understanding the language they use?How do you know that there's no truth in their report without reading what they write?
When i was China,I could access all the foreign media by means of radio,internet.I logged on CNN,new york times on a daily basis.My friends from the Irish community in Beijing listen to Irish radios (98fm,etc.) to get the latest results on GAA.
True,China does ban certain websites,including pornography and anti-government.
Anti-government is not welcomed in any state.For example,Garda banned the website of Iras and radical nationalists.should we call it "deprive the human rights and freedom"?And imagine some of the memebers from the banned groups organise a demonstration agaisnt it,shall we support them and start abusing the government?
I also remember that China launched a moon explorer last year.But none of the media in Europe talked about it. WHY0 -
-
But where is the evidence that they are?
The ones who are complaining are a former theocratic establishment that had the country enslaved before the PRC returned to Tibet.
BTW, Tibet never had independent status, even prior to 1949.
So what if Tibet didn't have independent status? There was no such thing as a country as India either until 1947, that was no reason for them not to get independence from the British.
If the Tibetan people want there own country, they should be allowed to realize those national aspirations. So why not let them decide? The Dalai Lama and the PRC (and others) can take there cases to the Tibetan people and let them decide what there fate should be.True, but that could be said for any region in China.
Why focus on Tibet? Because a certain group uses violence to be heard? Should the UK give in to the IRA right now?
The UK still occupies the north, the IRA claim the North wants to be free.
China's oppression is hard to stomach, it doesn't mean they are automatically wrong.
Oppressors are always wrong imo.Thats hyperole, if you're going to make comments on this board, I'd appreciate you did not state your opinion as fact.
That is with my moderator hat, I expect a clarification of this in any further responds.
I think the current record on Human rights is pretty bad firstly:
HRW:
China: Activist’s Jailing Spotlights Olympics’ Negative Effect on Rights
Summary of China Rights Developments
Amnesty:
What human rights legacy for the Beijing Olympics?Are they? Good question, you assume they are. But again, the same could be said for all of China. Why focus on Tibet. What are the motives?
What you and everyone else fails to realise is that the ones causing the noice are the ones with LOTS to gain. Their previous record of rule was in violation of every human rights law in our society.
Do you think the Lama should get power back? Why?
The current regime is pretty bad as can be seen from above. PRC rule is no good thing for a lot of people in China. Why should the PRC, be allowed control of Tibet considering there current appalling Human rights record?
Also, the Tibetan people should decide how they want to be ruled and should be given a choice, which the current system doesn't allow. The Dalai Lama btw, want more autonomy as opposed to full independence.
Why shouldn't they kick up a fuss btw? If they see PRC's rule in Tibet as being wrong for there people, they have right to say so.0 -
The reason that US is hated is because of its aggressive politics.I doubt that we can compare china with US.In the history,China has never invaded other countries as US has done.
One of the reasons the US is disliked is its super power status, which many think it uses to bully the rest of the world. The US isn't exclusively hated due to its invasions, take it funding of Israel for example.YES nowadays no 100% honest media.ALL the media,no matter from which country,have to consider more about their benefit,financially I'd say.
The Western media can be half truth half craps,so is chinese media.The problem is that we acquire info about china/chinese media through the western media.How can we know if the info from the western media is real not faked?
I have access to multiple sources and can eventually find out the truth. The Chinese media is regularly censored and trying to equate the 2 is ridiculous. How many sites are still blocked by the "Great Firewall"? As bad as the Western media may be, at least its largely free of censorship.I agree that many people are wise enough to judge by themselves.But how can you judge the Chinese media without understanding the language they use?How do you know that there's no truth in their report without reading what they write?
Its government controlled and censored. I see no value in looking at such media.
If you can point me out to an independent Chinese media source (thats in English), then I will take a look, but I have no interest in the government controlled media.When i was China,I could access all the foreign media by means of radio,internet.I logged on CNN,new york times on a daily basis.My friends from the Irish community in Beijing listen to Irish radios (98fm,etc.) to get the latest results on GAA.
True,China does ban certain websites,including pornography and anti-government.
The BBC was banned until recently. Why was that? Is it because the PRC just didn't like what it said?
Why not have anti-government web sites? As long as there not violent and just high lights government abuses.Anti-government is not welcomed in any state.For example,Garda banned the website of Iras and radical nationalists.should we call it "deprive the human rights and freedom"?And imagine some of the memebers from the banned groups organise a demonstration agaisnt it,shall we support them and start abusing the government?
Comparing Human rights activists to terrorists?
China: Activist’s Jailing Spotlights Olympics’ Negative Effect on Rights
I posted that earlier. Being arrested for speaking out against government abuses is not terrorism.I also remember that China launched a moon explorer last year.But none of the media in Europe talked about it. WHY
Why talk about it? If China launched a manned mission to Mars, it would have gotten press.0 -
Sorry but did you check the videos?
peaceful protests?? I have never see so "peaceful" protest ever!
I know there were was violence, but can you link this to the Dalai Lama. Did he order this violence?
All the interviews etc with him has him being against all violence. The PRC's claims have no proof and are directly contradicted by the Dalai Lama has said.0 -
The PRC themselves describe themselves a dictatorship in their constitution:
Thats hyperole, if you're going to make comments on this board, I'd appreciate you did not state your opinion as fact.wes wrote:The PRC's current problems, stem from not listening to its minorities and like all dictatorships engaging in oppression to shut those up who question the regime.
That is with my moderator hat, I expect a clarification of this in any further responds."The people's democratic dictatorship led by the working class and based on the alliance of workers and peasants"While I don't think anyone will deny the dictatorship aspect of this, I don't think anyone will try to claim that China is democratic except in a very superficial sense.
0 -
SkepticOne wrote: »The PRC themselves describe themselves a dictatorship in their constitution:"The people's democratic dictatorship led by the working class and based on the alliance of workers and peasants"While I don't think anyone will deny the dictatorship aspect of this, I don't think anyone will try to claim that China is democratic except in a very superficial sense.
Ah, thanks was confused there. I taught what was wanted was examples of Human Rights abuses.0 -
-
Advertisement
-
It was the claim that China is a dictatorship.
Which it isn't. You are fogging facts with your post, the constitution states that it is a "democratic dictatorship" - your purposefully ignored the democratic part. The meaning of democratic dictatorship is far from the meaning of a dictatorship and nobody with sense shoudl confuse the two unless they are doing so dishonestly. True China is not a true democracy, however, there is no dictatorship in effect.
This is not a common dictatorship. The premise is that the government act on behalfof the people, but use dictorial means when required to ensure the well being of the state.
A dictatorship, implies a dictator, in China there isn't one and even the head of state must appease the council.
In effect, the PRC is run by the National Peoples Congress.
Definition:dictatorship
1. The office or tenure of a dictator.
2. A state or government under dictatorial rule.
3. Absolute or despotic control or power.
None of these definitions fit the PRC government.
So again, I'm asking Wes to either show that China's government is a dictatorship as he stated, or retract.0
This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement