Grand Slam Sunday

d22ontour

Draw

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

2: Reina saved about 10 certain goal but ****ed up countless times. He had the worst performance I have seen since he joined the club. VDS has little to do and made 1 little mistake iirc.

4: You are taking the piss even comparing them, aren't you?

Kuyt v Tevez does sound hilarious but i agree with Reina . probably one of the best 2/3 keepers in England since he signed and bar his mistakes today, stopped a complete drubbing.

jesus_thats_gre

Draw

d22ontour wrote: »

3-0 hmmm .

For me 5-0 or 6-0 would have shut a lot of peeps up about how close they think both teams are.Today was as good a chance of getting that scoreline considering the chances created against their inform team.They offered nothing over 90 minutes and only for Reina would have gotten the drubbing that would show the gulf but alas we will have to settle for 3-0 and the ref ruined our day for us cráp they spout 'though i did say Masch shouldn't have been sent off'.Dominated for 90 minutes and got away with a 3-0 defeat is as good as it gets.

Ah come on, you have to be taking the piss. United were deserving winners and generated enough clear chances to win the match. Saying that, you were playnig 10 men for nearly 60 mins. Up to that point United were looking far more up for it than Liverpool who were majorly off the boil. Saying that, if it had of remained 11 vs 11, you never know what would have happened in the second half.

But to imply that 3 - 0 doesn't sufficiently represent the difference in class between the two team is absolutely disgraceful. There is one thing gloating but that is throlling of the highest order. That or it shows you know very little about football.

Mitch Connor

d22ontour wrote: »

Kuyt v Tevez does sound hilarious but i agree with Reina . probably one of the best 2/3 keepers in England since he signed and bar his mistakes today, stopped a complete drubbing.

i didn't see that with Reina to be honest - made a good save from tevez to be fair, but the saves from Rooney and Ronaldo were simply as the result of shocking finishes. Put it this way, if either Rooney or Ronaldo had scored their one on one chances with the shots they hit, would people have said there was nothing Reina could do or that he should have done better? Personally, if either strikes had gone in (basically through the keeper..) I would have been saying they were lucky strikes. I don't think there were many stunning saves made today.

Mr.Nice Guy

Draw

Happy enough with how the weekend went. I thought Liverpool were really poor. United were the better team, even before the sending off. As for Mascherano, I think he got what he deserved. I watched Andy Gray on The Last Word and was disappointed he chose to focus purely on the incident where Mascherano got sent off rather than including the earlier ones before that where he kept on badgering the ref. At least RTE and BBC did so. Alonso knew Mascherano was acting stupidly but he lost the head. Fair play to Bennett I say. I don't like seeing refs put up with sh*t and think it's high time rugby was seen as the standard that should be matched.

I thought Rooney did really well today for United setting up two of the goals and causing problems for the Liverpool defence. Ferdinand was immense for United at the back. Maybe Liverpool would have done better had Torres been playing. What? He WAS playing? Get outta here.

Chelsea vs Arsenal was better than I thought it would be. Drogba seems to be hitting top form. Unbelievable how fickle the Chelsea fans are. One minute Grant doesn't know what he's doing and the next minute he's a genius. I really think it would be a travesty if that club won the league considering the attitude of their players, their direct style of play and the way their manager gets treated, but perhaps I'm being biased I dunno. Arsenal were a bit unlucky as Chelsea's first was definitely offside.

Looks like a very intriguing run-in. Chelsea have some handy home games but some tricky away ones. It might go down to the last game of the season but I think Utd have the greater bottle for the final stretch.

d22ontour

Draw

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Not won it for 20 years and still hold nearly every record that exist.
Dominated English football for 15 years and still trail in literally every record.




Don't be so childish. It can easily be countered and remember one thing, you will stop winning someday.

United didn't win it for 30 years almost. Of course United will stop winning but the question is will United get to 19 1st ?

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

But to imply that 3 - 0 doesn't sufficiently represent the difference in class between the two team is absolutely disgraceful.

Liverpool in the best premiership form of their season offered nothing for 90 minutes do you not agree ?
United failed to punish Liverpool more before Masch sending off do you not agree ?
The game could have easily finished 5-0 or 6-0 bar for me some good goalkeeping/ bad finishing and even the most bittered couldn't disagree with that.

That is a gulf.

I do not underestimate Liverpools potential in some competitions and would favour them in Europe ahead of United but to call me a troll when it is plain to see the quality difference in both squads is well unfounded.United dominated today before and after the red card imo and showed what you aspire to be tbh.

jesus_thats_gre

Draw

PHB wrote:

First off, we had the better of the game before the sending off, fully deserved their lead.

Overall, I felt United were poor. Fergie went defensive again, but it worked out ok. Anderson dropped deep providing United with that extra man in midfield which made the difference in terms of really controlling the game in the 1st half, but his attacking play was very poor. Still hasn't found his shooting boots.
The second Nani and Tevez came on, we were much better attacking. Overall United were poor though, beat Liverpool but due to a mistake by them, not due to our own good play. I don't like playing football this way to be honest, but I guess it worked out. Had the match stayed 11 v 11, I wouldn't have been surprised to draw it.

Ref was poor. Torres booking was a joke. Mascherano was an idiot.
First off, there is no doubt in my mind that Mascherano would have been sent off for persistant fouling. He had fouled 3 times since the yellow card, and was really walking a tightrope. He tried to do what Diarra did to us two weeks ago, but the ref wasn't allowing it.
Second, Mascherano was not booked for arguing about Torres' yellow card. He was booked a second time because this was at least the 3rd time he had questioned the refs decision since being booked. He was constantly arguing with the ref, and I don't think its surprising that the ref got fed up with him and booked him. Was probabaly harsh, but Mascherano was completely at fault, while the ref was only slightly at fault [I don't think he stamped his authority on the game]

Reina was bad today. United exploited what has always been his weakness, dealing with crosses. I do think he is very much overrated by Liverpool fans, I think his decision making isn't quite top class, but that said, that's gona come with times. Did do some great shot stopping tonight.

Ronaldo was poor today, very poor actually, but he got a goal in the end
Why in the world Alonso was marking our best header of the ball is beyond me.

Scholes was magical again. Nowhere near past it as some people have suggested.

That said, I'm very very happy
5 points ahead of Chelsea, 6 points ahead of Arsenal, 7 games left. 14 points ahead of Liverpool!

Would have liked a Chelsea draw today, but much better them win than Arsenal.

Fair assessment. Should address most of your questions there..

_blank_

Draw

OK, let me state from the start, I'm not trolling.

Masch was in the refs ear the whole first half tbh. A professional player should damn well know what refs will take it and what refs won't. If the player doesn't know, the manager should know, and tell them.

I watched it with a bunch of lads, United, Pool and Chelsea. We could all see that he was walking a thin line from his booking. Stupid, stupid second yellow. He should be able to control himself. He didn't. He paid the price.

His own fault.

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

I think Bennett is a knob. .

So does the whole football world. He is the one you don't want to piss off. You know it, I know it, we all know it. Masch should have known it.

It changed the game, no doubt. United were able to control the game in the second half.

Quality strike from Nani.

Second game was great tbh. Really enjoyed watching it. Both teams going for the win. Fair balls to Grant, his changes won the game for Chelsea.

justfortherecor

Arsenal

Mascherano's footballing brain is undoubted, however his general intelligence was sadly lacking yesterday.

In a week where the Ashley Cole incident made every sports page and where players were surely told to keep dissent to referees to a minimum by managers so soon after that debacle, to do what he did yesterday is unforgivable. He harangued the referee from the outset and was consistently fouling as well. I'll agree that the Torres booking was a bit of a farce, but the aftermath with Mascherano was disgraceful and it was painfully obvious he was going to get sent off.

astrofool

justfortherecor wrote: »

Mascherano's footballing brain is undoubted, however his general intelligence was sadly lacking yesterday.

In a week where the Ashley Cole incident made every sports page and where players were surely told to keep dissent to referees to a minimum by managers so soon after that debacle, to do what he did yesterday is unforgivable. He harangued the referee from the outset and was consistently fouling as well. I'll agree that the Torres booking was a bit of a farce, but the aftermath with Mascherano was disgraceful and it was painfully obvious he was going to get sent off.

I think Mascherano was following the boards.ie rule, that if you put a smiley face on the end of it, you can say whatever the fúcking hell you sh!tting want

RedorDead

DesF wrote: »

OK, let me state from the start, I'm not trolling.

Masch was in the refs ear the whole first half tbh. A professional player should damn well know what refs will take it and what refs won't. If the player doesn't know, the manager should know, and tell them.

This is where Gerard should have stepped in. A captain is the one player allowed to have this sort of communication with the ref. Poor captaincy by Stevie Me. It wasnt Alonsos job to try and pull Mascherano away.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Draw

There is no allowance for a captain to be the one who can talk to the referee. even if we think that there should be, the only sure thing is that if it was Gerrard he would not have been off.

PHB

Chelsea

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

1: Carrick today but he wasn't particularly special. Alonso also played in a 10 man team for 2/3rds of the match so would't have been able to play his normal game at all.

2: Reina saved about 10 certain goal but ****ed up countless times. He had the worst performance I have seen since he joined the club. VDS has little to do and made 1 little mistake iirc.

3: Never up for discussion. Rio has been alot better than Carra all season.

4: You are taking the piss even comparing them, aren't you?

Oh no you see that was a fair assessment My point was simply that over the past couple of months, all of those Liverpool players have been said to be much better [and in the case of Kuyt and Tevez similar] than their respective United players. Was just pointing out how stupid those statements are.

Alonso is not the player he was when he first came. Not playing great at all. Carrick was quietly very good, and did a very good defensive job aswell.

Reina saved some great one on ones, there's no denying his shot stopping ability. Nonetheless, he made two mistakes in an area that he is known to be weak in to all people bar Liverpool fans, dealing with crosses. Not saying that won't come in time, but just saying the suggestion he is miles above VDS is just silly.

The other two are obvioulsy silly, yet people will still slate Ferdinand as a player (as a person, he's of course not great )

ntlbell

homerjay2005 wrote: »

browne - (7) had babble in his pocket and scored, job done.

That's the funniest statment on the thread.

To be fair to babel fish he could pwn wes at will and I was really suprised they didn't keep trying to spread the ball to him more often with crouch on he could of had a feild day.

But there's not many armchair coaches that don't have better tactical awareness than rafa

LuckyLloyd

Draw

United deserved winners - 3 - 0 barely doing them justice. Liverpool were poor - but it was always going to be an exceptionally difficult task even before we gave away a sloppy goal and suffered a stupid sending off.

What is the ****ing point of a captains armband in soccer anyway? In many other sports it is the captains job to directly communicate with the officials on behalf of his team and anyone else remonstrating gets disciplined. However, a rugby or hockey captain is allowed to request an explanation of decisions. Soccer seems to have the worst of both worlds. All players can complain; and referees do not have to offer an immediate justification of their decisions to the players. FIFA should be spending time on this sort of stuff. Because incidents like yesterday make a joke of the sport.

FatherTed

Before the game, I was made fun of in this thread for saying that comparing player for player on each team is a pointless exercise. Anyways, much has been said about the sending off and all I have to say on that is that Mascherano was yapping to the ref any time a call went against Liverpool and the referee warned him. In a way the sending off takes away a lot of the gloss off the Man Utd victory. Remember Man Utd were leading, were in control of the game and should have been more than one goal up when that happened.

Torres did not have a bad game, but he was simply outmatched by Ferdinand. Torres is a tremendous player but anyone who thinks Torres is the best striker in the world leading up to this game has been suckered by the media. He's a youngster still learning his trade and Ferdinand is an expert at his peak, there is a fair distance between the players in terms of experience and know-how. I thought Torres showed a lot of heart, which his team simply did not even try and match. Gerrard was anonymous and should have calmed Mascherano down.

Ferdinand, Rooney and Scholes were the stand-outs by some distance. I thought Rooney had his best game in a while and was more unfortunate, than poor in front of goal. Reina shut his space down immediately and that's hard to deal with if you're not a natural finisher.

lordgoat

Draw

FatherTed wrote: »

Before the game, I was made fun of in this thread for saying that comparing player for player on each team is a pointless exercise. Anyways, much has been said about the sending off and all I have to say on that is that Mascherano was yapping to the ref any time a call went against Liverpool and the referee warned him. In a way the sending off takes away a lot of the gloss off the Man Utd victory. Remember Man Utd were leading, were in control of the game and should have been more than one goal up when that happened.

Torres did not have a bad game, but he was simply outmatched by Ferdinand. Torres is a tremendous player but anyone who thinks Torres is the best striker in the world leading up to this game has been suckered by the media. He's a youngster still learning his trade and Ferdinand is an expert at his peak, there is a fair distance between the players in terms of experience and know-how. I thought Torres showed a lot of heart, which his team simply did not even try and match. Gerrard was anonymous and should have calmed Mascherano down.

Ferdinand, Rooney and Scholes were the stand-outs by some distance. I thought Rooney had his best game in a while and was more unfortunate, than poor in front of goal. Reina shut his space down immediately and that's hard to deal with if you're not a natural finisher.

Well said. +1.

cournioni

Arsenal

Reina > Van der Sar
Liverpool's midfield > Utd's midfield
Torres > Rooney.

Nyesss...

jesus_thats_gre

Draw

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

Reina > Van der Sar
Liverpool's midfield > Utd's midfield
Torres > Rooney.

Nyesss...

VDS is a great keeper but I think Reina is a slightly better keep purely for his distribution. It is not exactly the end of the world.

Liverpool's central midfield trio is better than the best 3 that United have - not head and shoulders but slightly better. Yes, United outplayed Liverpool on Sunday but it was against 10 men for 60 mins. That match could have been turned on it's head in the space of 10 mins. I actually don't think it would have as one Masch got the yellow card, his effectiveness was severly stunted and the rest of the Liverpool team just weren't at the races.

Rooney is a world class player but Torres is on a par with him in nearly every aspect and can actually finish when 1 on 1 with the keeper.

Where United do beat Liverpool is across the back, both wings and up front. We have 1 world class striker and 1 hot prospect and nothing on the bench. Ye had 2 world class players (Rooney and Ronaldo) on the pitch, 1 more on the bench (Tevez) and 1 hot prospect (Nani) on the bench.

I have said it on many occassions, Liverpool are a minimum of 3 (2 dependig on the system) world class players away from their first 11 being geuine contenders for the league. The signings we made recently (Masch, Torres, Babel) nearly brought us on par with United at the end last season. Unfortunately for us, United added Tevez, Hargreaves, Nani and Anderson.

That is the result of United being being 2, maybe 3 years, ahead of the curve.

Saying alll that, the Liverpool team that was fielded on Sunday was defo capable of beating the United team that was fielded. Any comparisons made were done so after that suggestion was laughed off.

cournioni

Arsenal

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

VDS is a great keeper but I think Reina is a slightly better keep purely for his distribution. It is not exactly the end of the world.

Liverpool's central midfield trio is better than the best 3 that United have - not head and shoulders but slightly better. Yes, United outplayed Liverpool on Sunday but it was against 10 men for 60 mins. That match could have been turned on it's head in the space of 10 mins. I actually don't think it would have as one Masch got the yellow card, his effectiveness was severly stunted and the rest of the Liverpool team just weren't at the races.

Rooney is a world class player but Torres is on a par with him in nearly every aspect and can actually finish when 1 on 1 with the keeper.

Where United do beat Liverpool is across the back, both wings and up front. We have 1 world class striker and 1 hot prospect and nothing on the bench. Ye had 2 world class players (Rooney and Ronaldo) on the pitch, 1 more on the bench (Tevez) and 1 hot prospect (Nani) on the bench.

I have said it on many occassions, Liverpool are a minimum of 3 (2 dependig on the system) world class players away from their first 11 being geuine contenders for the league. The signings we made recently (Masch, Torres, Babel) nearly brought us on par with United at the end last season. Unfortunately for us, United added Tevez, Hargreaves, Nani and Anderson.

That is the result of United being being 2, maybe 3 years, ahead of the curve.

Saying alll that, the Liverpool team that was fielded on Sunday was defo capable of beating the United team that was fielded. Any comparisons made were done so after that suggestion was laughed off.

You are kidding me right? I understand that it is in your opinion but Van Der Sar's distribution of the ball is second to none, he has set up Rooney on several occasions with long balls over the top of defences this season including one yesterday. What was Reina's like? Well he more or less gifted a chance to Anderson in the first half and had a number of poor clearances. Given that he may have had an "off day" yesterday, he seems to have alot of them against United. He gifted a goal to O'Shea at Anfield last year, where as VDS hasn't conceded a league goal against Liverpool since he signed for United and has the least goals conceeded this season.

United's midfield have outplayed Liverpool's midfield twice already this season. At Anfield with a 442 formation with Anderson and Hargreaves United outplayed Liverpool and yesterday with a 451 formation with Anderson, Scholes and Carrick while Liverpool had 11 men. I'm sorry but that just doesn't cut it for me...

I agree that Torres is a great striker and one of the only Liverpool players that I'd have in the United team, but Rooney yet again showed his class yesterday even though he missed three glorious chances to score. This may be due to a lack of confidence in front of goal at the moment however because when Rooney scores, there is no stopping him. Torres on the other hand, for the second game in a row against United, didn't get a kick of the ball. Or is it a case of, great United defending and poor Liverpool defending??

Its all well and good saying that United are three years ahead of Liverpool but United like Liverpool also have youth and inexperience in their side also. The likes of Anderson, Nani, Rooney, Ronaldo etc. are still learning, Giggs and Scholes are on their way out and have been playing poorly this season so far. All of these players played yesterday so how do Liverpool have any more of a handicap than United?? I'm sorry but I need clarity on this.

Another thing, where was Gerrard when you needed him yesterday?? Not exactly inspirational...

Xavi6

Draw

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

VDS is a great keeper but I think Reina is a slightly better keep purely for his distribution. It is not exactly the end of the world.

Whatever about all the other points you've made I just can't agree with this. His first touch of the game was a horrible scuff straight out of play from a routine back pass. He proceeded to do it on numberous occassions throughout the game.

Let's not forget the ball he through straight down the middle to Anderson. Everyone knows you play to the wins and your full backs.

VDS on the other hand set up at least one clear cut chance for Rooney and more than once found his wingers with superb 50 yard passes.

astrofool

I think thats one of the main reasons that Fergie was so happy with VDS once signed, and saw him as Schmeichel's successor, VDS has always been quick thinking, and always pushing to turn defence into attack, Reina doesn't seem to have that speed of thought at the moment, but maybe in the future.

Friedel, for example, is a brilliant keeper, but his distribution is woeful, and that's a quality thats needed to play at the highest level.

jesus_thats_gre

Draw

Xavi6 wrote: »

Whatever about all the other points you've made I just can't agree with this. His first touch of the game was a horrible scuff straight out of play from a routine back pass. He proceeded to do it on numberous occassions throughout the game.

Let's not forget the ball he through straight down the middle to Anderson. Everyone knows you play to the wins and your full backs.

VDS on the other hand set up at least one clear cut chance for Rooney and more than once found his wingers with superb 50 yard passes.

He had an awful poor game. I am not talking about one game. I am talking about his performances going back as far as when he joined Liverpool..

jesus_thats_gre

Draw

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

You are kidding me right? I understand that it is in your opinion but Van Der Sar's distribution of the ball is second to none, he has set up Rooney on several occasions with long balls over the top of defences this season including one yesterday. What was Reina's like? Well he more or less gifted a chance to Anderson in the first half and had a number of poor clearances. Given that he may have had an "off day" yesterday, he seems to have alot of them against United. He gifted a goal to O'Shea at Anfield last year, where as VDS hasn't conceded a league goal against Liverpool since he signed for United and has the least goals conceeded this season.

Am stating my opinion. I am saying that I think Reina is a slightly better goalkeeper than VDS. I am not saying that VDS is a poor keeper by any means. You would swear that I have made a statement along the lines of that 6 - 0 would have been more representative of the gulf in quality between both teams.

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

United's midfield have outplayed Liverpool's midfield twice already this season. At Anfield with a 442 formation with Anderson and Hargreaves United outplayed Liverpool and yesterday with a 451 formation with Anderson, Scholes and Carrick while Liverpool had 11 men. I'm sorry but that just doesn't cut it for me...

United are a better team than Liverpool. On the day, Liverpool were seriously off the boil. Does not prove anything. Does not prove that United's central midfield pairing/trio are better than Liverpool's.

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

I agree that Torres is a great striker and one of the only Liverpool players that I'd have in the United team, but Rooney yet again showed his class yesterday even though he missed three glorious chances to score. This may be due to a lack of confidence in front of goal at the moment however because when Rooney scores, there is no stopping him. Torres on the other hand, for the second game in a row against United, didn't get a kick of the ball. Or is it a case of, great United defending and poor Liverpool defending??

Once again, Rooney outplaying Torres in a single match does not mean scratch all. Rooney had a great game but when it came to scoring goals, he failed, again. United have by far the best defence in the league and the fact that Torres was not able to exert himself on the game when half the Liverpool team were extremely poor and playing with 10 men for 60 mins.

Saying that, Liverpool defended awfully throughout the majority of the game.

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

Its all well and good saying that United are three years ahead of Liverpool but United like Liverpool also have youth and inexperience in their side also. The likes of Anderson, Nani, Rooney, Ronaldo etc. are still learning, Giggs and Scholes are on their way out and have been playing poorly this season so far. All of these players played yesterday so how do Liverpool have any more of a handicap than United?? I'm sorry but I need clarity on this.

Rooney and Ronaldo have been playing at the top level for years now. They are learning but are close to being the finished article. Anderson has settled in extremely well and is gonna be an ace player but has not done that much of note tbh. Nani is a player with masses of raw talent with questionable decision making - also only played 20 mins of a game against team that that were playing with 1 man down for nearly 40 mins. He is basically at the same stage that Ronaldo was about 2 or 3 years ago. What are the expected transfer fees for those players expected to end up being again? Wow, 70 million worth of players putting big performance in against 10 men for 60 mins at home is quite an achievement.

I have said it before and will say it again. United were more than deserving of the win and literally outplayed Liverpool in every position. To think that the performance is massive indicator of anything though is slightly OTT - it proves that United are better, that is all.

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

Another thing, where was Gerrard when you needed him yesterday?? Not exactly inspirational...

He is a nothing player sure :rolleyes:

jesus_thats_gre

Draw

Xavi6 wrote: »

Whatever about all the other points you've made I just can't agree with this. His first touch of the game was a horrible scuff straight out of play from a routine back pass. He proceeded to do it on numberous occassions throughout the game.

Let's not forget the ball he through straight down the middle to Anderson. Everyone knows you play to the wins and your full backs.

VDS on the other hand set up at least one clear cut chance for Rooney and more than once found his wingers with superb 50 yard passes.

I will say it again. VDS clearly had a better game. Reina's performance was extremely poor.

I am basing my opionion from performances I have seen in the past 2 or 3 years. Not a single match.

Xavi6

Draw

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

He had an awful poor game. I am not talking about one game. I am talking about his performances going back as far as when he joined Liverpool..

I'd be pretty sure that VDS's distribution has led to more goals than Reina's. I don't trust Reina one bit. He's dodgy as hell under crosses. The incident against Middlesbrough earlier this season typifies why he will never be one of the best keepers in the world imo.

Look at the Chelsea and Arsenal. Cech and Almunia have been pretty flawless all season. I can't say the same about Reina. If Liverpool are ever to challenge properly for the title they will need a better keeper than him.

jesus_thats_gre

Draw

Xavi6 wrote: »

Look at the Chelsea and Arsenal. Cech and Almunia have been pretty flawless all season. I can't say the same about Reina. If Liverpool are ever to challenge properly for the title they will need a better keeper than him.

Not seen Cech playing particularly all season to be honest - vaguely remember thinking he has been pretty poor compared to his normal standard. Almunia is a good keeper but nothing particularly special - nothig really wrong with him either.

I am resolute in my stance that Reina is defo up there in contention as being one of the best all round keepers in the league and is without doubt good enough to play in a championship contending team.

Xavi6

Draw

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Not seen Cech playing particularly all season to be honest - vaguely remember thinking he has been pretty poor compared to his normal standard. Almunia is a good keeper but nothing particularly special.

I am resolute in my stance that Reina is defo up there in contention as being one of the best all round keepers in the league and is without doubt good enough to play in a championship contending team.

I really disagree. In terms of the Premiership, there are at least 5 or 6 keepers ahead of him. I know you'll ask me to list them so here goes -

Cech
VDS
James
Friedel
Given
Almunia
Green

Even Howard has looked better this year, and Jaaskelainen in previous seasons. I know Reina is a good keeper but certainly not up there with the best, which is where Liverpool need him to be.

Melion

Are you lot having a laugh? He has had the most clean sheets in both his 2 years since he signed. His distribution is always top class and has set Babel and Torres away a lot this season with his quick throws and kick outs. Just had an off-day yesterday in that department.

He is easily up there with Cech and VDS as the top 3 in the league. The likes of Green etc shouldnt even be thought of alongside him let alone mentioned.

Xavi6

Draw

Melion wrote: »

Are you lot having a laugh? He has had the most clean sheets in both his 2 years since he signed. His distribution is always top class and has set Babel and Torres away a lot this season with his quick throws and kick outs. Just had an off-day yesterday in that department.

He is easily up there with Cech and VDS as the top 3 in the league. The likes of Green etc shouldnt even be thought of alongside him let alone mentioned.

Why? Because they don't play for one of the 'Big Four'? The likes of Friedel and Green have been just as consistent than the likes of Reina and VDS but never get the credit deserved as they play for unfashionable clubs. Of course they keep less clean sheets than Reina, they play behind inferior defences. Look at David James. Best keeper in the league by a mile this year.

jesus_thats_gre

Draw

Xavi6 wrote: »

Why? Because they don't play for one of the 'Big Four'? The likes of Friedel and Green have been just as consistent than the likes of Reina and VDS but never get the credit deserved as they play for unfashionable clubs. Of course they keep less clean sheets than Reina, they play behind inferior defences. Look at David James. Best keeper in the league by a mile this year.

Ironic that two keepers that couldn't hack the pressure of being at he one of the big four but have since come good now the pressure is off are on that list.

Xavi6

Draw

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Ironic that two keepers that couldn't hack the pressure of being at he one of the big four but have since come good now the pressure is off are on that list.

To be fair to James he went to Liverpool at a very young age from Watford, much in the same way Carson did. Unfortunately for James he didn't get the opportunity of a loan move that has been afforded to Carson and was thrown in at the deep end. As for Friedel, well he also came out of nowhere from the States with a lot of expectation put on his shoulders and it was too much. Big club, big expectation etc. At least Reina had some idea of the concept of playing in a big league after his time in La Liga.

The point really is that since both of them reached their peak and for the last five years or so they have been consistently amongst the best keepers around. Both are better than Reina imo currently and what they did previously is incidental.

ShoulderChip

Draw

Drogba is good too.

jesus_thats_gre

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Xavi6 wrote: »

To be fair to James he went to Liverpool at a very young age from Watford, much in the same way Carson did. Unfortunately for James he didn't get the opportunity of a loan move that has been afforded to Carson and was thrown in at the deep end. As for Friedel, well he also came out of nowhere from the States with a lot of expectation put on his shoulders and it was too much. Big club, big expectation etc. At least Reina had some idea of the concept of playing in a big league after his time in La Liga.

The point really is that since both of them reached their peak and for the last five years or so they have been consistently amongst the best keepers around. Both are better than Reina imo currently and what they did previously is incidental.

James joined Liverpool at a very similar similar age to Reina. Numerous records have been attributed to Reina on this very thread. He has been doing that at an age whereby other keepers on your list bottled it. To use them as examples as better now that they have come 'good' while also dismissing Reina's ability to play in a championship challenging team is somewhat unfair to the say the least.

Reina has been performing at the highest level for a number of seasons now. If he maintains his current performance levels then happy days. If he improves, which he will with age, then even better.

ShoulderChip

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David James smoked 20 cigarretes a day throughout his liverpool career, I can back that up if you want?

Melion

Friedel is a fine keeper, not at the same standard he was 2-3 years ago but still safe. It doesnt matter what club they play for because as you said DJ has been the best keeper in the league this year and i dont think anyone can dispute that. It just amazes me that people can actually think that Reina isnt in the top 3 in the league.

Xavi6

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Melion wrote: »

Friedel is a fine keeper, not at the same standard he was 2-3 years ago but still safe. It doesnt matter what club they play for because as you said DJ has been the best keeper in the league this year and i dont think anyone can dispute that. It just amazes me that people can actually think that Reina isnt in the top 3 in the league.

Why? Cech and James at the very, very least are better than him definitely. As is Given to be fair. Most people would rate VDS higher too so Reina is at the very best 5th. Not that unreasonble to be fair.

Xavi6

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ShoulderChip wrote: »

David James smoked 20 cigarretes a day throughout his liverpool career, I can back that up if you want?

He also plays a lot of Playstation. I'm failing to see what you're getting at. If you mean it affected his performance then no one ever told 40 a day Robert Prosinecki.

Melion

Xavi6 wrote: »

Why? Cech and James at the very, very least are better than him definitely. As is Given to be fair. Most people would rate VDS higher too so Reina is at the very best 5th. Not that unreasonble to be fair.

Given isnt, he just has more saves to make like Green etc have to which makes them seem better than they are.

Cech and Reina are at the same level IMO, James has been better than both this year but over the last 3 years Cech and Reina have been easily the top 2 in the league.

jesus_thats_gre

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Xavi6 wrote: »

Why? Cech and James at the very, very least are better than him definitely. As is Given to be fair. Most people would rate VDS higher too so Reina is at the very best 5th. Not that unreasonble to be fair.

I genuinely rate Given as a keeper but one think I have always wondered is why none of the big clubs made a play for him. There has been the odd rumour but feck all. Always wondered why this was.

By your logic and how you rank keepers, it is not unresonable to say he is 5th. Just like some would rate VDS as being better, some would also rate Reina as easily being superior to Friedel, James, Given, or Green. He is without doubt in the top 3 keepers in the league.

Xavi6

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Melion wrote: »

Given isnt, he just has more saves to make like Green etc have to which makes them seem better than they are.

Cech and Reina are at the same level IMO, James has been better than both this year but over the last 3 years Cech and Reina have been easily the top 2 in the league.

'Easily' is a bit of an exaggeration. Van Der Sar has been just as good. United's defensive record, goals conceded etc. will vouch for that.

I'm sorry but you don't seem to be giving any credit to any keeper who plays outside the niche of the top 4.

jesus_thats_gre

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And I hate getting dragged into these bull**** arguments. I don't actually care but I just cannot resist replying to outlandish or throllish posts.

Before you say it, am not referring to Xavi at all. He is making fair points but we just disagree.

Melion

Xavi6 wrote: »

'Easily' is a bit of an exaggeration. Van Der Sar has been just as good. United's defensive record, goals conceded etc. will vouch for that.

I'm sorry but you don't seem to be giving any credit to any keeper who plays outside the niche of the top 4.

Who did i just say has been the best keeper in the league this year?

So Uniteds defensive record and goals conceded will speak for VDS and say how good he is but Reina isnt as good even though we've conceded less and he's had more clean sheets???

jesus_thats_gre

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Xavi6 wrote: »

'Easily' is a bit of an exaggeration. Van Der Sar has been just as good. United's defensive record, goals conceded etc. will vouch for that.

I'm sorry but you don't seem to be giving any credit to any keeper who plays outside the niche of the top 4.

That is because they are inferior keepers. Eventually, a keeper that is worthy of playing at the highest level but is playing at a mid table club, he will be picked up.

Xavi6

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jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

I genuinely rate Given as a keeper but one think I have always wondered is why none of the big clubs made a play for him. There has been the odd rumour but feck all. Always wondered why this was.

By your logic and how you rank keepers, it is not unresonable to say he is 5th. Just like some would rate VDS as being better, some would also rate Reina as easily being superior to Friedel, James, Given, or Green. He is without doubt in the top 3 keepers in the league.

See there it is again. He is not 'without doubt' in the top 3 in the league. There is plenty of doubt about it.

jesus_thats_gre

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Xavi6 wrote: »

See there it is again. He is not 'without doubt' in the top 3 in the league. There is plenty of doubt about it.

According to you..... So you saying that he is not holds more weight than me saying that he is?

Xavi6

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jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

That is because they are inferior keepers. Eventually, a keeper that is worthy of playing at the highest level but is playing at a mid table club, he will be picked up.

So the best keepers always end up at the big clubs? Just like Taibi did. It doesn't always work as cut and dry as you make it with Shay Given being case in point. We all know he was the best keeper in the league for a number of consecutive seasons yet he never wanted to leave Newcastle. Merely playing for a top 4 club isn't the only benchmark by which a goalkeeper should be judged.

Xavi6

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jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

According to you..... So you saying that he is not holds more weight than me saying that he is?

Nope. I've never once said he is 'without doubt not in the top 3'. I've said in my opinion he is not. Big difference.

Melion

Xavi6 wrote: »

See there it is again. He is not 'without doubt' in the top 3 in the league. There is plenty of doubt about it.

As i just said, he has set a lot of records since he signed for us yet still cant be rated highly. He has more clean sheets in his 2 and a half years in the PL than any other keeper in that time period yet still cant get recognition.

ShoulderChip

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Xavi6 wrote: »

He also plays a lot of Playstation. I'm failing to see what you're getting at. If you mean it affected his performance then no one ever told 40 a day Robert Prosinecki.

thats true but check out over here
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055261376

I did not know he played playstation

ShoulderChip

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its easy to get that poll right when its still up after the matches!!