Diesel prices

Marcus.Aurelius

JHMEG wrote: »

http://www.catf.us/projects/diesel/dieselhealth/

Diesel kills ~21,000 people a year in the US. That site gives details.

New diesels might be better, plenty of old diesels still around. Both are a lot dirtier than petrol.

If right was right cigarettes and diesel would be illegal.

Diesel engines in the US run on high-sulphur diesel. In the EU, we have much stricter emissions laws for manufacturers, as well as diesel suppliers. The levels iof most carcinogenic materials emitted from EU-regulated diesel engines is much, much lower.

You need to reference it to the EU to get any meaningful results for discussion

Marcus.Aurelius

Actually here's a good link

http://www.dieselnet.com/standards/eu/fuel.php

# Effective 1994.10, a maximum sulfur limit of 0.2% (wt.) was introduced for all gas oils, including diesel fuel. The minimum cetane number was 49.
# 1996.10: A maximum sulfur limit of 0.05% (wt.) = 500 ppm for diesel fuel.
# 2000.01: A maximum sulfur limit of 350 ppm and cetane number of 51 for diesel fuel.
# 2005.01: A maximum sulfur limit of 50 ppm for diesel fuel. “Sulfur-free” 10 ppm sulfur diesel fuel must be available for highway vehicles.
# 2009.01: A maximum sulfur limit of 10 ppm (“sulfur-free”) for diesel fuel for highway and nonroad vehicl

SV

1.43 a litre for Diesel yesterday someplace in Carlow...

think it was toughers.

JHMEG

maoleary wrote: »

Diesel engines in the US run on high-sulphur diesel. In the EU, we have much stricter emissions laws for manufacturers, as well as diesel suppliers. The levels iof most carcinogenic materials emitted from EU-regulated diesel engines is much, much lower.

You need to reference it to the EU to get any meaningful results for discussion

Sorry, is killing people in the US irrelevant, just cos they're not in Europe?

JHMEG

maoleary wrote: »

You need to reference it to the EU to get any meaningful results for discussion

There is nothing to discuss.

Emissions of the highly noxious pollutants known as nitrogen oxides (NOx) and particulate matter (PM) from diesel vehicles are currently four to five times higher than for petrol vehicles.

I can't find the link now but the WHO estimated traffic fumes, especially from diesel, kill about 80,000 people a year in Europe (vs 21,000 in the US).

Lex Luthor

noticed in the last 2 days, the garage prices for diesel seemed to have come back down to about 1c above petrol since all the bitching on the radio

SoBe

just had a look at the local gas station here in michigan,gas is 3.35 a gallon and diesel is 4.19

i didnt think there would have been that big of a difference tbh.

edit: ever think whats going to happen if the dollar evens back up with the euro?since the dollar is so weak it has absorbed the price increase of oil for the euro zone.

E92

maoleary wrote: »

Are you just whinging as petrol fanboys or do you have a point to all this?

By logic we should have taxed petrol and diesel instead of road tax and VRT, so the polluter would actually pay. You can't just blame diesel and opt to tax it more heavily than petrol.

Besides, new diesel engines are very low in NOx emissions and sulphur diox emissions. Especially newer BMW engines.

The EU6 rules which come into force in 2014 will make diesels as clean as EURO 4 petrols.

A Euro 4 diesel can pollute as much as 0.25 g/km of Nitrous Oxide. A Euro 4 petrol is only allowed 0.08, so diesels are more than 3 times dirtier there.

On this site I found the following:

The European Federation for Transport and the Environment (T&E) strongly supports stronger emissions standards but regrets the weakness of the Euro 5 and 6 standards, notably as regards NOx emissions, which it says cause smog, respiratory problems and acid rain. The NGO also deplores the fact that four-wheel drive vehicles (or SUVs) have been allowed an additional three year transition period before having to comply with the new rules. "The Parliament, in its 'wisdom', has concluded that SUVs - these unsafe, antisocial, heavily-polluting cars - should be allowed to pump lethal emissions into the air for an extended period," said T&E Director Jos Dings. He added that the new legislation created an "unbelievable situation" where Euro 6 standards, to be enforced after 2014, will be weaker than those in California and ten other American states (40mg/km for both petrol and diesel cars): "An American consumer can buy a super-clean Mercedes diesel today in their local dealer, while a German will have to wait until 2015 to buy something even remotely similar. There is simply no excuse for allowing Europe to lose its leadership in this area."

Even when we do finally get clean diesels in 6 years time(10 years after the same cleanliness was achieved with petrols), they will be using AdBlue(bar Honda), and when you run out of AdBlue you're back to dirty smelly diesel.

AdBlue comes from Natural Gas, a non renewable resource. Thats very green now isn't it:rolleyes:?

Honda are the only people who will have a clean diesel, but it turns out that these super clean diesels actually aren't a lot better on CO2 than petrol.

I completely agree with you that only the fuel should be taxed. That way you would pay for your pollution. Goes back to why I said diesel should be dearer. If a diesel is 13% better on mpg, then it is actually no better for the planet on CO2(than a petrol), but is much worse for our health and air quality. The current VRT system means that manufacturers will only introduce cars with better emissions standards if there is a reduction in VRT. That's hardly fair. The Government should have made DPFs mandatory too. That would hugely reduce the bad effects of diesels on our health and air quality(in fairness most diesels do have DPFs these days but I know some manufacturers left them out for Ireland presumably because of VRT).

Merc's new DiesOtto engine coming in around 2014(which runs on petrol) will give all the advantages of lower CO2, torque and economy of diesels, combined with the superior power, noise, and refinement of petrols, and then there will be no need for diesel ever again, because burning the same quantity of petrol as diesel emits around 11% less CO2 into the atmosphere.

JHMEG

Nice post E92. Well done.

TheBazman

SoBe wrote: »

edit: ever think whats going to happen if the dollar evens back up with the euro?since the dollar is so weak it has absorbed the price increase of oil for the euro zone.

There are a lot of complicating factors at the moment. Currently people are really risk averse and are selling the USD and simulataneously putting their money into "safe" products like commodities, oil, gold etc. That is what has been happening recently. This week we did see however crude oil and gold drop by around 10%. The USD stages a small rally back but not by 10%. Hopefully we see commodities come back to a level that would be some sort of equilibrium for the current demand, and simultaneously see the USD remain relatively weak. That would be a win win for us European motorists

yayamark

I have a 2.4 petrol audi and do about 10 - 12,000 miles a year.

Was thinking of changing to an Audi 2.0tdi in the summer, prob 04 year. Gonna get it in England.

Is it worth my while changing to diesel?

A diesel is gonna be more expensive to buy, Diesel is a nice bit more expensive at the moment.

Would i be better off just getting a 04 petrol in England?

Opinions greatly appreciated.

shawnee

There is a cartel going on in various places with diesel prices. I notice in general if in Limerick all stations in Raheen area charge up to 126 per litre. I was in Dungarvan the weekend and got diesel for 119 and this was freely available. That is an unacceptable difference for exactly the same product., there should be some price control .:mad: However in general I will shop around and fill up where prices are low.

E92

yayamark wrote: »

I have a 2.4 petrol audi and do about 10 - 12,000 miles a year.

Was thinking of changing to an Audi 2.0tdi in the summer, prob 04 year. Gonna get it in England.

Is it worth my while changing to diesel?

A diesel is gonna be more expensive to buy, Diesel is a nice bit more expensive at the moment.

Would i be better off just getting a 04 petrol in England?

Opinions greatly appreciated.

Going to a 2.0 4 cylinder diesel from a V6 petrol will mean a big drop in power, as well as a big increase in diesel clatter and noise. A V6 engine would be a lot smoother and better sounding than a 4 cylinder too.

Of course, it will be a lot thriftier, but there is a big price to pay(as detailed by me above).

I'd go for a V6 diesel A6(i.e. a 2.5 or bigger). You will still have diesel clatter and noise, but being a 6 cylinder engine it will be a much better noise and a V6 diesel would offer superior performance, noise and refinement over the 2.0 diesel, as well as still being a good bit more economical than the current car you have.

A 2.5-3.0 diesel A6 would be about the same on mpg as a 1.8 petrol in say an Avensis or Mondeo(as long as you stay away from the quattro model), but offers the performance of a petrol of similar capacity and probably a bit more because of all the extra torque.

vibe666

E92 speaketh words of trutheth.

The car (I'm still trying to sell) in my sig is a 2.2DCi with heaps of power but is more economical that my old 1.3L petrol fiesta. it sounds crazy, but with a decent sized diesel engine you could pretty much drive around without hardly ever even touching the throttle.

admittedly it has a 6 speed gearbox which helps, but I did an experiment with it a while back and reset the MPG meter on the trip computer and drove it around without ever going over 1500rpm and she bought back over 50mpg!

even regular driving give me at least 45mpg and I'd struggled to break 40mpg driving her hard unless I was going stupidly out of my way with my gear changes.

Cionád

vibe666 wrote: »

E92 speaketh words of trutheth.

The car (I'm still trying to sell) in my sig

Your linkage seems to be broketh.

JHMEG

E92 wrote: »

You will still have diesel clatter and noise, but being a 6 cylinder engine it will be a much better noise

That's not true. The W12 Phaeton TDI sounds as bad as the 1.9 TDI at idle. Under load a few diesels actually sound ok, like the 2.4 JTD engines in Alfas.

Where can we buy BIO DIESEL!! For Gods sake! Seems to be hard to source!
Its far healthier due to having only trace amounts to zero amounts of sulphur in it
because of this you can then use different exhaust systems that would otherwise be destroyed by the sulphur including better nox traps

can someone list the places in Ireland where you can buy bio diesel
would make a good sticky only it would be pretty empty I guess!

patrickc

Deleted User wrote: »

Where can we buy BIO DIESEL!! For Gods sake! Seems to be hard to source!
Its far healthier due to having only trace amounts to zero amounts of sulphur in it
because of this you can then use different exhaust systems that would otherwise be destroyed by the sulphur including better nox traps

can someone list the places in Ireland where you can buy bio diesel
would make a good sticky only it would be pretty empty I guess!

theres a new station opened in portlaoise

diesel/unleaded 112.9 bio diesel 119.9

diesel for me thanks

Scottie99

ClioV6 wrote: »

1.43 a litre for Diesel yesterday someplace in Carlow...

think it was toughers.

Was passing through Carlow today saw diesel at €1.31 at the Statoil just as you leave Carlow on the Dublin side. Was in Clonmel later in the day, Tesco €1.11. Shocking difference!

niceirishfella

JackieChan wrote: »

Are Topaz a low cost seller? I see they have opened in Portlaoise at 111.9 or 112.9 a litre for diesel. Not sure if these are introductory prices or not.

on what road in Portlaoise is that filling station - I was there today and did'nt spot it?

highlandseoghan

Any one living on the Northside I found a garage Campus in Donabate Co Dublin today which was charging 119.9 for diesel and 115.9 for unleaded.

Shuco

niceirishfella wrote: »

on what road in Portlaoise is that filling station - I was there today and did'nt spot it?

It's a new station on Mountmellick/Tullamore Road at end of ring road. Only opened 2 weeks ago. No harm to see some competition to all of the other stations which seem to have had as high prices as I've seen countrywide for years.

Danno

Feck it - put in the farmers stuff. 75c per litre. If any geezer wants to come down from the customs excise dept then I'll counter sue them for discrimination.

*if* we all used farmers juice in the morning as a national protest, surely we all can't fit in jail can we?

niceirishfella

Danno wrote: »

Feck it - put in the farmers stuff. 75c per litre. If any geezer wants to come down from the customs excise dept then I'll counter sue them for discrimination.

*if* we all used farmers juice in the morning as a national protest, surely we all can't fit in jail can we?

whats the fine for the first offence?

patrickc

Scottie99 wrote: »

Was passing through Carlow today saw diesel at €1.31 at the Statoil just as you leave Carlow on the Dublin side. Was in Clonmel later in the day, Tesco €1.11. Shocking difference!

that statoil is always nearly 10c a litre dearer than anyone else avoid like the plague

niceirishfella wrote: »

on what road in Portlaoise is that filling station - I was there today and did'nt spot it?

the one out the mount mellick road

testicle

patrickc wrote: »

that statoil is always nearly 10c a litre dearer than anyone else

Including the other Statoil about half a mile before it, on the left.

dubtom

Whats annoyed me lately is my local station upping the price of diesel daily for old stock. They got a delivery and where selling for 1.19 for a couple of days,then the price upped to 126 in a couple of days. I asked them what they were at but just got mumbles and staring into the distance. So be it if the price goes up nationally,but I hate being screwed by scummers blatently overpricing.
When I started my present job 7 years ago diesel was 59,no idea why I remember that.

Toon--soldier

JHMEG wrote: »

http://www.catf.us/projects/diesel/dieselhealth/

Diesel kills ~21,000 people a year in the US. That site gives details.

New diesels might be better, plenty of old diesels still around. Both are a lot dirtier than petrol.

If right was right cigarettes and diesel would be illegal.

21,000 out of an estimated 285,000,000 population = .007% not meaning any disrespect to anyone here but like thats not a lot if you consider(not meaning to sound like bob geldof) every 3 seconds someone dies form hunger

E92

"Only" 336 people died on our roads last year(well something like this figure, not exactly sure what it was, so I apologise in advance if I'm wrong).

Since there's 4.2 million people roughly in the country, that means that 0.0008%(or roughly 10 times less than the people who die in the US because of diesel fumes) of the people die because of accidents on our roads.

Are you saying we should do nothing about that too, because "like thats not a lot if you consider every 3 seconds someone dies form hunger"?

And in the US, there's no diesel cars either(and when they do get them they will be actually cleaner than petrols), so you can be sure that it is a much higher percentage here than there, and will get higher and higher still as we all go and buy more diesel cars after July.

JHMEG

E92 wrote: »

so you can be sure that it is a much higher percentage here than there, and will get higher and higher still as we all go and buy more diesel cars after July.

The World Health Organisation put the figure in Europe at 80,000 a year, iirc. Annoying me, as I can't find the link.