How would you improve grassroots football!?

ditpoker

i'm just interested in a non-professional football thread with its moneyz and opinions and ..... so... Irish grassroots football, how do we groom a 2018 World Cup winning side?

_blank_

Well, it's a long road, and won't get us to 2018, that's for sure.

- Look at the gah. (:eek: can't believe I said that) They own land in every single parish in the country, I'm afraid the FAI missed the boat on this one many years ago. The clubs that are there, and I know of only a handful that actually own land in any real sense, need to be integrated into the community in a very real way. The people need to feel like they own the local clubs. New developments need proper green areas and clubhouses to encourage the new residents to join, enjoy and love their club.

- Instead of sending suited buffoons on trips around the world, the FAI needs to re-direct it's funds directly into the grassroots.

- They need to get proper trained coaches into the schoolboy game, not some ranting parent who just wants to see Little Johnny win at all costs. The emphasis needs to be on development of skills and talent, not on winning the U13s Arsehole of Nowhere League Division 4, yeah sure, it might look good on the sideboard when granny comes to visit, but it adds nothing to the game. We need to remove the idea of kicking the skillful player, and allow them to develop. We need to stop "the big lad" "the bruiser" from having a huge influence on schoolboy football.

- Get rid of mp3 players, XBoxs and PlayStations from kids bedrooms. Get them out on the road, fields and back gardens of the country and kicking real footballs again. I can't remember the last time I saw eighteen kids running around a park playing a game of football with a couple of bags as goalposts (romantic Ireland's dead and gone).

- Set up a proper link between Schoolboy football and the senior game in this country. Sporting Fingal have made steps towards this I do believe, and it is to be welcomed.

There's many many more things that could and should be done.

smackbunnybaby

DesF wrote: »

- They need to get proper trained coaches into the schoolboy game, not some ranting parent who just wants to see Little Johnny win at all costs. The emphasis needs to be on development of skills and talent, not on winning the U13s Arsehole of Nowhere League Division 4, yeah sure, it might look good on the sideboard when granny comes to visit, but it adds nothing to the game. We need to remove the idea of kicking the skillful player, and allow them to develop. We need to stop "the big lad" "the bruiser" from having a huge influence on schoolboy football.

This is such an important point. I found in underage soccer it was great until about Under 11s. The better football teams tended to win. then as guys got bigger at about under 12s it turned into bruiser football and lends nothing to the development of a player. it is one of the reasons i gave up football as a young lad.
I read before in Holland competitive football doesnt happen til at least under 14 so as to try and develop youngsters skills.

prendy

DesF wrote: »

- Get rid of mp3 players, XBoxs and PlayStations from kids bedrooms. Get them out on the road, fields and back gardens of the country and kicking real footballs again. I can't remember the last time I saw eighteen kids running around a park playing a game of football with a couple of bags as goalposts (romantic Ireland's dead and gone).

+1 Des

When i was a young lad(not that long ago) me and "the lads" played football every evening as long as there was daylight...these games went on for hours...you dont see this anymore.
in my area i cant remember the last time i saw a group of lads playing ball.

ditpoker

DesF wrote:

- They need to get proper trained coaches into the schoolboy game, not some ranting parent who just wants to see Little Johnny win at all costs. The emphasis needs to be on development of skills and talent, not on winning the U13s Arsehole of Nowhere League Division 4, yeah sure, it might look good on the sideboard when granny comes to visit, but it adds nothing to the game. We need to remove the idea of kicking the skillful player, and allow them to develop. We need to stop "the big lad" "the bruiser" from having a huge influence on schoolboy football.

I agree with this hugely. At u8-u11 i was somewhat of a child prodigy scoring goals for fun at the highest level, but i was big and tall so at u-12 i went from being the goalscoring striker to the big centre back, not by choice, but because i was the tallest player. then our talented midfielder got bigger, and we formed a defensive partnership, we were great at winning every header and pumping the ball long and winning tackles, but our skill level dropped off significantly.

DesF wrote:

- Get rid of mp3 players, XBoxs and PlayStations from kids bedrooms. Get them out on the road, fields and back gardens of the country and kicking real footballs again. I can't remember the last time I saw eighteen kids running around a park playing a game of football with a couple of bags as goalposts (romantic Ireland's dead and gone).

easier said than done but what a difference it would make!
on this note one of the main reasons i think u see less and less kids out playing is that for some inexplicable reason once the sun comes out the council and parks decide that is when they need to regrow goalmouths and such and take goalposts out of the ground and make alot of pitches unplayable as a result. would summer seasons be of benefit. afterall most of the matches are rained off in the winter anyway, and the eircom league has gone to the summer season. why doesnt schoolboy/amateur game follow?

smackbunnybaby

ditpoker wrote: »

why doesnt schoolboy/amateur game follow?

i mentioned this to an under age coach before and he said it was because families go on holidays during the summer and you could be missing loads of players for a game. you mightnt even be able to field a team.

gucci

smackbunnybaby wrote: »

i mentioned this to an under age coach before and he said it was because families go on holidays during the summer and you could be missing loads of players for a game. you mightnt even be able to field a team.

Yeah and also any lads (or girls ) that play GAA will be missing games or forced to make the choice between which team to play on the same day or whatever.

_blank_

ditpoker wrote: »

I agree with this hugely. At u8-u11 i was somewhat of a child prodigy

esteban, I thought you were banned :pac:

Xavi6

DesF wrote: »

esteban, I thought you were banned :pac:

ROFL!

The main thing for me is to keep kids interested. My schoolboy team had about 5 under 12s teams in various leagues yet by the time we reached 18s we could barely field an XI on a Sunday.

BaZmO*

DesF wrote: »

We need to remove the idea of kicking the skillful player, and allow them to develop. We need to stop "the big lad" "the bruiser" from having a huge influence on schoolboy football.

But isn't the reason for that because that's what the English game demands and generally for most kids playing football in Ireland their ultimate goal is to play in the Premiership. How many times have you heard a 15 or 16, regardless of his skill level, told that the needs to bulk up if he wants to make it a high level.

event

as des said, its the way they are coached

u-15 and below should be non competitive. no one can win anything, its only for the game itself. Every sub should have to get at least 15 minutes of playing time. No player can be on the bench for more than 1 game in a row.

Its all about the phyique now, how big a lad is wiht the big boot up pitch.

parents need to be educated now, how many adults have you seen screaming when a kid loses the ball, calling him greedy and to pass it. its an issue in ireland and england too. I have always looked at the way joe cole was treated/developed. in england he was always called too fancy, a showman and they didnt find a place from him in most teams. In spain, france, italy, portugal, a team would have been built around him and he would have been given a central role.

tbh i dont think it ever will and i think it is sorta related to gaelic. Most people play both growing up and in gaelic as a kid being bigger helps, so it translates over to soccer that it must too.

_blank_

event wrote: »

tbh i dont think it ever will and i think it is sorta related to gaelic. Most people play both growing up and in gaelic as a kid being bigger helps, so it translates over to soccer that it must too.

I also blame gah.

For everything wrong with society.

Burn 'em. Burn 'em all.

chopperbyrne

I think you have to look at American sports to see how successful grassroots can be done.

Sports is a huge part of every community and people turn up in their hundreds to watch the local school team play.

The best secondary school children go on to play in college, with the best of them going on to play in their national professional leagues.

If the FAI did something like this with all the LOI clubs getting a draught pick of the top college leavers, the standard of football in Ireland throughout the country would improve drastically.

_blank_

chopperbyrne wrote: »

If the FAI did something like this with all the LOI clubs getting a draught pick of the top college leavers, the standard of football in Ireland throughout the country would improve drastically.

Heh, the best college team in the country plays in the Premier Division already, UCD.

And yes, they are continually letting players go to other LoI clubs, and beyond. They are great for developing young players. Top class facilities, it's why they are in the Premier, light years ahead of many other clubs in terms of facilities, training etc.

Bohs has some kind of link up with DCU, although I'm unsure as to the extent of it tbh.

chopperbyrne

Okay, but I'm suggesting the UCD shouldn't be in a professional league.

They should be part of a college league.

Unless you're a fan of American sports, it's hard to understand how well it works.

KdjaCL

Xbox Ps3s and mp3 payers give parents comfort in knowing where their kids are, years ago you could go missing for hours as a kid, now the police are called after an hour and paedo alert is on. Different times....


There are quality trained coaches at all levels just the better clubs have full time coaches.

I hate these threads always an opinion by someone who knows nothing of about an u8 DDSL league but has opinions on how to improve it.


Normal procedure for a 5 year old in some of the bigger clubs (please point out what should be improved in this)

4/5 years of age, training touch and control no games but kids with balls at their feet running around twice a week learning how to control a ball and kick it.
6 years of age, another year of touch and control, some futsal leagues for kids to play under 7, futsal is indoor games with a heavier size 4 ball. Again scores never kept wins never recorded its glorified training matches set up in leagues.
7 years of age, game one 7 a side with size 4 ball during nice weather months, 5 a side during the winter indoor futsal leagues.
8 years of age same as above, at this stage the kids are players better than me FFS!
9 years of age depending on league they go to 9 a side or 11 a side, positions are brought into.

10/11 11 a sides big pitches positions.

12 a side the best players taken by Crumlin Francis Cherry Orchard etc, the not so great give up football or play for their schools.

Any kid who has done the 5 years is a decent player where they go next is the problem, Crumlin would take up to 40 players and only play 22 or so the others dont learn anymore as they only part of a catch inw hich the club hopes to sell one to England.

All in this is the structures and coaching courses by the DDSL SDSL ,NDSL(dublin only, dunno about not dublin), all the badages obtained are part of the UEFA coaching course so a coach who does each course in the 5 years will have his UEFA B badge and can get the Boro job.

Please someone point out where this isnt working? For a nation of 5 million to create footballers.


kdjac

ditpoker

KdjaCL wrote: »

Xbox Ps3s and mp3 payers give parents comfort in knowing where their kids are, years ago you could go missing for hours as a kid, now the police are called after an hour and paedo alert is on. Different times....


There are quality trained coaches at all levels just the better clubs have full time coaches.

I hate these threads always an opinion by someone who knows nothing of about an u8 DDSL league but has opinions on how to improve it.


Normal procedure for a 5 year old in some of the bigger clubs (please point out what should be improved in this)

4/5 years of age, training touch and control no games but kids with balls at their feet running around twice a week learning how to control a ball and kick it.
6 years of age, another year of touch and control, some futsal leagues for kids to play under 7, futsal is indoor games with a heavier size 4 ball. Again scores never kept wins never recorded its glorified training matches set up in leagues.
7 years of age, game one 7 a side with size 4 ball during nice weather months, 5 a side during the winter indoor futsal leagues.
8 years of age same as above, at this stage the kids are players better than me FFS!
9 years of age depending on league they go to 9 a side or 11 a side, positions are brought into.

10/11 11 a sides big pitches positions.

12 a side the best players taken by Crumlin Francis Cherry Orchard etc, the not so great give up football or play for their schools.

Any kid who has done the 5 years is a decent player where they go next is the problem, Crumlin would take up to 40 players and only play 22 or so the others dont learn anymore as they only part of a catch inw hich the club hopes to sell one to England.
All in this is the structures and coaching courses by the DDSL SDSL ,NDSL(dublin only, dunno about not dublin), all the badages obtained are part of the UEFA coaching course so a coach who does each course in the 5 years will have his UEFA B badge and can get the Boro job.

Please someone point out where this isnt working? For a nation of 5 million to create footballers.


kdjac

10 year olds playing 11-a-side matches on a full pitch is what leads to sticking the big lad at the back to bang it long. I hadn't thought before about not playing competitive football until u-14, but to be fair its a great idea. or at least one with some serious merits. kids (i.e. 10-12) are to small, to slow, and lack the power to play a full pitch. its madness. even keep competitive football away until the teens.

Also, teams like cherry orchard taking 22 players into a squad is madness, you can field 11, and play 14, so any week 8 lads (usually the same 8 lads) will get zero football, and thats 8 lads who are obviously very good if cherry orchard wanted them. They should cap squads at 16 firstly.

ibh

A Spanish friend of mine told me they only started playing 11 a side when they got to U14's. Previous to that they played on small pitches with smallish goals and worked on technique, e.g. going past players and short passing. Positions were interchangable for the most part and sunstitutions were not permanent.

He came to Ireland and played on the Queens University team with me. He was a class above everyone else and was top-scorer from Midfield. However not a single semi-pro or pro club approached him. I think this shows that most clubs don't go looking for 22-23 year olds at college, wheras i think they are the ideal people to look for.

I think a system where players are allowed develop their skills will see them continue to play through their teens and beyond.

PHB

I like the United approach at 10-11 that instead of playing on big pitchs, continue to play 6 asides in order to develop technical skill.
Aside from that, Ireland do extremely well creating the number of quality footballers for the number of people involved.

I think the only real quality changes we can make are minor and technical beyond our recognition, but I'd say Brady will get involved, and also I think that the best thing that could happen for grassroots in this country is a stronger Eircom League.

Also the focus must be on getting kids into soccer from an early age, as they are in direct competition with the GAA and Rugby.

Also I'm not entirely sure how this works currently, but I think that the eircom league clubs should take over youth development from the age of 12 upwards. I think if you create a significant cash incentive to do it, they will plough money into it.

Look at it this way. Dublin is the size of Liverpool, the size of Manchester. Yet Dublin hasn't produced a player of the highest quality (like say Giggs, Beckham, Scholes, Gerrard, Owen, Rooney) in quite some time. There is something wrong. What that is, I don't know.

_blank_

PHB wrote: »

Also I'm not entirely sure how this works currently, but I think that the eircom league clubs should take over youth development from the age of 12 upwards. I think if you create a significant cash incentive to do it, they will plough money into it.

Shelbourne have a full Underage set-up in place, and have had it for a good few years now.

It's really decent too.

The problem is, PHB, that the "traditional" strongholds of Schoolboy football around Dublin. Stella Maris, Belvo etc have and want nothing to do with the eL, they much prefer to sell their players on to English sides for cash.

ibh

DesF wrote: »

Shelbourne have a full Underage set-up in place, and have had it for a good few years now.

It's really decent too.

The problem is, PHB, that the "traditional" strongholds of Schoolboy football around Dublin. Stella Maris, Belvo etc have and want nothing to do with the eL, they much prefer to sell their players on to English sides for cash.

Maybe you disagree but i get the impression that the EL clubs that try to develop players from U-12s upwards are concentrating on too small a group. What happens to the late developer that only comes into their own at 15 or 16? Personally i would prefer that these clubs (Shels, Bohs etc) leave the players with their smaller clubs for as long as possible instead of streamlining them. They would need to keep a very close eye on all the teams then and possibly offer training to all the local tems rather than just a select few players.

Then when they get to U-16's they can start to take the outstanding players and develop them further.
Prob wouldn't work though as the English scouts would nip in somewhere along the line and grab the best potential star.

I do enjoy the fact that many teams in the EL do play attractive football now. It was for a long time a league that wasn't very easy on the eye. I would hope in years to come that will be the ethos that these teams pass on to their younger players.

_blank_

ibh wrote: »

Maybe you disagree but i get the impression that the EL clubs that try to develop players from U-12s upwards are concentrating on too small a group. What happens to the late developer that only comes into their own at 15 or 16? Personally i would prefer that these clubs (Shels, Bohs etc) leave the players with their smaller clubs for as long as possible instead of streamlining them. They would need to keep a very close eye on all the teams then and possibly offer training to all the local tems rather than just a select few players.

Then when they get to U-16's they can start to take the outstanding players and develop them further.
Prob wouldn't work though as the English scouts would nip in somewhere along the line and grab the best potential star.
.

I don't disagree with you, in fact I do believe this is what Sporting Fingal are doing. Creating ties with all of the Schoolboy teams around Swords, Donabate, Skerries, Rush, The Naul and wherever else is in their catchment area. Well, when I say "all" the clubs, I of course mean all have been invited, some obvioulsy will already have ties with LSL sides.

Shelbourne, on the other hand, have gone a different route, and are in the same competitions as the other Schoolboy clubs.

Another problem here too. The LSL sides (and equivalent in other parts of the country) are also "suspicious" of the eL sides.

KdjaCL

ditpoker wrote: »

Also, teams like cherry orchard taking 22 players into a squad is madness, you can field 11, and play 14, so any week 8 lads (usually the same 8 lads) will get zero football, and thats 8 lads who are obviously very good if cherry orchard wanted them. They should cap squads at 16 firstly.

U14 is a good idea but the vultures cant sell them to.....see reply to PHBs post.

PHB wrote: »

Look at it this way. Dublin is the size of Liverpool, the size of Manchester. Yet Dublin hasn't produced a player of the highest quality (like say Giggs, Beckham, Scholes, Gerrard, Owen, Rooney) in quite some time. There is something wrong. What that is, I don't know.

United have a great academy but how many of those players played from u7 to u15 with Utd pool? Stealing other teams players isnt really coaching is it? How can Crumlin sel the next Keane or Orchard sell the next willo flood if they not playing competivley at 13 or 14?


Desf shels do have a decent setup but i have to wonder why Fenlon refs their games biased much ?


kdjac

stovelid

DesF wrote: »

We need to stop "the big lad" "the bruiser" from having a huge influence on schoolboy football.

Laughed at this cos it's true.

Also, I know it's probably not enforceable, but it would be great to find a way of stopping kids heading over to England in their droves; being dumped in limbo for a few years, and then shipped back with the confidence in bits.

ditpoker

KdjaCL wrote: »

U14 is a good idea but the vultures cant sell them to.....see reply to PHBs post.


United have a great academy but how many of those players played from u7 to u15 with Utd pool? Stealing other teams players isnt really coaching is it? How can Crumlin sel the next Keane or Orchard sell the next willo flood if they not playing competivley at 13 or 14?

if the dutch/spanish can operate with no competition til age 13-14 why cant we do it? how do they operate it their end?

would it be feasible for the FAI to make significant changes to the under-age set up or do the clubs have too much power now? could the fai, for example, say "starting with kids who are 5years or under as of Jan 1st 2009 there will be no competitive football until they are aged 13, i.e under-14's. clubs are encouraged to develop training/development programmes that include new players and train the elite players."

when i was 9 i played full pitch, and at some point between then and now someone made a decision so that the younger teams played 7-a-side, so why cant we do that again!?

_blank_

KdjaCL wrote: »

Desf shels do have a decent setup but i have to wonder why Fenlon refs their games biased much ?

Heh, why would a Shamrock obsessed Bohs manager, who was screwed for wages by Shels be biased for us?

stovelid wrote: »

Also, I know it's probably not enforceable, but it would be great to find a way of stopping kids heading over to England in their droves; being dumped in limbo for a few years, and then shipped back with the confidence in bits.

Best way to do this is make the eL attractive for youngsters to aspire to.

Too many stories of decent young players going over to the mainland, getting told they aren't good enough then coming back to work in factories, not playing ball and getting fat drinking.

For the amount of players coming back, there is a very low number actually playing at any kind of "decent" level here.

ditpoker wrote: »

when i was 9 i played full pitch, and at some point between then and now someone made a decision so that the younger teams played 7-a-side, so why cant we do that again!?

I reffed at the 7-a-side level for a couple of years (and higher) and it's a great set-up, in fairness.

Apart from the Soccer Moms screeching on the sidelines.

Hot though.

event

KdjaCL wrote: »

How can Crumlin sel the next Keane or Orchard sell the next willo flood if they not playing competivley at 13 or 14?

therein lies one of the problems.

that should be at their thoughts.

i know it is, and its a fact of life that they need money to survive, but it shouldnt.

KdjaCL

event wrote: »

therein lies one of the problems.

that should be at their thoughts.

i know it is, and its a fact of life that they need money to survive, but it shouldnt.

They dont need the money, they just want more.

http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2994

That would be this years best youth teams.


kdjac

Call Me Jimmy

DesF wrote: »

- Get rid of mp3 players, XBoxs and PlayStations from kids bedrooms. Get them out on the road, fields and back gardens of the country and kicking real footballs again. I can't remember the last time I saw eighteen kids running around a park playing a game of football with a couple of bags as goalposts (romantic Ireland's dead and gone).

Great point. In the new estate across from me there's a lovely green area, I honestly can't remember ever seeing kids on it playing football! When I was a lad (:P) all I did was play football, I mean all day every day - and ye'd always see the green full of kids, ye wudn't have to arrange a game, just run over and there'd be a game going on ye could join.

micks

KdjaCL wrote: »

Xbox Ps3s and mp3 payers give parents comfort in knowing where their kids are, years ago you could go missing for hours as a kid, now the police are called after an hour and paedo alert is on. Different times....


There are quality trained coaches at all levels just the better clubs have full time coaches.

I hate these threads always an opinion by someone who knows nothing of about an u8 DDSL league but has opinions on how to improve it.


Normal procedure for a 5 year old in some of the bigger clubs (please point out what should be improved in this)

4/5 years of age, training touch and control no games but kids with balls at their feet running around twice a week learning how to control a ball and kick it.
6 years of age, another year of touch and control, some futsal leagues for kids to play under 7, futsal is indoor games with a heavier size 4 ball. Again scores never kept wins never recorded its glorified training matches set up in leagues.
7 years of age, game one 7 a side with size 4 ball during nice weather months, 5 a side during the winter indoor futsal leagues.
8 years of age same as above, at this stage the kids are players better than me FFS!
9 years of age depending on league they go to 9 a side or 11 a side, positions are brought into.

10/11 11 a sides big pitches positions.

12 a side the best players taken by Crumlin Francis Cherry Orchard etc, the not so great give up football or play for their schools.

Any kid who has done the 5 years is a decent player where they go next is the problem, Crumlin would take up to 40 players and only play 22 or so the others dont learn anymore as they only part of a catch inw hich the club hopes to sell one to England.

All in this is the structures and coaching courses by the DDSL SDSL ,NDSL(dublin only, dunno about not dublin), all the badages obtained are part of the UEFA coaching course so a coach who does each course in the 5 years will have his UEFA B badge and can get the Boro job.

Please someone point out where this isnt working? For a nation of 5 million to create footballers.


kdjac

Pretty much as it is especially the last line or 2!
Personally I think particularly in Dublin grassroots/schoolboy football is thriving
someone compared liverpool/manchester size wise to Dublin - well neither has a schoolboy league that can compare to the DDSL for standard.
Even the likes of the SDFL which for years was the poorer cousin of the DDSL is making huge strides with their emerging talent programme.

Someone said the EL clubs are being over looked in favour of the likes of cherry orchard - IMO its the EL clubs lack of youth set ups historically that are now impeding them . I'm not aware of any EL club that had a top level schoolboy set up 15 years ago ?
No they are playing catch up and very much second place to the crumlin/orchard's of the world. Its all well that they are in the youth semi's but in reality most of these top level clubs effectively finish caring at U16 when most are gone to England if they're to make it.
Most lads playing U17 will be 18 before the end of their season and obivously 19 playing U 18 which leads to many even U17 players ending up playing LSL or equivalent - my point is the standard above U16 pales in comparison to U16.
The FAI are often slagged off but in fairness they have made great strides in recent years with volunteer education and the likes of the Regional development centres which will in time boost football further.
Outside Dublin some of the facilities are FANTASTIC eg Salthill,Tullamore etc
In time with the coaching structures these clubs have put in place will go a long way to providing Ireland with quality players.

another point made was non competitive games - well they're supposed to be in place up to U10 or U11 or something like that - but in reality it will be always competitive I recently witnessed an ex Pats manager - managing an U8 team in the DDSL Futsal tournie to everyone's amazement Ole'ing etc as his kids hammered their 8 yr old opposition !
There are some clubs with that win at all costs attitude but there are some smashing well run clubs with top facilities that will come thru in the end.
I'd love to see the FAI in future make it compulsory to hold a kick start 1 & 2 to manage a kids team and even bear the cost to encourage this after a few years the benefit would far out weigh the cost!
But overall the strides made in coaching over the past few years are huge there are very few clubs with out some form of qualified coach present

KdjaCL

micks wrote: »

Pretty much as it is especially the last line or 2!
Personally I think particularly in Dublin grassroots/schoolboy football is thriving
someone compared liverpool/manchester size wise to Dublin - well neither has a schoolboy league that can compare to the DDSL for standard.
Even the likes of the SDFL which for years was the poorer cousin of the DDSL is making huge strides with their emerging talent programme.

Someone said the EL clubs are being over looked in favour of the likes of cherry orchard - IMO its the EL clubs lack of youth set ups historically that are now impeding them . I'm not aware of any EL club that had a top level schoolboy set up 15 years ago ?
No they are playing catch up and very much second place to the crumlin/orchard's of the world. Its all well that they are in the youth semi's but in reality most of these top level clubs effectively finish caring at U16 when most are gone to England if they're to make it.
Most lads playing U17 will be 18 before the end of their season and obivously 19 playing U 18 which leads to many even U17 players ending up playing LSL or equivalent - my point is the standard above U16 pales in comparison to U16.
The FAI are often slagged off but in fairness they have made great strides in recent years with volunteer education and the likes of the Regional development centres which will in time boost football further.
Outside Dublin some of the facilities are FANTASTIC eg Salthill,Tullamore etc
In time with the coaching structures these clubs have put in place will go a long way to providing Ireland with quality players.

another point made was non competitive games - well they're supposed to be in place up to U10 or U11 or something like that - but in reality it will be always competitive I recently witnessed an ex Pats manager - managing an U8 team in the DDSL Futsal tournie to everyone's amazement Ole'ing etc as his kids hammered their 8 yr old opposition !
There are some clubs with that win at all costs attitude but there are some smashing well run clubs with top facilities that will come thru in the end.
I'd love to see the FAI in future make it compulsory to hold a kick start 1 & 2 to manage a kids team and even bear the cost to encourage this after a few years the benefit would far out weigh the cost!
But overall the strides made in coaching over the past few years are huge there are very few clubs with out some form of qualified coach present

Excellent post tbh


Kick start 1 ftw

kdjac

Mad_Max

DesF wrote: »

Heh, the best college team in the country plays in the Premier Division already, UCD.

And yes, they are continually letting players go to other LoI clubs, and beyond. They are great for developing young players. Top class facilities, it's why they are in the Premier, light years ahead of many other clubs in terms of facilities, training etc.

Bohs has some kind of link up with DCU, although I'm unsure as to the extent of it tbh.

UCD are in a college league seperate to the eircom league and the college league doesn't allow players from professional leagues to play. and btw they aren;t the best college team around, the northern teams are.

Bohs do have a link with DCU but it is with DCU sport and not the football in anyway. In DCU there is also a college team and LSL teams but they get very very little from DCU Sport (Another example of politics interfering) although they do have a full time professional coach!!

Colleges are trying to get more involved in attracting younger players with scholarships etc. DCU handed out 3 this year for the first time and have had lots of applicants for next year. I know UCD also run succesful scholarships too. Its a step in the right direction.

Having played with nearly all the big underage teams (Shels, stella, rovers, pats, kevins and joeys) I honestly think the coaching levels are very sub standard at these clubs, more so than others!!!

These clubs are purely in results business at that age already! When i was with rovers they had one of the top coaches in the country and in a few months with him my game grew tremendously but his team played "too much football" and the club hierachy brought in an up'n under coach. We won a few games 1-0 but played no football and got no coaching!.

On the other side I played with Ballyfermot for a season and the club brought in a young coach and we trained 3 times a week, work on technical aspects and played some fantastic football. We didn't always win but all our games improved.

The point being that the clubs themselves are the main reason imo and the idea of removing competition at younger ages would be brilliant i think.

In terms of what the FAI can do, i'd love to see them invest in some more developments on the scale of the AUL. If the FAI could get on board with a local council (Take finglas for example) and built a campus for football with big facilities then nearly all the local teams could be housed in a good set of facilities, rather than kids playing in horse fields with broken glass, pot holes and changing on the sideline!! A simple facility like this would help keep kids interested imo.

KdjaCL

Mad_Max wrote: »

In terms of what the FAI can do, i'd love to see them invest in some more developments on the scale of the AUL. If the FAI could get on board with a local council (Take finglas for example) and built a campus for football with big facilities then nearly all the local teams could be housed in a good set of facilities, rather than kids playing in horse fields with broken glass, pot holes and changing on the sideline!! A simple facility like this would help keep kids interested imo.

Difficult that but i do recal some old guy saying to me years ago that if we(FAI) got the pheonix park or part of it as a centre of excellence where pitches are ehh pitches and not quad bike obstacle courses, it would be the simplest and easiest place to have a centre in the entire DDSL area.

oddly the best ideas here are coming from people with interest/experience of the "grassroots" of ireland.

And tbh most of it is good!


kdjac

Mad_Max

agreed the phoenix park would be excellent in terms of location. That would simply never happen though!

Again you're prob right that the idea of FAI and councils working together probably wouldnt happen either. Its a shame though. Councils constantly spout on about wanting to provide facilities, as does the FAI. If the council just provided some land, and they shared the cost it would be do-able.

Unfortunately clubs who have their own land are able to sell up to developers and get good facilities built for them (e.g. Tullamore) whereas clubs who rely on council land are screwed with shabby pitches and/or no clubhouse.

Was out at peamount utd's facilites on Sunday and they are fantastic and it really is the way to go forward. I hear they are coaching the kids properly at a young age, i know several of their underage coaches have uefa b licenses and thats where we need to get too!

DCU is looking into starting an academy also which if can get off the ground will provide a great centre for coaching in the northside area.

micks

Mad_Max wrote: »

In terms of what the FAI can do, i'd love to see them invest in some more developments on the scale of the AUL. If the FAI could get on board with a local council (Take finglas for example) and built a campus for football with big facilities then nearly all the local teams could be housed in a good set of facilities, rather than kids playing in horse fields with broken glass, pot holes and changing on the sideline!! A simple facility like this would help keep kids interested imo.

Its apparently in the pipeline for Abbotstown.

Mad_Max wrote: »

Was out at peamount utd's facilites on Sunday and they are fantastic and it really is the way to go forward. I hear they are coaching the kids properly at a young age, i know several of their underage coaches have uefa b licenses and thats where we need to get too!

Ditto!
Fantastic set up - dont think there is many EL clubs that could match their training facilities!

Mad_Max

I think it's another area of our game in this country that gets over looked (even within the grassroots debate), the junior/intermediate aspect.

There's no point developing a sound underage setup if there's no natural progression for players that dont quite make professionals. Take america for example, they have AMAZING underage setups all across the country but have little or no intermediate leagues for guys around 20-25 who havent made it. It can be a reason why kids give up at 16/17 as they believe their "chance" has gone.

Ok here we have good, full, leagues (LSL,AUL) but I think they get somewhat overlooked by the powers that be. There are some seriously talented players floating around these leagues that for one reason or another just didnt get the chance at a higher level.

I know the FAI have the amateur Ireland side but its a little know fact outside of the actual amateur leagues. I think they could do more to promote the potential still to be had by continuing into the amateur leagues.

Galvasean

Heres my plan, we'll all go over to Brazil, use our Irish charm to impregnate their women, then a generation from now we take back all the kids on the grandad rule.

BaZmO*

Galvasean wrote: »

Heres my plan, we'll all go over to Brazil, use our Irish charm to impregnate their women, then a generation from now we take back all the kids on the grandad rule.

Or we could just head over to Gort, wouldn't cost as much.

Big Ears

Just to point out one little flaw in the Dutch/Spanish no competitive football till U14 . Although other sports are popular in those countries they have nothing like GAA/Rugby that 'competes' with football .

Now plenty of young people would play soccer/football/hurling/rugby whatever till at least their mid to late teens before concentrating on one or two .

However if GAA/Rugby is offering competitive games to young people and football isn't then there is a greater chance of people just giving up football .
It is often the competitive element which helps keep them interested and while in Holland/Spain they don't get bored as football is all there is, over here many might just say what's the point if they can't even get to play matches .

There is the problem with many clubs where there's a squad of (eg) 22 and the same 11 and 3 subs are used the whole time so 8 people routinely don't get a game and the simple way to fix this is clubs should look for more friendly games with clubs who have similar problems .