Broadband Cap Poll

JohnC.

Yes, but i've never been charged

Cabaal wrote: »

yes you can, itunes, bittorrent.com but both of them and other services can only be used in the states, what services are you referring to that can be used legally in Ireland?

Xbox Live. I see HD movies on there up to about 7GB. Also original Xbox games up to 6 GB and game demos can be 1 or 2 GB these days. Occasionally even more.

smellslikeshoes

Yes, and i've been charged/warned for going over my cap

dunworth1 wrote: »

why do they have caps there only putting people off getting broadband
its a waist of time

IBB NO CAP

WELL DONE TO THE COMPANIES THAT HAVE NO CAPS THEY CARE ABOUT THERE CUSTOMERS

Just because a company doesn't have an outlined cap doesn't make them any better. The Ambiguity of a fair use policy can be just as bad as companies who have a cap (which most don't enforce). The company with a fair use policy can basically decide what their cap is when it suits them. If in your case IBB suddenly decided that 5GB was as much as they wanted people to use on their unlimited service they would be fully within their rights to cut you off after 5GB while still calling it unlimited.

Nehaxak

I'm still on a 56k modem and like paying by the minute

IBB Breeze fixed wireless, 3MB, NO CAP ! So couldn't really choose an option from the poll to vote.

As for the comment on fair usage policy and that they could suddenly impose restrictions, that might be true (and would typically be a sentence quoted to me in the past from other Irish providers who do have a cap and are trying to explain what I would see as absolute unfair practice) but I've yet to see the FUP be imposed in such a way by IBB at least.

Marlow

Freddie59 wrote: »

Can someone explain how you could even download 40GB in a month - if you're obeying the law?

Just use Steam. It'll kill your cap in no time.

Airwire has no cap and no .. there's no fair policy statement either.

Where's the option for "I have no cap !!", please ?

Kind regards,
Martin List-Petersen
Airwire

PogMoThoin

Yes, and i've been charged/warned for going over my cap

As You can see from my stats, its very easy go over your cap,



I got a 6Gb game midway through the month run at night, Stumble Upon, the youngsters lookin at Youtube, all just casual usage. All torrents run at night only. Always at least one pc in the house on the go.

exiztone

I don't go over my cap (BT's 30GB), but I always have to watch myself. I think it would be fair for Esat to upgrade the 30GB cap to 80GB for their new 8Mb service!

Steffano2002

I'm still on a 56k modem and like paying by the minute

Never went over my Magnet cap (100GB I believe it was) but now I have NTL (5 people in the house, 7 computers) and every month NTL sends us a letter saying we are going over our cap... Never been charged anything mind you!

Steffano2002

I'm still on a 56k modem and like paying by the minute

PogMoThoin wrote: »

As You can see from my stats, its very easy go over your cap,



I got a 6Gb game midway through the month run at night, Stumble Upon, the youngsters lookin at Youtube, all just casual usage. All torrents run at night only. Always at least one pc in the house on the go.

Is there such a utility for NTL subscribers actually?

mrplop

Cabaal wrote: »

yes you can, itunes, bittorrent.com but both of them and other services can only be used in the states, what services are you referring to that can be used legally in Ireland?

American Itunes vouchers work here.

2Shae

Yes, and i've been charged/warned for going over my cap

my cap 10gb, last month i did 82gb, month before 75gb, roughly on sinced i joined eircom bb in june last year, ive been doing 7 to 8 times my cap every month and ive never had a call, email, warning or overcharge.

It depends on your area i was told once when i called eircom, if alot of people on your exchange are downloading over their limit they will send out warnings or charge extra, the exchanges can only handle so much was her responce.

Praetor

People dont seem to understand the importance of a CAP. It prevents people from overusing a service and affecting others.

Now, dont wanna hear people saying that IBB has no caps or that Smart has no caps, of course they dont, IBB will offer unlimited download knowing that, at the moment, they cannot compeete on download speeds and Smart, well, they barely have customers! Lucky you if you are one of their them! Why do you think they promote no contention policy..

Big companies like Eircom or BT need to enforce CAPs. BT is actually way ahead of Eircom in what regards to international traffic and that its going to cost us all.

If you want no caps go for a business account or if you are lucky try with Smart or similar companies. Otherwise, if people dont moderate their usage we will all end up paying for it.


The problem is not when you exceed your limit by 10 gb or 20gb or even 30gb, there are people exceeding their usage on more than 100 gb and up to 700 gb per month.

Sure that, in an ideal world there should be no caps, but we have to deal with what we have and, at the moment, usage must be monitored and controlled, overusing it will pay up.

Marlow

Praetor wrote: »

Big companies like Eircom or BT need to enforce CAPs. BT is actually way ahead of Eircom in what regards to international traffic and that its going to cost us all.

Companies like Eircom and BT double-cap you: first on contention and then a cap on top of it !!

The contention tells already, how much they oversubscribe the bandwidth available and that's the difference between business and residential accounts.

If they cap you on top of that, it's rip off. It's either to get rid of "unwanted" users or to be able to charge you extra, when it fits'em.

/Martin

PogMoThoin

Yes, and i've been charged/warned for going over my cap

Other countrys like France, Germany & Sweden have providers that offer symmetrical broadband and no caps.
I don't believe there should be a cap. You pay for the bandwidth, why cant they give it to You. Why being Irish do we always have to lag behind and get ripped off,

Bohrio

Marlow wrote: »

Companies like Eircom and BT double-cap you: first on contention and then a cap on top of it !!

The only way to prevent contention is to cap people.

So you are basically contradicting yourself.

If Eircom you have contention issues is mainly for two reasons, exceeding the amount of customers that the exchange can handle (could happend but rarely) and usage abusers.

As I have said many time, if you download 30 gb per days basically you are using 40% of the total bandwith 24/7, and the people sharing your line will call complaining of contention, if you are restricted then that 40% its gone and people will start enjoying a good service.

Bohrio

PogMoThoin wrote: »

Other countrys like France, Germany & Sweden have providers that offer symmetrical broadband and no caps.
I don't believe there should be a cap. You pay for the bandwidth, why cant they give it to You. Why being Irish do we always have to lag behind and get ripped off,

Lets be real, they are way ahead of us. As it has been said this is what we have and there is nothing we can do about it. If you want to compare Sweeden users can enjoy speeds of over 60 mbps, same as japan and other countries. In fact, not long ago I saw a guy in sweeden with a connection over 20 gb

I dont see anyone complaining of Eircom/BT/UTV/Smart being slow just because a friend of yours in japan is getting 120 mbps... we know what we can get and we accept it. We all know that eircom and bt can offer speeds up to 24mb and we know they will offer it when they feel ready or that its necessary, its all marketing and we accept it.

Its just a matter of time, and remember you can get a 1:1 contention package if you want to, business package for ex.

Marlow

Bohrio wrote: »

The only way to prevent contention is to cap people.

So you are basically contradicting yourself.

Actually, I'm not !!

On the basic eircom package you've got 1 mbit/128 kbit, which is rate adaptive (might be slower, if you're further from the exchange), has a 48:1 contention AND a 10 GB cap for download/1 GB cap for upload.

The rate adaptive-ness, fair enuff. But beyond that, either it should be uncontended and then they could apply the CAP OR they can contend it and then there should be no CAP.

By applying all of these, they are basically selling you neither speed nor bandwidth. That's nearly as bad as a fair policy deal.

/Martin

Bohrio

Marlow wrote: »

Actually, I'm not !!

On the basic eircom package you've got 1 mbit/128 kbit, which is rate adaptive (might be slower, if you're further from the exchange), has a 48:1 contention AND a 10 GB cap for download/1 GB cap for upload.

The rate adaptive-ness, fair enuff. But beyond that, either it should be uncontended and then they could apply the CAP OR they can contend it and then there should be no CAP.

By applying all of these, they are basically selling you neither speed nor bandwidth. That's nearly as bad as a fair policy deal.

/Martin

You dont seem to understand. 48:1 means that your line is share with another 47 users (max).

Using 80% that 1mb bandwidth (which is possible) at a transfer rate of 80 kBps you will have a monthly usage of ~207 GB.

to go below your cap your average transfer rate should be ~4 kBps

So there you go! You get what you are paying for. Go for a business pacakage 1:1 or 10:1 contention. Also, Eircom business starter package if I remember correctly, although it has the same contention it offers no cap.

By not moderating your usage you are affecting all other customers.

What we all want, no caps, no contention, its at the moment, not possible.

Not in Ireland

Marlow

Bohrio wrote: »

You dont seem to understand. 48:1 means that your line is share with another 47 users (max).

Using 80% that 1mb bandwidth (which is possible) at a transfer rate of 80 kBps you will have a monthly usage of ~207 GB.

to go below your cap your average transfer rate should be ~4 kBps

So there you go! You get what you are paying for.

I exactly understand. It's RIP off. Just to mention it to you, I'm running an ISP myself and I know exactly what I'm talking about.

Bohrio wrote: »

Go for a business pacakage 1:1 or 10:1 contention. Also, Eircom business starter package if I remember correctly, although it has the same contention it offers no cap.

Eircom Business is 24:1 contention, which is still a joke.

Bohrio wrote: »

By not moderating your usage you are affecting all other customers.
What we all want, no caps, no contention, its at the moment, not possible.
Not in Ireland

It is to a greater extend, than what DSL providers like Eircom and bitstream products are offering.

Kind regards,
Martin List-Petersen
Airwire

Bohrio

Marlow wrote: »

I exactly understand. It's RIP off. Just to mention it to you, I'm running an ISP myself and I know exactly what I'm talking about.



Eircom Business is 24:1 contention, which is still a joke.



It is to a greater extend, than what DSL providers like Eircom and bitstream products are offering.

Kind regards,
Martin List-Petersen
Airwire

Well then you should know why you charge your customers on a 4:1 package 300 euros per month while an eircom 1mb package is ~10 euro per month. The closest thing you have is a 512 kbps line with a 20:1 contention for 30.25 euro.

Eircom can offer 24:1 (IP products) and 10:1 (ATM products) for business. Unfortunately IP/VC 1mb Products (IPCONECT) are all 48:1 with the exception of Swift VC Plus (24:1)

Like you already know, if you want quality you have to pay for it, like Airwire

Marlow

Bohrio wrote: »

Well then you should know why you charge your customers on a 4:1 package 300 euros per month while an eircom 1mb package is ~10 euro per month. The closest thing you have is a 512 kbps line with a 20:1 contention for 30.25 euro.

Because price is not all about bandwidth. It's also about service. A residential product is not considered suitable for resale, it has only dynamic IP and you might have to wait a day or two longer, if an onsite service call is needed.

Bohrio wrote: »

if you want quality you have to pay for it.

Sure, but that wasn't the point here. The point was that combining CAP's, contention AND rate adaptiveness for this sake is rip off.

Bohrio wrote: »

And also, Eircom can offer 24:1 (IP products)

Yes. I've seen their 24:1 products in Tuam (business). You get max 2 mbit out of a 6 mbit DSL.

Bohrio wrote: »

and 10:1 (ATM products) for business. Unfortunately IP/VC 1mb Products (IPCONECT) are all 48:1 with the exception of Swift VC Plus (24:1)

This was not a discussion on business products. It's a discussion on CAPs on primarily residential products. CAPs aren't needed, if you have your network in order. Contention is sometimes needed, depending on the deployment infrastructure, that you use.

/Martin

Marlow

Bohrio wrote: »

while an eircom 1mb package is ~10 euro per month. The closest thing you have is a 512 kbps line with a 20:1 contention for 30.25 euro.

This has nothing to do with the Op's topic. But I just would love to know, how you get to 10 EUR

Eircom's cheapest offering is 25.36 EUR line rental + 24.99 EUR broadband 1mbit/128kbit with a 10 GB download cap and 1 GB upload cap. That's a whoping 50.35 EUR/month. And you can't get the DSL without the phoneline, so you have to include it.

/Martin

Bohrio

You will change your mind about CAPS if you had abusers on your ISP.

I personally think that 700 GB of usage per month is not acceptable.

Caps is the only way to prevent people from over-using a service.

If people were moderating on their usage then the CAP could be raised.

You will see the consecuences of overusing a service soon

Marlow

Bohrio wrote: »

You will change your mind about CAPS if you had abusers on your ISP.
I personally think that 700 GB of usage per month is not acceptable.
Caps is the only way to prevent people from over-using a service.
If people were moderating on their usage then the CAP could be raised.
You will see the consecuences of overusing a service soon

We are in business 2 years, have around 800 customers and there are plenty of people running full throttle at times. That's ok, they are paying for their bandwidth.

The more bandwidth we buy, the cheaper it gets and that benefits the customer.

/Martin

Bohrio

Marlow wrote: »

This has nothing to do with the Op's topic. But I just would love to know, how you get to 10 EUR

Eircom's cheapest offering is 25.36 EUR line rental + 24.99 EUR broadband 1mbit/128kbit with a 10 GB download cap and 1 GB upload cap. That's a whoping 50.35 EUR/month. And you can't get the DSL without the phoneline, so you have to include it.

/Martin

BT's Package is 39 per month. If you remove 24.99 euro you are left with 14 euro. But I was talking about what Eircom Wholesale charges though as I am very familiar with it.

Marlow

Bohrio wrote: »

BT's Package is 39 per month. If you remove 24.99 euro you are left with 14 euro. But I was talking about what Eircom Wholesale charges though as I am very familiar with it.

Wholesale is not residential. Joe average can't buy from Eircom Wholesale. And for packages, you have to calculate the whole fee, because that's what you hand over. If you use their phoneservices or not.

/Martin

balkieb2002

Yes, and i've been charged/warned for going over my cap

Have esat 3mb and have gone over cap probably every month for last 3 years (give or take a couple months) sometime by 30GB plus and yet never been charged nor anything until recently.

Had problems with the wireless connection so was talking to support and they happen to mention that we have gone over our cap for the month (think it was at 40GB). I just acted suprised and mentioned that I didn't know how to set up security on my router. He just said ok and don't let it happen again while also mentioning how to set up the security!

Praetor

Marlow wrote: »

Wholesale is not residential. Joe average can't buy from Eircom Wholesale. And for packages, you have to calculate the whole fee, because that's what you hand over. If you use their phoneservices or not.

/Martin

Eircom Wholesale is both residential and corporate

BT Ireland, Eircom wholesale, UTV... they all go to Eircom wholesale as they are the ones providing the service.

Customers cannot contact them only their ISP. The products they offer are they changed to accommodate the ISP, for ex, IPCONECT will be Option 1 for BT, IPEXPAND will be Option 2... and there on.

Marlow

Praetor wrote: »

Eircom Wholesale is both residential and corporate

Eircom wholesale is neither business nor residential. It's wholesale, that seels business and residential products to wholesale customers. Still, Joe average can't buy there.

/Martin

Praetor

Marlow wrote: »

Eircom wholesale is neither business nor residential. It's wholesale, that seels business and residential products to wholesale customers. Still, Joe average can't buy there.

/Martin

Yes it is as there are different SLA for each product. You can call it business or residential but wholesale its everything.

For example, ALL BT Residential customers go to Eircom wholesale, most business too.

And as it has been said, an average person cannot contact wholesale but you do are getting their product and its still ~14 euros for a 1mb 48:1 service. Caps are applied by the ISP but the contention is set by Eircom wholesale.

So we have

1024/128 48:1 RA product = ~14 euro per month with BT and a CAP of 10 GB

I think its pretty reasonable although I do agree that the CAP could be higher and the contention lower but its the way it works. And with the imminent Eircom network upgrade it will be even faster and cheaper. plus line rental obviously.

You offer for example, Residential 512 kbps 20:1 no CAP 30.25 PLUS VAT + €300 of installation.

If you want no CAP and lower contention there you go! Pay for it!

Marlow

Praetor wrote: »

You offer for example, Residential 512 kbps 20:1 no CAP 30.25 PLUS VAT + €300 of installation.

If you want no CAP and lower contention there you go! Pay for it!

The difference is, that we can provide the service, where others can't in the first place. The infrastructure is a bit more expensive to be able to roll it out and we don't have the backing to hugely discount the installation as others do.

On top of that, when you want/need service, how much time do you want to spend on the phone. Time = Money, which means that with Eircom you've got to calculate how much the time you're hanging in the waiting queue is worth to you.

In regards to the 15 EUR/month, you'll have to include the line rental, that BT or Eircom charge you, because without the line you can't get the DSL, whereas Magnet for example includes the line rental in their DSL price (unbundled products) so you don't have to pay Eircom that additionally.

/Martin