Europe - How?

Fratton Fred

Big question being asked on the Pompey sites at the moment (Apart from how the **** do I get tickets), is which is more important. Winning the FA cup or keeping the pressure on Everton and getting 5th spot (considering we have the "Easier" run in)?

My head say 5th, because it adds credibility but 5th is basically the best of the also rans, whereas you actually WIN the FA cup and your name stays on it forever so my heart goes with that. Also, the FA cup is still special to 88 of the 92 teams in the league.

You fans of the other "Also rans", what do you think, would you prefer 5th or FA cup victory?

~Rebel~

Given the teams left in the FA cup, and the fact that you get into the Uefa cup, it would have to be FA cup for me without a doubt! (this is from a Pompy POV, from a Liverpool POV if it was a question of 4th or an FA cup, it would have to be 4th - champions league is too big to miss out on).

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Fratton Fred wrote: »

You fans of the other "Also rans", what do you think, would you prefer 5th or FA cup victory?

Can I have a go?

I'd go for the FA Cup tbh.

It's a trophy, at the end of the day, it's why lads play the game, to win trophies.

There's a much better chance of Pompey winning the Cup than there is of them getting fifth place, imo. Any team in the "middle tier" of the epl can beat any other of them. It's too unpredcitable.

In the FA Cup you'll have lower league opposition, and your players will certainly be motivated by the chance to win the cup, at Wembly.

Eirebear

There is no comparisons...you want to win a trophy, to have a party, to celebrate, the players want medals.

KdjaCL

Both tbh.

footballers play to win games, medals come after winning a few.


kdjac

Fratton Fred

DesF wrote: »

Can I have a go?

aahh gowan then, it's relevant to all but a few clubs

DesF wrote: »

I'd go for the FA Cup tbh.

It's a trophy, at the end of the day, it's why lads play the game, to win trophies.

There's a much better chance of Pompey winning the Cup than there is of them getting fifth place, imo. Any team in the "middle tier" of the epl can beat any other of them. It's too unpredcitable.

In the FA Cup you'll have lower league opposition, and your players will certainly be motivated by the chance to win the cup, at Wembly.

That's pretty much how I see it, but the arguement at the moment is that an FA cup win does not attract foreign players as much as league position does, which is still an issue for a club like ours.

I still think 5th is beyond us, but Everton still have three of the big four to play so their run in is not that easy. they still have the added bonus of gaining 4th as well though, so their motivation will still be high.

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Fratton Fred wrote: »

That's pretty much how I see it, but the arguement at the moment is that an FA cup win does not attract foreign players as much as league position does, which is still an issue for a club like ours.

'Arry attracts more furriners than any other manager in the history of the game tbh.

~Rebel~

Aye, Harry has a great record for transfers at Pompy. Was amazed he got Muntari, always thought he was a great player and he's adapted very well to England. I think Defoe and Diarra were great January signings as well, really show how far Pompy have come.

Necronomicon

Question.

Without wanting to start the bloody permutations debate again, what happens if Cardiff win the cup? Not being able to play in Europe, would another European spot be opened up to 6th place finishers? Or would it go to the runners-up of the cup?

loyatemu

well I'm a ManU fan, so obviously I've never even heard of this "Pompey" you speak of. But coming 5th and winning the FA cup will both get you into the UEFA cup (where you'll probably go out in the 1st round).

However you won't get an open top bus tour or a day out at Wembley by coming 5th so it seems like a no-brainer. Go for the cup, you'll never have a better chance.

Anyway, can't see Liverpool and Everton being caught for the last 2 european spots.

loyatemu

Necromomicon wrote: »

Question.

Without wanting to start the bloody permutations debate again, what happens if Cardiff win the cup? Not being able to play in Europe, would another European spot be opened up to 6th place finishers? Or would it go to the runners-up of the cup?

up to the FA i'd imagine. I personally don't think the runners up should ever go into europe

MrJoeSoap

21st in the Championship will do me!

hanton12

Necromomicon wrote: »

Question.

Without wanting to start the bloody permutations debate again, what happens if Cardiff win the cup? Not being able to play in Europe, would another European spot be opened up to 6th place finishers? Or would it go to the runners-up of the cup?

why cant Cardiff go into the UEFA cup if they win the FA cup?

MrJoeSoap

hanton12 wrote: »

why cant Cardiff go into the UEFA cup if they win the FA cup?

Because they're Welsh. But the last I heard the FA were trying to "fix" the situation.

KdjaCL

hanton12 wrote: »

why cant Cardiff go into the UEFA cup if they win the FA cup?

They are welsh and knew when they entered the fa cup if they win it they cant enter europe as english reprentives.

Platini on the case to ensure that they do get it should they win it.

If cardiff win it and dont go to europe the next placed team in the league gets it.



On a personal note runners up should get in should something mad happen " we all here on a tech-ni-cal-ity " is such an awesome song


kdjac

LuckyCharms

I'd go for the Fa cup. Considering who is left and what those teams have achieved, portsmouth will realise they can't underestimate them and with defoe ye got a serious goalscorer although depending how everton react to the defeat at fulham,ye might want to keep pushing them in the league as we all know anything can happen in the fa cup

Fratton Fred

DesF wrote: »

'Arry attracts more furriners than any other manager in the history of the game tbh.

We do have four players who may well be (and deserve to be) in the next England squad as well, which is as many as any other team I believe. (We can also put out pretty much a first team that consists of all black players as well!)

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Aye, Harry has a great record for transfers at Pompy. Was amazed he got Muntari, always thought he was a great player and he's adapted very well to England. I think Defoe and Diarra were great January signings as well, really show how far Pompy have come.

There is rumours he may be heading to the red half of Liverpool in the summer, so you may see more of him. Niko Krancjar was a good signing as well. I'm sure Robinson will look forward to facing him (and Defoe) on Saturday:)

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

21st in the Championship will do me!

are you fighting relegation, I hadn't noticed

hanton12

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

Because they're Welsh. But the last I heard the FA were trying to "fix" the situation.

the whole situation is a bit odd tho isnt it. So, for arguments sake then again, just say Cardiff get promoted to the Premier League, if they happen to qualify for Europe too would they also not get in because they are Welsh? I would have thought that by entering whatever tournament you would be eligible regardless of where you are from? Sure wouldnt it serve Cardiff better then just to drop out of the FA competitions and go back to Wales and get the CL qualifier spot from there? All seems a bit odd.

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hanton12 wrote: »

Sure wouldnt it serve Cardiff better then just to drop out of the FA competitions and go back to Wales and get the CL qualifier spot from there? All seems a bit odd.

They decided not to.

In fact, Cardiff and Swansea used to regularly compete in the Welsh FA Cup and compete in the old cup winners cup.

But when the League of Wales was formed in 1992 the clubs were asked to come back, and they decided not to.

They've made their bed tbh. They knew when they entered that they couldn't qualify for Europe through it.

I don't see why the rules should be changed to suit a greedy club.

zAbbo

I'd say the cup, as it gets them into Europe as well, and I reckon they'll do it too.

hanton12

DesF wrote: »

They decided not to.

In fact, Cardiff and Swansea used to regularly compete in the Welsh FA Cup and compete in the old cup winners cup.

But when the League of Wales was formed in 1992 the clubs were asked to come back, and they decided not to.

They've made their bed tbh. They knew when they entered that they couldn't qualify for Europe through it.

I don't see why the rules should be changed to suit a greedy club.

ah right, thats the key point about the formation of the league in 1992. I knew the welsh teams competed in England for years, so it seemed to me like they were being shafted, but yeah, if they had a choice and stayed in England then there can be no come back really. just seemed odd that it wouldnt have been clarified back then by the clubs or that they wouldnt have negotied something back then. Suppose they never thought they'd get into europe and the only thing may not even happen anyway.

And to answer OP question, definately FA cup. Great to win a trophy considering no one outside of top 4 have won it in years.

Galvasean

So, is it actually impossible for Cardiff to compete in Europe under current regulations?

PHB

Well no, if they get the spot, they could well appeal it, and I think they might win if they did. There is precedent to it.

That said, if I'm not mistaken, the FA decides who to send to Europe, and if they wanted, they could say that 1st, 5th, 8th, and 17th place in the league gets a CL spot, there are no official guidelines, just a bit of common sense.

_blank_

PHB wrote: »

There is precedent to it.

What precedent?

I'm curious to know, thanks.

PHB wrote: »

That said, if I'm not mistaken, the FA decides who to send to Europe, and if they wanted, they could say that 1st, 5th, 8th, and 17th place in the league gets a CL spot, there are no official guidelines, just a bit of common sense.

They couldn't decide to change it now though, that is set at the start of the season. And if it could be changed, it would be a farce, imo.

For obvious reasons.

PHB

I think it's like Derry City or someone, but there's a couple, there was a Sky article about it.

They could change it though, it would be a farce, but they can. Indeed, they were in a real tough spot when Liverpool won the CL, cause they never considered the possibility that the winners of the CL wouldn't come 4th. UEFA got them out of it, by giving them an additional place. When that happened in Spain, I think the Spanish FA paid off some team in order to let Real in
The point I'm making is that these things aren't set in stone.

KdjaCL

PHB wrote: »

I think it's like Derry City or someone, but there's a couple, there was a Sky article about it.

They could change it though, it would be a farce, but they can. Indeed, they were in a real tough spot when Liverpool won the CL, cause they never considered the possibility that the winners of the CL wouldn't come 4th. UEFA got them out of it, by giving them an additional place. When that happened in Spain, I think the Spanish FA paid off some team in order to let Real in
The point I'm making is that these things aren't set in stone.

Derry were used in the article incorrectly, Derry are members of the FAI and are not governed by the IFA in any way. So they cant be used a precedent for cardiffs case.

Zaragoza were shafted and only paid after they came 4th madrid 5th but madrid won the CL.

Cardiff imo have no recourse here they agreed to it years ago to stay in england but remain part of the FAW.


kdjac

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PHB wrote: »

I think it's like Derry City or someone,

Er...no.

Derry City are affiliated with the FAI, not the IFA.

Cardiff City are affiliated with the FAW, not the FA.

PHB wrote: »

but there's a couple, there was a Sky article about it.

What Sky article?

What precedent for a team that plays outside it's national affiliation gaining European qualification?

PHB wrote: »

They could change it though, it would be a farce, but they can. Indeed, they were in a real tough spot when Liverpool won the CL, cause they never considered the possibility that the winners of the CL wouldn't come 4th. UEFA got them out of it, by giving them an additional place. When that happened in Spain, I think the Spanish FA paid off some team in order to let Real in

You are correct about that alright.

Did England get an extra place that year, or were Everton unceremoniously dumped out of the CL?

Melion

Everton got into the qualifiers for the CL like 4th place always does and they got knocked out. Hardly anybody elses fault.

What would happen if Cardiff made it to the premiership and in a few years finished 4th? I know its unlikely but where would the CL spot go?

Xavi6

For City it's gotta be winning a trophy. I was gutted when we went out of the cup as we had a serious chance of progressing far. I'd give anything to see us win a bit of silverware more meaningful than the 1999 Division 2 Playoff Final trophy. Maybe we'll win the Intertoto this year.....

Brando_ie

IIRC Monaco were cited as precedent for European qualification.

As for the OP, I would take the FA cup everyday over any Uefa place (for a CL spot it would be league position). 'Arry deserves some silverware to go along with the undoubted admiration he has garnered in his career.

Personally I think the FA will deal the FA cup a death blow if the don't seriously lobby for Cardiff inclusion if they go on to win the cup. Were it not to happen it would be a disgrace and the FA would have no right in complaining at some of the top teams disinterest in the cup for the foreseeable future.

Fratton Fred

Brando_ie wrote: »

Personally I think the FA will deal the FA cup a death blow if the don't seriously lobby for Cardiff inclusion if they go on to win the cup. Were it not to happen it would be a disgrace and the FA would have no right in complaining at some of the top teams disinterest in the cup for the foreseeable future.

I agree, but lets hope the question doesn't need to be asked

WhiteWashMan

KdjaCL wrote: »

On a personal note runners up should get in should something mad happen " we all here on a tech-ni-cal-ity " is such an awesome song


kdjac

funny.
a liverpool tune no doubt