Bin Laden issues out warning to Europe

WoollyRedHat

Osama Bin Laden, on an online message has threatened " grave punishment" to Europe in reguards to the printing insulting cartoons depicting the Islam prophet Muhammed in the Danish newspaper, claiming a reation would come

He also said it was a new crusade against Islam, with the Pope having a "long and lengthly role"

He then went on to say " The response will be what you see rather than what you hear"

The message was released in audio and is believed to be Bin Laden's

This is just great. Why did they reprint the cartoons after the outrage the first time it happened. Looks like Europe is more and more of an enemy to extremists by the day...

A lot more detail of what he said here:http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5iluhfiiaAuB6NXbQeS0poJ3U0uPg

sink

They reprinted the cartoons as a protest against an exposed plot to kill the the cartoonist. Now i'm not saying it was a smart thing or even right to print them in the first place, but the media should not be banned from printing them. I have no respect for the feelings of extremist biggots and bullies, but I do respect the beliefs of moderate muslims who have been caught in the middle.

WoollyRedHat

I feel the same way. But like you said it still wasn't clever, I don't view extremists as having a conscience, truth to be told it shouldn't have been printed in the first place.

Anyway, there is a few startling statements. Time to crank up security. I presume the EU will debate this issue in serious detail as soon as possible as well as responses from Political leaders and perhaps the Pope.

The Artist

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

Osama Bin Laden, on an online message has threatened " grave punishment" to Europe in reguards to the printing insulting cartoons depicting the Islam prophet Muhammed in the Danish newspaper, claiming a reation would come

He also said it was a new crusade against Islam, with the Pope having a "long and lengthly role"

He then went on to say " The response will be what you see rather than what you hear"

The message was released in audio and is believed to be Bin Laden's

This is just great. Why did they reprint the cartoons after the outrage the first time it happened. Looks like Europe is more and more of an enemy to extremists by the day...

A lot more detail of what he said here:http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5iluhfiiaAuB6NXbQeS0poJ3U0uPg

i dont know much about politics as the post interested me.does Osama Bin Laden really take things seriously about cartoons printed in the media and starts threating ,he must be mad!

WoollyRedHat

A leading extremist moreover, but I would call it mad and more

The cartoon in question was taking the piss out of their prophet Muhammed.

wes

He has already made threats several times. I don't see why more threats should make anyone more worried. He is already pissed and trying to organize attacks. I doubt this threat will change much at all.

Fratton Fred

He is a terrorist and this is just another example of terror tactics. There may or may not be a threat imminent, but this message will get people scared.

Interesting he has mentioned the Pope, I don't think he has done this before.

SeanW

He is a terrorist, slime licking, bottom feeding piece of scum. Beginning, Middle and End of story. His views on what Western newspapers should or should not print is worth no more than the Mafia's views on law and order or a message from the KKK about racial harmony.

The newspapers were right to print those cartoons because we have a duty to resist Islamofascism lest we eventually become subject to it.

Liam Byrne

Nasty piece of work alright.....pity the U.S. didn't go after him instead of Saddam....

Moriarty

<OBL> DERKA DERKA MOHAMMED JIHAD~!!!

Piff. Bring it cave boy.

daithicarr

they were also printed in a eygptian news paper without any uproar, three days after they were first published . its only when a western paper printed it there was a stink kicked up .

considering he is ossama was behind the septermber 11th attacks youd think they would spend more time looking for him. and not go after some country which had nothing to do with it. Iraq.

But i suppose having him as a boogey man is probably more usefull. idiotic statements like this can be used to continue to justify the war on Terror.

Dave!

How's Italy's security? I wonder if the Vatican is gonna be a target

Playboy

SeanW wrote: »

The newspapers were right to print those cartoons because we have a duty to resist Islamofascism lest we eventually become subject to it.

You really do have issues dont you? Not so long ago you were starting a thread telling muslims to feck of back to the dark ages and now you are supporting the 'right' of our media to insult a portion of the population of europe.

Yes we should be able to say what we want but that isnt how the world works. If you say something bad enough then you are going to upset people. With free speech comes responsibility. The cartoons in question are utterly irresponsible and serve no purpose other than to antagonise and further alienate a section of the population of europe. It wasnt too long ago that 'The life of Brian' was upsetting large amounts of people in Britain and Ireland and Monty Python were defending it on chat shows. It upset people because there was a different attitude to religion here then and a different respect for it. Just because we have moved on doesnt mean we have to expect everyone else to move on at the same pace or move on at all.

What these people think they are acheiving by reprinting these cartoons is beyond me. And people like you are directly responsible for this ridiculous Us Vs Them attitude that pervades our media and society today with respect to Muslims. The funny thing is that most people such as yourself have never met a Muslim person and dont have the first clue what they are talking about. People talk about terrorists but the media are terrorists in my mind .. spreading terror among average white europeans that 'Islamofacism' (:rolleyes:) is coming to take over and that everyone in europe is going to be living under Sharia law unless we fight it .. its utterley ridiculous. If anything the muslim populations that live in europe are becoming more westernized the longer they live here and very much so after 1 or 2 generations .. things are not going the other way.

Media events such as these cartoons only serve to help the cause of the radical and extreme elements that exist within Islam. If we stop throwing fuel on this fire and try and integerate with and understand our neighbours then radical Islam will just go away.

Lemming

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

He also said it was a new crusade against Islam, with the Pope having a "long and lengthly role"

I guess the Pope having dialogue with Muslim clerics in recent weeks has rattled him. This is an attempt at creating division; nothing more. And a fairly desperate and erroniously obvious one.

This is just great. Why did they reprint the cartoons after the outrage the first time it happened. Looks like Europe is more and more of an enemy to extremists by the day...

You are forgetting one thing. What makes you think Europe hasn't always been an enemy of these extremists anyway? TBH, that comment smells of "If we stay quiet maybe the bad, bad men wont hurt us. Much." The day we live in fear of a fringe element of lunatics regardless of their creed, colour, race or beliefs is the day that we may as well march silently into gas chambers and gas ourselves with smiles on our faces.

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

The cartoon in question was taking the piss out of their prophet Muhammed.

"Their"? prophet? It's not "their" prophet. It's the prophet of the islamic world. Who are these people to claim it's "their" prophet and to commit obscene acts in his name; sullying it and the name of Islam across the world for a warped viewpoint?

Playboy wrote: »

Y
Yes we should be able to say what we want but that isnt how the world works. If you say something bad enough then you are going to upset people. With free speech comes responsibility. The cartoons in question are utterly irresponsible and serve no purpose other than to antagonise and further alienate a section of the population of europe.

As offensive as the cartoons may have been; they proved their original point eloquently (and rather unfortunately imo). People were killed over the whole thing. But you're forgetting one thing; the Muslim world didn't react until a bunch of clerics did a tour highlighting the cartoons to deliberately stoke up outrage, and I should imagine a spot of "firebrand preaching" too.

So who left petrol lying around, who lit the fire and who fanned the flames?

I see a lot of appeasement being thrown around on this thread. It's disturbing and shows how little we value what we have as a society and are willing to pander to violent, violent extremists who view us with hatred anyway for the illusion of safety.

WoollyRedHat

As reguards to the cartoon, I was referring to the religion of Islam in general.

Their"? prophet? It's not "their" prophet. It's the prophet of the islamic world. Who are these people to claim it's "their" prophet and to commit obscene acts in his name; sullying it and the name of Islam across the world for a warped viewpoint?

Granted, our idealogy might always have been hated by others, but to print cartoons that were going to firstly upset those who weren't extremists in the first place, having a go at them as well as further furiating some extremist (Including the clerics you speak about, as another cause for them to spread their preachings against us) lunatics didn't exactly help us.

You're right, we shouldn't live in terror, or let the extremists see we are scared, but if you heard a group of people from a top security prison broke out, wouldn't you be scared?
I don't underestimate those who gladly kill themselves to kill others and use excuses like the cartoons to draw up hatred.

I myself will not be scared after their message threatening us, but none the less the EU and such should take their threats seriously.

Lemming

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

As reguards to the cartoon, I was referring to the religion of Islam in general.

But you accidentally raised a rather good point. Warping religious belief to suit whatever agenda you want to push.

Granted, our idealogy might always have been hated by others, but to print cartoons that were going to firstly upset those who weren't extremists in the first place, having a go at them as well as further furiating some extremist (Including the clerics you speak about, as another cause for them to spread their preachings against us) lunatics didn't exactly help us.

Ok, lets look at this using an example. So you see someone acting like an asshole and tell them to stop acting like one; they pull a gun and shoot you dead. Who is to blame? You for saying something? or the person who carries out a violent deed in reaction.

I should point out it's not the non-extremists screaming blue murder and wanting to kill us. All those mass demonstrations were manipulated. Most of the masses were not shown all of the cartoons but only the couple of directly insulting ones. Thus they were manipulated out of context. Why is that? Again, who is to blame here?

You're right, we shouldn't live in terror, or let the extremists see we are scared, but if you heard a group of people from a top security prison broke out, wouldn't you be scared?

Erm, unless you're trying to equate terrorists with escaping prisoners who are somehow not trying NOT to get noticed so they can get away but instead choose to make some sort of political statement through violence, then your example is brutally flawed.

WoollyRedHat

Lemming wrote: »

But you accidentally raised a rather good point. Warping religious belief to suit whatever agenda you want to push.



Ok, lets look at this using an example. So you see someone acting like an asshole and tell them to stop acting like one; they pull a gun and shoot you dead. Who is to blame? You for saying something? or the person who carries out a violent deed in reaction.

I should point out it's not the non-extremists screaming blue murder and wanting to kill us. All those mass demonstrations were manipulated. Most of the masses were not shown all of the cartoons but only the couple of directly insulting ones. Thus they were manipulated out of context. Why is that? Again, who is to blame here?



Erm, unless you're trying to equate terrorists with escaping prisoners who are somehow not trying NOT to get noticed so they can get away but instead choose to make some sort of political statement through violence, then your example is brutally flawed.

Look, I agree with you.
I am in no way saying this is our fault, what I am trying to say is why even bother fueling the extremists who do take evrything out of context to use as a tool against us. If it weren't for extremists who would use anything to cry Jihad against us, then I doubht there would be much uproar, maybe a few scuffles, but nothing more.

The escaping convicts was in reference to dangerous men who got out, the public would be a little scared. The odds of them coming into their path are slim, but however there would be some fear.

While the extremists have another reason, however small to cite hatred, then some people will be scared, we have seen what has happened in the past, although thankfully most of us don't let it get the better of them.

Playboy

Lemming wrote: »

As offensive as the cartoons may have been; they proved their original point eloquently (and rather unfortunately imo). People were killed over the whole thing. But you're forgetting one thing; the Muslim world didn't react until a bunch of clerics did a tour highlighting the cartoons to deliberately stoke up outrage, and I should imagine a spot of "firebrand preaching" too.

So who left petrol lying around, who lit the fire and who fanned the flames?

I see a lot of appeasement being thrown around on this thread. It's disturbing and shows how little we value what we have as a society and are willing to pander to violent, violent extremists who view us with hatred anyway for the illusion of safety.

And what was their original point apart from a poor attempt at satire? Was their point that if you insult people then they are likely to get pissed off?

As I said earlier cartoons such as the ones printed only serve to help the cause of these radical clerics. Only idiots will give them material to prove their point. Im not advocating bending over and letting radical clerics and or extremists dictate to us what we should or shouldnt do in our own country. What I am saying is that Islam and Muslims are now part of the fabric of modern european society and that they should be treated with respect. Radical clerics dont represent all Muslims but when people are trying to antagonise these clerics or groups with stunts like the cartoons then they are also insulting large majority of moderate muslims also. Why do they deserve this?

Raspberry

الجهاد سرب

Sesshoumaru

I found the cartoons very funny. So what if some people found it offensive. What can you say or do these days that isn't offensive to at least some people? Despite what some people think, freedom of speech does include the right to offend people if you wish. Otherwise it is useless and we might as well all start bowing towards mecca.

Mr. Incognito

I think Osama is long since dead and they just rollout the "boogey-man" every year or two to justify these crazy wars in Afganistan and Iraq.

Playboy

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

I found the cartoons very funny. So what if some people found it offensive. What can you say or do these days that isn't offensive to at least some people? Despite what some people think, freedom of speech does include the right to offend people if you wish. Otherwise it is useless and we might as well all start bowing towards mecca.

So by your logic should we allow racist, bigoted, sexist cartoons be printed because some people find it funny .. After all thats what is important .. our right to be amused at other peoples expense.

WoollyRedHat

Freedom of speech comes with responsibility.

Raspberry

Playboy wrote: »

So by your logic should we allow racist, bigoted, sexist cartoons be printed because some people find it funny .. After all thats what is important .. our right to be amused at other peoples expense.

That's a nice twist you've put on it there. However it's more like our right to say what ever we want. The cartoonist was making a point. He made his point in a satirical way. If we want freedom of speech, we have to allow for people being offended. That is the sacrifice.

Why is it that you feel we should trim our opinions in an effort to try and avoid offending a bunch of people due to a ridiculous belief they have?

SeanW

Playboy wrote: »

You really do have issues dont you?

Yes. I have issues with Islamofascism. I don't want to live under an extremist Sharia jackboot. Full stop.

Not so long ago you were starting a thread telling muslims to feck of back to the dark ages

You misquoted me. I said Muslims in the West who feel that their religion is in direct conflict with the native laws and norms of the Western country they occupy, should - instead of introducing Sharia law to the United Kingdon which is what some were trying to do - go piss off to some place like Saudi Arabia which does have Islamic law and is already in the Dark Ages. I didn't tell anyone to feck off back to the Dark Ages, I merely pointed out that some places are still there and anyone who wants that should go to those places.

and now you are supporting the 'right' of our media to insult a portion of the population of europe.

Freedom of speech includes the right to insult or offend as you see fit. It means you have the right to ask a legitimate question (like asking whether Islam is violent and then being murdered for your trouble) but you also have the right to be a complete asshole if that's what floats your boat. "I may disagree with what you say but I defend your right to say it." You can say whatever you like about my religion, I'm not going to wait in dark alley to stick a knife in your throat. Perhaps it's because I don't choose to be gravely offended by absolutely nothing.

Yes we should be able to say what we want but that isnt how the world works. If you say something bad enough then you are going to upset people.

Enough that they want to kill you?

With free speech comes responsibility.

True. You can't yell FIRE in a crowded building (unless there actually is one). Everything else is, or should be, fair game.

What these people think they are acheiving by reprinting these cartoons is beyond me.

They're telling these cavemen that we will not be bullied by threats, intimidation, murder, terrorism and so on.

spreading terror among average white europeans that 'Islamofacism' (:rolleyes:) is coming to take over and that everyone in europe is going to be living under Sharia law unless we fight it .. its utterley ridiculous.

No? Perhaps you haven't watched Pat Condell's videos as referenced in another thread (he backs up everything he says with sources in his description) German judges quoting Sharia law, UK taxpayers paying extra-spouse benefits to immigrants with multiple wives. It just goes on and on.

If anything the muslim populations that live in europe are becoming more westernized the longer they live here and very much so after 1 or 2 generations .. things are not going the other way.

Some may well be, but many more or not. They're the ones we need to teach a lesson.

Media events such as these cartoons only serve to help the cause of the radical and extreme elements that exist within Islam. If we stop throwing fuel on this fire and try and integerate with and understand our neighbours then radical Islam will just go away.

A bully will only "just go away" when he is faced down. Appeasing them only reenforces their behaviour.

Lemming

Playboy wrote: »

And what was their original point apart from a poor attempt at satire? Was their point that if you insult people then they are likely to get pissed off?

What is the purpose of satire? Answer that and you have answered your own question.

And the point, I think, was rather well summed up by one cartoon with the artist looking over his shoulder; which applies to pretty much anyone who is not a member if Islamic society. The point was further proven by a bunch of firebrand clerics who deliberately went on a tour to goad members of the same faith.

As I said earlier cartoons such as the ones printed only serve to help the cause of these radical clerics. Only idiots will give them material to prove their point.

Once again you are missing one very fundamental and important point. People like this; be they Muslim, Catholic, Taoist, Budhist, or martian; do not need "causes" or excuses handed to them. They perceive them through their own warped logic and then attempt to twist religious dogma to suit their own viewpoint. You don't even need to travel outside of Ireland or Catholiscm to see such people "at work".

Im not advocating bending over and letting radical clerics and or extremists dictate to us what we should or shouldnt do in our own country.

Yes. Yes you are. You're not advocating we let them dictate to us and yet that's exactly what you are proposing we do. The ironic thing is of course that in Iran, they then announced a cartoon contest to ridicule Israel & the holocaust (I never heard any more on it other than them encouraging it in response) and completely missing a core point of the original cartoons.

What I am saying is that Islam and Muslims are now part of the fabric of modern european society and that they should be treated with respect.

On that you shall have no arugment from me. But what is respect and what is pandering or deference? Deference is not a bad thing per-se, but it can also be incredibly damaging when unquestioned.

Radical clerics dont represent all Muslims but when people are trying to antagonise these clerics or groups with stunts like the cartoons then they are also insulting large majority of moderate muslims also. Why do they deserve this?

See my comments about antogonising extremists.

As for moderates and non-extremists; why does anybody do anything in the world for fear of upsetting someone else. I've seen the catholic religion ridiculed plenty of times with little repercussion. So what gives another religion the right to consider acts of violence a perfectly acceptable act?

Playboy

Lemming wrote: »

What is the purpose of satire? Answer that and you have answered your own question.

eh I know what the purpose of satire is .. thats why I said what was the point of the cartoons except as a poor attempt at satire.

Lemming wrote: »

And the point, I think, was rather well summed up by one cartoon with the artist looking over his shoulder; which applies to pretty much anyone who is not a member if Islamic society. The point was further proven by a bunch of firebrand clerics who deliberately went on a tour to goad members of the same faith.

How does this apply to everyone who is not a member of Islamic society? I live in london where there is an enormous Muslim population. How come I dont feel I am looking over my shoulder?

Lemming wrote: »

Once again you are missing one very fundamental and important point. People like this; be they Muslim, Catholic, Taoist, Budhist, or martian; do not need "causes" or excuses handed to them. They perceive them through their own warped logic and then attempt to twist religious dogma to suit their own viewpoint. You don't even need to travel outside of Ireland or Catholiscm to see such people "at work".

Sorry to disagree but I dont think I'm missing any 'fundamental point'. Yes these clerics have a warped logic and they percieve injustice where there is none. But in this case there was an injustice and a continuing injustice. Certain elements in the western media have made a point of printing cartoons that offend and ridicule the Islamic faith in order to make some sort of pathetic point about 'free speech' to a small minority of radicals and extremists that exist within Islam.

In making this 'point' (which shows these radicals just how tough we are :rolleyes:) they are offending the large majority of moderate muslims and are creating division in our society. Its not the fact that an image of Mohammed was printed but the fact that it was intented in an offending and ridiculing manner. Muslims will percieve this as an attack on them and their faith .. an attack that they see repeated and made a point of in the western media .. a point that says more or less that they have put up with this kind of behaviour if the want to be members of our society.

Now most mulims will not attack anybody over something like this but what does happen is that they feel alienated and excluded from mainstream western society. And when people start creating divisions like this then what you are doing is creating a breeding ground for radicalism and extremism and you give these radical clerics an audience that is willing to listen. You see my point? The only purpose these cartoons serve is to promote division which is exactly the opposite of what we want. We want Islamic people to integrate into our society and come to share our values .. this is not the way to do it.

Playboy

Raspberry wrote: »

That's a nice twist you've put on it there. However it's more like our right to say what ever we want. The cartoonist was making a point. He made his point in a satirical way. If we want freedom of speech, we have to allow for people being offended. That is the sacrifice.

Why is it that you feel we should trim our opinions in an effort to try and avoid offending a bunch of people due to a ridiculous belief they have?

Well we expect Racists, Sexists, Paedophiles etc to trim their beliefs in order to fit into society. Should we just let everyone say whatever the fck they like and not care who it offends? Stop being so idealistic .. we dont have free speech ... we cant say what we like and 90% of time we dont say what we like or what we think. If we have freedom of speech then why are people like David Irving put in prison?

Playboy

SeanW wrote: »

Some may well be, but many more or not. They're the ones we need to teach a lesson.

This sentence just about sums you up. I'm not going to reply to the rest of your post because I think your judgement is clouded by some other agenda and what I say isnt going to change your mind.

DarkJager

Why don't the media just put a blackout on this patethic fcukin retard??? Every now and again he supposedly surfaces, babbles off some random sh1t about crusades and infidels, then goes back to his hole.

Playboy

DarkJager wrote: »

Why don't the media just put a blackout on this patethic fcukin retard??? Every now and again he supposedly surfaces, babbles off some random sh1t about crusades and infidels, then goes back to his hole.

Because it sells and servers many other purposes