saddled with debt

BeardyGit · 23-03-2008 2:33pm

gordon_gekko wrote: »

il pay off the debt on the jeep i sold when the banks reopen on tuesday
i sent off the change of ownership on thursday so it should be ok

as regards the jeep i just bought , i was talking to the people who sold it to me yesterday evening

And?

gordon_gekko · 25-03-2008 1:06pm

Gil_Dub wrote: »

And?

they said they would clear the debt

i explained to them that they could end up with a ****ty credit ratting if they didnt

BeardyGit · 25-03-2008 1:41pm

Good man. Hope they get their act together. I know a guy who ended up being stung after he bought a car with finance outstanding. He ended up losing the car and never got any money back from the seller, a former partner of his.

Anyway, best of luck,

Gil

gordon_gekko · 25-03-2008 1:50pm

Gil_Dub wrote: »

Good man. Hope they get their act together. I know a guy who ended up being stung after he bought a car with finance outstanding. He ended up losing the car and never got any money back from the seller, a former partner of his.

Anyway, best of luck,

Gil

theyve assured me they will pay it off , i will check cartell next week to see if they have , if they have not , i will have to test them to see if they are liars
if they fail the test , the situation will have to move into a new and more serious phase , wont worry untill i have to , will ring my solicitor tomorrow to find out is the home made document they plus myself and my witness signed stating they were responsible for any finance on the vechile worth the paper its printed on
besides if they were to default on payments , its not only me who would be hurt , they could end up with a ****ty credit ratting and i wouldnt imagine that would be any help to a big potatoe grower, they have huge machinery and i assume they use banks all the time

even rich people dont need a credit ratting problem

Steve · 25-03-2008 1:58pm

Gordon, the issue still remains that if it was HP finance then the car was not theirs to sell.

I could have sold you O'Connell bridge and signed a letter saying I promise to pay for it sometime - don't think it would hold up.

Our man in Havana · 25-03-2008 2:00pm

Can the owner (finance house) repossess the goods?

The finance house can only repossess the goods under certain circumstances. If the consumer has not yet paid off one-third of the total hire purchase cost, the owner can repossess the goods at any time without taking legal action against the consumer.

However, if the consumer has paid one-third or more off the total hire purchase cost, the owner cannot repossess the goods without taking legal proceedings. Any deposit that is paid at the start of the agreement or the value of any trade-in for example, is taken into account in calculating one third of the cost.

If this "one-third" rule is breached by the owner, the consumer is entitled to end the agreement and can seek a refund of all payments made.

Now if the car is sold off to a 3rd party, it leaves the finance company in a difficult position as they must sue the original buyer for the car back. It would be very difficult to seize the car from the 3rd party without a court order first.

Jip · 25-03-2008 2:15pm

Is it just me that sees the irony in the op going by the name of Gordon Gekko ?

Our man in Havana · 25-03-2008 2:18pm

Jip wrote: »

Is it just me that sees the irony in the op going by the name of Gordon Gekko ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Gekko

Santa Claus · 25-03-2008 2:47pm

gordon_gekko wrote: »

theyve assured me they will pay it off , i will check cartell next week to see if they have , if they have not , i will have to test them to see if they are liars

I don't know how quickly cartell is updated with finance history etc. It may take a month or two to see the finance is cleared.
Why not just find out who the HP agreement is with and ring them next week to make sure it has been cleared....best to get it straight from the horses mouth so to speak !

maidhc · 25-03-2008 3:23pm

Bond-007 wrote: »

Now if the car is sold off to a 3rd party, it leaves the finance company in a difficult position as they must sue the original buyer for the car back. It would be very difficult to seize the car from the 3rd party without a court order first.

But a court order will issue as a matter of course!

The 3rd party has absolutely no rights unless (and I am open to correction, it has been ages since I have dealt with this stuff) he bought as a purchaser for value without notice from a person other than he with whom the HP contract was made.

Our man in Havana · 25-03-2008 3:52pm

Still it is very difficult for them to get it back from a 3rd party.

ninty9er · 25-03-2008 3:55pm

This whole thread is pointelss.

At this point we still haven't calrified if it was ACTUALLY

a) A HP Agreement.
b) A personal loan guaranteed by the kid's mammy.
c) A car loan guaranteed by the mammy.

b) and c) may relate to the car, but the payment on them has nothing to do with it, but in the case of a) The car belongs to GE/Woodchester/AIB/Ulster Bank/anyone else you care to mention. They can lift the car from anyone regardless of whose name is on the HP agreement. The car belongs to the finance house, same as a house belongs to a bank or building society until a mortgage and all other loans secured on it are cleared.

Seems like a storm in a teacup to me. Sounds like a car loan to me.

Our man in Havana · 25-03-2008 3:59pm

They can lift the car from anyone regardless of whose name is on the HP agreement. The car belongs to the finance house, same as a house belongs to a bank or building society until a mortgage and all other loans secured on it are cleared.

I would hope that they serve a court summons first and give the person in possession a fair hearing. The days of the knuckle dragging Neanderthal repo man stealling a car in the dead of night are a thing of the past.

ninty9er · 25-03-2008 4:51pm

Bond-007 wrote: »

I would hope that they serve a court summons first and give the person in possession a fair hearing. The days of the knuckle dragging Neanderthal repo man stealling a car in the dead of night are a thing of the past.

They serve a summons on the person who the agreement was signed with AFAIK. The average Leaving Cert Business book will give more detailed info than me.

But a repo man would not be stealing the car as he or she would be acting on the instructions of the owner (HP company), same way as banks can serve notice of foreclosure on a house, once the notice is up they can enter and change locks.

Financial Regulator wrote:

How hire purchase works

With hire purchase, the store or garage acts as an agent for a finance company and earn commission to arrange the finance for you.
When you use a hire purchase agreement to buy a car, for example, the motor dealer sells the car to the finance company, which in turn rents the car to you for an agreed period of time in return for a set monthly repayment over a number of years.
During the agreement, you can use the car but the finance company actually owns it. At the end of the agreement, the finance company passes ownership of the car to you, provided you have made all the repayments.
You can buy the car back from the finance company at any time during the agreement by paying a 'settlement figure'. This is calculated as the remaining instalments you owe less a 'rebate'. The rebate is a refund of some of the interest due if you kept to the original term. But, if you pay off the finance early, you will not save as much in interest as you would with a personal loan.
With some hire purchase agreements, the monthly payments are not evenly spread out and you may be paying less in the earlier months of the agreement. This may result in a large final payment at the end of the term, known as a balloon payment. Make sure you will be able to meet this payment as you will have to do so in order to clear the debt and become the owner of the goods.
If you cannot clear your debt in the agreed time, your credit rating may be affected and this can make it more difficult for you to get a loan or mortgage in the future. And, the finance company may have the right to repossess the car or other goods if you cannot pay in full.

They don't seem to offer a lease explanation though

maidhc · 25-03-2008 4:52pm

Bond-007 wrote: »

I would hope that they serve a court summons first and give the person in possession a fair hearing. The days of the knuckle dragging Neanderthal repo man stealling a car in the dead of night are a thing of the past.

Fair hearing, but not a leg to stand on!

ninty9er · 25-03-2008 5:01pm

maidhc wrote: »

Fair hearing, but not a leg to stand on!

Exactly, the HP company never had a legal agreement with the current "possessor" of the car and therefore has no obligation as far as a court is concerned.

Our man in Havana · 25-03-2008 5:06pm

What I meant was the HP company would have to serve notice on the current possesor and seize the car with a valid court order during daylight and not seize it at 3am with no prior notice. That is all.

Steve · 25-03-2008 5:08pm

ninty9er wrote: »

Exactly, the HP company never had a legal agreement with the current "possessor" of the car and therefore has no obligation as far as a court is concerned.

So if someone borrows your car and then sells it you have no legal right to get it back:rolleyes:

If you sell something you do not own it's a crime - AKA fraud.

Steve · 25-03-2008 5:09pm

Bond-007 wrote: »

What I meant was the HP company would have to serve notice on the current possesor and seize the car with a valid court order during daylight and not seize it at 3am with no prior notice. That is all.

Why in daylight?
Why should they give prior notice?

Our man in Havana · 25-03-2008 5:10pm

If you sell something you do not own it's a crime - AKA fraud.

But are the cops liable to do anything about it?

Our man in Havana · 25-03-2008 5:13pm

stevec wrote: »

Why in daylight?
Why should they give prior notice?

Would you be happy, if they took "your" car in the middle of the night without giving you the chance to remove any personal effects? You wake up in the morning to find it gone and a few pieces of glass on the ground where the car was parked?

The current person would need to informed that they held the FC's property and give them a chance maybe to settle up or return the car by consent.

Steve · 25-03-2008 5:22pm

Bond-007 wrote: »

Would you be happy, if they took "your" car in the middle of the night without giving you the chance to remove any personal effects? You wake up in the morning to find it gone and a few pieces of glass on the ground where the car was parked?

The current person would need to informed that they held the FC's property and give them a chance maybe to settle up or return the car by consent.

They don't break into the cars - they lift them onto the garda truck.;)
And yes, it'd be courteous and nice if they called first, had a cup of tea and a chat, they don't have to though.
Once the court order is given, the sheriff can sieze the vehicle anytime.

I'd be more unhappy about the fact that I'd just lost €15k because I stupidly bought a car with outstanding finance.

Our man in Havana · 25-03-2008 5:27pm

Once the court order is given, the sheriff can sieze the vehicle anytime.

Yes, provided the person is served with a copy of the order.

You seem to be supporting repo men and their antics? I once had a self confessed repo man post on a forum I happen to own, needless to say I banned him after he started bragging about the mothers on the school run he left stranded in the rain after taking their cars.

I am not against banks getting their stuff back so long as due process is observed.

ninty9er · 25-03-2008 5:28pm

stevec wrote: »

So if someone borrows your car and then sells it you have no legal right to get it back:rolleyes:

Yes I would, which is exactly why the finance house would have every right to take its car back;)

Steve · 25-03-2008 5:35pm

ninty9er wrote: »

Exactly, the HP company never had a legal agreement with the current "possessor" of the car and therefore has no obligation as far as a court is concerned.

ninty9er wrote: »

Yes I would, which is exactly why the finance house would have every right to take its car back;)

Which version are you going to run with 99er?

Steve · 25-03-2008 5:43pm

Bond-007 wrote: »

Yes, provided the person is served with a copy of the order.

You seem to be supporting repo men and their antics? I once had a self confessed repo man post on a forum I happen to own, needless to say I banned him after he started bragging about the mothers on the school run he left stranded in the rain after taking their cars.

I am not against banks getting their stuff back so long as due process is observed.

Not supporting them at all. I'm just pointing out what they can and will do. Some of the earlier posts here were a bit "it'll never happen" or "don't worry, they can't take your car".

Privately buying a car with finance is of the big no-no's - if the seller defaults then you've lost both the money you've paid and the car.

AFAIK they only serve notice to enter a property, they can take an un-attended vehicle.

As for the guy you banned - he's way up there with clampers, traffic wardens and safety speed cameras.:mad:

ninty9er · 25-03-2008 5:47pm

stevec wrote: »

Which version are you going to run with 99er?

Both are the same. Finance house has every right to it's car.

possessor not = owner. and in the case of HP agreements the old adage doesn't hold.

Steve · 25-03-2008 5:51pm

ninty9er wrote: »

Both are the same. Finance house has every right to it's car.

possessor not = owner. and in the case of HP agreements the old adage doesn't hold.

Sorry, misunderstood your first statement:)

Gandalf23 · 25-03-2008 7:48pm

To the OP ... firstly I'm sorry you are in such a messy situation, and I hope it all works out well for you.

Secondly (and more importantly) you need to COMPLETELY IGNORE most of the advice given above and immediately consult a good solicitor. Before you do this you will need to get all documents relating to the vehicle, and also get the most complete story of the exact financial history (supported by lease/HP/banking documents if available) of the vehicle as possible. Talk to the sellor ... get details of the lease/finance company and any bank involved, and contact them directly.

I have been involved with stuff like this in a previous life, and from experience I know that this has the potential to turn into a big mess for you. You now need sound legal advice rather than opinions from an Internet forum.

Good luck OP and let us know how things turn out.

gordon_gekko · 04-04-2008 7:12pm

Gandalf23 wrote: »

To the OP ... firstly I'm sorry you are in such a messy situation, and I hope it all works out well for you.

Secondly (and more importantly) you need to COMPLETELY IGNORE most of the advice given above and immediately consult a good solicitor. Before you do this you will need to get all documents relating to the vehicle, and also get the most complete story of the exact financial history (supported by lease/HP/banking documents if available) of the vehicle as possible. Talk to the sellor ... get details of the lease/finance company and any bank involved, and contact them directly.

I have been involved with stuff like this in a previous life, and from experience I know that this has the potential to turn into a big mess for you. You now need sound legal advice rather than opinions from an Internet forum.

Good luck OP and let us know how things turn out.

not sure if anyone really gives a monkeys how this issue turned out for me but seeing that the above poster asked

i got conformation today from cartell that the vechile i bought is no longer indebted to any finance house
i had to have a few uncomfortable phone calls with the seller but nothing too hostile , they kept saying that they were disapointed in me for not trusting them to simply keep up the repayments
who can you trust in this day and age
anyway , i got away with it but will never again buy any car without checking 1st on cartell if its owned by a finance house

btw , its a 2006 toyota landcruiser swb comercial automatic with just under 30 thousand miles , i paid 26,750 in hard cash for it
i think its was good value as a new one is over 41 , its certainly a buyers market right now
thanks for all the advice , case closed i guess

saddled with debt

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