Would other boardsies be pissed off about this.

board om

the_syco wrote: »

To the person talking about the "reasonable man"... no everyone has a credit card, and also the OP has pointed out that she cant pay via the post office a bill that she doesn't have the service number:

you can pay in the post office with cash and with the account number. if you dont have this on an old bill then the OP could have got this during one of the 'many' calls made to customer service regarding the billing.

thats reasonable

seagull

If they're having issues with the billing system, I don't want to make a payment that may or may not get credited to my account. I'd rather wait until they've fixed their billing system, and then get everything resolved. I don't want to have to spend more time and effort persuading them that the payments have been made. The OP confirmed with the company that they were not going to apply penalties for missed payments due to the issues with their billing system.

Morgans

What you are saying essentially is that any company that provides a service and doesn't issue payment notice due to a fault of their own - in the form of an invoice for example - should expect to be recompensed when not receiving payment. Utter nonsense.

Would it not be a reasonable man's assumption that a leading player in a multi-billion euro industry could issue bills?

board om

bottom line is if you NEED to be sent a piece of paper to be told that you are supposed to pay money when you know it is owed, then you shouldnt be an account holder in the first place. when signing up for services like TV, Broadband, Telephone, etc you are accepting a resposibilty for that service. they expect you to be mature and adult enough when signing up for the service, so that if something like a bill not going out happens, that you are mature and responsible enough to pay it regardless. if you need someone to actually send you a piece of paper that says "you must pay this now" then i dont think you are responsilbe enough to have signed for the service in the first place.

the ironic thing is if their billing system had gone completely bananas and they hadnt sent out the bill for the 3 months but they also in error didnt charge for the 3 months either, i dont think you would be calling them up and saying "hey, you forgot to charge me for the last 3 months and i would like to offer to pay it". and i am not saying that the OP is dishonest in any way. tbh i dont think many people would call them and make that offer, i know i probably wouldnt. you would take it as their mistake so their loss, and would quite happily move on with a smile on your face at finally getting something back from one of these useless companies.

Morgans

That is very good board om, and i would agree with bits and pieces. But how quickly do you think the company would pay a €90 fine if after three months you rang the television service provider and said, "I would like to pay you for the three months that you havent charged me so far, given that your billing system is by your admission, faulty. However, I am going to have to charge you a €90 administrative charge as I had to ensure that I had 300 to hand in case you did demand the payment."

axer

Morgans wrote: »

That is very good board om, and i would agree with bits and pieces. But how quickly do you think the company would pay a €90 fine if after three months you rang the television service provider and said, "I would like to pay you for the three months that you havent charged me so far, given that your billing system is by your admission, faulty. However, I am going to have to charge you a €90 administrative charge as I had to ensure that I had 300 to hand in case you did demand the payment."

You cannot charge an administration fee on your debts like that considering you could have paid you debts every month. The op *knew* how much he/she owed every month. The *knew* when it was normally due. NTL did not refuse to accept the OPs money thus there was nothing stopping the OP from not paying it.

Morgans

The OP also stated that there was a deadline date before which the money needed to be paid. Was this information forwarded to the OP for the three previous months. The OP could have paid, but I dont think many would have, and had the OP been provided with a deadline date before which he/she needed to pay, then he/she doesnt have a leg to stand on.

However, in my experience, these deadline dates come with the bill.

I dont think that anyone is claiming that the OP shouldn't pay the three months that he/she owes, its the 90 fine that is the matter.

SO if the ESB bill doesnt come, given that you use electricity, you should pay an estimate each week. Just in case.

board om

Morgans wrote: »

The OP also stated that there was a deadline date before which the money needed to be paid. Was this information forwarded to the OP for the three previous months. The OP could have paid, but I dont think many would have, and had the OP been provided with a deadline date before which he/she needed to pay, then he/she doesnt have a leg to stand on.

However, in my experience, these deadline dates come with the bill.

I dont think that anyone is claiming that the OP shouldn't pay the three months that he/she owes, its the 90 fine that is the matter.

SO if the ESB bill doesnt come, given that you use electricity, you should pay an estimate each week. Just in case.

its usually the same with each bill. you get the bill on x date and then you have 21 days from that date to pay the bill.

please dont get me starrted on the ESB and their 'bill estimate'. i have got screwed on the bill estimate in nearly every place i have lived in the last 10+ years. and everytime you ask them where the figure has come from they always tell you that an the ESB guy came out and read the meter. a house i had about 8 years was unoccupided for over a year and they still claimed they had been in the hosue to read the bloody meter. all i could say was i would love to know who let you in becuase i have the only keys

Del2005

board om wrote: »

bottom line is if you NEED to be sent a piece of paper to be told that you are supposed to pay money when you know it is owed, then you shouldnt be an account holder in the first place. when signing up for services like TV, Broadband, Telephone, etc you are accepting a resposibilty for that service. they expect you to be mature and adult enough when signing up for the service, so that if something like a bill not going out happens, that you are mature and responsible enough to pay it regardless. if you need someone to actually send you a piece of paper that says "you must pay this now" then i dont think you are responsilbe enough to have signed for the service in the first place.

Thats a very bad attitude to have. If the company wants your money they can send a bill, they are providing a service and part of that service is to correctly invoice you. Do you think that the company would pay you for a service without and invoice, whats good for the goose is good for the gander.

If they don't send a bill and you ask why not then you are doing you resposible job. I wouldn't pay any comapny that told me their billing system isn't working as I'd rather fight them over a missed payment then try chasing money back from them.

the ironic thing is if their billing system had gone completely bananas and they hadnt sent out the bill for the 3 months but they also in error didnt charge for the 3 months either, i dont think you would be calling them up and saying "hey, you forgot to charge me for the last 3 months and i would like to offer to pay it". and i am not saying that the OP is dishonest in any way. tbh i dont think many people would call them and make that offer, i know i probably wouldnt. you would take it as their mistake so their loss, and would quite happily move on with a smile on your face at finally getting something back from one of these useless companies.

The OP didn't get a bill and asked why they hadn't recieved the bill so your irony isn't very ironic:) They knew there was a bill due, rang to ask, where told the billing system isn't working and wait for the bill to be sent.

board om

Del2005 wrote: »

The OP didn't get a bill and asked why they hadn't recieved the bill so your irony isn't very ironic:) They knew there was a bill due, rang to ask, where told the billing system isn't working and wait for the bill to be sent.

i am fully aware of what happened. but in my 'ironic therory' what i would have meant is say the OP had called for the missing 3 months bills and the TV company had said "no, there is no money owing on your account. all payments are up to date". would OP then argue that they do owe them money and insist on paying it? or if the 4th months bill had arrived in the post and it showed NO outstanding balance. would OP then have called and said "you seem to have made a mistake on my bill, i actually owe you 3 months bills"?

board om

Del2005 wrote: »

Thats a very bad attitude to have. If the company wants your money they can send a bill, they are providing a service and part of that service is to correctly invoice you. Do you think that the company would pay you for a service without and invoice, whats good for the goose is good for the gander.

If they don't send a bill and you ask why not then you are doing you resposible job. I wouldn't pay any comapny that told me their billing system isn't working as I'd rather fight them over a missed payment then try chasing money back from them.

if after 3 years of being with the same company and there were no previous issues on the bill, i wouldnt complain if there was only 1 billing issue in that 3 years. you are never going to get any service 100% and it is unrealistic to expect it. there has to be a margin of error allowed. and one mistake in 3 years is pretty good.

and you not paying a bill you knew was due just becuase you didnt get a piece of paper telling you to pay it says more about your character than anything. i suppose it comes down to morals and ethics at the end of the day.

id say if we took a poll we would find that the people who think the OP shouldnt bother paying the bill are the ones who regularly experience problems likes these with their TV, Broadband, Phone, providers. missing bills, direct debit mandates going missing, getting charged unneccesary charges, etc.
and the people who do think she should pay and that she should actually have been paying it all along rarley have these issues, pay their bills on time, and most likely by direct debit. i bet these people all know how much is in their bank account at any time and roughly how much their various services cost per month.

in other words responsible people versus irresposible.

MOH

board om wrote: »

bottom line is if you NEED to be sent a piece of paper to be told that you are supposed to pay money when you know it is owed, then you shouldnt be an account holder in the first place. when signing up for services like TV, Broadband, Telephone, etc you are accepting a resposibilty for that service. they expect you to be mature and adult enough when signing up for the service, so that if something like a bill not going out happens, that you are mature and responsible enough to pay it regardless. if you need someone to actually send you a piece of paper that says "you must pay this now" then i dont think you are responsilbe enough to have signed for the service in the first place.

If that's the case why do any company use time and resources to send out bills? Would they not just rely on everyone knowing when and how much they're due to pay to each provider?
In fact, the terms and conditions of one TV provider (which may well be the one we're talking about here) clearly state:
"You must pay all the Charges for which we bill you (whether you use the Services or someone else does), together with any Value Added Tax and any other taxes (atapplicable rates from time to time) which apply in relation to any Charges payable under this Agreement. You must pay your bill by the date specified in your bill."
It's up to them to bill you. Many people wouldn't have a constant monthly payment anyway, e.g. if they used pay-per-view services.

axer wrote: »

The op *knew* how much he/she owed every month. The *knew* when it was normally due. NTL did not refuse to accept the OPs money thus there was nothing stopping the OP from not paying it.

Apart from not having any old bills with account numbers on them with which to pay.

board om

MOH wrote: »

Apart from not having any old bills with account numbers on them with which to pay.

if the OP didnt know the account number then how did they call and discuss the lack of a bill?

Morgans

Well done MOH for going to the trouble of finding the terms and conditions for one TV provider. So, the consumer is being penalised for missing a date on a bill that he/she didnt receive, due a fault with the company's billing process. I noticed that a growing number of people on this forum, and maybe in society in general, are willing to take the side of the company with an phlegmatic bordering on subservient attitude. I have a theory on why this is the case, but wouldnt be too sure if it was right. But sure the big companies are only just trying to make a crust like the rest of us.

Whether or not the OP pays the penalty for this is up to him/herself, but he/she should not have been penalised.

Morgans

board om wrote: »

if the OP didnt know the account number then how did they call and discuss the lack of a bill?

It doesn't matter. If its in the terms and conditions that you pay the amount owed once you are billed, by the date stated on the bill, then that is what both you and the company signed up to. The OP has no right to be penalised.

Maybe the terms and conditions can only be referred to when the company believes it backs up their case.

Of course, this assumes that the T&C listed above are from the same TV provider of the OP. Of course, there arent that many around, so the odds are pretty high that it is.

board om

Morgans wrote: »

It doesn't matter. If its in the terms and conditions that you pay the amount owed once you are billed, by the date stated on the bill, then that is what both you and the company signed up to. The OP has no right to be penalised.

Maybe the terms and conditions can only be referred to when the company believes it backs up their case.

Of course, this assumes that the T&C listed above are from the same TV provider of the OP. Of course, there arent that many around, so the odds are pretty high that it is.

to be completly 100% honest, if this had happened to me i would be seriously be arguing that €90 additional charge with the TV company. you better believe i would be causing some serious headaches with the customer services supervisor. BUT saying that, in the back of mind i would know i really should have just paid the bloody thing and if i managed to get them to waive the €90, i would be thinking "ha ha, nice one, got away with €90". where as if it was €90 i defintly did not owe and it went on my bill in error so there was no reason for it what so ever, i would argue it the same way but my thoughts if i got it waived would be more along the lines of "the cheeky bast*rds sticking extra charges on my bill for no reason, well at least they gave at back and it is sorted now".

in other words i would kind of feel like i had got one over on them if they had waived the money in the above situation. but in a situation where the money just went on to my account in error i would feel i deserved the money back becuase it was completely their error.

Oracle

I'd pay the €70 per month for the months I received service but nothing more. Then I'd give the notice required, if any, and leave their service. I'd give notice in writing or by email, so I'd have a record, and of course note down any names of the people I deal with over the phone.

I'd suggest you look into getting a FTA (Free To Air) satellite dish and receiver, you can get hundreds of channels, including BBC and ITV for a one off fee, and no monthly rental. For a basic system it would cost about €200. Also, while you're at it, why not shop around for a cheaper internet solution?

You might be able to find a much better deal on broadband. Look on the bright side! If you get rid of your present dreadful TV provider, this could be an opportunity to shop around and save yourself some cash!