Easter Parade

Victor

So we had the Easter Parade today to mark the 1916 Rising. I'm just wondering, why hold it on a Sunday, when the Rising was on the Monday?

IRLConor

Victor wrote: »

So we had the Easter Parade today to mark the 1916 Rising. I'm just wondering, why hold it on a Sunday, when the Rising was on the Monday?

Well, seen as they've decided that the Rising was a moveable feast just like Easter I don't think there's much to complain about. Today's commemoration is off by a month!

Edit: I was there, it was a nice enough ceremony.

HydeRoad

If the rebels for Irish freedom could come back and see the present incumbent leader of free Ireland, I wonder what they might say?

Dave!

didn't realise there was a commemoration this year

gurramok

It was only on for a half hour. :mad:

Dave!

Sure if it justifies Fianna Fail calling themselves the Republican Party, I'm sure it's worth it! We'll probs see a huge, week-long parade to celebrate the 95th anniversary just before the next general election They'll all but exhume James Connolly and prop him up on the stage to shake Biffo's hand

murphaph

HydeRoad wrote: »

If the rebels for Irish freedom could come back and see the present incumbent leader of free Ireland, I wonder what they might say?

They'd say "at least we're corrupting ourselves" or some such nonsense. We've not grown up much as a nation since 1921 have we. Still tolerating the oul loveable rogue. Sure it's too british to pillory the likes of Ahern for taking a few digouts. We don't do that here. :rolleyes:

I didn't realise there was a commemoration either. Nobody missed it. Nobody complained. Nobody cares.

flogen

DaveMcG wrote: »

Sure if it justifies Fianna Fail calling themselves the Republican Party, I'm sure it's worth it! We'll probs see a huge, week-long parade to celebrate the 95th anniversary just before the next general election They'll all but exhume James Connolly and prop him up on the stage to shake Biffo's hand

Ah, I'd say the 95th one might be on the same scale as the 90th was, it'll be the 100th where they go all out (assuming we still have the money to do so then!).

By 2016 they'll (hopefully) have Glasnevin done up, the GPO converted into something... well, unique and useful I hope and they'll probably have a week of events commemorating the Easter Rising that will merge into the St. Patricks Festival and turn March 2016 into a non-stop sea of green and flag waving and vomit and parades.

I personally cannot wait.

Rossibaby

murphaph wrote: »

They'd say "at least we're corrupting ourselves" or some such nonsense. We've not grown up much as a nation since 1921 have we. Still tolerating the oul loveable rogue. Sure it's too british to pillory the likes of Ahern for taking a few digouts. We don't do that here. :rolleyes:

I didn't realise there was a commemoration either. Nobody missed it. Nobody complained. Nobody cares.

speak for yourself please

there were two on in sligo where i live.A PSF one and one in support of a connolly socialist forum...heard were good turnouts but couldn't make it myself

to answer the question earlier...i dont think connolly,pearse etc would be too chuffed about where we are now...but ireland has always gone through this stage,history has showed it time and time again.plus the brave men of 1916 didn't have a mandate and they certainly didnt have public support,but i guess people recognise and respect the fact that these people were executed and sacrificed themselves for what they thought was right.they inspired a nationa nd many generations even to this day...not bad for a tiny group with inferior numbers and arms to the british imperialist war machine.

some of irelands greatest ever minds perished in the 1916 rising.RIP. and happy easter everyone:)

Dave!

flogen wrote: »

Ah, I'd say the 95th one might be on the same scale as the 90th was, it'll be the 100th where they go all out (assuming we still have the money to do so then!).

They'll go all out whenever it's politically prudent to do so! But yeah the 100th will be big

flogen

DaveMcG wrote: »

They'll go all out whenever it's politically prudent to do so! But yeah the 100th will be big

Well the 90th was a big enough event - that wasn't long before a general election either!

Dave!

Exactly my point mate!

djpbarry

flogen wrote: »

...they'll probably have a week of events commemorating the Easter Rising that will merge into the St. Patricks Festival and turn March 2016 into a non-stop sea of green and flag waving and vomit and parades.

Think I might book myself a month-long getaway for March 2016 so...

Rossibaby wrote: »

...plus the brave men of 1916 didn't have a mandate and they certainly didnt have public support...

Probably because Ireland had already been granted Home Rule in 1914.

Rossibaby wrote: »

...but i guess people recognise and respect the fact that these people were executed and sacrificed themselves for what they thought was right.

Not really. I think people respect these guys because that's what they're told to do from an early age. One cannot possibly be Irish and question the Rising - 'tis sacrilegious!

Rossibaby wrote: »

they inspired a nationa nd many generations even to this day

Their actions also, quite possibly, lead to the partition of the country.

LordSutch

djpbarry wrote: »

Their actions also, quite possibly, lead to the partition of the country.

I would go one stage further and suggest that the 1916 Rising 'definately' helped to partition the country.

You wont find me at the 100th anniversary either.

The rebels in 1916 basically got impatient and got many people killed and even worse, set off a chain of events that would see even more killed in the decades following. I'm all for pride in our culture and heritage, but the thought of honouring that is revolting to me.

IRLConor

Perhaps a National Holiday on either the 6th or the 29th of December would be better? We're short a few bank holidays compared to the rest of the EU IIRC.

murphaph

Rossibaby wrote: »

speak for yourself please

Well, did I miss the public outcry at a lack of easter rising marches, or was there one?

Rossibaby wrote: »

there were two on in sligo where i live.A PSF one and one in support of a connolly socialist forum...heard were good turnouts but couldn't make it myself

Lol, they sound like a barrel of laughs.

Rossibaby wrote: »

to answer the question earlier...i dont think connolly,pearse etc would be too chuffed about where we are now...but ireland has always gone through this stage,history has showed it time and time again.plus the brave men of 1916 didn't have a mandate and they certainly didnt have public support,but i guess people recognise and respect the fact that these people were executed and sacrificed themselves for what they thought was right.they inspired a nationa nd many generations even to this day...not bad for a tiny group with inferior numbers and arms to the british imperialist war machine.

some of irelands greatest ever minds perished in the 1916 rising.RIP. and happy easter everyone:)

I personally feel much more sorry for the couple of hundred ordinary dubs like myself who were caught up in the rebels' reckless actions nd who paid for it with their lives. They tend to be forgotten about when glorifying the blood lust of Pearse and his jolly mates. I blame them for the division of orange and green on this island. Their actions caused ripples that were still being felt in NI decades later.

duggie-89

djpbarry wrote: »

Think I might book myself a month-long getaway for March 2016 so...
Probably because Ireland had already been granted Home Rule in 1914.
Not really. I think people respect these guys because that's what they're told to do from an early age. One cannot possibly be Irish and question the Rising - 'tis sacrilegious!
Their actions also, quite possibly, lead to the partition of the country.

well be my guess to leave, if you need ahand paying for ur one way ticket dont hesitate to give me a call.

yea home rule was in the pipe line but the uvf would have def made a strong obstacle agasint it. and the fact was that the men of 1916 didn't fight for home rule they fought for a free irish republic.

no infact i disagree its important for people to question the risings its their outcomes that make them irish, but more importantly proud to be irish.

i am sorry explain your last point, how excatly did it??

and murphaph der was no public out cry because there wasn't a lack of marches and commerations. all those true republicans remembered their patriot dead. there were events the whole lenght and breath of the country.

its just a pity more people didn't relaise their scarfices. and the people's sacfices. remember it was the actions of people like the men of 1916 that the vast majority of people later in that dedcade supported in the elctions and the black and tan war.

murphaph

duggie-89 wrote: »

and the fact was that the men of 1916 didn't fight for home rule they fought for a free irish republic.

But sure they didn't get it! We got dominion status within the empire in 1921. The declaration of a republic was made in 1949, peacefully and without a drop of blood spilling. We could have done that without the rising.

duggie-89 wrote: »

no infact i disagree its important for people to question the risings its their outcomes that make them irish, but more importantly proud to be irish.

Eh? I'd be irish whether or not Pearse & Co. did what they did. We were irish before independence and we're still irish.

duggie-89 wrote: »

and murphaph der was no public out cry because there wasn't a lack of marches and commerations. all those true republicans remembered their patriot dead. there were events the whole lenght and breath of the country.

I guess the small numbers in attendance and the almost complete lack of any news about them show how the general population feel about it then....not much is the answer.

lostexpectation

DaveMcG wrote: »

didn't realise there was a commemoration this year

oh you didn't see it
http://www.indymedia.ie/attachments/mar2008/some_audience_participation_.jpg

duggie-89

murphaph wrote: »

But sure they didn't get it! We got dominion status within the empire in 1921. The declaration of a republic was made in 1949, peacefully and without a drop of blood spilling. We could have done that without the rising.

I guess the small numbers in attendance and the almost complete lack of any news about them show how the general population feel about it then....not much is the answer.

again you seem to miss the point, like you always seem to do. :rolleyes: weather or not they fully achieved what they done, it doesn't affect what they fought for. and you will find that they fought for a 32 county republic not a 26 county that was little more that britians pawn.

and could we really have done it without a drop of blood being spilled then why did the civil war take place??? and how much blood was spilled in that.

well i would disagree and i am sure you would expect me to. the fact that the irish gov started up the cemmoration again to reassure the irish public that they were a republican party says it all. they are pandering to the great republican spirit of the people that has laid dormant for sum time.

and the lack of news does nothing to say about what the irish people think about the rising it says alot about the media of ireland who for so long encouraged cenorship of the press and of reall news, with bias reporting so its no suprise that the great rising isn't widly reported in the media because those who hold on the risings legacy were the same ones who were being censored for so long.

but can i just ask do you feel that those who fought on the rebels side during 1916 can be regarded as hero's??

duggie-89

lostexpectation wrote: »

oh you didn't see it
http://www.indymedia.ie/attachments/mar2008/some_audience_participation_.jpg

excellent link lol

guinnessdrinker

murphaph wrote: »

I personally feel much more sorry for the couple of hundred ordinary dubs like myself who were caught up in the rebels' reckless actions nd who paid for it with their lives. They tend to be forgotten about when glorifying the blood lust of Pearse and his jolly mates. I blame them for the division of orange and green on this island. Their actions caused ripples that were still being felt in NI decades later.

Good point, it is true that the ordinary citizens killed in '16 are the forgotten ones. This is wrong of course. They should also be remembered when holding Easter rising commemerations.

In fairness, I don't think you can blame Pearse and co. for the division of orange and green. Relations were not exactly civil between Unionists and Nationalists before 1916 either. Just look at the amount of sectarian rioting that occured in the 19th century for a start. The division betwen orange and green didn't just begin in 1916.

djpbarry

duggie-89 wrote: »

well be my guess to leave, if you need ahand paying for ur one way ticket dont hesitate to give me a call.

Oh don't worry - I imagine I will have left the country well in advance of that particular propaganda-fest, perhaps to somewhere where people don't hold grudges over events that occurred before their own grandparents were born.

duggie-89 wrote: »

yea home rule was in the pipe line but the uvf would have def made a strong obstacle agasint it.

Strong obstacle? Home Rule had been granted - the UVF's opposition to this would not change anything.

duggie-89 wrote: »

and the fact was that the men of 1916 didn't fight for home rule they fought for a free irish republic.

And they achieved neither.

duggie-89 wrote: »

no infact i disagree its important for people to question the risings its their outcomes that make them irish...

Eh, no, I think the fact that I was born in Ireland makes me Irish, Rising or no Rising.

duggie-89 wrote: »

i am sorry explain your last point, how excatly did it??

I didn't say it did, I said it possibly did.

Had the Rising never taken place, it is quite possible that Lloyd George would not have thrown out the Third Home Rule Bill and replaced it with the Government of Ireland Act of 1920, which effectively partitioned the country.

duggie-89 wrote: »

...weather or not they fully achieved what they done, it doesn't affect what they fought for.

It does however mean that they failed.

duggie-89 wrote: »

and you will find that they fought for a 32 county republic...

...which they failed to achieve.

duggie-89 wrote: »

and could we really have done it without a drop of blood being spilled then why did the civil war take place???

Unless I am very much mistaken, the declaration of a republic was a rather peaceful affair?

HydeRoad

Did the rebels fight for a democratic free Ireland?

duggie-89

djpbarry wrote: »

Oh don't worry - I imagine I will have left the country well in advance of that particular propaganda-fest, perhaps to somewhere where people don't hold grudges over events that occurred before their own grandparents were born.

ok happy days but i would agree that it will be notyhing more than a propaganda-fest, which is a shame because the real hopes and stories will be forgotten. i dont know them fully myself but i fear i never will. a hear that there has been an attempt by a film crew in the south to try and do a balanced judgement and documentry on the rising long before the hype starts from the current FF gov trying to reclaim their republican credentials.

and what grudges do you feel are being held??? easter is about remebering our patriot dead.

djpbarry wrote: »

Strong obstacle? Home Rule had been granted - the UVF's opposition to this would not change anything.

it would have changed alot. the uvf would have staged a rising of their own i believe. you seem to under estimate the resolve of the uvf and loyalist forces in the north and in parts of the south to this matter. home rule was promised but achieving it is another matter totaly. remember britian promised a the palistine's and irseali's the same thing. infact if you are familar with an incident which occured were a mutint occure in one of the irish ports because sailors on british ships who had families in the north made it clear that they would not enforce home rule on ireland.

it is the popular belief of historians that the british public would not have stood for a population that wanted to remain part of the uk being succed. which would have happened, the uvf would have fgought a war to remain part of the uk and the british public would have reacted to this.

djpbarry wrote: »

And they achieved neither.

you would be correct they didn't achieve their aims and their fight has still to be won. but would you say the same for such men such as che guvera?? he didn't achieve his aims.

djpbarry wrote: »

I didn't say it did, I said it possibly did.

Had the Rising never taken place, it is quite possible that Lloyd George would not have thrown out the Third Home Rule Bill and replaced it with the Government of Ireland Act of 1920, which effectively partitioned the country.

ok i am sorry but i think you have just missed out the years between 1916 and 1920. alot happen in those years. i mean if lloyd george really wanted to grant home rule then why not after 1918 when ww1 ended???? and had the rising never taken place we could very possibliy have an ireland united................ but under the british crown. ireland would be little more than a puppet. and its parliament little more than a talking shop for those who dont care about the irish people.

here is a wee link you should maybe take the time out to read
http://http://www.iol.ie/~dluby/proclaim.htm

djpbarry wrote: »

Unless I am very much mistaken, the declaration of a republic was a rather peaceful affair?

you are infact very much mistaken the true decleration of a republic sparked of a week long rising that we are infact talking about. dont forget it was the decleration of an independent Irish Republic that declared "the right of the people of Ireland to the ownership of Ireland, and to the unfettered control of Irish destinies, to be sovereign and indefeasible."

but if your talking about the republic that was claimed in 1949 then if that is what you aspire to supporting then its a pity because the dreams and hopes of Thomas J. Clarke, Sean Mac Diarmada, Thomas MacDonagh, P. H. Pearse, Eamonn Ceannt, James Connolly, Joseph Plunkett have not been realised.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

djpbarry wrote: »

Oh don't worry - I imagine I will have left the country well in advance of that particular propaganda-fest, perhaps to somewhere where people don't hold grudges over events that occurred before their own grandparents were born.

where exactly is this?

duggie-89

HydeRoad wrote: »

Did the rebels fight for a democratic free Ireland?

yea they did, you can read their vision of a republic her:http://www.iol.ie/~dluby/proclaim.htm

but i think the part your looking for in it is; "Until our arms have brought the opportune moment for the establishment of a permanent National, representative of the whole people of Ireland and elected by the suffrages of all her men and women"

HydeRoad

Umm, so if Ireland will be democratic when it is united as a 32 county republic, what form of administration would the true republicans have us enjoy before that day comes?

duggie-89

HydeRoad wrote: »

Umm, so if Ireland will be democratic when it is united as a 32 county republic, what form of administration would the true republicans have us enjoy before that day comes?

well a seperate administration was set up after 1916 and largly rolled out the folling years where republican courts were set up and in practice their was two governments in ireland at the time the british ones and the irish ones. from my knowledge they were fairly fair and democratic. unfoutnerly the years after the civil war has seen that it wouldn't be practial to have another administration. so in my practical opinion we can hope to achieve some sort of more reasonable administration that is in place but that is only my opinion.

walrusgumble

flogen wrote: »

Ah, I'd say the 95th one might be on the same scale as the 90th was, it'll be the 100th where they go all out (assuming we still have the money to do so then!).

By 2016 they'll (hopefully) have Glasnevin done up, the GPO converted into something... well, unique and useful I hope and they'll probably have a week of events commemorating the Easter Rising that will merge into the St. Patricks Festival and turn March 2016 into a non-stop sea of green and flag waving and vomit and parades.

I personally cannot wait.

considering it will be the 1916 leaders it be more arbour hill than glasnevin. hopefully the lads at kilmainham jail will offer free tours etc that week