Mastering ? Magic or Messing??

madtheory

studiorat wrote: »

there's too much emphisis on the whole mastering thing.

Agreed 100%. Write some good music first, then arrange it well, perform it with passion and the rest is easy peasy.

PaulBrewer

madtheory wrote: »

Agreed 100%. Write some good music first, then arrange it well, perform it with passion and the rest is easy peasy.

Agreed again .... but it's when the 'rest' has a negative effect on the important bit is when you have trouble.

seannash

i think mixing down right is far more imporatnt but mastering is defin itely important,whether you do it or someone else.especially in dance music

spence101

Recently recorded an EP in qube studios and have just recieved the mastered copy after a month of mixing, listening, remixing and listening again and the quality of the mastered EP cannot be underestimated. The EP has a flowing quality to it and the sound does not drop or rise as so many of my home recordings have done. I agree that the mastering process adds about 10% to the tracks.



www.myspace.com/selflessgooddeeds

PaulBrewer

Who mastered it?

spence101

Money was an issue so we didnt send it to one of the big mastering guys in ireland. It was mastered in qube studios by Colm Querney and William Block, they did a cracking job of it too.


www.myspace.com/selflessgooddeeds

PaulBrewer

spence101 wrote: »

Money was an issue so we didnt send it to one of the big mastering guys in ireland. It was mastered in qube studios by Colm Querney and William Block, they did a cracking job of it too.


www.myspace.com/selflessgooddeeds

Gentlemen both!

af_thefragile

I'm gonna be recording and producing the single and EP for my album myself. But i'm thinking of getting the final completed album (which i'm planning on releasing by the end of this year) mastered at a proper studio... I don't quite know if i'll be able to afford it though.
Can Anyone tell me how much it'ld cost to get an album decently mastered??

henessjon

hey af frag


my understanding is mastering is a different thing to a mix studio..

if you have a mixed song it is then mastered.

can someone confirm that when you have a song mastered it is given one of them industry identfiers encoded in? maybe thats a burning cd task manufacturer

sei046

A little off topic but there are a lot of airy fairy musicians/writers around! But maybe im just jaded with the years of cover songs and irish country! I just find it funny.

Go with the ether man, just roll with your emotions and let the music do the talking. Dial in a bit of 12 Khz to get the passion in her voice to ooze out of the speakers and the cut below 40 Hz to get rid of any bad feelings between the band members...Yeah.......yeeahh......mmmmmm....yeahhhhhh

PaulBrewer

henessjon wrote: »

hey af frag


my understanding is mastering is a different thing to a mix studio..

if you have a mixed song it is then mastered.

can someone confirm that when you have a song mastered it is given one of them industry identfiers encoded in? maybe thats a burning cd task manufacturer

Yes, I know WAV mastering do that and I guess Fergal at Suite does the same... are they called IRTC codes or something?

iquinn

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Yes, I know WAV mastering do that and I guess Fergal at Suite does the same... are they called IRTC codes or something?

almost, they're called ISRC codes, usually given to the Engineer by the record label, they're primarily used for royalty collection and general administration purposes, radio play, chart compiling, etc.

If you've registered your song with IMRO or another royalty collection agency they'll want an isrc code to help with payment collection.

If it's a self release or you're starting your own label, in Ireland, the PPI give out the codes and as far as I know that service is free.
http://www.ppiltd.com/isrc.htm
They give you your first code which will end in 5 digits and then you just add to that with each release. i.e. 00001, 00002, etc etc...

The mastering engineer can then embed the code into the premaster cd for replication. (Also known as a pmcd or Red book cd(r), or if it's a cd with video, it's called Blue book).

PaulBrewer

iquinn wrote: »

almost, they're called ISRC codes, usually given to the Engineer by the record label, they're primarily used for royalty collection and general administration purposes, radio play, chart compiling, etc.

If you've registered your song with IMRO or another royalty collection agency they'll want an isrc code to help with payment collection.

If it's a self release or you're starting your own label, in Ireland, the PPI give out the codes and as far as I know that service is free.
http://www.ppiltd.com/isrc.htm
They give you your first code which will end in 5 digits and then you just add to that with each release. i.e. 00001, 00002, etc etc...

The mastering engineer can then embed the code into the premaster cd for replication. (Also known as a pmcd or Red book cd(r), or if it's a cd with video, it's called Blue book).

Nice one! Every day's a Schoolday again...

dav nagle

You have to to get the upc's registered yourself here in Dublin. The mastering engineer from my experience leaves it up to you.

iquinn

dav nagle wrote: »

You have to to get the upc's registered yourself here in Dublin. The mastering engineer from my experience leaves it up to you.

the upc code is the barcode system that's put on the cd artwork so shops can scan it and enter it into their system. More commonly known as EAN codes in europe, you can embed those into the pmcd, but it's very rare that you'd get asked to do that as having that code embedded in the cd doesn't really serve any useful purpose.
It's always on the artwork and is really only for shop purposes, so it's not really needed in the pmcd.

It's basically a unique product number, GS1 handles them-
http://www.gs1ie.org
I think there's a few american sites where you can buy them also, but GS1 are the offical chaps as far as i know.

i think upc/ean are all supposed to be one now, upc was the us version.

henessjon

http://www.austin360.com/music/content/music/stories/xl/2006/09/28cover.html

dav nagle

henessjon wrote: »

http://www.austin360.com/music/content/music/stories/xl/2006/09/28cover.html

Its a great read, nice post. It actually seems that the mastering engineers are contributing to this shocking over digitized wall of pain. If they don' do what they are told they wont get more work from the labels. Catch 22.

jtsuited

dav nagle wrote: »

Its a great read, nice post. It actually seems that the mastering engineers are contributing to this shocking over digitized wall of pain. If they don' do what they are told they wont get more work from the labels. Catch 22.

yeah you do feel sympathy for them alright. over in the mastering section of gearslutz there are some stories from mastering engineers re labels etc.

tweeky

But if you are not on a label you can tell the engineer yourself not to mash it.
He will obviously advise on current trends in peak level, but you don't want your track quieter than the competition in your genre ie. if it's folk don't attempt to match Timabaland/Dre or a super mashed dance compilation that was assembled by the tea boy double limited with a finalizer.

jtsuited

tweeky wrote: »

don't attempt to match Timabaland

+1
his album is the most disgustingly smashed album i have ever heard.

dav nagle

tweeky wrote: »

But if you are not on a label you can tell the engineer yourself not to mash it.
He will obviously advise on current trends in peak level, but you don't want your track quieter than the competition in your genre ie. if it's folk don't attempt to match Timabaland/Dre or a super mashed dance compilation that was assembled by the tea boy double limited with a finalizer.

Well as bold as a statement this is, my experience has been that mastering engineers are on some sort of high chair. They sit above the sound engineers opinion due to there 'countless years of experience' spiel. In other words its hard to explain yourself sometimes without getting the audio technical side of things splashed in your face.

tweeky

Maybe you need to find the right guy. You need to tell them wghat you would like to achieve but also have an open mind to their thoughts and concerns. Maybe the vocal isn't loud enough, too esssey whatever.

When i have a track mastered i want a expert analysis on the overview of the track ie. tone balance bass/mid/treble, then the level increased (but not so much that my mix falls apart with the left and right extremities sounding out of place and the reverb/delays increasing in level from the balance i set) Limiting if necessary and the ISRC codes and that's all. If he has to rescue a mix then i haven't done my job.

Mastering should be subtle in EQ and Comp/Limiting resulting in your track sound as good as possible in as many speakers as possible.

iquinn

tweeky wrote: »

Maybe you need to find the right guy. You need to tell them wghat you would like to achieve but also have an open mind to their thoughts and concerns. Maybe the vocal isn't loud enough, too esssey whatever.

When i have a track mastered i want a expert analysis on the overview of the track ie. tone balance bass/mid/treble, then the level increased (but not so much that my mix falls apart with the left and right extremities sounding out of place and the reverb/delays increasing in level from the balance i set) Limiting if necessary and the ISRC codes and that's all. If he has to rescue a mix then i haven't done my job.

Mastering should be subtle in EQ and Comp/Limiting resulting in your track sound as good as possible in as many speakers as possible.

+1

plus it should also be an objective set of ears, for instance, in the context of an album, there might be a weak track that that shouldn't be included just because it's been recorded and mixed.

dav nagle wrote: »

Well as bold as a statement this is, my experience has been that mastering engineers are on some sort of high chair. They sit above the sound engineers opinion due to there 'countless years of experience' spiel. In other words its hard to explain yourself sometimes without getting the audio technical side of things splashed in your face.

'countless years of experience' may be valid in some cases, but at the end of the day it's your project and you need to be 100% happy with the end result.

henessjon

ok

well I am happy to acknowledge there is a place for mastering,

now how many tracks make an album (:rolleyes:)

iquinn

henessjon wrote: »

ok

well I am happy to acknowledge there is a place for mastering,

now how many tracks make an album (:rolleyes:)

In some countries the chart system determines what can be referred to as an album, generally 5 tracks or more, or over 25mins in length, whichever comes first. i.e. a 10 track 20min cd would be recognised as an album.

Different formats also have different limitations as to how much you can 'fit' onto them. The track count isn't really relevant, the track duration is though.
Vinyl LP's, for a decent volume level, would average 15-20mins each side, depending on various factors.
With CD's, the Redbook standard maximum is 74mins, most replicators can do 80min discs (orange book), but the again the average tends to be between 30-40mins.

also, there's some studies that say the brain looses concentration within 40mins....! so it's a good place to start, but there's plenty of longer albums out there.

PaulBrewer

One of our biggest Auralex jobs, Wav Mastering in Limerick gets a good ole write up here.

http://blog.remixmag.com/briefingroom/2008/07/15/auralex-acoustics-gets-the-balance-right-at-wav-mastering/

PaulBrewer

I bought that special edition remastered copy of U2's first album 'Boy' on Saturday - sounds much better than I remember but still sounds the 'same' i.e. the feel of the tracks is the same.

Anyone else got any of the reissued jobbies?

tweeky

Yes, i bought ABC's the "Lexicon Of Love" and The Smiths "The Best Of The Smiths" to replace Vinyl / earlier CD versions and both sounded crap. Re-Mastering unless Done by a respected Mastering Engineer / overseen by the artist = more limiting/less bottom more top!
Most reissues are like compilations and are farmed out to the less expensive guys and are lashed out.
There will always be exceptions to the rule in the case of the bigger artists who have the clout to approve the cuts.

studiorat

Ditto Cocteau Twins...
Cut the head o ya.

PaulBrewer

tweeky wrote: »

more limiting/less bottom more top!
M

that has been my experience too ... except this one.

PaulBrewer

I see this lad has mastered the new Kings of Leon album. It sounds good.
http://mixonline.com/recording/interviews/audio_richard_dodd/

tweeky

Richard Dodd produced "Harry's Game" for Clannad back in the day!

iquinn

looks like he's making something too...

http://themotone.com/

sounds interesting.
http://mixonline.com/online_extras/richard_dodd_bonus/