Civil Service - EO exams

The_Conductor

gary the great wrote: »

So are the chances of actually being offered a job quite slim?

Do they exhaust the panel, or just run a new competition after 2 years even if theres still people on the old panel?

New competition is held and a panel constituted from it every 2-3 years, unless the panel is exhausted before then (which does happen). The people on the old panel lapse and will have to apply for the new competition. At one stage I was placed on 7 different panels.

lstar1

First of all, sorry if this has already been covered.

I was placed at number 22 on the Dublin panel after the EO interviews and early last week rang for feedback, which I was first emailed and got in the post yesterday.

I think there was some sort of mix-up because Alice Mancier then rang me on Friday saying that I’d soon receive my FB. I told her I’d got it already but also out of curiosity asked her if there was a recruitment freeze. She told me there wasn’t and that in fact I was currently under consideration for a post; I just had to receive ‘clearance’ first. I assumed that this was departmental clearance until I rang yesterday. I asked the girl who answered if she had any idea how long the clearance process takes, because I’m going away shortly in case they were to ring. She told me that it’s Garda vetting, which can take 2-6 weeks (I’ve never had any dealings with the Gardai so surely it won’t take that long). I asked what job I was being considered for and she told me that only after I’d received clearance would I be assigned to a particular department.

Does anyone have a realistic idea of how long it will take (there’s a big difference between 2 and 6 weeks) to receive clearance and also, does it actually sound like I am under consideration for a post or does everyone go through this process?

Thanks.

The_Conductor

Even after you receive clearance- it can still take a number of weeks, or even months, before you receive a date to report to a particular department.

There is not a recruitment "freeze" ongoing- but there is a requirement on Departments to cut their wage bills by 3% by the end of next year. Allowing for natural wastage (retirements, deaths and people moving elsewhere), this actually accounts for over 3%- so limited recruitment is perfectly viable, if savings can be identified elsewhere (in most cases it means non-renewal for contract employees once their contracts are up).

Do not expect the recruitment process to take 2 weeks- if you look at it as a longer process- perhaps even up to 2 months in length- you are probably being more realistic. It does vary from case to case though- some are longer- some far shorter.

gary the great

smccarrick wrote: »

New competition is held and a panel constituted from it every 2-3 years, unless the panel is exhausted before then (which does happen). The people on the old panel lapse and will have to apply for the new competition. At one stage I was placed on 7 different panels.

Thanks for the answer

I asked where i was on the panel, was told I was placed 15 on the order of merit on Board 3 (19 candidates placed from this board which means nothing to me - I still dotn know where i am.

Anyone know what they mean by Board 3? Does this mean for Dublin there is 2 Boards ahead of me for placement (each with roughly the same number of candidates)?? They should really explain it to the candidate.

gary the great

Ok got onto them today and it turns out I came around 56th or so for Dublin which im delieghted with.

Now my predicament is I got a job in Oz, starting in November. Its a 3month contract to begin with with a view to sponsership if we both are happy.

Am I right in saying for an EO job you have 3months from the date of offer to start the position?

How long roughly will take to get down to number 56 on the panel? Are we talking 2 months, 4 months, 6 months etc timeframe?

Th plan is to go out to Oz, see if i liek the job out there, if not i'll be offered an EO job over here and can come back and take that.

gary the great

Double post

The_Conductor

gary the great wrote: »

Am I right in saying for an EO job you have 3months from the date of offer to start the position?

How long roughly will take to get down to number 56 on the panel? Are we talking 2 months, 4 months, 6 months etc timeframe?

Th plan is to go out to Oz, see if i liek the job out there, if not i'll be offered an EO job over here and can come back and take that.

I have no idea where you got the idea that you had 3 months from date of offer after the interviews to start a position? Normally once you are offered a position they want you to start ASAP. When I was offered EO in Agriculture- they wanted me to start the following Monday. You could very possibly put it off a few weeks- but months would be highly unusual........

Also- the length of time it would take them to get to no. 56 depends entirely on how Departments are recruiting. Keep in mind the 3% reduction in payrolls costs and the reduction in staffing numbers- its not an embargo- but it is a massive slowdown. It could be a while- or alternatively- it could be 10 days- its pretty much impossible to tell........

Your plan sounds very idealistic- is it realistic though? Ring up the Public Appointments Service and find out what speed they are getting down the list quick, before you book any tickets!

gary the great

smccarrick wrote: »

I have no idea where you got the idea that you had 3 months from date of offer after the interviews to start a position? Normally once you are offered a position they want you to start ASAP. When I was offered EO in Agriculture- they wanted me to start the following Monday. You could very possibly put it off a few weeks- but months would be highly unusual........

Also- the length of time it would take them to get to no. 56 depends entirely on how Departments are recruiting. Keep in mind the 3% reduction in payrolls costs and the reduction in staffing numbers- its not an embargo- but it is a massive slowdown. It could be a while- or alternatively- it could be 10 days- its pretty much impossible to tell........

Your plan sounds very idealistic- is it realistic though? Ring up the Public Appointments Service and find out what speed they are getting down the list quick, before you book any tickets!

Well if they dont allow 3 months well then yep its a bit idealistic, i thought it was a good plan otherwise. I thought that we had 3 months because i've applied for positons in the HSE and other public bodies and they all seemed to alow 3 months, presumed EO was the same. Well they have to allow a month anyway, 90% being offered a job are going to have to give a months notice to their current employer.

knowing my luck ill get offered the job a week into my trip to Oz. I will ask them tomorrow at what speed they are going through the panel, hopefully its slow enough. Im currently a CO in a semi state and there is loads of EO leaving all the time so I think they will fly down to number 56.
I'll also ask them tommorrow if theres a chance of them skipping my number should I not be here and then come back to me, although its highly unlikely!

Thats also a little strange they wanted you to start on the following Monday SmcCarrick, surely they would have known for a few weeks that an EO was leaving!?

The_Conductor

gary the great wrote: »

Thats also a little strange they wanted you to start on the following Monday SmcCarrick, surely they would have known for a few weeks that an EO was leaving!?

Sorry- what do you mean- that they would have known for a few weeks than an EO was leaving? People are not automatically replaced when they leave- it could very well be that if they know someone is leaving, and they are working in a critical area- that they might want the new person to start immediately, so that the person who is leaving can give them an introduction to the job along with a little on-the-job training. Alternatively- if its not seen as a critical area- the post may have been vacant for a long period of time- and is only being filled because the HEO/AP in the area are refusing to facilitate personnel in some manner until such time as the vacancy is filled.

The Civil Service is not like the HSE or the semi-state bodies (first of all its tiny in comparison- its less than 1/6 the size of the HSE). People are not always coming and going- depending on the Department, its a reasonable assumption that you will be 4-6 years in a section before you would be transferred elsewhere. You can ask to be transferred to a different department at any time- but the mechanisms for facilitating this are totally gummed up with decentralisation- Departments are run like little feifdoms, and at present at refusing to facilitate each other with transfers other than for positions secured in Public competitions (i.e. new/replacement posts). The reason for this- if they let someone go- there is a reasonable assumption that the post they are vacating would be back filled- however without Dublin recruitment the vacancies are piling up, and impinging drastically on the ability of sections to do their allocated work.

When I was starting I wanted to take a break (I was already working out statutory notice- as my job was being offshored to India) for a 3 weeks, as I had not had any holidays in the previous 4 years. Eventually they agreed to allow me 3 weeks- but they were distinctly frosty about it.

yabadabado

when people were filing in the application form and it asked about the areas you wanted to work in could you mark as many areas u liked or was it just two.

The_Conductor

yabadabado wrote: »

when people were filing in the application form and it asked about the areas you wanted to work in could you mark as many areas u liked or was it just two.

As many as you like. Some are ringfenced though (i.e. even if you put a tick in the box for EO ICT- you will not be considered for the post unless you hold the requisite qualifications- and these are not checked until after the interview stage). Re: locations- you can put down as many as you like- I put down Kildare, Laois, Dublin, Wicklow and a few others). Just like to keep my options open. Now all I have to do is figure a timetable for when the move is on!

S.

gary the great

smccarrick wrote: »

As many as you like. Some are ringfenced though (i.e. even if you put a tick in the box for EO ICT- you will not be considered for the post unless you hold the requisite qualifications- and these are not checked until after the interview stage). Re: locations- you can put down as many as you like- I put down Kildare, Laois, Dublin, Wicklow and a few others). Just like to keep my options open. Now all I have to do is figure a timetable for when the move is on!

S.

same as, they wont even give a rough estimate or say how fast the panel is moving. I want to do a bit of travelling before hand and would like rough guestimate, want to know if it looks like ill be waiting weeks/months/years!!

The_Conductor

gary the great wrote: »

same as, they wont even give a rough estimate or say how fast the panel is moving. I want to do a bit of travelling before hand and would like rough guestimate, want to know if it looks like ill be waiting weeks/months/years!!

In all fairness- a panel can virtually stand still for months on end and then 40 or 50 people all get called in the space of a week. The Public Appointment Service have no control over it.

You'll most probably be waiting longer if you didn't put down a location that is definitely decentralising (as most of the Dublin vacancies are being backfilled with excess staff from the Department of Agriculture and the Department of Social and Family Affairs). Even this is up in the air a bit with the DIG meeting next week probably going to throw the cat among the pidgeons.

Hang in there- by next weekend there should be sufficient leaks from the DIG meeting that we all might have a better idea of the lay-of-the-land, as it were.........

gary the great

I have Dublin only as my location.

Thnaks for all your assistance by the way smccarrick its been really helpful....

Lamps

Well I got a call from PAS, they said I’m next on the list and there’s a job in the Department of Social and Family affairs in Clondlakin.

Tbh it’s the one department I didn’t want to go to. I don’t know what the job entails yet so will wait for the job spec or whatever they send me. Must say I’m disappointed though, have heard it’s probably the toughest department to work in and if it involves working on a front counter and having to deal with people signing on I’m probably not going to take it.

The_Conductor

Lamps wrote: »

Well I got a call from PAS, they said I’m next on the list and there’s a job in the Department of Social and Family affairs in Clondlakin.

Tbh it’s the one department I didn’t want to go to. I don’t know what the job entails yet so will wait for the job spec or whatever they send me. Must say I’m disappointed though, have heard it’s probably the toughest department to work in and if it involves working on a front counter and having to deal with people signing on I’m probably not going to take it.

Lamps- it does have the reputation of being one of the tougher Departments to work for- but its all relative, you will get tough situations in any Department- particularly in roles which involve dealing with the public.

Normally an EO would not be on counter duty, counter staff are normally COs (with the more senior staff perhaps SOs). An EO would have a number of these staff reporting to him/her, and would most probably have to deal with the more difficult cases (read more hysterical members of the public or more delicate scenarios)........

If you are specifically looking for a Dublin posting- the local offices are about the only areas that people are being recruited for.

Nolanger

There's not much left in Dublin apart from the dole offices. Bad time to be going there with the recession. Will have to deal with difficult customers and complaints. That Department is one of the worst to work in. Difficult to get out of a dole office and move on in the civil service. Looks great on your CV though as most civil servants would refuse to work there.

The_Conductor

Nolanger wrote: »

Looks great on your CV though as most civil servants would refuse to work there.

Not true at all. Most civil servants do move between different departments at different stages in their career- some postings may be considered more prestigious or indeed more likely to lead to a faster promotion than others (read Taoiseach's Office/Houses of the Oireachtas here) while others might often be considered backwaters (particularly some Departments that are a lot less relevant than they might have been in bygone years- read Agriculture etc here.

DSFA- is one of the big spending Departments (particularly in recessionary times), so you are far more likely to have greater responsibilities than you might otherwise have.

I do think that its very much a false opinion that most civil servants would not work there- I know quite a few EOs, HEOs, APs working there who are all quite happy and proud to work there. My own wife used work there (she moved as her job was being deported to Letterkenny- and she wanted to try for a position in a different part of the country).

Any post that entails a large element of interaction with the public does introduce an additional dimension into the job. Most front-line staff receive pertinent training in this respect (in the same way that bank tellers and other staff who deal with the public the fulltime receive training to help them better carry out their duties).

Local offices are perceived by many as awful postings- as the nature of the job means you often have to deal with some very difficult cases and decisions. But you are likely to encounter difficult decisions in any job- if you're not capable of making a difficult decision and accepting the implications of your decision- then perhaps you should not be going for a management level position?

S.

Nolanger

Lamps the dole offices are understaffed. You will be working your ass off there because of the recession and may have to help out doing clerical officers' work. Most dole offices have seen a large jump in new people signing on this year and I'm sure Clondalkin is no exception.
It's unfair that newly assigned EOs get put there. They should be assigning experienced EOs from other departments into the dole offices but no-one will volunteer.
There is a slight chance though that you could be working mainly on your own dealing with fraud cases and helping the long-term unemployed find work.
My advice is to visit the office as a customer and see what you think rather than declining straight away.

Lamps

Nolanger wrote: »

Lamps the dole offices are understaffed. You will be working your ass off there because of the recession and may have to help out doing clerical officers' work. Most dole offices have seen a large jump in new people signing on this year and I'm sure Clondalkin is no exception.
It's unfair that newly assigned EOs get put there. They should be assigning experienced EOs from other departments into the dole offices but no-one will volunteer.
There is a slight chance though that you could be working mainly on your own dealing with fraud cases and helping the long-term unemployed find work.
My advice is to visit the office as a customer and see what you think rather than declining straight away.

Thanks for the info I appreciate it.

The likes of Fraud or trying to find people work would certianly intrest me, what other duties would an EO do in the dole offices? I presume I'll be told what my role is before I accept or reject it, but does anyone know of what a typical day consists of? i also presume that due to it being a public office Flexi isnt available? I'd hate not to have flexi, for me its a major perk.

im not afraid of a lot of work or doing clerical officer duties. I also like working with the public to a certain extent so ive no problem doing that. Sure after a couple of years i can always move departments? And if the DFSA is the least popular dept, would this mean that a lot of people would move out of it meaning more chance of moving up to AO and HEO?

Ive been in the Tallaght dole offcies and its a horrible place, will take a trip down to Clondalkin but presume its more of the same...

The fact of the matter is im 25 yo, did 4 years in college and am working in a crappy 24k job going nowhere at the moment. If i get in as an EO at least its the start of a career and a large salary hike for me and i'll be earnign a decent wage for a 25 yo with good benefits. Generally, is an EO position regarded as a good job?

The_Conductor

Lamps wrote: »

Thanks for the info I appreciate it.

The likes of Fraud or trying to find people work would certianly intrest me, what other duties would an EO do in the dole offices? I presume I'll be told what my role is before I accept or reject it, but does anyone know of what a typical day consists of? i also presume that due to it being a public office Flexi isnt available? I'd hate not to have flexi, for me its a major perk.

There is limited flexi in the local offices (in practice EOs and higher grades do not get to avail of it).

Lamps wrote: »

im not afraid of a lot of work or doing clerical officer duties. I also like working with the public to a certain extent so ive no problem doing that. Sure after a couple of years i can always move departments? And if the DFSA is the least popular dept, would this mean that a lot of people would move out of it meaning more chance of moving up to AO and HEO?

First of all AO is graduate recruitment- there are very very small numbers of people promoted to AO from internally ever. Any promotions that do occur tend to be focused on particular Departments (most notably the Department of Finance). Promotions that do occur are 40:60 Internal:External and all candidates have to do the same exams and go through the same procedure as though they were external candidates. If you're any good at all- you're almost better off applying for promotions totally as an external candidate- as this maximises the possibility of you being transferred elsewhere by the PAS.

Lamps wrote: »

Ive been in the Tallaght dole offcies and its a horrible place, will take a trip down to Clondalkin but presume its more of the same...

Dole offices, by their nature, can be pretty foreboding places. In practice, outside of the public areas, they actually tend to be more modern and have far better facilities than many of the larger government offices (most have been built or majorly renovated in recent years). Some government offices (not local offices) have actually been condemned- and some leases have not been renewed by the OPW on health and safety grounds. Local offices are not actually bad places to work at all.

Lamps wrote: »

The fact of the matter is im 25 yo, did 4 years in college and am working in a crappy 24k job going nowhere at the moment. If i get in as an EO at least its the start of a career and a large salary hike for me and i'll be earnign a decent wage for a 25 yo with good benefits. Generally, is an EO position regarded as a good job?

Generally an EO position is viewed as a rock solid position. Keep in mind that civil servants are always going to be in the firing line if there is a recession- so you should assume that other than your annual salary increment (roughly Eur1,100 before tax) that you will not get any additional pay increases. You do have a reasonable salary scale- it progresses to roughly 48k over a 14 year period. On average people would be an EO for perhaps 6-10 years before being promoted (you are actually ineligible to go for promotion for the initial two year period).

Benefits have generally been eroded for new starts over the past few years (pre-1995 staff have far better pension arrangements and work benefits than those since- but the superannuation and other rights of new starts have been revised downwards 4 times since 2003). In the boom times it was almost impossible to recruit civil servants- and a lot of people who did take up civil servant posts were seriously derided for it- in recessionary times, the unlikelyhood of being fired unless you are incapable of doing the job or seriously misbehave mean it does become attractive again.

Ps- flexitime is not a right in the civil service anywhere. It is a privilege determined by business needs and can be withdrawn at any time. If you have children there are work sharing practices which may be interesting- which is why the demographics in the civil service are so skewed towards women.

Nolanger

You won't be told your role before accepting the post. If fact your role could be changed a few weeks into the job.
Other duties could include: supervising one of the sections in the office such as New Claims; training officer; managing the flexi clock for the staff; deciding officer; running the debt management system. You might have more than one job to do.
A typical day is busy and full of interruptions.
Will get flexi - 8:30 to 6:30 and it's due to be extended.
After a few years you can move departments but there will be few left in Dublin.
Can't move up to AO becasue it's an open competition so will have to do an external exam like you did for the EO.
Can move up to HEO but that department tends to promote people who are there years not new entrants.
Tallaght office is actually one of the most modern dole offices in the country.
An EO position is regarded as a good job, certainly in these times.

The_Conductor

Note: the extension in the flexibands is as a result of recent action on the part of clerical staff (COs and SOs who are represented by the CPSU), and is due to be extended from 8AM to 7PM (with core periods of 10AM to 12.30PM, 2.30PM to 4PM. You clock out for lunch and are entitled to a 20 minute break in the morning and if working after 4.30PM an afternoon break too (its spelt out in the Personnel Code- a copy of which you can get on Codpearsanra)).

Use of flexitime is a privilege and is not a right- and is strictly dependent on business needs. As an EO, or a higher officer, you cannot automatically assume a right to avail of flexitime.

Re: the recent industrial action regarding flexitime- this was an action by the clerical staff, and did not involve EOs, HEOs, APs etc. There are still many issues left to be ironed out.

Lamps

I got a call today asking when i could start in social affairs, theyw ant me asap but I told them ive to work out a notice period of 6 weeks and i cant give my notice till i have the job offer in writing. And i also want a weeks holidays inbetween, so relaistically im looking at 7weeks until i start. they were being really pushy saying they want a start asap, are thye always like that?

I need to take my holidays end of and im not cutting my notice period short, my company have been brilliant to me and I respect them and dont want to leave them short. So are the they always so pushy when trying to get new people to start?

There was no mention of needing me early to train, just that thye were understaffed.....

The_Conductor

Yes- normally they do expect people to start pretty promptly, its fairly standard. If you have to work out notice- you have to work out notice. When I joined- they wanted me there the following week, and I was castigated for working my notice. When I did report for duty- my Manager had entered hospital for elective surgery and I was the most senior person in my section, along with another EO who started the week after me, for fully 6 months. I did not get any training whatsoever- and would have sank but for the 2 extremely good COs who I had.

Re: Job offer in writing- what exactly do you mean. The norm for the PAS is a letter telling you to report to Mr X at location Y at a particular time. You normally accept this by signing a slip of paper and sending it back. Ringing you to discuss it with you in advance is actually progress on their part............

lstar1

I've just been offered an EO post in the Revenue's Investigations and Prosecutions Division (IPT) in the Ashtown Gate branch. The location couldn't be more ideal and the section I'll be working in sounds very fancy, like I should have a badge or something to flash.

I've been looking it up and basically it seems that the IPT are there to find and prosecute tax evaders more efficiently than the Revenue had previously been doing so.

Does anyone have any experience with the IPT (hopefully from an employee's perspective...) and if so, have an idea what my duties an EO there would be? Also, is it a nice environment, with many people working there? I know the building's fairly big. The lady who rang me this morning said I was one of the 'lucky ones' who got that branch, but I assumed that was just because of how convenient it is to me. She was also really nice about letting me start in a month, even though I'm not working at the moment. This gives me time to get my stuff together.

Thanks.

gary the great

lstar1 wrote: »

I've just been offered an EO post in the Revenue's Investigations and Prosecutions Division (IPT) in the Ashtown Gate branch. The location couldn't be more ideal and the section I'll be working in sounds very fancy, like I should have a badge or something to flash.

I've been looking it up and basically it seems that the IPT are there to find and prosecute tax evaders more efficiently than the Revenue had previously been doing so.

Does anyone have any experience with the IPT (hopefully from an employee's perspective...) and if so, have an idea what my duties an EO there would be? Also, is it a nice environment, with many people working there? I know the building's fairly big. The lady who rang me this morning said I was one of the 'lucky ones' who got that branch, but I assumed that was just because of how convenient it is to me. She was also really nice about letting me start in a month, even though I'm not working at the moment. This gives me time to get my stuff together.

Thanks.

Fair play, that sounds like a great job, lucky you. Sound of her to allow you to start in a month to, there not so happy about that with me and I have to work out a notice!

pearcider

Got offered the Revenue Commissioners as well...currently agonizing over my decision.

The_Conductor

pearcider wrote: »

Got offered the Revenue Commissioners as well...currently agonizing over my decision.

Surely its a no-brainer?

gary the great

Are them Revenue postions in Dublin? Im raging I didnt get into Revenue....