Iron Crosses 2nd Class 1870, 1914 & 1939

danpatjoe

Von Burgdorf wrote: »

The "8"

Hi again,

I really hope you don't think I am trying to belittle your collection in any way, as I know I have not given you any good news as yet, and I apologise if it seems that way.

I had another look at the 8 marked cross and I think we have both misread it - instead of looking at the upright 8 shape in your picture, view it on the horizontal....

I think it's a good '3' marked Deumer!

The features of the cross match - it has a 'hump', the same inner corners on the beading and from what I can see of the dates, they look a match also.

Can you take some more pictures of the mark?

Here's my '3' marked Deumer to compare it with:

arnhem44

Hi Dan,you might be able to throw your expert eye over these,one of two recent purchases,this one is a Wurttemburg trio and although marked on the ring I can't make out what it is.

arnhem44

Here is the second grouping consisting of a Bavarian group of four medals,I think this one is marked WO but it's so faint it's hard to tell.

danpatjoe

arnhem44 wrote: »

Hi Dan,you might be able to throw your expert eye over these,one of two recent purchases,this one is a Wurttemburg trio and although marked on the ring I can't make out what it is.....

Hi Arnhem,

Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. Two great looking bars you have there.
As to the EK's makers, nothing jumps out at me at the moment, unfortunately, I'm not to well up on the Imperial makers so I will have to do some checking.
However, as to the 'WO' mark... I can't say I've ever heard of a 'that one, are you sure it is WO?

I'll get back to you on these....

Regards - Dan

arnhem44

Dan I'll check the information that was with them and I'll let you know.

arnhem44

Hi Dan,the listing says the four bar set has a makers mark of WO on the ring however I checked for lists of makers marks late last night for WW1 EKII and found a list which shows WO is not on it but the lists are incomplete.I'll have to invest in a jewelers eye piece.

http://www.kaisersbunker.com/stuff/1914_EK2_makers.htm

I've just had another look with the magnifying glass and it appears to be WS

Jagdtiger

Just thought that I would get my foot in the door with my Type B core 1870 2nd Class

danpatjoe

Jagdtiger wrote: »

Just thought that I would get my foot in the door with my Type B core 1870 2nd Class

Now, that's what I call a great first post!!

Hello Jagdtiger, and welcome to the forum.
That is a fantastic looking cross, thank you for posting it.
I'm in the process of searching for a B type myself, so hopefully someday soon I'll be able to post one to keep it company.

Regards - Dan

danpatjoe

arnhem44 wrote: »

.....
I've just had another look with the magnifying glass and it appears to be WS

That's odd, it's not a match to my WS, but they may have used two core types. It looks like there's even more researching to do!

Regards - Dan

arnhem44

Hi Dan the WS mark is only a possibility,the mark is so faint on the ring what looks like an O could be part of a partial S or something similar.I've tried taking photos of the mark but just cant get it in focus and tried using the scanner as high as it will go but again no good.If I do find what the mark is I'll be back again and will let you know.

arnhem44

Jagdtiger wrote: »

Just thought that I would get my foot in the door with my Type B core 1870 2nd Class

Hi Jagdtiger and welcome to the forum.A lovely cross there,hopefully there will be some more stuff to follow.

Jagdtiger

Thanks for the welcome guys,

The 1870 Iron cross is about as good as my Iron Cross collection gets, here is a group shot showing the others

arnhem44

Very nice.

danpatjoe

Jagdtiger wrote: »

Thanks for the welcome guys,

The 1870 Iron cross is about as good as my Iron Cross collection gets, here is a group shot showing the others

Nothing better than a big group of EK's photographed together.:D
You have a fine collection there covering a large portion of the EK family, it's a set I would be very proud to own. Well done.

Regards - Dan

R.Dub.Fusilier

don't know much about about this group. i bought it a couple of years ago and they are the only German medals i have.

danpatjoe

R.Dub.Fusilier wrote: »

don't know much about about this group. i bought it a couple of years ago and they are the only German medals i have.

That's a very nice bar you have there. I'm not to well up on Austro-Hungary medals, but I believe them to be:
1914 EK2, Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer (Hindenburg cross), Kriegserinnerungsmedaille, and Hungary Commemorative Medal of the World War 1.
I'm sure some of the other guys will correct me if I'm wrong on any of them.

As to the EK2 maker, I'm afraid I cannot tell from that photograph.
Again, a great looking bar.

Regards - Dan

danpatjoe

Here's my latest - yet another 1870 'A type' EK2, but this one also has the 25 year spange attached.
I love the patina on this one - it has an almost black finish to the silver, and the typical crisp detail to the sand cast core.

MEASUREMENTS:
(without ribbon and spange)

WIDTH: 41.57mm
HEIGHT: 41.64mm
WEIGHT: 16.9g












And finally, (just for the fun of it), a shot of my 3 type A 'old guys' together!

danpatjoe

Another recent addition, a 1914 'Fr' marked EK2 combined with an L/11 marked 1939 spange. These did not come together, the spange is a ground-dug Deumer (found near Gdansk) although it still looks good on display with the EK2.

danpatjoe

Hello All,

I'm delighted to show off my latest purchase - I've been looking for one of these for quite a while.

It's a 'B-type' 1870 EK2 with 25 year Jubiläumsspange. It also has attached to the ribbon a Wiederholungsspange (1914 Bar), this (the bar) is more than likely a fake, and I purchased it as such. However, it is of fantastic quality so I have kept it on the ribbon as a display piece.

Hope you all like it as much as I do!

Regards - Dan

(Apologies for the bad photos)













And my updated 1870 group as it stands at the moment:

'A type' with non-combatant ribbon
'B type' with combatant ribbon and Jubiläumsspange & Wiederholungsspange
'A type' with combatant ribbon and Jubiläumsspange
'A type' with combatant ribbon

Morlar

Those 1870's are really looking good have to say.

Jagdtiger

A friend of mine came across this a while ago in Deansgrange cemetery,

thought that you guys might be interested.


Not really an Iron Cross, but interesting all the same!

danpatjoe

Jagdtiger wrote: »

A friend of mine came across this a while ago in Deansgrange cemetery,

thought that you guys might be interested.


Not really an Iron Cross, but interesting all the same!

VERY interesting! Many thanks for that.;)

I would be willing to bet that it was not the order of the Iron Cross she received at all, but rather this:

Das preußische Verdienstkreuz für Frauen u.Jungfrauen 1870/71
The Prussian Order of Merit for women and young women.








EDIT:

Ah! I knew it!
Here she is on page 37:
"Verwitwete Frau Rentner Mary Edith Alsager, geb. Gray, zu London."

http://www.ordensmuseum.de/Ordensjournal/Ordensjournal8Mai07VerlLiJungfr.pdf

For obvious reasons, it was not the first time that this award has been confused with the Order of the Iron Cross.


I will add the full details from the headstone so that in future anyone searching for information about her will find a link to this page:

In Loving Memory of
Mary Edith Coleman
who died at Blackrock on Setember 23rd 1906

For her devoted care of the wounded soldiers
both French and German
in the Franco-Prussian War
in the year 1870
under the auspices
of the Red Cross Society
She was as Mrs. Alsager
decorated by the Emperor William
with the Order of the Iron Cross.

I wonder where her cross ended up?

danpatjoe

Here's a recent arrival, a marked 'S-W' 1914 EK2 with an unusual feature.
Unlike my other 'S-W', this one has a different core - it is one of the earliest core designs used, based on the 1870 'B-type' core.
Notice the style of the 1813 date - especially the 3.

Last two pictures show it alongside an 1870 'B-type' to show the similarities.






1870 'B-type' on the right in both photographs.

HerrScheisse

That is really an impressive collection you have built up Dan! Never seen the like!

Jim S

What is a reasonable price to pay for an EK II and an EK I (WW2) ?

danpatjoe

Jim S wrote: »

What is a reasonable price to pay for an EK II and an EK I (WW2) ?

Hi Jim,

It all depends on condition and whether they are marked or not (and also the rarity of the maker). But generally, TR EK2's fetch between €65 - €90 (rarer marks being the higher priced*, and rarer again versions like 'Round 3's or Schinkel-form EK2's can be priced between €180 - €230. The übergroße variants sell for €450 - €530.

EK1's also have the same factors involved in their prices and also if they are cased. A plain, unmarked EK1 in good condition could fetch approx. €120 - €140, while a marked version in exceptional condition would command a far better price. You can expect to pay another €100 on top of that for a good condition original case.

Regards - Dan

Note: these prices are off the top of my head, and may not be 100% accurate, but in general, they are roughly the prices I see most often.

(* Some of the more desirable maker EK2's like Juncker and some unknown makers can also be priced even higher at approx. €150 - €180.)

Jim S

Dan , thank you for the view on prices - I have not looked at EK's much since Detlev Niemann pulled the pin ....but occasional looks at some dealers site did seem to show a price hike in them.
Cheers sir
js

Jagdtiger

A bit bored so I thought that I would toss these up:D


1) 1939 Clasp to the 1914 Iron Cross First Class in case of issue.
Maker BH Mayer

2) 1939 Clasp to the 1914 Iron Cross Second Class, interesting to note that
there is still some field grey stitching on the reverse of the ribbon!

3) 1957 De-nazified Clasps to the 1914 Iron Crosses. First Class Top and
Second Class Bottom

Herr_S

I recently picked up an old love again. 33 years ago i had a small collection of German materials and iron crosses (wwi and wwii) but times let me sell them privately.
Recentely - during a trip thru Normandy - i picked up that old love again ... And it hit me strong!
Since two months now i have six wwi 2nd class and one 1st. Same with wwii i hve one of each.
Reading the threads on this forum made me see that i'm not alone. Only i know even more then i did that you hve to look very good on wht you buy ...
Seems like you are able to look at a cross and know immediate if it's ok ... Any tips?
What's a b-type btw?
Did every maker had it's one and oly way to make them?

Many questions ... I hope to find some anwsers.

HerrScheisse

Herr S?? Would you be one of my doubles by any chance :pac: