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    #32
    Rossibaby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 421 ✭✭Rossibaby


    PaulieBoy wrote: »
    Glad to see the cops are still keeping an eye on these people.
    I love their attitude, half a dozen misfits think they have the right to speak on behalf of the Irish people.
    Go stand for election, if you or any of your fellow "freedom fighters" got more than a couple of votes id be surprised !!

    I'll never forget the idiot I spotted a while back, he had tattoos all over his arms, all "Eire" and "freedom fighter" related ones. He also had a truck load of similar stickers all over the car.
    Oh, and a load of "Everton FC" stickers and flags to boot !!!

    Muppets :-)


    alot of hoods get these tatoos because they think it is cool,the odds are if someone has IRA or anything like that as a visable tatoo then they are not members.if they were it would easily be used as evidence in court etc so dont judge by dirty hoods who would shout up the 'ra then a few hours later burn out a car.

    conorirl i couldn't really be bothered wasting my team with the feedbac,would it even make a difference? i wanted your opinion on what he said.

    the 32csm do not claim to speak for the people of ireland,it's tiresome correcting people on the policies of organisations,if you're going to say something please don't just assume things and actually look it up like conor did with teh 32s not being a party earlier!!

    yes indeed i'm an IRSP supporter and youth movement supporter too[off topic really so i'll leave it at that]

    my point conor about the terrorist remarks is that when people hear republican they automatically call them terrorists are paint them with that brush in some manner...what i'm saying is that can people not see that one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter?i accept people can disagree of course and thats fine, but stone cold calling republicans murdering criminals just doesn't fly with me.can people not see republicans believe in what they do and don't do it for their own gain?they sacrifice alot,for instance suffering for years in gaol for your political beliefs. people should respect republican views, thats freedom of speech after all and stop coming out with the same old things,especially without knowledge of republicanism themselves except what they see from biased tv shows and media


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    #33
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Rossibaby: final warning. Keep your martyrdom out of this forum. If you couldn't be bothered taking it to Feedback, don't bother taking it here.

    Don't reply to this post, and don't bother PMing me either, I've made myself quite clear more than once.


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    #34
    gandalf
    Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    Freedom of speech and what about all the innocents who will never speak again because "freedom fighters" of all ilks decided they were viable targets.

    You either look backwards with minority groups like the 32csm or you look forward and try and have a country that is all embracing no matter what people origins and traditions are. I for one know which path I will take.

    This whole thread reminds me of Monty Pythons life of Brian. I'm just waiting for Rossibaby to say "What did the British ever do for us....".


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    #35
    daithicarr
    Registered Users Posts: 425 ✭✭daithicarr


    I dont agree with that line what did the British ever do for us. having studyed history, Ireland was left a lot worse off than before England came. Just imagine what ireland would have been like without all the famines, wars m economic and political oppression.

    But its time to forgive and forget. violence is not nessicary when everyone agrees to solve a problem through democracy. While the majority in northern Ireland want to remain part of Britain, we should respect there wishs, no matter what under hand tactics were used to create that state.
    Reunion should and will only come about at the democratic desision of the Entire ireland north and south, not one without the other.


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    #36
    Lemming
    Registered Users Posts: 14,148 ✭✭✭✭Lemming


    daithicarr wrote: »
    I dont agree with that line what did the British ever do for us. having studyed history, Ireland was left a lot worse off than before England came. Just imagine what ireland would have been like without all the famines, wars m economic and political oppression.

    Erm .... the famines would have happened anyway and did so not because some evil-machavellian-imperialist-new-world-order-filthy-captalist-PEEEG scheming but because the Irish diet was heavily reliant on potatos. That the British empire did not help matters is a matter of fact, but the famine was well and truly underway even without any lack of aid.


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    #37
    daithicarr
    Registered Users Posts: 425 ✭✭daithicarr


    Well it can easily be argued that the famine was aproduct of the land ssytem that was imposed by the new colonial rulers. large amounts of food were still produced other than potatoe, but it all had to go for rent , it was called rack renting, a very different system from what was in England. there was not just one famine but many, a few caused by war. the potatoe crop failed all over europe, but it only effected Ireland and Scotland heavily as they were under a similar system. Before the act of union as well ireland was the 10th Richest country in the world, but the wealth was concentrated in the planter class. Ireland wasnt quite the backwards basket case it is often portrayed as being, especially by pro british viewpoints. but the point is there in not point being bitter over what could have been, these events shaped who we are today. there is no point holding grudges needlessly, no point shedding blood over it.

    Maybe we shouldnt forget what happened, but we can definitly forgive it and move on. today most english people i have met have said that Northern ireland should be part of Ireland if the majority wish it and so do there goverment. these Minority republican groups make there own bad image. why dont the INLA give up there guns or the CIRA or the PIRA, while they maintain an armed force, outside the wish of the vast majority of the people, the goverment should continue to keep an eye on them.


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    #38
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Rossibaby wrote: »
    but calling republican terrorists is not debating,its insulting.
    Not all Republicans are terrorists, that is true. But, based on what I have read on this website over the last couple of years or so, individuals who identify themselves as Republican generally condone the actions of the IRA or some other paramilitary group. You have done precisely the same thing with this next statement:
    Rossibaby wrote: »
    what i'm saying is that can people not see that one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter?
    By "one man", I presume you mean "innocent civilian blown to pieces by murdering thugs" and by "another man", I presume you mean "terrorist/terrorist sympathiser"?


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    #39
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Rossibaby wrote: »
    the 32csm don't support those things?what are you talking about:o the 32csm and the RIRA are seperate...they are not like the provos and sinn fein even...please people educate yourselves before offering your expert opinion

    ??? I didn't say that they did - I said that they support organisations that agree with doing those things....in fact, later on in the thread you said yourself that:
    Rossibaby wrote: »
    the 32csm are linked to an active republican militant organisation

    So I'll stand over my statement - I said they support organisations that do those things; you actually went one further and said that they are linked to them. So I guess I'm now even more educated....I didn't say [because I didn't know] anything about links or overlaps between the two, but now I do. Thanks!

    As for the forums (and by inference, me and others) being "West Brit"....please leave the insults and inflammatory comments out of it - I am nothing of the sort.
    Not all Republicans are terrorists, that is true. But, based on what I have read on this website over the last couple of years or so, individuals who identify themselves as Republican generally condone the actions of the IRA or some other paramilitary group.

    In this area, I will agree to play devil's advocate; there are probably lots of people who are on some level "Republican" but want nothing to do with the organisations that have hijacked the term, therefore they avoid describing themselves as that for fear of people thinking of them as terrorists and bigoted thugs.

    So - in general - the only ones left using the term to describe themselves are the ones who are extremists who are, while maybe not actively involved in bombings, murder and robberies, at least support or condone those illegal activities.

    It's probably a bit like a Celtic jersey or something at this stage; woe betide an actual Celtic fan wearing one in town because he'll probably be viewed as one of the scobes who have latched on to it as a uniform for drinking, rioting and singing [?] crap, drunken rebel songs.....


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    #40
    Rossibaby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 421 ✭✭Rossibaby


    the people who wear celtic shirts and sing the fields of athenry while putting in teh words sinn fein and ira are a disgrace...i hate it mroe than anything...the song has been butchered over the years,it is one of the most famous rebel tunes in ireland yet has been hijacked by sports fans,even liverpool use the tune and change the words!

    republicanism is not a terrorist cause and people should not feel ashamed to call themselves one.it is an ideology and you may disagree with methods used in the past, but that is your choice.it doesnt make it right or wrong its just opinion


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    #41
    Colonel Sanders
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,669 ✭✭✭Colonel Sanders


    Rossibaby wrote: »
    ...our armed wing are on ceasefire for over ten years now,this is because we believe the people don't want armed resistance...

    By 'armed wing' I assume you mean the INLA? Organised criminals masquerading as militant republicans IMO (and I'm sure most right thinking people would agree)


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    #42
    Sand
    Registered Users Posts: 12,588 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    Id bloody well hope the British and Irish security forces are keeping an eye/ear on the fanatics tbh. They took their eye of the ball before and Omagh happened.

    The sense of outrage and persecution is hilarious though. As someone has already said, what sort of country is it when blood drenched fanatics cant plot violence and bombings in privacy?


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    #43
    Mucco
    Registered Users Posts: 714 ✭✭✭Mucco


    Lemming wrote: »
    Erm .... the famines would have happened anyway and did so not because some evil-machavellian-imperialist-new-world-order-filthy-captalist-PEEEG scheming but because the Irish diet was heavily reliant on potatos.

    Surely the famine is the fault of the British, if Sir Walter Raleigh hadn't brought the potato back from S America, the Irish wouldn't have become dependent on it :)


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    #44
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    Rossibaby wrote: »
    A sophisticated bugging and tracking device has been unearthed in the vehicle of a member of the Dublin 32 County Sovereignty Movement.

    Christ - One can only hope that it was designed to start recording when anything actually subversive was said.

    Can you imagine the poor rookie cop who drew the short straw and had to listen to the interminable anti-brit bellyaching?

    Probably like modding politics. :D


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    #45
    Rossibaby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 421 ✭✭Rossibaby


    Colonel Sanders wrote: »
    By 'armed wing' I assume you mean the INLA? Organised criminals masquerading as militant republicans IMO (and I'm sure most right thinking people would agree)

    and you form ths opinion how exactly? do you now any INLA members?
    no members have ever been convicted of a drug offense,yet you would choose to believe the word of rags like the sunday world who's only task is to use sensationalism to sell papers...if you know of any members who are involved in criminal activity then report it to the movement...pm me if you want the address...otherwise keep your slander to yourself,there is no proof.although what would people here care about facts,their senseless opinion counts as fact:o


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    #46
    Colonel Sanders
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,669 ✭✭✭Colonel Sanders


    Rossibaby wrote: »
    and you form ths opinion how exactly? do you now any INLA members?
    no members have ever been convicted of a drug offense,yet you would choose to believe the word of rags like the sunday world who's only task is to use sensationalism to sell papers...if you know of any members who are involved in criminal activity then report it to the movement...pm me if you want the address...otherwise keep your slander to yourself,there is no proof.although what would people here care about facts,their senseless opinion counts as fact:o

    The antics of the likes of Declan Duffy, Dessie O'Hare and an offshoot like the IPLO have most certainly brought the dream of a 32 County Socialist republic so much nearer.


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    #47
    Rossibaby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 421 ✭✭Rossibaby


    Colonel Sanders wrote: »
    The antics of the likes of Declan Duffy, Dessie O'Hare and an offshoot like the IPLO have most certainly brought the dream of a 32 County Socialist republic so much nearer.

    what are you talking about the iplo for.
    dessie did a bad thing,and was expelled from the movement for it,something the inla said was terrible.as dessie said himself,he was a normal guy and the struggle brought out the desperate side of him.he is still a very,very intelligent man and actually very polite,as is declan who isa true socialist and good man.
    just cause the papers call these men nutcases doesn't make it true,if the media is your source,disregard everything.


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    #48
    Colonel Sanders
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,669 ✭✭✭Colonel Sanders


    Rossibaby wrote: »
    what are you talking about the iplo for.
    dessie did a bad thing,and was expelled from the movement for it,something the inla said was terrible.as dessie said himself,he was a normal guy and the struggle brought out the desperate side of him.he is still a very,very intelligent man and actually very polite,as is declan who isa true socialist and good man.
    just cause the papers call these men nutcases doesn't make it true,if the media is your source,disregard everything.

    No offence but I can't imagine me ever trying to defend a man like O'Hare who's gang hacked fingers off an innocent man they kidnapped. As for Declan Duffy, I'll have to take your word on his great character but incidents like this that led to his imprisonment smack of gangsterism and not striking a blow for socialism to me.

    Ditto the massacre of innocent old men at Darkley, slaughtering innocent women in the Droppin' Well Inn bombing and the killing of 12 INLA and IPLO members in fratricidal violence (only one of a number of INLA turf wars) etc etc. Hence my contempt for IRSP/INLA and any of their apologists

    EDIT: apologises for going off topic but if anyone wants to start a thread defending the INLA or other such gangster scum then we can talk again there.


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    #49
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,022 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Rossibaby wrote: »
    alot of hoods get these tatoos because they think it is cool,the odds are if someone has IRA or anything like that as a visable tatoo then they are not members.if they were it would easily be used as evidence in court etc so dont judge by dirty hoods who would shout up the 'ra then a few hours later burn out a car.
    All the same. A criminal is a criminal. The IRA have been banned for decades. Being a member is a criminal offence, much like erm, buring out a car.
    Rossibaby wrote: »
    yes indeed i'm an IRSP supporter and youth movement supporter too
    Sounds like fun.
    Rossibaby wrote: »
    people should respect republican views, thats freedom of speech after all and stop coming out with the same old things,especially without knowledge of republicanism themselves except what they see from biased tv shows and media
    Republicanism in this country is responsible for a lot more bad things than good things, so people naturally recoil from people like yourself. I'm sure you wouldn't murder anyone but many republicans down the years have and mud sticks.


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    #50
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    daithicarr wrote: »
    Well it can easily be argued that the famine was aproduct of the land system that was imposed by the new colonial rulers.

    Colonial rulers? this 'New Fashion' to look upon Ireland as an ex-colony irks me, Ireland never was a 'Colony' in the true sence of the meaning.

    It was actually Ireland (North & South) who created the 'Colonies' in far flung places across the globe (along with the English, Scots, & Welsh)..

    Sorry to go off topic, but this 'New' Colonial thing needs to be addressed as it seems to be invading & pervading every historical topic that involves Ireland, and I just hate non factual 'Retro-History'.


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    #51
    Rossibaby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 421 ✭✭Rossibaby


    murphaph wrote: »
    All the same. A criminal is a criminal. The IRA have been banned for decades. Being a member is a criminal offence, much like erm, buring out a car.


    Sounds like fun.


    Republicanism in this country is responsible for a lot more bad things than good things, so people naturally recoil from people like yourself. I'm sure you wouldn't murder anyone but many republicans down the years have and mud sticks.


    funny i thought it was the british that caused the problems in ireland:D
    yup i know of all the stigma attached to being a republican these days.people should remember that republicanism did not begin with the provos.i was at a meeting last week and was asked to do an small interview that the governemnt was going to place on youtube.the lady came over as im quite young in political terms and wanted the views of up and coming political people in the area...she asked me what party i was and i told her...its fair to say she was taken aback a bit:rolleyes:
    republicans are not terrorists,if you thin so that is your opinion and it should be respected...what i dont like is when the republican side such as the inla are called drug dealing criminals...no member was EVER convicted of a drug offense..this is FACT...people here use personal opinion and sensationalism instead of fact


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    #52
    Rossibaby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 421 ✭✭Rossibaby


    Colonel Sanders wrote: »
    No offence but I can't imagine me ever trying to defend a man like O'Hare who's gang hacked fingers off an innocent man they kidnapped. As for Declan Duffy, I'll have to take your word on his great character but incidents like this that led to his imprisonment smack of gangsterism and not striking a blow for socialism to me.

    Ditto the massacre of innocent old men at Darkley, slaughtering innocent women in the Droppin' Well Inn bombing and the killing of 12 INLA and IPLO members in fratricidal violence (only one of a number of INLA turf wars) etc etc. Hence my contempt for IRSP/INLA and any of their apologists

    EDIT: apologises for going off topic but if anyone wants to start a thread defending the INLA or other such gangster scum then we can talk again there.

    first of all no1 in the republican socialist movement condoned what dessie did and punished him severely,he was put out of the movement...the inla and irsp acknowledged it was a terrible incident and not on...but i ask you,is there perfect people in every large group..are FF corrupt,are our police force corrupt and have drug dealers amongst them...i would say yes!

    with regard to declan and the incident he was jailed for...a supporter of the movement and his father were threatened by a major drug gang in dublin...he approached an INLA member for help as he feared for his fathers and his own life...the INLA stepped in and threatened these dealers and stopped them attacking the family...the lay in wait...ON THE FAMILIES PROPERTY for the gang to attack,which they did...they abducted these gangsters and intimidated them with psychological things such as threatening violence and getting them into a disorientated state...then the gang leader and a large group of his cronies came and a fight ensued in with an INLA man was killed...

    its not an ideal situation,but would you have preferred these men were killed for standing up to gangsters.or to tell the cops who could do nothing


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    #53
    Colonel Sanders
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,669 ✭✭✭Colonel Sanders


    Rossibaby wrote: »
    what i dont like is when the republican side such as the inla are called drug dealing criminals...no member was EVER convicted of a drug offense..this is FACT...people here use personal opinion and sensationalism instead of fact

    I don't recall anyone in this thread saying the INLA were drug dealers. I called them criminals (even ignoring events such as Darkley or the events that led to the arrest of Declan Duffy and Dessie O'Hare, the INLA is an illegal organisation, therefore any member is committing a criminal offence) and stand by that comment


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    #54
    Colonel Sanders
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,669 ✭✭✭Colonel Sanders


    Rossibaby wrote: »
    with regard to declan and the incident he was jailed for...a supporter of the movement and his father were threatened by a major drug gang in dublin...he approached an INLA member for help as he feared for his fathers and his own life...the INLA stepped in and threatened these dealers and stopped them attacking the family...the lay in wait...ON THE FAMILIES PROPERTY for the gang to attack,which they did...they abducted these gangsters and intimidated them with psychological things such as threatening violence and getting them into a disorientated state...then the gang leader and a large group of his cronies came and a fight ensued in with an INLA man was killed...

    Yet again, no offence, but this sounds like at best vigilante activity (which is illegal) and at worst a gangster turf war. Why was the 'supporter of the movement' threatened by a drug dealer? Surely that person had to have some dealings with a drug dealer to be threatened by one

    EDIT: quote from the article "The court heard that the two men were part of a gang that stripped, beat, tortured and interrogated another gang of men in a factory in Ballymount on 6 October, 1999. Mr Justice Diarmuid O'Donovan said that this was a vicious attack and that Mr Duffy, who was in charge of the gang, had wanted to shoot one of the men, but was stopped by another man." Sounds like a pleasant character alright.......


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    #55
    duggie-89
    Closed Accounts Posts: 168 ✭✭duggie-89


    ArthurF wrote: »
    Colonial rulers? this 'New Fashion' to look upon Ireland as an ex-colony irks me, Ireland never was a 'Colony' in the true sence of the meaning.

    It was actually Ireland (North & South) who created the 'Colonies' in far flung places across the globe (along with the English, Scots, & Welsh)..

    Sorry to go off topic, but this 'New' Colonial thing needs to be addressed as it seems to be invading & pervading every historical topic that involves Ireland, and I just hate non factual 'Retro-History'.

    sorry to pull you up on this ArthurF but for long periods ireland was a conoly in all but name. from the very first landings by the english the land and natives were abused and used for cheap labour and resources.

    then as time went on the population ie the majority couldn't vote ie catholics didn't get the vote for along time which allowed the control of the country to fall into the hands of the mainly british settlers who were protestant and could vote.

    and just for a note when ever i mention colony it is in regard to the general attitude and actions that occured in ireland at the time.

    so maybe its fair to say that ireland was colony-like but not 100% as it did have some say in the uk but limited and bias


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    #56
    Rossibaby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 421 ✭✭Rossibaby


    republicans are not free staters and we don't acknowledge it's authority


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    #57
    duggie-89
    Closed Accounts Posts: 168 ✭✭duggie-89


    Colonel Sanders wrote: »
    I don't recall anyone in this thread saying the INLA were drug dealers. I called them criminals (even ignoring events such as Darkley or the events that led to the arrest of Declan Duffy and Dessie O'Hare, the INLA is an illegal organisation, therefore any member is committing a criminal offence) and stand by that comment

    the IRA in the early days where an illegal organistion (ie pre 1921) so would you call them all criminals???

    i believe that the INLA have a right to exist as a political force but whenever it is large linked to purly criminal actitives then it has to be question is it really a political force or just a political force that has lost its politics somewhere.


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    #58
    Rossibaby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 421 ✭✭Rossibaby


    Colonel Sanders wrote: »
    Yet again, no offence, but this sounds like at best vigilante activity at worst a gangster turf war. Why was the 'supporter of the movement' threatened by a drug dealer? Surely that person had to have some dealings with a drug dealer to be threatened by one

    the INLA do not claim to be an answer to policing...some exceptions have been made in the past when major criminals were dealt with...to be honest this is not to be vigilante's,its more to gain support from the people in the communities these people destroy and for propaganda...the only way INLA will resort to armed action at the moment is in defence of it's members and members of the IRSP.a serious threat that is and not personal disputes...


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    #59
    duggie-89
    Closed Accounts Posts: 168 ✭✭duggie-89


    Rossibaby wrote: »
    republicans are not free staters and we don't acknowledge it's authority

    i as a republican accept that the free state has the right to repesent the people, look at all the previous elections since where the people have voted in and taken part in them.

    but republicans and free staters are two different things


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    #60
    Rossibaby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 421 ✭✭Rossibaby


    duggie-89 wrote: »
    i as a republican accept that the free state has the right to repesent the people, look at all the previous elections since where the people have voted in and taken part in them.

    but republicans and free staters are two different things

    i will never stomach an irish system that criminalises and abandons its fellow irishmen


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    #61
    duggie-89
    Closed Accounts Posts: 168 ✭✭duggie-89


    Rossibaby wrote: »
    i will never stomach an irish system that criminalises and abandons its fellow irishmen

    i agree, the souths treatment of many republicans both past and present is a joke but i also realise that my best chances of changing that is to get involved with dealing with them and engaging with them!!! i am willing to sallow my pride and do the dirty work so that the greater good can come from it and to me that means accepting the south's gov and stomaching my pride and belief's on the issuse, ie letting someone insult my principles.

    THE ENDS JUSTFIES THE MEANS

    violence hasn't in the past been enough to change the system esp now as the acceptance of violence has reduced hugely.


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