Pamela Izevbekhai - Should She Be Deported?

djpbarry · 28-11-2008 10:48pm

donegalfella wrote: »

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I haven't had a chance to read the document yet. What is it you would like me to reply to?

djpbarry · 28-11-2008 10:50pm

HollyB wrote: »

What percentage have their refugee status granted on a second or subsequent appeal, when their initial application and their first appeal have failed?

I don't know, but even if one genuine refugee slips through the net, that's one too many in my opinion.

HollyB wrote: »

Probably not, but the timeframe for an average case to be decided should certainly be shortened.

How? By cutting back on due process?

djpbarry · 28-11-2008 10:53pm

rkeane wrote: »

Just imagine what the state has spent on legal costs in this case. The government have rightfully been accused of wasting public money on other matters...

If money was the sole concern, then, hypothetically speaking, the thing to do would be to allow her to work here to make a tax contribution, no?

Permabear · 28-11-2008 11:48pm

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Permabear · 28-11-2008 11:49pm

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asdasd · 28-11-2008 11:55pm

If money was the sole concern, then, hypothetically speaking, the thing to do would be to allow her to work here to make a tax contribution, no?

No. It is almost like we have to paint by numbers with you guys.

so lets spell it out. if she is not an asylum seeker she is an economic immigrant

And those of us who oppose the insane Open Borders fanatics, and the Closed Borders fanatics think that immigration should happen but be controlled. If we let asylum seekers work on application then the entire world could claim asylum here, disapear into the black ( or legitimate) market economy since they can work, push wages down etc.

so lets give up that argument, shall we?

Permabear · 28-11-2008 11:59pm

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rkeane · 29-11-2008 1:00am

djpbarry wrote: »

If money was the sole concern, then, hypothetically speaking, the thing to do would be to allow her to work here to make a tax contribution, no?

Not a chance, the lady came here to seek asylum....asylum seekers can't work. Money is a big issue here, the government must be seen to deport people who have failed the process at all stages. Sorry I'm no open borders fanatic.

marcsignal · 29-11-2008 8:43pm

T runner wrote: »

The courts believe this too obviously.....

really ? if they obviously believe her, how come she's been turned down so ?

T runner wrote: »

So Why do you think she is bogus?

http://www.tribune.ie/news/article/2008/aug/10/exposed-the-myth-of-irelands-liberal-asylum-policy/

an extract from the article in question
....................................................................................................

In many cases, African nationals have told authorities how they could face execution, imprisonment or genital mutilation, but they simply are not being believed. Of 1,513 applications from Nigeria in the past 18 months, fewer than 18 have been successful.

The Nigerian embassy in Dublin said the figures were unsurprising, as the vast majority of asylum seekers from their country were in fact "economic migrants".

A spokesman said: "This low success rate is to be expected precisely because our country is not on any UN danger list. It is not a conflict zone; there are no disturbances within the country. We are running a democratic country".
..................................................................................................

Why do i think she is bogus?

Call it a gut feeling.....

rkeane · 29-11-2008 9:29pm

marcsignal wrote: »

really ? if they obviously believe her, how come she's been turned down so ?

http://www.tribune.ie/news/article/2008/aug/10/exposed-the-myth-of-irelands-liberal-asylum-policy/

an extract from the article in question
....................................................................................................

In many cases, African nationals have told authorities how they could face execution, imprisonment or genital mutilation, but they simply are not being believed. Of 1,513 applications from Nigeria in the past 18 months, fewer than 18 have been successful.

The Nigerian embassy in Dublin said the figures were unsurprising, as the vast majority of asylum seekers from their country were in fact "economic migrants".

A spokesman said: "This low success rate is to be expected precisely because our country is not on any UN danger list. It is not a conflict zone; there are no disturbances within the country. We are running a democratic country".
..................................................................................................

Why do i think she is bogus?

Call it a gut feeling.....

Good Post

T runner · 29-11-2008 11:38pm

donegalfella wrote: »

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A bogus refugee slipping through the net may well involve the loss of revenue.
A genuine refugee slipping through the net will probably involve the loss of life.

rkeane · 30-11-2008 12:24am

T runner wrote: »

A bogus refugee slipping through the net may well involve the loss of revenue.
A genuine refugee slipping through the net will probably involve the loss of life.

Can you tell me how many Nigerians we have deported to their deaths? I think we all know the answer - none!

T runner · 30-11-2008 1:26am

marcsignal wrote: »

really ? if they obviously believe her, how come she's been turned down so ?

My original quote below in context. It means that courts use character references from witnesses who know the character. (and not for example from random individuals with gut feelings about the person)

A useful way of determining someones character and genuinness is by assessing the network of people, friends and support around her. I would put far greater trust in someones character reference who actually knows her.
It doesnt of course conclusively prove that she is genuine but is a very strong indication that she is.

The courts believe this too obviously. The question for them is whether there is sufficient danger for her family in Nigeria. I dont think there is a doubt that she believes it and i dont think the court believes her to be bogus. Being refused refugee status means only the court thinks there is insufficient danger for her not that the courts believe her to be bogus or not genuine in her fear.

A spokesman said: "This low success rate is to be expected precisely because our country is not on any UN danger list. It is not a conflict zone; there are no disturbances within the country. We are running a democratic country".

This is the standard fare you'd expect from an embassy spokesman and a representative of the Nigerian government. Not surprisingly he didn't mention the fact that over 60% of the female population of Nigeria have had FGM inflicted upon them. SOURCE

Interesting that he relates the extremely low success rate of Asylum seekers to the fact that Nigeria is not on a UN danger list.

Why do i think she is bogus?

Call it a gut feeling.....

Bogus and being rejected for refugee status are two distinct things.

Permabear · 30-11-2008 1:35am

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T runner · 30-11-2008 1:56am

rkeane wrote: »

Can you tell me how many Nigerians we have deported to their deaths? I think we all know the answer - none!

I very much doubt it. Can you answer me this? What proportion of refugees in Ireland were granted their status on the grounds of FGM?
If the answer to this is very low then I would suspect that the proportion of people deported to FGM/bleeding to death etc in countries (like Nigeria) where FGM is prevalent will be relatively high.

T runner · 30-11-2008 1:59am

donegalfella wrote: »

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Why dont you give us your explanation?

marcsignal · 30-11-2008 3:32am

donegalfella wrote: »

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T runner wrote: »

Why dont you give us your explanation?

well i guess anything's possible :pac:

T runner · 30-11-2008 4:55am

A little about Rotimi Adebari:

In British politics, many Black people have achieved great results due to their hard work ad dedication, and have gone on to earn national and international recognition. Diane Abbott is one; she became the first Black female to be elected in the House of Commons. In Tottenham, Bernie Grant held the constituency for some time until his death in 2000. The youngest ever MP, was David Lammy, a Black law graduate who was educated and has worked in America. He has held that seat ever since, and went on to become a junior minister under Tony Blair. Oona King is another.
What makes Adebari’s case so unique is the fact that the politicians I have described above have managed to break into the UK political system because their African and immigrant supporters voted them into office. In Portlaoise, there was no African community big enough to elect him councillor, he was elected on merit primarily by the local white population.
He was elected on foot of his dedicated and selfless work in the local community. He is probably the most famous African born black man in Ireland.

When it was known that he might be returning for the funeral of his wifes father. His Royal Highness King Alaycluwa Oba Oluwarotimi Fagbenro and representatives of the Ogun State Government and the town Chief Lere Bamgboye wished to hold a ceremony in his honour on his achievement of becoming Mayor of Portlaoise. Over 1,000 people attended the ceremony, which was held in the town’s market square.

Local groups made moves to persuade Adebari to come home to contest the 2011 Governorship election in the State as a result of his new status as a mayor in Ireland.

A reasonable assumption might be that due to his massively changed status at home (as a results of his achievements in Ireland), he was not any more vulnerable to persecution.

Is there any chance that we can put an end to these endless attacks and innuendo against Nigerians, generic and individual?

donegalfella
So, someone who allegedly fled Nigeria in fear of his life returns seven years later to a hero's welcome? Explanations, anyone?

marcsignal wrote: »

well i guess anything's possible :pac:

Permabear · 30-11-2008 2:13pm

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Permabear · 30-11-2008 2:54pm

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lego · 30-11-2008 4:03pm

Stop trying to glorify a Fraudster. Rotimi Adebari is an "Irish Born Child" Scammer. Like most IBC scammers he stalled for time by making an unfounded asylum claim until his partner had an "Irish Born Child", thus exploiting a loophole in the Irish constitution and allowing him to remain.

He lived illegally in France and the UK for a few years but couldn't find a way to scam their immigration systems. Then he heard about the "Irish Born Child" scam, licked his lips with relish and ran off to Ireland knowing that our ridiculous immigration system in Ireland would give an illegal immigrant permission to remain on the basis of the IBC loophole.

He must be very proud of himself that he managed to get on the road to an Irish EU passport within 5 years of residing here by exploiting a loophole in our constitution.

http://archives.tcm.ie/laoisnationalist/2007/11/08/story27039.asp

http://archives.tcm.ie/laoisnationalist/2007/08/30/story26618.asp

http://www.irelandlogue.com/news/first-black-irish-mayor-wanted-back-in-nigeria.html

http://hiberniagirl.blogspot.com/2007/12/rotimi-adebari-update-questions-remain.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotimi_Adebari

CCCP^ · 30-11-2008 4:30pm

I'm from Portlaoise. I don't know the whole story behind Mr. Adebari, that he supposedly worked in the London Underground for a few years before coming over. There are alot of rumours about that, but I don't really care. He wasn't elected by the people of Portlaoise. The local Council selected him afaik. That doesn't mean he isn't popular in Portlaoise, he is hugely popular. Probably run for the Dail someday. I'd vote from him

Permabear · 30-11-2008 4:38pm

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rkeane · 30-11-2008 4:40pm

getting a bit off topic there, we are talking about another economic migrant..... Pamela Izevbekhai.

Permabear · 30-11-2008 7:15pm

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T runner · 30-11-2008 7:21pm

CCCP^ wrote: »

I'm from Portlaoise. I don't know the whole story behind Mr. Adebari, that he supposedly worked in the London Underground for a few years before coming over. There are alot of rumours about that, but I don't really care. He wasn't elected by the people of Portlaoise. The local Council selected him afaik. That doesn't mean he isn't popular in Portlaoise, he is hugely popular. Probably run for the Dail someday. I'd vote from him

Hi CCCP. Ive read great things about him. I read that he was elected to the council by locals but was elected Mayor by the council getting 6 out of 9 votes (defeating a FF opponent).

T runner · 30-11-2008 8:02pm

donegalfella wrote: »

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No you are incorrect.
I draw you attention to the 1951 Geneva convention you have recently quoted. "a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality"
In my opinion, that would give 3 Nigerian females legitimate grounds at the moment.

I notice that in earlier posts you complained about people using "emotive"
arguments against deportation, yet you are not shy about using the fear mongering "floodgates will open" argument for deportation.

Can you comment on the probability of FGM resulting in death by blood loss?

I cant give you a proportion but I can give you the following based on WHO reports.
(This does not describe women who did as a direct result of blood loss after FGM as Izevbekhai's daughter did.

......women with FGM were more likely to have a caesarean section and post-pastum blood loss of 500 ml greater than women without FGM among other findings...

.....would be joining the league of other women that died as a result of complications during child birth, which recent research by World Health Organisation (WHO) attributed to Female Genital Mutilation (FGM).

...... in their findings they discovered that women with FGM are more likely to stay longer in the hospital beyond three days after delivery, have still births or lose their baby to death within seven days after delivery as well as have babies with low birth weight.

HollyB · 30-11-2008 8:07pm

donegalfella wrote: »

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Bogus would suggest that somebody lied when they made his or her application for asylum, or perhaps that they made their claim for asylum on grounds that they knew would be ineligible, intending to drag their case out as long as they possibly could in the hopes that they would be granted leave to remain if they fought against deportation long enough, or if they planned to disappear once their application failed, so that they could not be deported or (prior to the Citizenship Referendum) until they could have a child in Ireland and claim the right to remain in the country on the grounds of the child's Irish citizenship, etc.

An asylum seeker who made an honest claim for asylum in good faith, believing that they had genuine grounds and who cooperated fully with immigration authorities at all times is another story. It wouldn't be fair to call them "bogus".

T runner · 30-11-2008 8:20pm

lego wrote: »

Stop trying to glorify a Fraudster. Rotimi Adebari is an "Irish Born Child" Scammer. Like most IBC scammers he stalled for time by making an unfounded asylum claim until his partner had an "Irish Born Child", thus exploiting a loophole in the Irish constitution and allowing him to remain.

He lived illegally in France and the UK for a few years but couldn't find a way to scam their immigration systems. Then he heard about the "Irish Born Child" scam, licked his lips with relish and ran off to Ireland knowing that our ridiculous immigration system in Ireland would give an illegal immigrant permission to remain on the basis of the IBC loophole.

He must be very proud of himself that he managed to get on the road to an Irish EU passport within 5 years of residing here by exploiting a loophole in our constitution.

http://archives.tcm.ie/laoisnationalist/2007/11/08/story27039.asp

http://archives.tcm.ie/laoisnationalist/2007/08/30/story26618.asp

http://www.irelandlogue.com/news/first-black-irish-mayor-wanted-back-in-nigeria.html

http://hiberniagirl.blogspot.com/2007/12/rotimi-adebari-update-questions-remain.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotimi_Adebari

Your allegations are untrue and unsubstantiated.
By the way, prejudiced posts from other forums arent a good place to gather evidence. More likely to find more unsubstantiated rubbish there.

T runner · 30-11-2008 8:36pm

HollyB wrote: »

Bogus would suggest that somebody lied when they made his or her application for asylum, or perhaps that they made their claim for asylum on grounds that they knew would be ineligible, intending to drag their case out as long as they possibly could in the hopes that they would be granted leave to remain if they fought against deportation long enough, or if they planned to disappear once their application failed, so that they could not be deported or (prior to the Citizenship Referendum) until they could have a child in Ireland and claim the right to remain in the country on the grounds of the child's Irish citizenship, etc.

An asylum seeker who made an honest claim for asylum in good faith, believing that they had genuine grounds and who cooperated fully with immigration authorities at all times is another story. It wouldn't be fair to call them "bogus".

This is true, of couse. In the memos from Pamela Izevbekhai's appeal, I believe the judge accepted her account of her family history and that she truly believed her family to be in jeopardy should they return to Nigeria.
Anyone who has read this memo would know this.

Yes, but the point is not whether Adebari is popular in Portlaoise, or whether Ms. Izebvekhai has the support of the people of Sligo. The point is whether they submitted well-founded applications for asylum in Ireland, or whether they were/are just trying to game the system.

Explanations please?

Pamela Izevbekhai - Should She Be Deported?

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