Pamela Izevbekhai - Should She Be Deported?

T runner

opo wrote: »

So that person subjected to FGM post deportation goes by the name of?

And those people not subjected to FGM go by the name of?

Your best bet is to send a letter to the Department of justice and ask them that question. They are supposed to keep a track of Nigerian returnees to keep them out of harms way. If they are keeping track then you will get an answer and it may be the one your looking for. If they are not keeping track then you wont get any names but you can assume human rights violations (inc FGM) for some of those people.

Any response on the State Protections question? If there were de facto state protections in Nigeria surely it would also back up your claims that returnees are safe? Any evidence for it?

ParkRunner

T runner wrote: »

Any response on the State Protections question? If there were de facto state protections in Nigeria surely it would also back up your claims that returnees are safe? Any evidence for it?

See above quote from Home Office report

opo

T runner wrote: »

And those people not subjected to FGM go by the name of?

Your best bet is to send a letter to the Department of justice and ask them that question. They are supposed to keep a track of Nigerian returnees to keep them out of harms way. If they are keeping track then you will get an answer and it may be the one your looking for. If they are not keeping track then you wont get any names but you can assume human rights violations (inc FGM) for some of those people.

Any response on the State Protections question? If there were de facto state protections in Nigeria surely it would also back up your claims that returnees are safe? Any evidence for it?

I think it is for you to state a case where FGM occured and we did not afford protection - not me.

Much as I would love to argue your case for you - I feel that defeats the purpose of this debate.

Is that a major problem for you?

ParkRunner

Ok this thread really is descending into the realms of tabloid nonsense with the level of animosity towards posters rather than sticking to the facts

T runner

opo wrote: »

I think it is for you to state a case where FGM occured and we did not afford protection - not me.

Much as I would love to argue your case for you - I feel that defeats the purpose of this debate.

Is that a major problem for you?

Less of the petulant tone please. I have stated that we dont afford any protection. Any comment? I would assume that FGM cases would occur as there is no protection either by the Nigerian or Irish state. (unless you can show otherwise, it was your argument that FGM did not occur after deportation not mine as you falsely claimed above I believe?).

T runner

EF wrote: »

Ok this thread really is descending into the realms of tabloid nonsense with the level of animosity towards posters rather than sticking to the facts

Fair enough EF. Ill reply to your earlier country of origin evidence at some stage tommorow, as it may require some research on my part.

opo

T runner wrote: »

Fair enough EF. Ill reply to your earlier country of origin evidence at some stage tommorow, as it may require some research on my part.

As do most of your posts.

AlekSmart

They are supposed to keep a track of Nigerian returnees to keep them out of harms way.

It now appears as if our Constitutional imperative extends globally ?

As this debate progresses it is,like Topsy,developing a strange life of it`s own.
The raw,perhaps unpalatable fact,is that Ms Izevbekhai`s case has been found untenable by as many agencies of State and Law as we can summon.

That fact is now subject to rewriting as some seek a more palatable "Media Friendly" result as with much else in modern Ireland.

In the meantime all around us are the signs of a collapsing society as serial Murderers,Rapists,Thieves and assorted other elements are given the nod to re-offend simply because Judges felt compelled to take a less-stringent sentencing approach in the face of some percieved desire to be seen as "less harsh".

As a result innocent people are dead and maimed whilst liberal minded folk still pop up to defend the rights of the perpetrators.

Ms Izevbekhai`s case in its own field represents little more than another attempt to avoid the unpalatable fact that Ireland,like NIgeria, does have Laws...It`s the implimentation of those that causes us the problems.

opo

T runner wrote: »

Less of the petulant tone please. I have stated that we dont afford any protection. Any comment? I would assume that FGM cases would occur as there is no protection either by the Nigerian or Irish state. (unless you can show otherwise, it was your argument that FGM did not occur after deportation not mine as you falsely claimed above I believe?).

Are you familiar with Occam's razor?

Permabear

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Permabear

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axer

Asylum should have been sought in the first safe country the asylum seekers reached unless there is good reason.

This woman had no reason not to claim asylum in the netherlands since it is a safe country. She came to Ireland as we are seen as a softer nation.

The family should be thrown out as per the law. If we don't we are asking for the influx of Nigerians coming to the country because news of her being allowed to stay WILL spread through nigeria.

Will all these do-gooders pay a special tax to cover their do-goodness?

opo

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article5628006.ece

The Nigerian ambassador to Ireland has challenged Pamela Izevbekhai to present evidence to support her claims that her daughters will suffer female genital mutilation (FGM) if they return to Nigeria.

Kemafo Chikwe said she does not believe Izevbekhai’s story that she fled Nigeria to prevent her two daughters suffering the fate of their sister, Elizabeth, who she says died after FGM in 1994.

"I am giving her a guarantee on behalf of the Nigerian government that everybody is safe in Nigeria, including her,” said Chikwe.

The ambassador challenged Izevbekhai to give details of Elizabeth’s death so it can be investigated.


“If we have the details such as where this child is buried, who are her husband’s family [accused of insisting on the FGM procedure], then we can investigate.”

Izevbekhai has fought a three-year legal battle to stay in Ireland after her application for asylum was rejected by the Office of the Refugee Commissioner and the Refugee Appeals Tribunal.

They said Izevbekhai did not have any “objective basis” to support her claim that her children would suffer FGM.

walrusgumble

donegalfella wrote: »

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the high court does not grant asylum or does it have the power too., it is the rat who make a decision and recommend itto the minister, who in turn offically delares a declaration of refugee status.. if a case has being successful in the high court, (on the grounds of rat erroring in law/fact, made a disproportionate and/or irrational decision, failed to consider all info etc), it is returned to the rat.

if you had access to previous decisions to the rat, you will note that asylum has being granted for fgm in the past for citizens from eg countries such as kenya and somalia. even i nigeria (early 2000) (country of origin of course supported their claims)

your asked the other person to show you cases where fgm was a reason for asylum. well he cant - unless he/she is a lawyer. because the rat , unlike the british counterpart does not make decisions available to the general public. it was only in a recent high court case that lawyers were allowed some (limited) access to previous cases.

so please drop the smug attitude

ParkRunner

Some have been granted FGM in the past and in other jurisdictions. What the decision makers must analyse each case individually on its merits with regard to the current situation in the country of origin and the future threat if the person is returned. Country of origin information acknowledges that State protections are not ideal in Nigeria but those fearing that they will suffer fgm can relocate internally. This is what ORAC, RAT and the Minister relied upon and the High Court upheld every decision made.

ecodub

opo wrote: »

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article5628006.ece

The Nigerian ambassador to Ireland has challenged Pamela Izevbekhai to present evidence to support her claims that her daughters will suffer female genital mutilation (FGM) if they return to Nigeria.

Kemafo Chikwe said she does not believe Izevbekhai’s story that she fled Nigeria to prevent her two daughters suffering the fate of their sister, Elizabeth, who she says died after FGM in 1994.

"I am giving her a guarantee on behalf of the Nigerian government that everybody is safe in Nigeria, including her,” said Chikwe.

The ambassador challenged Izevbekhai to give details of Elizabeth’s death so it can be investigated.


“If we have the details such as where this child is buried, who are her husband’s family [accused of insisting on the FGM procedure], then we can investigate.”

Izevbekhai has fought a three-year legal battle to stay in Ireland after her application for asylum was rejected by the Office of the Refugee Commissioner and the Refugee Appeals Tribunal.

They said Izevbekhai did not have any “objective basis” to support her claim that her children would suffer FGM.

I seen this article in the Times today, it's a pity RTE don't mention this side of the story.

AlekSmart

Kemafo Chikwe said she does not believe Izevbekhai’s story that she fled Nigeria to prevent her two daughters suffering the fate of their sister, Elizabeth, who she says died after FGM in 1994.

"I am giving her a guarantee on behalf of the Nigerian government that everybody is safe in Nigeria, including her,” said Chikwe.

The ambassador challenged Izevbekhai to give details of Elizabeth’s death so it can be investigated.


“If we have the details such as where this child is buried, who are her husband’s family [accused of insisting on the FGM procedure], then we can investigate.”

Yet another worthwhile supportive interjection which perhaps our Courts and our Minister for Justice will note well.

Thus far we have been asked to accepted all manner of awful stuff in relation to the State of Nigeria.

We are told that it cannot or will not protect it`s general population,in spite of which it manages to sustain 140+Million of them.
We are told that it`s status as an Oil Exporting country renders it incapable of being a representative democracy and thus in the gift of the 7 sisters (Major Oil Companies)
We are presented continiuously with "unbiased"NGO reports which purport to expose widespread failures in virtually every facet of Nigerias internal administration.

One,as yet unconsidered aspect to Pamela`Izevbekhai`s success thus far in thwarting the Irish Legal and Asylum systems is the increasing level of negative media comment it is generating for Nigeria.

Much of this comment is taken directly from the Izevbekhai camp so perhaps the Ambassador`s offer is designed to go some way towards reversing that flow of negativity ?

However I prefer to see the Ambassadors apparently simple request for information and her equally forthright offer of protection as something worth exploring,especially if the Irish Government could monitor and report back on the actual level of effectiveness which Ms Izevbekhai experiences ?

In the meantime if I were Ambassador Chikwe I would be preparing for an avalanche of derision as the èlite line up to take a pop !!

opo

Further to my points:

http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2009/01/05/story81217.asp

Extra judges to tackle huge asylum case backlog

THE number of judges dealing with asylum seekers and other immigrants fighting for residency is to be increased five-fold in a major push to fast track the process following revelations there was a huge backlog of 780 cases waiting to be heard.

Five High Court judges will now be dedicated full-time to hearing the mounting appeals and legal challenges from next week — a big increase on the lone judge who has been handling the vast workload.

The move came after a special call-over of the list in the High Court revealed 780 cases were awaiting hearing while an additional 17 new cases were joining the list each week.

Only 240 cases were assigned hearing dates in the new legal term, which begins next Monday, while the rest had to be referred to the next term, beginning in late April, without any indication of when they might be heard.

Ms Justice Mary Finlay Geoghegan has been the only judge hearing cases full-time, although she had occasional assistance in recent months. The Courts Service said from the start of the new term, assistance in the form of four other High Court judges would be assigned on a dedicated basis.

Immigrant support groups have called for extra resources, pleading that cases — usually challenges to deportation orders or decisions of the Refugee Applications Commissioner — routinely take 18 months to get a hearing and, where a judicial review is involved, a further year to get a judgment.

Kevin Brophy, a solicitor involved in immigration cases, including that of Great Agbonlahor, the seven-year-old autistic Nigerian boy deported with his mother and sister in 2007, had voiced concerns about the delays and urged the appointment of an extra judge.

He said he was surprised at the decision to increase resources fivefold and had some doubts as to whether it could be sustained.

“I would view it as a tremendously positive step but I’d like to see it work in practice.”

Asylum applications have fallen in recent years but still ran at an average of 318 per month last year and almost 7,000 asylum seekers are in direct provision accommodation which in 2007 cost the State €83 million.

While other forms of immigration have also dropped, many immigrants with legal residency here are fighting for similar rights for family members still abroad.

Big_Mac

Another article from the times here

Seems to sum up a lot of what has been said here

Trunner, I'd like to hear your thoughts on this article.

Here's a thought. Since the let her stay brigade have a website set up amongst other media to support her campaign, what if the send her home brigade did the same thing conversly. Would they be accused of racism?

Lets just say when she was getting her civic reception in Sligo, what if there was a group of people with plackards out protesting (as citizens have a right to do so) saying Send her home, would that sit well? Would they be branded racists?

Permabear

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Big_Mac

donegalfella wrote: »

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Thanks donegalfella, but credit to rkeane on this, he spotted it before me on another forum

I too would be very interested to see what T runner's opinion is on this article

oscarBravo

axer wrote: »

Asylum should have been sought in the first safe country the asylum seekers reached unless there is good reason.

This woman had no reason not to claim asylum in the netherlands since it is a safe country. She came to Ireland as we are seen as a softer nation.

Banned for a month. There have been plenty of warnings.

rkeane

Big_Mac wrote: »

Thanks donegalfella, but credit to rkeane on this, he spotted it before me on another forum

I too would be very interested to see what T runner's opinion is on this article

Don't worry, he will have an opinion...he always does.

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AlekSmart

Im hoping that there are no connections between Times reporters Mark Tighe and John Mooney and the Irish Independents apparently tainted Tom Brady.

If there are any connections then we can expect some conspiracy theories to come along soon.

However this extract has certainly focused my mind on the financial and "Business" elements of the Izevbekhai campaign`s stance on this.

“The family didn’t apply for asylum in Britain as Tony Izevbekhai had extensive business interests in the UK and was travelling freely between Nigeria and the UK,” an immigration source said. “If she had lodged an asylum application in the UK, his visa would have been revoked. We don’t believe the story about how she arrived in Ireland.”

The statement made by one of the Judicial Tribunal Judges concerning the now almost forgotten Liam Lawlor springs to mind......."Follow the Paper Trail,wherever it may lead to".

Full marks to the Times editorial team for running a piece which does`nt quite sit with the current domestic media coverage as typified by the Irish prefixed name.

However,I would refrain from taunting T Runner as we ALL should be grateful that his/her dedication and application is allowing the ACTUAL case and the issues arising from it to be openly debated.....the boards.ie world would be all the poorer without people who actually DO possess convictions,however misguided others may regard them ??

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GuanYin

donegalfella wrote: »

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If they are to be believed, we may want to know where they were reported, who reported them and what vested interests they might have

Permabear

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GuanYin

donegalfella wrote: »

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Without wishing to defend journalists, I believe the reputable periodicals and media agents do engage in fact checking.

I've been used as an independent source verification by media here on many occasions and I know quotes and statements I've given have been fact checked.

I would be surprised if they were published at the time without some level of investigation into the veracity of the story.

Can you show evidence that no fact checking took place?

Permabear

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