Pamela Izevbekhai - Should She Be Deported?

tbh

Alcatel wrote: »

Uhh, she lied.

it is ALLEGED she lied

blueythebear

sovtek wrote: »

Deny by default is not fair in the least.

Don't quite get the point you're making there? How are people being denied asylum by default?

ParkRunner

sovtek wrote: »

I guess automatically denying all asylum applicants and forcing them through the appeals process is considered fair these days.

Any evidence? Statistics? If you do find stats, check out programme refugee stats too who are brought to this country

djpbarry

Victor_M wrote: »

To have blood sucking, welfare grabbing, lazy nigerians...

Yellowknife wrote: »

All Nigeians should be investigated here. 80% arrive here without passports so this should be a lesson to us all.

I left this thread a few months ago due to the growing anti-Nigerian sentiment that was evident at the time. I thought it may have abated in recent weeks, but alas, I was wrong.

Rafferty444

zootroid wrote: »

I haven't read through this thread as it is so long. But regardless of your feelings on the case, and of the risk of her child facing FGM, if the below story is accurate, she should be long gone

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/deportation-case-mother-had-fake-baby-death-papers-inquiry-told-1688446.html

Thanks for that , i just got up and saw the post i always have a look at these papers for Asylum storys, it was only a matter of time before evidence came to light , but i have to question why didnt the Immigration Garda ask this man at the start ?
it would have saved us million, i will write to the justice minister office they always get back to me.

She has just damaged all FGM cases with her lies, all documents will be checked for fraud from now on with Nigeria, her Ambassidor even went against her saying she would house them in another city, i guess now she wont even get that, i think it was her husband who was behind it as he wants to stay in Europe, i hope his visas are highly looked into now and he should be deported from the EU never to return.

Another win for the people of Ireland.

I am not sure but are the solicitors doing the case for free ? they are getting media attention... tho the actuall courts still cost us way more than several generations could ever give back to us in taxes or any other way. again thanks for the update.

oscarBravo

djpbarry wrote: »

I left this thread a few months ago due to the growing anti-Nigerian sentiment that was evident at the time. I thought it may have abated in recent weeks, but alas, I was wrong.

Indeed, and I'll be taking a zero-tolerance approach to moderating this thread on that basis.

Manic Moran

The Garda Immigration Bureau has personnel in Nigeria to conduct investigations?

I guess it makes sense, especially if there's a steady stream of immigrants.

NTM

tbh

Rafferty444 wrote: »

Thanks for that , i just got up and saw the post i always have a look at these papers for Asylum storys, it was only a matter of time before evidence came to light , but i have to question why didnt the Immigration Garda ask this man at the start ?
it would have saved us million, i will write to the justice minister office they always get back to me.

She has just damaged all FGM cases with her lies, all documents will be checked for fraud from now on with Nigeria, her Ambassidor even went against her saying she would house them in another city, i guess now she wont even get that, i think it was her husband who was behind it as he wants to stay in Europe, i hope his visas are highly looked into now and he should be deported from the EU never to return.

Another win for the people of Ireland.

I am not sure but are the solicitors doing the case for free ? they are getting media attention... tho the actuall courts still cost us way more than several generations could ever give back to us in taxes or any other way. again thanks for the update.

I'm not saying it will happen, but if it does happen that it's proven she wasn't lying, that post will make you look ridiculous. I wonder would you retract it and apologise in that eventuality?

Rafferty444

blueythebear wrote: »

I'm not sure what stage this woman is at in terms of her asylum application (She's been refused asylum and is applying for subsidiary protection now I think?) . THe point is she is one of many Nigerian asylum applicants who are trying to escape FGM. FGM is a real practise and NGO's confirm that it does happen in Nigeria (despite what the Nigerian AG claims). Normally it's not reported due to the fact that it's a cultural practise forced on people by their families and it's rarely investigated b the authorities as it is a family matter and the authorities refuse to get involved.

I'm not a bleeding heart by any means and I do believe that this woman is NOT a refugee, mainly because Nigeria is such a large country that internal relocation is available in a country of that size. However, she has lost a daughter to FGM and if this can be shown, I'd believe she is deserving of protection by this State be it by subsidiary protection or by other means.

Unfortunately, due to recent media coverage, there are many asylum applicants who think that if they mention FGM then they're a shoe-in for refugee status. These people will be caught out in their applications and deported eventually.

The Irish asylum system is sound in principle and conforms to international standards in asylum law. The main problem with the system is the length of time it takes for applications to go through the system. If that could be shortened then things would be alot better overall...

Are you serious ? this thread is now about how its been dissproved that she even had a child before 2000, how much evidence do you need apart from an Ambassidor to the very region where she lived and the Doctor thats name was on the document she gave in person to our authoritys, thank god people like you are not Minister for Justice here as we would be swamped by millions of those trying the system, in Nigeria it is gangs that send people such as her to test the system, any Nigerian here will tell you its all scams, if one gets in thru a story like this then every Nigerian claiming asylum will use the same story.
It is NOT as common place in Nigeria that we think, as the article says just 55 people reported the act of FGM and she was number 56 on her papers , strange how she had a number that didnt exist

ParkRunner

Rafferty444 wrote: »

but i have to question why didnt the Immigration Garda ask this man at the start ?
it would have saved us million, i will write to the justice minister office they always get back to me.

Just a thought but it may have been that the government let this case run its course and gather momentum in the media before completely exposing her claim as false and unfounded to make an example of her. The media coverage has been quieter than I expected given that RTE have been following this case closely for many years now.

herya

Rafferty444 wrote: »

It is NOT as common place in Nigeria that we think, as the article says just 55 people reported the act of FGM and she was number 56 on her papers , strange how she had a number that didnt exist

I think 55 refers to the number of deaths in this province in general.

is_that_so

tbh wrote: »

it is ALLEGED she lied

For now yes but considering that story appears to have identified a disparate selection of potential witnesses that support her having lied, one could be forgiven for accepting that there may indeed be lies at work on the part of Ms. Izevbekhai. Wherever you stand on it it does her case no favours at all.

oscarBravo

Rafferty444 wrote: »

this thread is now about how its been dissproved that she even had a child before 2000...

No, it's not, and don't make the mistake of thinking that it is.

If you weren't prepared to blindly accept her side of the story, don't be prepared to blindly accept anyone else's. There are relevant authorities whose role it is to judge the merits or otherwise of her case.

JP Liz

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/deportation-case-mother-had-fake-baby-death-papers-inquiry-told-1688446.html

She was sent back yes?

oscarBravo

is_that_so wrote: »

...one could be forgiven for accepting that there may indeed be lies at work on the part of Ms. Izevbekhai.

One could, yes. But that doesn't give carte blanche to jump to a prejudicial conclusion.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

oscarBravo

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Let's be clear about this: questioning the behaviour of any given Nigerian is acceptable, as long as that behaviour is, objectively speaking, questionable.

Questioning the behaviour of a Nigerian because s/he is Nigerian is not acceptable.

Tarring all Nigerians with any brush is not acceptable.

I don't know how to make it plainer than that.

Rafferty444

tbh wrote: »

I'm not saying it will happen, but if it does happen that it's proven she wasn't lying, that post will make you look ridiculous. I wonder would you retract it and apologise in that eventuality?

I would gladly hold my hands up , but i am certain that the evidence given will not meen i am wrong, she has been cought out and yet some people are still saying that she is telling the truth, this is the problem in Ireland some people would rather keep going against the evidence than admit that they are in the wrong.
This women has diverted much needed funds of tax payers money away from people who are in need of Irelands help such as Asylum seekers from Sudan and so on, we need to get this women out and she should pay for it, she doesnt look poor to me in her named clothes and i saw her outside the four courts a few monthes ago.
The irish need to find their back bone , yes we went around the world but we were treated badly NOT housed NOT clothed NO fones, NO cars (i have evidence of the welfare cheques , i do a lot of campaigning for peoples rights , but the irish have the right to a fare system aswell and thats forgotten here, all four courts have found her to lie and she rests on the european court of appeals , now if thats not enough to prove shes lieing we now have a doctor whos name is on a cert that he didnt put there , we have evidence that she is not under threat in Nigeria a country with 150,million people, only 55 people have had FGM which in the context of 150,million people is nothing is it, sad this happens yes but it is their culture, we still practice pagan believes or some do anyway but it doent meen we all do or that its the hole country.
why is it that she had a 2 yr visa for England but then came to claim asylum here ? why not claim in England where she had a direct flight to ?
Her husband and she and children flew to England on the visa got a boat to the north of Ireland and then taxi to the republic where they then claimed Asylum, strange actions for a innocent women and family.

herya

Rafferty444 wrote: »

only 55 people have had FGM which in the context of 150,million people is nothing is it,

In general I agree with you but you're misreading the number, it's only a number of death certs given in their province, nothing to do with the number of FGM victims dead or alive.

ParkRunner

oscarBravo wrote: »

If you weren't prepared to blindly accept her side of the story, don't be prepared to blindly accept anyone else's. There are relevant authorities whose role it is to judge the merits or otherwise of her case.

I agree, she is entitled to fair procedures and I await with interest her replying affidavit to this new information.

Most people here have been countering her case though not on the belief that her first daughter was not subjected to FGM and died as a result, but on the fact that the fear of a similar fate would await her 2 daughters should they be returned to Nigeria, is insufficient to warrant her and her two children being granted protection in this country

oscarBravo

Rafferty444 wrote: »

NO cars (i have evidence of the welfare cheques...

If you have evidence that asylum seekers in this country have cars provided to them, you'd better produce it.

Rafferty444

EF wrote: »

Just a thought but it may have been that the government let this case run its course and gather momentum in the media before completely exposing her claim as false and unfounded to make an example of her. The media coverage has been quieter than I expected given that RTE have been following this case closely for many years now.

I agree on all points , and yes the fact RTE and TV3 news has not mentioned it is strange maybe they are a bit red faced.

And what ever happend to the great story it has dissapeard.

And the Man who was deported and allowed back to do his studys , i think he is now working in a Spar and has a child (after the IBC law) with some girl.

How many of these high profiled asylum seekers actually get deported ?

The nigerian government have been in contact with the Port Laoise Mayor to entice him back to Nigerian politis, he also helped his brothers son into ireland and has gotten him into irish politics.

Victor_M

oscarBravo wrote: »

Let's be clear about this: questioning the behaviour of any given Nigerian is acceptable, as long as that behaviour is, objectively speaking, questionable.

Questioning the behaviour of a Nigerian because s/he is Nigerian is not acceptable.

Tarring all Nigerians with any brush is not acceptable.

I don't know how to make it plainer than that.

Have you ever heard of a process called Risk profiling? Used in airports all the time to increase the chance of catching smugglers based on trends and historical data.

Same applies to Asylum seekers, it would be naive not to pay extra attention to applicants from a country with a proven track record of fraudulent Asylum claims.

So I'm sorry when it comes to policing your over simplistic view isn't very practical.

The Corinthian

oscarBravo wrote: »

Questioning the behaviour of a Nigerian because s/he is Nigerian is not acceptable.

It may be unfair, but unless you have unlimited resources to screen everyone both thoroughly and equally, you do need to put more resources into those who fall into a high risk demographic. For example, most security checks at airports are actually very superficial and would not stop someone who really put their minds on smuggling, however having detailed checks for everyone would mean that we would have to check in six hours before out flights. As a result, profiling is used to pick out likely culprits (those most likely to be drug mules, for example) and unfortunately this also means that if you look middle eastern, you're going to get pulled more often than not.

This may be unfair, but the reality is that if someone does bring a bomb on board a plane in the present day, it is more likely to be someone who is middle eastern in appearance. Unfortunately, a twenty years ago, being Irish would have put one in such a category - but then again, chances are if a bomb went off in the UK, the perpetrators were going to be Irish, not Arab.

However, to be investigated and be convicted are two different things, and I would not not presume any Nigerian guilty before being proven so any more than I would presume them innocent.

I would disagree that targeting Nigerians for extra examination is racist though. Nigerians are often singled out because there is a culture of graft and corruption there, one which many Nigerians leave Nigeria to escape. I would not categorize most sub-Saharan countries in the same fashion, it's just that Nigeria has a bigger problem with this than most.

So I view it as a necessary evil, even though I too may be at the receiving end of it upon occasion.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

sovtek

opo wrote: »

You guessed wrong.

Not a fan of sarcasm are ya...and they say Americans don't understand it.

Rafferty444

oscarBravo wrote: »

If you have evidence that asylum seekers in this country have cars provided to them, you'd better produce it.

I have in the form of fotocopys of cheques , and please do not say i better do anything i am here to discuss not be threatened, for several years i have been collecting evidence of Welfare and other fraud , also i investigate scams, i help local communitys and try to help with their fears,
I investigate many storys like th car payments and other things, i also have evidence from Nigerian nationals here and also other nationals living in Ireland , these papers are not on my computer but in a file of collected items, i have on many occasion had meetings with news papers and also welfare departments , in this country it is hard when uncovering things to get anyone to then act.
I am hoping with the down turn of our economy that these payments will be looked at , i have 3 councilors who i cant mention looking into them.

tbh

Rafferty444 wrote: »

I have in the form of fotocopys of cheques , and please do not say i better do anything i am here to discuss not be threatened, for several years i have been collecting evidence of Welfare and other fraud , also i investigate scams, i help local communitys and try to help with their fears,
I investigate many storys like th car payments and other things, i also have evidence from Nigerian nationals here and also other nationals living in Ireland , these papers are not on my computer but in a file of collected items, i have on many occasion had meetings with news papers and also welfare departments , in this country it is hard when uncovering things to get anyone to then act.
I am hoping with the down turn of our economy that these payments will be looked at , i have 3 councilors who i cant mention looking into them.

ahhhhhhh. your posts make more sense now you've established context.

blueythebear

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

You seem to be somewhat confused about the definition of a refugee. It doesn't matter if there is a war in their country of origin. The main stipulation is that the asylum seeker has a reasonable fear of persecution for reasons of race, religion, political opinion, etc. There are valid grounds for an application for asylum from Nigeria and there are Nigerians who have legitimately been granted asylum in this country.

If it's reasonable to ask about statistics on Nigerians working in Ireland in 2006 I think it's reasonable for me to ask what the source of those statistics are and what was the other 31% in that poll doing?

The asylum system costs so much because it's incredibly inefficient and poor decisions are being made by the decisoinmakers all the time, opening the door for judicial review. An increase in the quality and efficiency in decisionmaking will lower the cost dramatically.

Applicants claiming persecution by voodoo curses are NOT entertained at any stage. It is clear from the Briefing Notes on Refugee Status Determination (Paragraph 15) used by the Department that a fear of being "charmed" cannot translate to a fear of persecution as it has no objective basis.

meditraitor

Rafferty444 wrote: »

I have in the form of fotocopys of cheques , and please do not say i better do anything i am here to discuss not be threatened, for several years i have been collecting evidence of Welfare and other fraud , also i investigate scams, i help local communitys and try to help with their fears,
I investigate many storys like th car payments and other things, i also have evidence from Nigerian nationals here and also other nationals living in Ireland , these papers are not on my computer but in a file of collected items, i have on many occasion had meetings with news papers and also welfare departments , in this country it is hard when uncovering things to get anyone to then act.
I am hoping with the down turn of our economy that these payments will be looked at , i have 3 councilors who i cant mention looking into them.

I cant understand why this has not made it into national/reputable media sources.

If what you say it true then the public should know.

If what you say is not true then im sure you have your reasons but they are despicable.