Pamela Izevbekhai - Should She Be Deported?

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

T runner

From COI reports admissable inCourt:

Any prosecutions which are brought as a result of police action will invariably be in favour of the wealthier party to the complaint.......Corruption was rampant, most often taking the form of bribes at highway checkpoints........Nigerian journalists yet again lived through an appalling year in 2006. They have had to face police brutality, arrests in certain cases for the least article that annoyed local authorities and corruption in the military, among politicians and businessmen........The attitude that torture is an accepted tool of interrogation appears to pervade all levels of the police force.”
“According to Nigerian police reform experts, the police force has insufficient well-trained manpower to adequately address policing needs.....The police have often been unable to meet the safety and security needs of local communities.....The police are poorly paid, poorly resourced, and are ill-equipped to deal with violent crime......
This raises serious doubts as to the ability or willingness of the police to respond to the proposed request.

The CLEEN foundation reports show extremely low rates of crime being reported to the police and little confidence and fear of the police at all levels.

"There is little public confidence in the police. Indeed, they are criticized by virtually all sectors of civil society.......The loss of public confidence in the effectiveness of the police has resulted in the emergence of private security outfits and local vigilante groups........government actors including the police, military, and elected officials continued to commit serious and persistent abuses against Nigerian citizens.
The pervading cultural attitude to women and crime against women Nigeria makes it less likely for police to respond to alleged crimes against females.
women and men who go to the police to report cases of violence in the family, including rape and physical assault, are often met with a patronizing and discouraging attitude, ‘unless it is a case of the rape of a child or the husband kills his wife’.... Rape of women and girls by both the police and security forces, and within their homes and community, is acknowledged to be endemic in Nigeria.....The Nigerian authorities at both federal and state levels have failed to address adequately gender-based violence.
No prosecutions for FGM in an entire year against FGM under state laws in Osun.
.....there is a law banning FGM, but the NPF (Police) does not become involved in FGM matters, as ‘it is a family thing’.........social tolerance of gender-based violence in the family is replicated among Nigeria’s law enforcement officials.....…there is little state provision to support women facing domestic violence, female genital mutilation or trafficking. Where it exists it is inadequate....

CLEEN has extrapolated statistics which show 128 cases of kidnapping recognised by the Nigerian Police.
In one of their surveys they found that .22% of people had been kidnapped.
This means that 1% of kidnaps make the police records.

Rafferty444

T runner wrote: »

He wont be let by the Nigerian authorities. Hes too likely to seek asylum. His reasons might be embarrasing to them.



"Since 1995, Transparency International has published an annual Corruption Perceptions Index (CPI)[1] ordering the countries of the world according to "the degree to which corruption is perceived to exist among public officials and politicians".[2]"

This is not an index of corruption of the average Nigerian citizen it is an index of their corrupt official oppressors. Government, Police, secret service etc.

It just means that anything a Nigerian official has touched should not be trusted.

Just so we dont all lose a grip on reality with the latest "Tom Brady". A few things to consider:

There was only a reported 55 recorded death certificates in Surulere district in 1994 even though the population was over 600,000.

Brady cant even quote the doctor. His one source who had "been shown the registry of deaths in the Surulere district in Lagos for 1994 showed only 55 entries. Shall we guess who showed him?

The HSE talked with a doctor as did an Irish reporter. Both verified his legitimacy. Why would this doctor change his story? Perhaps someone showed him too?


There was also a birth cert given in evidence to the Irish Courts no mention of this.

Who showed the Gardai where to look? Why has this evidence not been handed over by Nigerian authorities until now? Has Official Nigerian touched this case?





Nigeria is not at war although 25,000 Nigerian refugees recently ran from Delta province into Cameroon by Nigerian police (for US Oil Companies))


It is statistiacally harder for Africans to get work than White/Asian people.
It is not unusual for this population to occuppy the very lowest jobs (handing out papers, working in nightclub toilets etc.) It may say more about our country than theirs.





The Refugee Appeals Tribunal Needs to be improved. Too many inexperienced and inconsistent judges. Government need to look at legal people exploiting loopholes for personal gain (and not just in Asylum cases).


That has nothing to do with the individuals and more to do with the Irish Asylum system which is in need of drastic reform. You could also ask why the high court failed to quash the RAT where somebody was turned down because the tribunal member at lenght insisted there was a Law against FGM in Delta state when no such Law existed. Clearly not a fair hearing but still upheld by the high court.



His success in Ireland made him a hero in his native town. He was clearly in a much better position to protect himself (he had a tribal chiefs on his side now) while the people who wanted him hurt were in a weaker position.

But is saying that thes things happen because they are Nigerians racist?

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0327/1224243552817.html



Mr Aylward expressed veiled criticism of members of the legal profession who represented failed asylum seekers. He said applications for judicial review were left “to the last minute” and challenges to deportations delayed until the intended deportee was taken “to the steps of the plane”.
“It’s legal ambush,” he said.
The earnings from such activities were increasing for the “large, growing legal community”.
Some 400 gardaí, mostly of detective rank, were now employed to police the immigration system. The State’s handling of all asylum seekers had cost more than €2 billion to date.
Mr Aylward said of almost 81,000 people who had applied for asylum here since 1992, about 9,000 had been granted refugee status. Some 3,269 failed asylum seekers had been deported.
While many of the estimated 69,000 other failed asylum seekers had likely left the State, it was difficult to be sure of this. “When people leave the country covertly you can’t check that, you can’t prove a negative,” Mr Aylward said. He could not estimate how many illegal immigrants were in the Republic at present.
This article appears in the print edition of the Irish Times

ParkRunner

Rafferty444 wrote: »

in which direction ? to much in favour ? or against ?

I think we dont hear enough, you sound like your an asylum seeker who is here to push asylum views on us. as Blanchardstown is known as ireland first ghetto

I mean too much in favour. I can guarantee you I am not an asylum seeker quite the opposite!

Rafferty444

EF wrote: »

I mean too much in favour. I can guarantee you I am not an asylum seeker quite the opposite!

glad to hear it but you do live in the "Ghetto" do you know that there are other ex Asylum seekers trying to get moved house to your area, mainly Nigerians.

GuanYin

Rafferty444 wrote: »

I think we dont hear enough, you sound like your an asylum seeker who is here to push asylum views on us.

A few points.

1. So what if he is? He's entitled to push his views just as much as you are, regardless of who he is or where he is from. Do you understand?

2. Don't make another claim as fact on this forum unless you are willing to provide evidence for your anecdotal heresay. That isn't a request by the way.

/moderation.

ParkRunner

Rafferty444 wrote: »

glad to hear it but you do live in the "Ghetto" do you know that there are other ex Asylum seekers trying to get moved house to your area, mainly Nigerians.

I didn't know that no but I do know and work with many Nigerian people and don't have any problem with them. There are probably more eastern europeans than nigerians in West Dublin but this is all off topic so ill leave it at that.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

SWL

T runner wrote: »

He wont be let by the Nigerian authorities. Hes too likely to seek asylum. His reasons might be embarrasing to them.



"

His success in Ireland made him a hero in his native town. He was clearly in a much better position to protect himself (he had a tribal chiefs on his side now) while the people who wanted him hurt were in a weaker position.



I heard on radio I think it was Matt Coopers show a story where somebody worked with this guy on the London Underground.

T Runner I think your natural and fair outlook on life is being abused. The women is laughing at you and other well minded initial who have offered time do defend her case. Fcuk her, you should be furious that you were taken in. I in future will take cases with a grain of salt.

lego

Look on the bright side, between the fake death cert, the Nigerian ambassador disagreeing with her, her husband illegally entering the state via the border with Northern Ireland, Dutch authorities having no record of her supposed transit through Amsterdam and the fact that she travelled thousands of kilometres to Ireland even though there are plenty of safe countries that are closer to Nigeria Ms. Izevbekhai will have a shot at landing an advertising job with a Swiss cheese manufacturer even if she loses her case.

The letthemstay.org nutcases blindly believe everything she says and ignore all evidence to the contrary. Their battle cry is something to the tune of: "Ms. Izevbekhai is telling the truth and everyone else is a racist liar."

ORAC, RAT, and every court in the country has found against her, the more evidence that turns up the bigger a liar she looks, and yet she persists in the knowledge that we're a soft-touch banana republic that will probably let her stay anyway.

sovtek

lego wrote: »

Look on the bright side, between the fake death cert, the Nigerian ambassador disagreeing with her, her husband illegally entering the state via the border with Northern Ireland, Dutch authorities having no record of her supposed transit through Amsterdam and the fact that she travelled thousands of kilometres to Ireland even though there are plenty of safe countries that are closer to Nigeria Ms. Izevbekhai will have a shot at landing an advertising job with a Swiss cheese manufacturer even if she loses her case.

The letthemstay.org nutcases blindly believe everything she says and ignore all evidence to the contrary. Their battle cry is something to the tune of: "Ms. Izevbekhai is telling the truth and everyone else is a racist liar."

ORAC, RAT, and every court in the country has found against her, the more evidence that turns up the bigger a liar she looks, and yet she persists in the knowledge that we're a soft-touch banana republic that will probably let her stay anyway.

I think about the only accurate statement you made there was that Ireland is a banana republic.

sovtek

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Ireland is fast becoming known for corruption as well. Does that mean that immigration officials throughout the world should be more vigiliant with Irish nationals?

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

EnigmasWhisper

From what I have read in todays newspapers, it seems Pamela Izevbekhai has been exposed as a liar. Now while this doesnt come as a surprise to most intelligent obervers it must be humiliating to the legions of naive do-gooders of the 'letherstay' brigade who campaigned on her behalf. I for one have sat through this whole saga embarrassed and cringing at how gullible and naive these Nigerian people must think we are. What a laughing stock and soft touch they must consider us to be. Ireland is at last changing, the PC fools are beginning to fall away. Hopefuly this ladies return to Nigeria will signal the beginning of some common sense in this country, and it will no longer be seen as a nation of idiots throwing money at them....dont get me started on our goverments plans to lease Hotels to house them.

EnigmasWhisper

lego wrote: »

Look on the bright side, between the fake death cert, the Nigerian ambassador disagreeing with her, her husband illegally entering the state via the border with Northern Ireland, Dutch authorities having no record of her supposed transit through Amsterdam and the fact that she travelled thousands of kilometres to Ireland even though there are plenty of safe countries that are closer to Nigeria Ms. Izevbekhai will have a shot at landing an advertising job with a Swiss cheese manufacturer even if she loses her case.

The letthemstay.org nutcases blindly believe everything she says and ignore all evidence to the contrary. Their battle cry is something to the tune of: "Ms. Izevbekhai is telling the truth and everyone else is a racist liar."

ORAC, RAT, and every court in the country has found against her, the more evidence that turns up the bigger a liar she looks, and yet she persists in the knowledge that we're a soft-touch banana republic that will probably let her stay anyway.

The majority of people on this island arent soft touches and nutscases like letthemstay.org. Its just that we seemed to have lost our voices and anger somewhere along the way. This lady thinks we are complete and utter fools, but then again so do all her fellow countrymen

lego

sovtek wrote: »

Ireland is fast becoming known for corruption as well. Does that mean that immigration officials throughout the world should be more vigiliant with Irish nationals?

Theres no comparison, In terms of corruption, Nigeria is in a league of its own. Corruption in Europe pales into insignificance when compared to the kind of stuff that goes on in Nigeria. For example, cash transfers between Banks in Nigeria are escorted by tanks and nothing ever happens there without a bribe.

Victor_M

EnigmasWhisper wrote: »

The majority of people on this island arent soft touches and nutscases like letthemstay.org. Its just that we seemed to have lost our voices and anger somewhere along the way. This lady thinks we are complete and utter fools, but then again so do all her fellow countrymen

It's not that we (as in right minded, fair, normal people) have lost our voice or our anger, it's just that new multi cultural Ireland has become very PC,the minority voice gets such a disproportionate hearing that it seems to drown out the majority.

This case has stank to high heavens from the get go, 4 courts have turned her down at this stage, that's before she was unashamedly outed as a manipulative con artist. Unfortunately there are enough lefty lawyers trying to make names for them selves doing pro bono 'would somebody please think of the children' cases like these. Hopefully the outcome of this case will change the face of fraudulent asylum seeking in this country, she needs to be punished (in Nigeria, she's been here too long as it is), if she is proven by a court of law to have falsified death certs so as to deter anyone considering the same course of action.

It's only a pity this turning point didn't come 6-8 years ago!

Yellowknife

There are no direct plane or ship routes between here and Nigeria. Is it not obvious that these people are jumping from one country to the next to get here? Does anybody know if Mosney holiday camp still houses these people? If so they all should have their cases scrutinised.

Reginald P. DuM

she's got to go.... period

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

ParkRunner

I just listened back to the Gerry Ryan show this morning and I think a DNA test needs to be done on Pamela's son Adrian to see if he is her son, as the doctor said Pamela had no child before 1999 from what I can see. At least that would clarify the legitimacy of the doctor's claims, who is now being relied on by both Pamela and the Minister.

lego

EF wrote: »

I just listened back to the Gerry Ryan show this morning and I think a DNA test needs to be done on Pamela's son Adrian to see if she is her son, as the doctor said Pamela had no child before 1999 from what I can see. At least that would clarify the legitimacy of the doctor's claims, who is now being relied on by both Pamela and the Minister.

While it would clarify the legitimacy of the doctor's claims, it still would not prove whether or not her other daughter ever actually existed.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

ParkRunner

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Good point. If he does exist he would be 17 years old from info on the net and if he were to prove to be her son it would discredit the doctor. Even so I still think Pamela could safely live in Nigeria with her 2 daughters

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

ParkRunner

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I agree, from what we have seen today it is more credible to belive that he doesn't exist. The doctor's interview with RTÉ back in 2005 is going to be used in the ECHR by Pamela and heavily relied upon, which is really why I think his credibility is so important. The sudden appearance of Adrian (DNA test in hand) at the 11th hour would damage but not be a fatal blow I think to the State's position after the revelations revealed today.

AlekSmart

Our course the Nigerian government would be embaresed by FGM eneogh to disgredit her with a false withness...

I was wondering when the reaction would set in.

However the biggest problem the Izevbekhai camp now have is the very strong rebuttal by Dr Unokanjo,who after all was brought into this by Ms Izevbekhai herself.
Dr Unokanjo`s deposition points to concrete evedential stuff such as his forged signatures and the Hospital Stamp and Address being incorrect on the official documents.

It should also be noted that Dr Unokanjo`s involvement with the Hospital is a long standing one since he was one of it`s founders in 1992.

This makes the Doctor`s affidavit all the more verifiable,in stark contrast to most of what Ms Izevbekhai has supplied to date.

However as others have pointed out,one of the defining points of the entire process is the manner in which large amounts of Legal-Aid funding is being disbursed amongst a section of the Legal Proffession,however thats a topic for a different thread I suppose ??

blackiebest

Hi all, i have not read back on all the posts but I am going to stick my neck on the block again.

I posted early this morning having read the story in the indo and stated that if it is true then I felt she must go. It seemed clear that her story had been shredded by her doctor and it certainly appeared so however;

Tonight i met with one 'in the know person' who has been very involved in Pamelas case. I told him I thought it was over as the report seemed so clear. However it appears the doctor is a liar! He was interviewed on local radio in Sligo and by philip Boucher Hayes a number of years back, apparently. He apparently told a completely different story then. I lifted this from another forum;

Probably a fool's errand but maybe worth pointing out that the story today isn't as clear as it seems. The doctor is saying everything was forged and a fake created by Pamela. But that's not what he said in 2005 when interviewed by RTÉ's Philip Boucher Hayes. Clip played on Gerry Ryan today:

Boucher Hayes
Dr. Unokanjo, back in 2005 and he gives evidence to the affect that not only was he there when the child died but he was also there when the child was born…

Clip of Dr. Unokanjo
Baby Elizabeth Izevbekhai was delivered in this hospital on 11th February 1993, a product of full term supervised pregnancy. The baby was delivered via spontaneous vaginal delivery, that is SVD, with part complications and was discharged three days later in good condition but a year plus later baby Elizabeth was rushed back to the hospital on the evening of 15th July 1994 with history of weakness and pallor which possibly resulted from profused bleeding having undergone the traditional female genital circumcision. I thought to survive baby would include emergency blood transfusion proved abortive, baby therefore died of circulatory collapse at about 5.30am on the 16th July 1994 and that is actually what happened. The death was as a result of what circumcision did to her.

Philip
Are cases like this common?

Dr. Unokanjo
It depends on the naivety (pho) of the people involved, some people…

Philip
And in your experience the tribe that Tony came from, were there in the habit of performing female genital circumcision?


Dr. Unokanjo
Yes, yes, I think that Pamela’s husband, especially the husband, they are still into this awkward (pho) tradition.

Gerry Ryan
Well that seems the polar opposite to what he is saying in the Affidavit.

Philip
Couldn’t have been clearer reading from his own notes, so you ask yourself what happened between my interview and that Affidavit and I think this is the key thing here. It came to my attention that a number of the people that I had interviewed and broadcast interviews with on RTE Radio were visited in Nigeria by a Captain in the Nigerian Army, and they were told in no uncertain terms, do not continue to lend your support to Pamela Izevbekhai’s case and certainly do not continue talking to journalist from Irish radio. In the immediate wake of that I rang Dr. Unokanjo back to see had this happened to him as well…...

Imagine how much trouble it is in 2005 to go and root out notes from 1994, he went to quite a considerable amount of effort to help me establish the bonefides of Pamela Izevbekhai’s claim but here you have, a couple of months after that interview was broadcast, I get back to him in the Isioma Hospital in Lagos and he won’t answer the phone to me and a colleague of his tells me that he has had a visit from somebody in the Nigerian Army, he has been threatened and he is not going to talk to me and that I should stop calling and he refused to answer any subsequent calls that I made, and that was the experience of one or two other people who also gave me interviews.




So, the doctor was lieing in 2005 or he was lying in 2009. I don't know which it is but at some point he lied. What we shouldn't do is make a snap decision either way. It could be that Pamela left an upper middle class lifestyle in Lagos to live on 19 Euros a week in Sligo for reasons other than FGM. She faked three or four different pieces of documentation, fooled journalists and researchers and managed to bribe doctors to support her case when questioned. Or the Nigerian state may have moved to intimidate and cover up the fact of her first child's death.

I honestly don't know, though I lean more towards Pamela than the other argument, I'm fully prepared to accept she lied if it's proven after a fair, impartial and independent investigation. Which brings us to the other difficulty here. Pamela made her claim four years ago. Shouldn't this have been investigated before this and the decision, whatever it was, made then on the back of real information rather than the Irish government's claim that Nigeria could protect children from FGM (The only defence Ireland had until today for refusing her application) which Nigeria itself undermined when they told the UN in 2006 that enforcement of anti-FGM laws in Nigeria was negligible.


If he has changed his story then why? In response to EF i am sure Pamela would be delighted to have Adrian, her 17 year old son, DNA tested if then people would accept the doctor is lying. Donegal I can understand why Pamela declined to be interviewed today, the reported story is a bombshell to her case and credibility in the eyes of the masses as evidenced here.

I suggested to my friend in the LEt them Stay org that they, as soon as possible, compile a detailed response to the story in todays papers complete with links etc. I will follow this up tomorrow and post

blackiebest

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

The doctor is a liar this is proven by himself. Either lying in 05' or 09'. So his statements should be thrown out of the debate

opo

blackiebest wrote: »

The doctor is a liar this is proven by himself. Either lying in 05' or 09'. So his statements should be thrown out of the debate

It would be a shame if your side hogged all the wacky conspiracy theories.

Can you prove it was the Doctor interviewed and not some individual set up for the purpose?