Pamela Izevbekhai - Should She Be Deported?

Big_Mac

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

As I'm sure you have seen over the time that this thread is going. Endless evidence is not enough, the pro campaign will persist regardless.

I note that Mrs Izevbekhai is now shifting her asylum case away from the girls and towards herself, claiming that she will be murdered if she is returned to Nigeria.

Where did this come from? Not suprising, but the first I've heard of it.

Yes—and worse, anyone who did display such skepticism towards Mrs Izevbekhai's claims was automatically branded a racist or a hardcore conservative on immigration issues.

Something a lot of us have been subject to on this thread and others on boards.

I would personally love to know what the relationship is between Tony Izevbekhai and the "Dr Unokanjo" who was interviewed by Philip Boucher-Hayes in 2005. I would not be at all surprised if they were one and the same.

Hopefully Boucher-Hayes or one of those pillars of journalism will do some digging and try to find this out.

Why not do a voice comparison of the original interview with the doctor and the interview with Mr Izevbekhai on one of the propaganda videos? Then again, his face was blurred out, so how do we even know that that was him at all?

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Big_Mac

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Hold the frikkin phone here. This case was about the protection of her children agains the alledged danger of FGM that they ultimately and unqestionably face, according to the Pro campaign. Interesting how all of a sudden she has forgotten about the children, and now its all about her.

She wouldn't be in danger of FGM herself, she is too old. What fictitious reasoning will she give for her being in danger now, and why o why wasn't this mentioned before? I can think of one good reaon - its nonsense.

This case has never been about her, its been about her children.

Hang on a sec, let me just look at her statement again:

Whatever I have to do to protect my children, I will do

She insisted that the Nigerian authorities could not give her a guarantee of safety if she returns to her own country.

So add the two of them together and what do you get? She said she will do anything remember........ by definition, this includes lie.

Another flaw here, coming from the pro side.

"The argument centred on whether Pamela's daughters' Naomi and Jemima would be safe if returned to Nigeria.

"All of us who campaigned around this issue believed that they would not be safe due to the compelling evidence on the practice of FGM in Nigeria

Methinks someone needs to make up their mind which story they are going with.......

dodgyme

hang on a sec til I get Roddy Doyle on the phone! I think he is writing a letter as we speak -> "the woman who walked into Sligo"

Big_Mac

dodgyme wrote: »

hang on a sec til I get Roddy Doyle on the phone! I think he is writing a letter as we speak -> "the woman who walked into Sligo"

If he does, it'll be worth as much as his last letter - Nothing.

HollyB

"The facts in the case that Pamela's daughter Elizabeth died as a result of severe bleeding due to female circumsion were never disputed by the State during the lengthy legal process in respect of this case to date."

That doesn't mean that they shouldn't have been disputed, nor should it be taken as automatic proof that the "facts" in the case are actually fact, not fiction. Does a lie become the truth if it is believed?

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Big_Mac

HollyB wrote: »

That doesn't mean that they shouldn't have been disputed, nor should it be taken as automatic proof that the "facts" in the case are actually fact, not fiction. Does a lie become the truth if it is believed?

I agree. The documentation that was provided to the courts regarding her alleged daughter's death has been falsified and her doctor has given an affadavit to the effect that he has never treated her, never witnessed her birth nor death, despite the fact that Pamela has said that he was her doctor
. Ok, so the doctor now wants to cash in on this and wants money for this information, big deal. Surely a newspaper can stump up the 5k for this, or even the letthemstay organisation. If they are fully behind pamela in this situation, they should also be fully behind her story too....

It would be prudent to now question the so called 'facts' of the case.

EDIT:

Izevbekhai: [Sighs] [Long pause] Listen, a country where a lot of things are going on.... A lot of things are going on in my country. Marian, I need to be careful, please.

A lot of things are going on in this country too. I need to be careful. For instance, I shall have to be careful that I don't use the hairdryer in the bath because I might get electrocuted. I shall have to be careful how I conduct myself in public because of the laws of this country......... Rot and nonsense.

Is this now her reason to look for leave to remain?

BTW, DF do you have a link to the interview that I can listen to it?

jmcc

Big_Mac wrote: »

As I'm sure you have seen over the time that this thread is going. Endless evidence is not enough, the pro campaign will persist regardless.

I think it is fascinating to watch the astroturf turn-up effect in action. One post wonders seem to be attacking the thread now and they all seem to be LTS orientated.

Hopefully Boucher-Hayes or one of those pillars of journalism will do some digging and try to find this out.

This is the strangest part of the situation. The original interview with this "doctor" was in 2005. The Garda investigation has established that the doctor they interviewed was not the "doctor" interviewed by Boucher-Hayes. The phone number to contact this "doctor" was given to Boucher-Hayes. Investigative journalists tend to do their own research precisely because of the possibility of this kind of problem arising. They often try to verify facts from a number of independent sources. Boucher-Hayes then interviewed this "doctor" and was given the "sinister forces" brush off. It is a classic scam technique all too familiar to investigative journalists and other professional investigators.

The timelines in this case are worrying. Boucher-Hayes' first interview was in 2005. The forged documentation has only been admitted to in the last few days. So not only is there the problem of forged documentation submitted to the courts, there is also a rather dubious interview with a "doctor" conducted via a number provided to Boucher-Hayes. Provided by whom? Was Boucher-Hayes played like a 419er's mark? The Garda investigation seems to have established that the "doctor" on the radio interviews was not the doctor they interviewed. So what's the story here?

This has been going on since 2005 at least and the forged documentation is only the latest event. The case has fallen apart and according to the Irish Times, the legal team will seek to remove itself from the record. There may well be more revelations over the next few days and this matter has definitely become political. Conor Lenihan's statement ( http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0329/izevbekhaip.html ) seems to be evidence of a backbone emerging in the Irish body politic that has been missing. This case may be setting a precedent and it is one that, I think, the Irish government is serious about winning. And so far, it has.

Regards...jmcc

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

AlekSmart

I can now see this arguement coming down to 'They've been here for so long, they can't uproot them now.......'

This is probably the final analysis which will be applied here,with the outcome totally dependent upon whatever else happens to be in the news that day.

The entire thing is now in Muddy-The -Waters mode with the LTS folk happy to waltz along in the background banging their drums.

The reality for the Irish LTS people and for Ms Izevbekhai`s legal team is that they have been led a merry dance.
Their only crime (if thats what it is) was to be unquestioning and gullible enough to swallow what was always a dodgy account.
It`s actually no different to any of the numerous Internet scams which infest our Mailboxes every working day in which members of deposed Royal Families seek our banking details in order to give us millions in grateful appreciation of our trust and gullibility.

One thing however is becoming clearer and that is a definite tightening of the rules regarding what will be accepted as "evidence by the newly smartened up Irish authorities.
It will,if you like,make us far more circumspect in our dealings with these "doorsteppers" and none the worse for that.

There is also the obvious result that proposed new regulations regarding punitive liability on Legal Representatives of vexatious applicants (as Ms Izevbekhai now surely is) will most certainly be fast-tracked.

Ms Izevbekhai`s Legal Team can be thankful that they are not going to be the first to feel the effects of this aspect of the new asylum laws.

Athhough it could be argued that if the new regulations had been in force they might have been far more particular before accepting so much of their clients unverified accounts as directly germane to the case at hand.

No matter what now happens,Pamela Izevbekhai has been of some service to this State,a fact which will impact for decades to come on both Irish and Nigerian peoples.

solarant

So you let her stay and set a precedent and the flood gates open everyone with fake papers are accepted by the court of the land.
So you want the law to be broken with impunity, this is not about one family it is about going through the right channels with a honest and officially documented case.

This case is about a women for whatever reasons wants to move to Europe and get all the benefits that goes with it and she is using her innocent children as a means to a end for her own and her husbands benefit, I say send them back and set that precedent giving notice that fake and false claims will not be tolerated by the law of the land.

bokspring71 wrote: »

I can imagine this would make a great hollywood smash hit - it has all the elements; children, mutilation, trans country action, the race card and even a tearful mothers fight to protect her children.

Probably in the film, just as everyone turns against them, the viewer learns the real truth, just as they are landing at lagos airport, that her claims were true and that the falsified documents were obtained by a desperate mother in an effort to save her children....

Why is evreyone so exercised by this case?

blackiebest

Donegal, Big Mac, Alek et all.

I would think I have been one of the more regular posters from the 'Let them stay' side on this forum.

As soon as I read the article on Friday morning last I posted that if the report stood up then she should be deported although it kills me to do so, mainly because of her children and what will be happening in their little heads when put on the plane to Lagos.

By Friday night, following Boucher Hayes revelations I felt the doctor was being intimidated and her case stood up. This appears now to have been blown apart by yesterdays revelations.

I am not a member of a 'Let them Stay' campaign and only ever posted based on what I knew, or thought I knew, and only ever represented my own opinions.

I have posted, several times, that I would be ashamed to be Irish if Pamela was deported and this conviction was formed under the assumption that Elizabeth; a) lived and b) died from FGM. No one of you, although I may stand corrected, ever questioned the existence of Elizabeth based on evidence.

It seems inevitable now that what will be a very traumatic deportation will take place. An entire school and community will be devastated when this takes place. I am searching for an understandable explanation to deliver to my 5 year old for when this happens.

I very much appreciated the PM I received from one of the more vocal 'send her home' brigade acknowledging my post last friday morning and note this is the only response to what have been very frank posts.

The generalization of people who campaigned on Pamela's behalf is insulting and incorrect. I could rightly suggest that for every lucid post from the 'send her home' side there are 5 more displaying crass ignorance based on racist views. The "those people", "these type of people" etc posts are embarrassing and we as a society should do all we can to educate our children to treat all people, regardless of ethnic origin, with respect.

So, if Elizabeth was never born and never died from FGM, If Pamela, Jemima and Naomi are deported, I will be a proud but very very upset Irishman. I will ponder the damage inflicted by the 'fraud' elements of this case for other people in genuine need of asylum and I will forever wonder did Pamela believe those documents were genuine up to last Friday! I will turn a cold shoulder to those of you who gloat and celebrate as Jemima and Naomi live through the worst imaginable mental nightmare young girls could suffer.

bokspring71

I was all for deporting her until I read some of the really nasty and hateful stuff in this thread. If I believed in god, I'd thank him for not being bigoted or racist, and fear for my country that there are people here who seem to take pleasure out of her misfortune.

rkeane

she created this problem. Why did she do this??? She had 2 innocent children and now they will be sent back to Nigeria.

bokspring71

rkeane wrote: »

she created this problem by her scamming, i will waive her off at the Airport.

You are probably right, and she is probably a horrible person. Probably her children are horrible too , by association, and we should also punish them with all available ferocity just because they are her children. ( For anyone with any doubt, this is a sarcastic post and I simply can't understand the desire many seem to have for taking delight in being as nasty as possible to this person and, more importantly, her children)

meditraitor

bokspring71 wrote: »

I was all for deporting her until I read some of the really nasty and hateful stuff in this thread. If I believed in god, I'd thank him for not being bigoted or racist, and fear for my country that there are people here who seem to take pleasure out of her misfortune.

What misfortune is that?

AlekSmart

I have posted, several times, that I would be ashamed to be Irish if Pamela was deported and this conviction was formed under the assumption that Elizabeth; a) lived and b) died from FGM. No one of you, although I may stand corrected, ever questioned the existence of Elizabeth based on evidence.

I have always from the outset of my contributions to this thread raised questions as to the veracity of Ms Izevbekhai`s claims.
I never considered their essential elements to be believable as they appeared to me to be almost "Scriptwritten" for a "Darkest Africa vs Enlightened Europe" production.

I have the greatest of respect for Blackiebest and others who support the Izevbekhai cause,but I do not agree with their stance full stop....that does not prevent me from reading,listening or appreciating their contributions,which I hope will continue long after the Izevbekhai Family have departed this country.

I believe that it is becoming accepted by most concerned that Pamela Izevbekhai and her machinations has inflicted grevious damage upon a vast number of Nigerian (and Other) peoples who are absolutely deserving of Asylum protection.
This situation has continued for far longer than it should and Ms Izevbekhai and her Legal Advisors must surely accept a great deal of blame for what is to come for those people.

So, if Elizabeth was never born and never died from FGM, If Pamela, Jemima and Naomi are deported, I will be a proud but very very upset Irishman. I will ponder the damage inflicted by the 'fraud' elements of this case for other people in genuine need of asylum and I will forever wonder did Pamela believe those documents were genuine up to last Friday! I will turn a cold shoulder to those of you who gloat and celebrate as Jemima and Naomi live through the worst imaginable mental nightmare young girls could suffe

I can easily see why you could be upset at the events you describe here.
However this is not a case where heavily armed Secret Policemen turn up to drag unwilling and un-cooperative deportees from their beds to pack them into cattle-wagons for onward shipment to some unknown destination.

Our Garda Authorities have always handled the deportation process with the utmost professionalism (Remember THEY are as human as the rest of us).
The responsibility for preparing and explaining the issue to her children falls squarely upon Pamela AND Tony Izevbekhai and one hopes they will be more truthful with them than they have been with the Irish people.

It is appropriate here to draw attention to the very clear Guarantees given by the Nigerian Ambassador in relation to the Izevbekhai family.
The Ambassador has on several recent occasions given the clearest assurances of their safety AND of further investigations to be carried out in Nigeria itself.

Nigeria as a democratic republic is as keen as any other to maintain it`s links with the west and with the EU in particular.
Ireland is now in a very strong position to use it`s new found influence on the back of this case to monitor and report back on how NIgeria meets its guarantees to both Pamela Izevbekhai AND the Irish people.

The only way the Deportation will meet Blackiebest`s bleak description is if the LTS campaign decide to make a Media "Event" of it which I believe would amount to a form of emotional abuse of the Izevbekhai children.

Surely it would now be better if the LTS campaign shifted the focus of their efforts to Nigeria and to the NIgerian Authorities,a move which might go to show their greater affinity for the greater body of asylum seekers rather than be seen as merely lining up to take a pop at the systems of their own Country.

Dan Akroyd

blackiebest wrote: »

It seems inevitable now that what will be a very traumatic deportation will take place. An entire school and community will be devastated when this takes place. I am searching for an understandable explanation to deliver to my 5 year old for when this happens.

quote ]

An entire school and community devastated? Youre having a laugh arent you.? It wouldnt occur to you somehow that the people of Sligo are extremely angry that they have been taken for a ride by this lying scammer. You honestly think the entire community here will be devastated if she gets booted out?

The PC brigade yes. Ordinary residents sick of bogus asylum seekers-definitely not.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Big_Mac

blackiebest wrote: »

Donegal, Big Mac, Alek et all.

I would think I have been one of the more regular posters from the 'Let them stay' side on this forum.

As soon as I read the article on Friday morning last I posted that if the report stood up then she should be deported although it kills me to do so, mainly because of her children and what will be happening in their little heads when put on the plane to Lagos.

I agree that it is extremely unfortunate that the children will suffer at the foot of this matter, but I would impress the point that the responsibility of this lies with Pamela and Tony, and not the Irish state for wanting to deport her.

I am not a member of a 'Let them Stay' campaign and only ever posted based on what I knew, or thought I knew, and only ever represented my own opinions.

Quite a number of us I feel have also done this from the other side of the story, but we and you no doubt have also been subject to abuse and accusations cast at us because we have posted on what we know and believe. Don't get me wrong, everyone is entitled to their opinion but when people post citing that we should do this or that because of the other (the one offers usually) people do (and rightly so imo) discredit their post because the claims that are made are completely unfounded.

I have posted, several times, that I would be ashamed to be Irish if Pamela was deported and this conviction was formed under the assumption that Elizabeth; a) lived and b) died from FGM. No one of you, although I may stand corrected, ever questioned the existence of Elizabeth based on evidence.

Up until this information came to light, this was never up for discussion, there was never any reason to question it. The basis for her arguement was that she should stay because of what had happened to one daughter and it is likely to happen to the others. Now the facts that her case is built on are falling away

It seems inevitable now that what will be a very traumatic deportation will take place. An entire school and community will be devastated when this takes place. I am searching for an understandable explanation to deliver to my 5 year old for when this happens.

Indeed, its not an easy thing to explain to a child, and I don't envy you.

The generalization of people who campaigned on Pamela's behalf is insulting and incorrect. I could rightly suggest that for every lucid post from the 'send her home' side there are 5 more displaying crass ignorance based on racist views. The "those people", "these type of people" etc posts are embarrassing and we as a society should do all we can to educate our children to treat all people, regardless of ethnic origin, with respect.

True, but a lot of these posters have had their rant and died off. For the majority of the time, this has been a reasonable if somewhat heated discussion without calling the race (or any other type of) card.

So, if Elizabeth was never born and never died from FGM, If Pamela, Jemima and Naomi are deported, I will be a proud but very very upset Irishman. I will ponder the damage inflicted by the 'fraud' elements of this case for other people in genuine need of asylum and I will forever wonder did Pamela believe those documents were genuine up to last Friday! I will turn a cold shoulder to those of you who gloat and celebrate as Jemima and Naomi live through the worst imaginable mental nightmare young girls could suffer.

Personally, I think there is nothing to gloat about here. Once the dust has settled here I will simply take satisfaction in the knowledge that our justice system has rang true. It is extremely unfortunate the forthcoming events that will transpire for the children, but aside from granting them leave to remain (out of the question tbh) what can anyone do about it? I would seriously look towards Pamela for this. She is ultimately responsible for what the children will have to go through.....

rkeane

Well said, nobody has said anything about her children, they have been used their mother in a really disgusting fashion. From my understand, her legal team are likely to withdraw from the case by wednesday, nobody will defend somebody who has clearly been deceitful. I would expect we will see her on a midnight flight very soon.

dodgyme

bokspring71 wrote: »

I was all for deporting her until I read some of the really nasty and hateful stuff in this thread.

are you for real. ? You now are not for deporting her because of things you read here. :rolleyes: How fickle the mind of the hydra.

Alcatel

rkeane wrote: »

Well said, nobody has said anything about her children, they have been used their mother in a really disgusting fashion. From my understand, her legal team are likely to withdraw from the case by wednesday, nobody will defend somebody who has clearly been deceitful. I would expect we will see her on a midnight flight very soon.

The fact that her legal team is withdrawing says a lot, as they're closer to the case than most.

Fact is that if you're explaining, you're losing. And this woman has a lot of explaining to do. The case is based on what happened to this daughter. Nobody questioned that she lived, they simply asked "Would the same actually happen to her other daughters?" Then we discover that the daughter who died quite possibly never lived.

I'd say the biggest danger she now faces is going home and being cast aside for bringing such disrepute upon the Nigerian people as regards FGM.

Softtouch

i dont want to generalise a nation but Nigeria is well know globally for its superpower status on scamming! just check all those spam email requesting your bank details...and credit where credit is due they are fairly up to speed in making money but just like its up to individuals to firewall these emails so too should the nations authorities "firewall" foreign scam artists and now that the whole basis for the arguement on staying in this county is based on a well rehersed and well voiced lie-time to say enough is enough.

how can a country the size of ireland be expected to take in so many "asylm seekers" and when you hear our leader brian cowen offering more space to Quantamo bay detainees my heart sinks further! with increasing tax hikes on the cards i think its time for a serious cost cutting excerise to be undertaken on non eu nationals. Towns like Mosney, Ballyhaunis and Galway are tunrning into ghettos for african nationals who are economic refugees fleeing what exactly? poverty? is that a basis for granting someone an indefinate stay in ireland at the cost of the tax payer? just remember that nigerias population in 2005 was 141 million! well that one way out of the housing problem!!

where are all the left wing grouping now that Pamela Izbevbekhai is a proven fraudster???

i just have a look at the letthemstay.org website, no update on that website about the lies? well then again i cant blame then, no one likes to be taken for a mug!

TomRooney

artyeva wrote: »

are you SERIOUSLY suggesting that ALL people from Nigeria that have gone through the asylum process have done so by illegal or dishonest means????:eek:

where's your proof??????

there is no war/conflict in Nigeria, therefore there are no real refygees or asylum seekers, just economic migrants, i have been told by someone in the know that over 98 percent of nigerian asylum seekers are fraudsters, and when this issue was brought up with the relevant minister the person was told just pass them through anyway or you will lose your job.

besides this they have no automatic right to live here its taht simple, the vast majority are fraudsters that is fact.

Big_Mac

TomRooney wrote: »

there is no war/conflict in Nigeria, therefore there are no real refygees or asylum seekers, just economic migrants, i have been told by someone in the know that over 98 percent of nigerian asylum seekers are fraudsters, and when this issue was brought up with the relevant minister the person was told just pass them through anyway or you will lose your job.

besides this they have no automatic right to live here its taht simple, the vast majority are fraudsters that is fact.

Are you puporting this to be proof?

artyeva

TomRooney wrote: »

i have been told by someone in the know that over 98 percent of nigerian asylum seekers are fraudsters, and when this issue was brought up with the relevant minister the person was told just pass them through anyway or you will lose your job.

what basis is your ''someone in the know'' using for this claim??????
what evidence do they have of this?????
have they individually investigated the circumstances of every single nigerian assylum seeker looking to enter this country and found their claims to be bogus???

have they???

TomRooney wrote: »

besides this they have no automatic right to live here its taht simple, the vast majority are fraudsters that is fact.

again - if you are claiming this to be fact what is your proof?????