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Pamela Izevbekhai - Should She Be Deported?

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    #1802
    dodgyme
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,581 ✭✭✭dodgyme


    TomRooney wrote: »
    there is no war/conflict in Nigeria, therefore there are no real refygees or asylum seekers, just economic migrants.

    Nothing will stop the bleeding heart liberals Tom. Nothing! They need a cause god love them. Pity they dont have to pay for it out of their own pockets though.


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    #1803
    EnigmasWhisper
    Registered Users Posts: 197 ✭✭EnigmasWhisper


    blackiebest wrote: »
    An entire school and community will be devastated when this takes place..

    lol You must be joking. I asume that an entire community will be very angry and embarrassed that a minority of naive do-gooders believed this womans lies. Kids are kids, they wont even remember who sat beside them in a few months. People like you however will be remembered as an embarrassment to the people of Ireland for a very long time indeed.
    blackiebest wrote: »
    The "those people", "these type of people" etc posts are embarrassing and we as a society should do all we can to educate our children to treat all people, regardless of ethnic origin, with respect...

    Thats the problem with this country recently, we became afraid to speak out and stand up to 'these type of people' for fear of being racist. Well thankfuly times are changing, as are the people of Ireland. 'Those people' who come here under false pretenses (dont they all lie about having got a direct flight here in the first place ?) and take advantage of our system dont belong here. Ireland or any country doesnt accept or condone 'those type of people' breaking our immigration laws or producing false claims to support their stay here. If one of 'those people' cant legally prove they arent entitled to be here, they shouldnt be here.....simple. I for one dont give a damn if that sounds racist or not, and people like me thank goodness are in the majority.
    blackiebest wrote: »
    I will turn a cold shoulder to those of you who gloat and celebrate as Jemima and Naomi live through the worst imaginable mental nightmare young girls could suffer.

    Worst imaginable mental nightmare ever lol They are moving school, leaving friends behind and going home to their native country. Hardly mental torture for Gods sake. I was moved from school to another country as a child, I didnt need electric shock treatment to get over it . . . . 'the worst imaginable mental torture' they wont even remember it in a few yrs, I doubt they will be on prozac

    By the way I have a friend who worked with a charity in Nigeria for a few mths. They actually have community advice centres set up in houses on how to take advanage of countries with soft immigration laws . . . guess what country is top of the list ? Oh and there is no war there. As for Genital mutilation there my informed friend claims that it is almost non existant and is practised by just a couple of tribes of over 300 and even then its very rare. This Pamela womans claims are as absurd as they are ridiculous.


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    #1804
    Big_Mac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 991 ✭✭✭Big_Mac


    EnigmasWhisper wrote: »
    lol You must be joking. I asume that an entire community will be very angry and embarrassed that a minority of naive do-gooders believed this womans lies. Kids are kids, they wont even remember who sat beside them in a few months. People like you however will be remembered as an embarrassment to the people of Ireland for a very long time indeed.

    Enigma, unless you reside in the community that Pamela and her children are currently in, you are not in a position to make assumptions about how they will feel. Blackiebest on the other hand does, and will feel the impact when their child is looking for an explanation as to why the children are removed.
    Thats the problem with this country recently, we became afraid to speak out and stand up to 'these type of people' for fear of being racist. Well thankfuly times are changing, as are the people of Ireland. 'Those people' who come here under false pretenses (dont they all lie about having got a direct flight here in the first place ?) and take advantage of our system dont belong here. Ireland or any country doesnt accept or condone 'those type of people' breaking our immigration laws or producing false claims to support their stay here. If one of 'those people' cant legally prove they arent entitled to be here, they shouldnt be here.....simple. I for one dont give a damn if that sounds racist or not, and people like me thank goodness are in the majority.

    Points can be made and voices can be aired without resorting to 'these people' remarks and racist sweeping generalisations.
    Unless you can conclusively prove that every single nigerian asylum seeker was and indded is bogus, your comments are very easliy interpreted as racist.

    Worst imaginable mental nightmare ever lol They are moving school, leaving friends behind and going home to their native country. Hardly mental torture for Gods sake. I was moved from school to another country as a child, I didnt need electric shock treatment to get over it . . . . 'the worst imaginable mental torture' they wont even remember it in a few yrs, I doubt they will be on prozac

    Your personal experience is irellevent here unless you were deported for a failing to secure asylum.


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    #1805
    EnigmasWhisper
    Registered Users Posts: 197 ✭✭EnigmasWhisper


    Hmmm I notice nobody is discussing the 'very real' threat of geneital mutilation in IRELAND ? Are we to expect Pamela will seek asylum elsewhere if Irelands economic situation should get worse, because of the threat of geneital mutilation to her and ther children here, in DUBLIN ????????? See link below.


    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/prosecutions-ordered-onfemale-mutilation-cases-353169.html


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    #1806
    VO
    Closed Accounts Posts: 112 ✭✭VO


    Have not had time to read all of the posts on this topic. However, I feel that this woman has done a lot of damage to the cause of genuine Asylum Seekers (Not Economic ones). There have been question marks from the beginning about this case in relation to whether she did or did not have a holiday or visitors visa for the UK in the first instance and if this was how she arrived in Ireland. There have been doubts raised about the way she claims to have entered Ireland. Now we discover that the documentation she has been using is falsified. It is quite clear that at the very least that she has told a lot of lies ot strengthen her case.. I believe that however unfortunate the consequences the government must deport the family or once again we will be seen as a soft touch and I believe that given the information now availble they have good reason to.


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    #1807
    meditraitor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,207 ✭✭✭meditraitor


    We as a nation offer asylum to anyone deserved of it and rightly so.

    We are lucky enough to be in a position to offer asylum and human rights but we cannot be made feel guilty for following the law we have set up to process asylum applicants which I believe to be fair and just.

    She is a proven fraud and needs to be treated like one.

    Deport her now


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    #1808
    EnigmasWhisper
    Registered Users Posts: 197 ✭✭EnigmasWhisper


    Big_Mac wrote: »
    Enigma, unless you reside in the community that Pamela and her children are currently in, you are not in a position to make assumptions about how they will feel. Blackiebest on the other hand does, and will feel the impact when their child is looking for an explanation as to why the children are removed..

    Im pretty sure that any child psychologist anywhere in the world will testify that kids being moved from school and their home isnt a 'nightmarish mental torture' Blackiebest is in no position to offer a psychologial analysis of the mental anguish moving school will impact on the children, nor is he in a 'postion' to speak for the 20,000 inhabitants of Sligo
    Big_Mac wrote: »
    Points can be made and voices can be aired without resorting to 'these people' remarks and racist sweeping generalisations.
    Unless you can conclusively prove that every single nigerian asylum seeker was and indded is bogus, your comments are very easliy interpreted as racist...

    Thats the point Im trying to make. I dont care if my comments are perceived as racist or not, nor do I pay any attention to the pc liberal do-gooder brigade. Irish people are beginning to stand up to being taken advantage of, and your 'racist' chants are falling on deaf ears.

    I and the majority of Irish people dont give a damn how you interpret my comments. Shes a liar, she has no legal right to be here, shes going home !

    I dont have to prove that all asylum seekers are bogus, the ones that arent deserve to be here. The courts and immigration authorities are proving that most of 'these peoples' claims are bogus and thus they have no legal right to be here.

    Ireland is no longer the laughing stock of the world with regards to immigration policy.
    Big_Mac wrote: »
    Your personal experience is irellevent here unless you were deported for a failing to secure asylum.

    What personal experience did I say I had ? I believe it was my friends account of Nigeria that I put forward. What personal experience do you have and how are you in any way relevant ?

    THOSE THAT DESERVE TO BE HERE AND CAN PROVE THEY ARE PERSECUTED STAY

    THOSE THAT CANT, THAT LIE OR MAKE BOGUS CLAIMS ARE DEPORTED

    SHE AND HER FAMILY SHOULD BE DEPORTED

    SEND THEM HOME !


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    #1809
    blueythebear
    Registered Users Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭blueythebear


    EnigmasWhisper wrote: »
    lol You must be joking. I asume that an entire community will be very angry and embarrassed that a minority of naive do-gooders believed this womans lies. Kids are kids, they wont even remember who sat beside them in a few months. People like you however will be remembered as an embarrassment to the people of Ireland for a very long time indeed.

    Thats the problem with this country recently, we became afraid to speak out and stand up to 'these type of people' for fear of being racist. Well thankfuly times are changing, as are the people of Ireland. 'Those people' who come here under false pretenses (dont they all lie about having got a direct flight here in the first place ?) and take advantage of our system dont belong here. Ireland or any country doesnt accept or condone 'those type of people' breaking our immigration laws or producing false claims to support their stay here. If one of 'those people' cant legally prove they arent entitled to be here, they shouldnt be here.....simple. I for one dont give a damn if that sounds racist or not, and people like me thank goodness are in the majority.

    Worst imaginable mental nightmare ever lol They are moving school, leaving friends behind and going home to their native country. Hardly mental torture for Gods sake. I was moved from school to another country as a child, I didnt need electric shock treatment to get over it . . . . 'the worst imaginable mental torture' they wont even remember it in a few yrs, I doubt they will be on prozac

    By the way I have a friend who worked with a charity in Nigeria for a few mths. They actually have community advice centres set up in houses on how to take advanage of countries with soft immigration laws . . . guess what country is top of the list ? Oh and there is no war there. As for Genital mutilation there my informed friend claims that it is almost non existant and is practised by just a couple of tribes of over 300 and even then its very rare. This Pamela womans claims are as absurd as they are ridiculous.

    I have to row in here. It would seem that this particular lady's case indeed is very damaging to the genuine asylum seeker. This is shown by the level of anti-Nigerian (borderline racist) sentiment being shown in this discussion. I do believe in this particular case, there are falsified documents and that this woman should return to Nigeria, but that's not to say that all Nigerians are scam artists. There have been and will be genuine refugees from Nigeria.

    As for the above...

    i) Those people in Sligo who have supported Pamela and her kids (and there are many of them even if they were mistaken as to her claims) , I'm sure would be very upset over this. Imagine if a friend of yours was removed from the country. Wouldn't you be worried/upset that you wouldn't see them anymore?

    ii) "dont they all lie about having got a direct flight here in the first place ?" - No they don't. This is because there are no direct flights from Nigeria to Dublin. They all come through another airport although only as a connecting flight. It would be stupid to lie about this.

    iii) I agree that there won't be a major psychological effect on the children long term as children are resilient and can easily adjust in this regard. It would still have a negative effect on them in the short term.

    iv) Your "friend" is misinformed about Nigeria. I must assume from his comments that he only stayed in one area and didn't travel widely. Nigeria is a huge country and there is an armed conflict happening right now over oil rights in the Niger Delta region. FGM is practised in the country although I think the levels are less than 20%. If you want to have a look at the information on this, have a look at www.ecoi.net where you will find some interesting and impartial reports on the state of things in Nigeria, who will give you better information than your "friend".


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    #1810
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    I do think that people are losing sight of the basic facts here.

    Let's forget where she or her family is from for a moment - indeed, let's even forget that this is an asylum case.

    It appears that ultimately what it comes down to is that a person attempted to commit fraud in the courts. That it may be a photogenic family, with cute kids, really should not be an issue here, no more than if an Irish mother had been found to have purgered herself in court. Or a property developer. These children, or the presumed 'damage' to the community can't really be used as a shield to make someone immune to the consequences of a crime, and regardless of the reasons for this crime, that is what falsifying documents used as evidence in court is.

    I'm sorry, but that is the bottom line and "won't someone think of the children" should not shield people from it.


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    #1811
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    artyeva wrote: »
    again - if you are claiming this to be fact what is your proof?????
    I don't know about fact or proof, but you'll have to admit that this case, like the Olunkunle Eluhanla case (that also resulted in a few red faces), isn't exactly helping people's perception of Nigerians in Ireland.

    In many ways this is unfair - I've worked with Nigerians, and known some socially, and cases like this are a serious pain in the gonads for them too. Problem is though, they do keep on occurring and no one can deny that this does not help public perception, regardless of the statistics might be.
    blueythebear wrote: »
    i) Those people in Sligo who have supported Pamela and her kids (and there are many of them even if they were mistaken as to her claims) , I'm sure would be very upset over this. Imagine if a friend of yours was removed from the country. Wouldn't you be worried/upset that you wouldn't see them anymore?
    Hasn't Michael Lowry's community supported him too, by re-electing him, despite his effective disgrace on charges of corruption and tax evasion? Should we drop all investigations or charges of wrongdoing, whenever a community supports someone?


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    #1812
    blueythebear
    Registered Users Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭blueythebear


    The Corinthian wrote: »
    I don't know about fact or proof, but you'll have to admit that this case, like the Olunkunle Eluhanla case (that also resulted in a few red faces), isn't exactly helping people's perception of Nigerians in Ireland.

    In many ways this is unfair - I've worked with Nigerians, and known some socially, and cases like this are a serious pain in the gonads for them too. Problem is though, they do keep on occurring and no one can deny that this does not help public perception, regardless of the statistics might be.

    Hasn't Michael Lowry's community supported him too, by re-electing him, despite his effective disgrace on charges of corruption and tax evasion? Should we drop all investigations or charges of wrongdoing, whenever a community supports someone?

    You misunderstand me. I'm not saying anything about the rights or wrongs of this case with that point. Enigmas Whisper scoffed at people being upset about her having to leave. I was just pointing out that people would be upset is all.

    Where I stand on the issue is that when I first heard her claims I thought she was not a refugee by law but was worthy of some form of international protection but that was presuming the whole thing was kosher. Now I know her claims are fraudulent and I would have no hesitation in recommending she be deported in that case. Nobody should be allowed to stay if their application has been shown to be false or if there are serious questions as to the credibility of the applicant.


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    #1813
    ParkRunner
    Registered Users Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭ParkRunner


    It is starting to get a bit annoying some of the comments that are coming out in Pamela's favour. The one that I find difficult to understand is the comments that the State did not investigate the credibility of Pamela's story until now.

    It seems that the onus is on the State to put massive resources into investigating every asylum application, which may be riddled with inconsitencies regarding how they got here, what they claim their fears are, the documents presented in support of their claim etc.

    The onus is on the applicant to present the facts and provide evidence to support their claim! If they were in such a dire situation that they had to flee their country, such as a civil war, then there would be evidence to support this. The evidence would support their claim and asylum would be granted, if not at first instance, then on appeal.

    If the Minister were to investigate the credibility of every asylum applicant's story and make a decision on the authenticity of every document, the credibility of the travel route taken and any other inconsistencies and make a call as to the credibility of all issues, he would be leaving himself wide open to judicial reviews and an anxious scrutiny of his decision in the High Court. It would also take months to do the amount of work required to disprove all the credibility issues and leave the asylum system in a shambles. Hence the reason why the credibility issue was not raised until now.

    A genuine asylum seeker with evidence that their child had suffered FGM and died and fears a real risk that her 2 young daughters will be subjected to the same procedure would have been of great benefit in relation to highlighting the issue of FGM and the failure by the Nigerian authorities to punish those guilty of performing FGM.

    Instead, Pamela and her husband through their greed and irresponsible acts have caused huge damage to their own integrity and have damaged the reputation of Nigeria not only in Ireland but across Europe! The continued support of her and her case is only exacerbating the damage she has caused. And all she can say is, I didn't know?


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    #1814
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #1815
    Big_Mac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 991 ✭✭✭Big_Mac


    EnigmasWhisper wrote: »
    Im pretty sure that any child psychologist anywhere in the world will testify that kids being moved from school and their home isnt a 'nightmarish mental torture' Blackiebest is in no position to offer a psychologial analysis of the mental anguish moving school will impact on the children, nor is he in a 'postion' to speak for the 20,000 inhabitants of Sligo

    Fair enough, but unless you are in a position to offer a psychological analysis to refute what blackiebest is saying, then you can't really talk either

    As a resident of Sligo, blackiebest is in a far better position to speak for the community of people that will be affected by this, as am I. Are you a Sligo resident?
    Thats the point Im trying to make. I dont care if my comments are perceived as racist or not, nor do I pay any attention to the pc liberal do-gooder brigade. Irish people are beginning to stand up to being taken advantage of, and your 'racist' chants are falling on deaf ears.
    Did I make racist chants? Where?
    I and the majority of Irish people dont give a damn how you interpret my comments.

    Are you an appointed representative of the people? Have you conducted a nationwide poll to come to this conclusion?
    What personal experience did I say I had ? I believe it was my friends account of Nigeria that I put forward. What personal experience do you have and how are you in any way relevant ?
    Your personal experience of having to move schools as a child. Have you forgotten that?

    I was moved from school to another country as a child, I didnt need electric shock treatment to get over it . . . .

    You don't seem to be putting forth any sort of rational discussion on this. Your posts are made up of wild assumptions none of which you have any evidence to back up. I see no point in discussing this with you further.


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    #1816
    EnigmasWhisper
    Registered Users Posts: 197 ✭✭EnigmasWhisper


    blueythebear wrote: »
    This is shown by the level of anti-Nigerian (borderline racist) sentiment being shown in this discussion ".

    Again, I care less about you or anyone perceiving what I say to be 'borderline' racist. The racist stick has been used to beat rational logical oppinion and law down for too long in this country. Its an American phenomenon dished out by the PC brigade against anybody that dare speak out against a person of another culture. This 'racist' tag isnt relevant to me or the majority of Irish people, nor does what you perceive what I say is 'borderline' racist.

    She lied, by law she has no right to be here, and she has to be deported. I dont give a sh*t if she is white, black, yellow, or pink with blue polka dots, she has to go. Once again. nobody cares about being tagged 'racist' these days, shout it to the skys, it doesnt give you or frauds like Pamela a free ride in this country anymore.
    blueythebear wrote: »
    i) Those people in Sligo who have supported Pamela and her kids (and there are many of them even if they were mistaken as to her claims) , I'm sure would be very upset over this. Imagine if a friend of yours was removed from the country. Wouldn't you be worried/upset that you wouldn't see them anymore?

    "Those people"...Careful now, that expression could conceivably be seen to be 'borderline racist' Im very upset she wasted almost E500,000 of taxpayers money. Im very upset we have to pay for her flight home. Im very upset that I have to waste my time listening to silly naive clowns from the 'Let Them Stay' club. If as a young child my friend was removed from my school because their family were here illegaly, Id cry for a day, then I suspect after a week Id be more worried about a new pair of nike airs.

    blueythebear wrote: »
    ii) "dont they all lie about having got a direct flight here in the first place ?" - No they don't. This is because there are no direct flights from Nigeria to Dublin. They all come through another airport although only as a connecting flight. It would be stupid to lie about this.

    Oh I believe they do, or used to, that was one of the clauses allowing them to claim asylum in an EU state. It would be stupid to lie about the threat of mutilation and birth certificatres also wouldnt it ?
    blueythebear wrote: »
    iii) I agree that there won't be a major psychological effect on the children long term as children are resilient and can easily adjust in this regard. It would still have a negative effect on them in the short term..

    Lots of things are upsetting to children in the short term, hardly a reason for people to remain here illegaly.
    blueythebear wrote: »
    iv) Your "friend" is misinformed about Nigeria. I must assume from his comments that he only stayed in one area and didn't travel widely. Nigeria is a huge country and there is an armed conflict happening right now over oil rights in the Niger Delta region. FGM is practised in the country although I think the levels are less than 20%. If you want to have a look at the information on this, have a look at www.ecoi.net where you will find some interesting and impartial reports on the state of things in Nigeria, who will give you better information than your "friend".

    Have you been to Nigeria ? So am I to trust your account taken from soundbites off the media and various sources, rather than somebody who has actually been to the country...i.e my 'friend' ? When are you visiting Nigeria again, perhaps you would like to escort Pamela and save us all money ? I suspect you my 'friend' are misinformed about many things.

    SHE HAS NO LEGAL RIGHT TO BE HERE / DEPORT HER


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    #1817
    EnigmasWhisper
    Registered Users Posts: 197 ✭✭EnigmasWhisper


    Big_Mac wrote: »
    Fair enough, but unless you are in a position to offer a psychological analysis to refute what blackiebest is saying, then you can't really talk either.

    You dont need a Masters in Psychology to assertain that children taken from a school and sent home isnt a severe 'nightmare mental trauma', certainly not enough to excuse their parents from breaking our laws and attempting to remain here illegally. I hazzard a guess that I am more qualified academically than 'blackiest' in offering the a basic psychological analysis on children with regards to any 'seperation' anxiety caused by taking them from their school friends...lets keep things in perspective shall we and not get silly :)
    Big_Mac wrote: »
    As a resident of Sligo, blackiebest is in a far better position to speak for the community of people that will be affected by this, as am I. Are you a Sligo resident?.

    Im a resident of Dublin, and I am certainly not qualified to offer a generalised consensus as to how many people in Dublin were upset by the deportation of a few Nigerians last month. I would seem very idiotic if I was of the oppinion that because I reside in a certain geographical area, that it also offers me a better insight into the feeling of an entire community. That would be very very very silly of me now wouldnt it :) How old are you by the way ?
    Big_Mac wrote: »
    Did I make racist chants? Where??.

    By merely mentioning the word 'racist' you are repeating the well trodden 'chant' and mantra of your PC Tribe.
    Big_Mac wrote: »
    Are you an appointed representative of the people? Have you conducted a nationwide poll to come to this conclusion???.

    Are you ? Oh Im pretty sure judging by the outrage expressed through the media and amongst people I meet professionaly and socially every day I have my finger on the pulse ;) Wasnt there a poll done a few yrs ago where the vast majority of people said they believed our immigration laws were far too easily manipulated, and from what I remember the vast majority of those polled wanted these frauds and liars out as soon as possible. Let me get back to you on that one, as Ill have to research it more and get my sources correct.

    Are you seriously telling me that Ireland wants these liars and frauds here taking advantage of us and our system ? I dont know what country you live in, but I suspect you have your own galaxy.
    Big_Mac wrote: »
    Your personal experience of having to move schools as a child. Have you forgotten that????.

    Hmmm good point, I dont remember...but maybe thats my way of dealing with it, I might have built a wall to protect myself from the angst. I do remember my lunchbox being stolen by a guy with red hair, the trauma of that has stayed with me since. My nephew was taken out of school to move to Spain, should I suggest electric shock therapy ?
    Big_Mac wrote: »
    You don't seem to be putting forth any sort of rational discussion on this. Your posts are made up of wild assumptions none of which you have any evidence to back up. I see no point in discussing this with you further.

    As opposed to some reasoning she should stay because maybe shes a nice woman and her kids will be upset leaving school. I dont believe its possible to have a rational discussion with people who defend someone whom so blatantly breaks our laws, or indeed suggests that she should stay because of the trauma her children will experience. It would be akin to having a conversation with a tree, although tree bark would possibly reply with more logic and sense than some of these ridiculous 'let her stay' clowns


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    #1818
    EnigmasWhisper
    Registered Users Posts: 197 ✭✭EnigmasWhisper


    blackiebest wrote: »
    Enigmaswispers

    You are the type that makes me cringe at sharing nationality. Mods do your worst. You are a tit and represent all that I hate. Laugh out loud at what these two lovely girls will go through? right or wrong it is hell on earth for them and your mentality challenges the link between animal and man.

    You are a disgrace.

    *Edit* Whatever your opinion on this case there are two young children who had no hand act or part in this debacle, nobody has the right to laugh out loud at the predicament.

    Thats a bit harsh, my heart bleeds :( I suspect Ill need therapy, and tranquilsers for years to get over that. Do you think colour therapy might help me ? Hell on earth to be moved from their school ? Hmmmm I think you are closer to the animal kingdom than me, a cuckoo comes to mind but Im not going to resort to your petty insults, thats what people resort to when they are cornered and helpless to defend themselves. Although I do suspect you get panic attacks seeing a dead mouse, I can only imagine the 'nightmarish mental trauma' that causes you :( . .

    'Mods do your worst' Why would the mods do their worst, because someone disagrees with you and you dont like what they say ?Then again you people must feel very insecure being a minority, with egg on your faces, again and again. I dont remember laughing out loud, but I am now lol :)


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    #1819
    blackiebest
    Registered Users Posts: 650 ✭✭✭blackiebest


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Fair comment


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    #1820
    blueythebear
    Registered Users Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭blueythebear


    EnigmasWhisper wrote: »
    Again, I care less about you or anyone perceiving what I say to be 'borderline' racist. The racist stick has been used to beat rational logical oppinion and law down for too long in this country. Its an American phenomenon dished out by the PC brigade against anybody that dare speak out against a person of another culture. This 'racist' tag isnt relevant to me or the majority of Irish people, nor does what you perceive what I say is 'borderline' racist.

    She lied, by law she has no right to be here, and she has to be deported. I dont give a sh*t if she is white, black, yellow, or pink with blue polka dots, she has to go. Once again. nobody cares about being tagged 'racist' these days, shout it to the skys, it doesnt give you or frauds like Pamela a free ride in this country anymore.

    "Those people"...Careful now, that expression could conceivably be seen to be 'borderline racist' Im very upset she wasted almost E500,000 of taxpayers money. Im very upset we have to pay for her flight home. Im very upset that I have to waste my time listening to silly naive clowns from the 'Let Them Stay' club. If as a young child my friend was removed from my school because their family were here illegaly, Id cry for a day, then I suspect after a week Id be more worried about a new pair of nike airs.

    Oh I believe they do, or used to, that was one of the clauses allowing them to claim asylum in an EU state. It would be stupid to lie about the threat of mutilation and birth certificatres also wouldnt it ?

    Lots of things are upsetting to children in the short term, hardly a reason for people to remain here illegaly.

    Have you been to Nigeria ? So am I to trust your account taken from soundbites off the media and various sources, rather than somebody who has actually been to the country...i.e my 'friend' ? When are you visiting Nigeria again, perhaps you would like to escort Pamela and save us all money ? I suspect you my 'friend' are misinformed about many things.

    SHE HAS NO LEGAL RIGHT TO BE HERE / DEPORT HER


    If you bothered to read my post, you'd see that I agree that she has no right to be here and that she should be deported as she has been exposed as a fraud.

    I'm not a member of the PC brigade as you put it. Your comments are borderline racist in that you seem to be branding all Nigerians as fraudulent asylum seekers. They're not and there are some genuine cases of Nigerian refugees. The country of origin information I pointed you towards bears that out as well as individual decisions (yes there were plenty of successful refugees from Nigeria in 2008, I don't have the total figures to hand but I'm sure they can be obtained from the ORAC handily enough).

    I'm as unhappy as you are about the waste of taxpayers money. However, I believe that her legal team have a culpability here too in that they persisted with what seems to be at best a borderline case. That said, she should bear the brunt of the blame here and I feel that the State should chase her for legal costs (they don't normally bother in these matters) at the least seeing as she apparently is a woman of some means.

    I have not been to Nigeria. My "account taken from soundbites off the media and various sources" only comes from reputable sources. NONE of it comes from soundbites from the media. The sources I have seen that back my information up include the British Home Office, the US Department of State, Amnesty Internation, Human Rights Watch,Freedom House and the UN High Commissioner for Refugees. All reputable organisations and have spent more than a "few months" in Nigeria and most importantly would tend to corroborate each others' accounts, as opposed to the stories of your single "friend".

    "it doesnt give you or frauds like Pamela a free ride in this country anymore" - don't get this comment. How exactly am I getting lumped in with Pamela Izevhebeki now? How was I getting a "free ride" in this country up till now?


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    #1821
    blackiebest
    Registered Users Posts: 650 ✭✭✭blackiebest


    EnigmasWhisper wrote: »
    As opposed to some reasoning she should stay because maybe shes a nice woman and her kids will be upset leaving school. I dont believe its possible to have a rational discussion with people who defend someone whom so blatantly breaks our laws, or indeed suggests that she should stay because of the trauma her children will experience. It would be akin to having a conversation with a tree, although tree bark would possibly reply with more logic and sense than some of these ridiculous 'let her stay' clowns

    Hah, BigMac, thanks for all your efforts in defending Pamelas claim to asylum. I am honestly enjoying this marvelous interjection. Go on Enigma, you really have your finger on the pulse


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    #1822
    GuanYin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,552 ✭✭✭✭GuanYin


    Guys, tone it down and keep it civil.

    Enigmaswhisper, your style of confrontational posting is neither welcome nor unnoticed.

    Further posts in this styling by anyone will not sparkle with me.

    If you have anything to say about this, DO NOT POST IT HERE. You can PM me.

    /moderation.


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    #1823
    Big_Mac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 991 ✭✭✭Big_Mac


    blackiebest wrote: »
    Hah, BigMac, thanks for all your efforts in defending Pamelas claim to asylum. I am honestly enjoying this marvelous interjection. Go on Enigma, you really have your finger on the pulse

    No problem. Its nice to know that all my hard efforts to have her stay have been worth it ;) I can take being attacked for something I said, but for something I didn't even say? I'm miffed.

    Newsflash Enigma: Before you decide to draw conclusions on posters here at least have the decency to read what they have said. If you did, then you would have already noticed that I have been posting here with a view of having the deportation order enacted for months, namely because I didn't buy any of her story.

    Not the converse as you have quoted previously


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    #1824
    EnigmasWhisper
    Registered Users Posts: 197 ✭✭EnigmasWhisper


    blueythebear wrote: »
    If you bothered to read my post, you'd see that I agree that she has no right to be here and that she should be deported as she has been exposed as a fraud

    Fair enough
    blueythebear wrote: »
    I'm not a member of the PC brigade as you put it. Your comments are borderline racist in that you seem to be branding all Nigerians as fraudulent asylum seekers. They're not and there are some genuine cases of Nigerian refugees. The country of origin information I pointed you towards bears that out as well as individual decisions (yes there were plenty of successful refugees from Nigeria in 2008, I don't have the total figures to hand but I'm sure they can be obtained from the ORAC handily enough)

    I am branding a lot of them as fraudulent asylum seekers, why does that make me racist . . .although I care less if it does. Some are genuine, statistically more are not genuine. There may have been plenty of successful ones, but Im guessing (wihtout basis) that there were far more unsucessful ones.

    blueythebear wrote: »
    I'm as unhappy as you are about the waste of taxpayers money. However, I believe that her legal team have a culpability here too in that they persisted with what seems to be at best a borderline case. That said, she should bear the brunt of the blame here and I feel that the State should chase her for legal costs (they don't normally bother in these matters) at the least seeing as she apparently is a woman of some means.)

    Im unhappy and very angry, as I assume most Irish people are. Her legal team only tried to progress their own careers, as all legal eagles do. I suspect they were more concerned with breaking new ground than they were with her. Having said that, I agree its entirely her and her husbands fault and while I believe that everybody is entitled to all avenues of law open to them in a democracy, surely there should be limitations in how far and how much of our money she can spend...its obscene.
    blueythebear wrote: »
    I have not been to Nigeria. My "account taken from soundbites off the media and various sources" only comes from reputable sources. NONE of it comes from soundbites from the media. The sources I have seen that back my information up include the British Home Office, the US Department of State, Amnesty Internation, Human Rights Watch,Freedom House and the UN High Commissioner for Refugees. All reputable organisations and have spent more than a "few months" in Nigeria and most importantly would tend to corroborate each others' accounts, as opposed to the stories of your single "friend"..)

    Point taken, although from everything my 'friend' has told me and all that I have sourced, GM is very rare and practised by a minority and only in certain regions . . .where is this lady from ?
    blueythebear wrote: »
    "it doesnt give you or frauds like Pamela a free ride in this country anymore" - don't get this comment. How exactly am I getting lumped in with Pamela Izevhebeki now? How was I getting a "free ride" in this country up till now?

    I was assuming you were of the PC brigade, and meant that perhaps you had your voice heard a little too loudly over the past few years, and people like the darling Pamela have had a free ride compared to other countries immigration laws


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    #1825
    EnigmasWhisper
    Registered Users Posts: 197 ✭✭EnigmasWhisper


    Big_Mac wrote: »
    No problem. Its nice to know that all my hard efforts to have her stay have been worth it ;) I can take being attacked for something I said, but for something I didn't even say? I'm miffed.

    Newsflash Enigma: Before you decide to draw conclusions on posters here at least have the decency to read what they have said. If you did, then you would have already noticed that I have been posting here with a view of having the deportation order enacted for months, namely because I didn't buy any of her story.

    Not the converse as you have quoted previously

    I hadnt read your previous posts . . I will now ;)


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    #1826
    blackiebest
    Registered Users Posts: 650 ✭✭✭blackiebest


    EnigmasWhisper wrote: »
    I hadnt read your previous posts . . I will now ;)

    Maybe it might be an idea to read peoples posts before deciding where they stand on a topic. you appear to be a new poster in this thread and although it is often a heated and contested debate, it is, in the main, conducted in a mature manner by adults who share opposing views but a mutual respect for each other.

    Gloating over the deportation of two children will, I suspect, do you no favours in this forum.


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    #1827
    blueythebear
    Registered Users Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭blueythebear


    EnigmasWhisper wrote: »
    Fair enough

    I am branding a lot of them as fraudulent asylum seekers, why does that make me racist . . .although I care less if it does. Some are genuine, statistically more are not genuine. There may have been plenty of successful ones, but Im guessing (wihtout basis) that there were far more unsucessful ones.

    Im unhappy and very angry, as I assume most Irish people are. Her legal team only tried to progress their own careers, as all legal eagles do. I suspect they were more concerned with breaking new ground than they were with her. Having said that, I agree its entirely her and her husbands fault and while I believe that everybody is entitled to all avenues of law open to them in a democracy, surely there should be limitations in how far and how much of our money she can spend...its obscene.

    Point taken, although from everything my 'friend' has told me and all that I have sourced, GM is very rare and practised by a minority and only in certain regions . . .where is this lady from ?

    I was assuming you were of the PC brigade, and meant that perhaps you had your voice heard a little too loudly over the past few years, and people like the darling Pamela have had a free ride compared to other countries immigration laws

    When you put it as above, you sound reasonable and alot more rational. There ARE alot more unsuccessful asylum seekers from Nigeria than successful ones (although that is to be expected as the Minister has deemed Nigeria a safe country which increases the burden of proof for asylum seekers). I was calling you out on your previous posts, which were "borderline racist" in their tone and phrasing. However, just because someone wasn't granted asylum, it doesn't mean it was a fraudulent claim, it just means the applicant didn't fit into the definition of a refugee which is strictly applied.

    In terms of the costs to the State, this is due to the amount of appeals, etc she has had, I'm afraid that her legal team has encouraged these. With them working pro bono, they know they're not going to get paid so they'll take a punt on a dodgy judicial review in order to get paid costs if they win.

    In terms of the case itself, there must have been credibility issues with her story from a long time ago as the Minister refused to give her permission to apply for subsidiary protection. She currently has a judicial review pending of this decision by the minister. If there was a death cert due to FGM as well as a consistent and cogent account of the circumstances surrounding this, I cannot see how the Minister would refuse to allow her even make an an application for subsidiary protection based on this. This case obviously had credibility issues for a long time previous to these recent revelations.


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    #1828
    EnigmasWhisper
    Registered Users Posts: 197 ✭✭EnigmasWhisper


    blackiebest wrote: »
    Maybe it might be an idea to read peoples posts before deciding where they stand on a topic. you appear to be a new poster in this thread and although it is often a heated and contested debate, it is, in the main, conducted in a mature manner by adults who share opposing views but a mutual respect for each other.

    Gloating over the deportation of two children will, I suspect, do you no favours in this forum.

    Perhaps it might be an idea for you to take less of a condascending tone with fellow boarders in future. As to what favours I would expect or care about, Im not aware that I care. Im also not sure if comparing me to an animal (not by you ) however amusing, is 'mature' or adult. Kindly keep your advise to yourself, Ill ask for it when required or indeed when I measure you as qualified or important enough to offer it.

    Back to the point in question

    My understanding is that producing a false birth certificate to support an application is an offence under the official refugee act. As she is continuing to lie and allege she had no knowledge of the false doculments until her husband told her a few days ago, then she is clearly claiming that he has commited a crime. That and the fact that neither of them can explain why they cant simply obtain a death certificate from the goverment for her alleged dead child, seems to finally bang the nail into this long, expensive and embarrassing episode in Irish immigration law. Naturally most intelligent and sane observers knew this was lady was a fraud from early in the case when holes started to appear in her defence.

    As for gloating, I make no appology for taking satisfaction in seeing criminals having the law (one they attempted to make a mockery of ) feel its full fource upon them, finally. So when she does board her plane, I for one will be smiling broadly. I take no satisfaction in seeing her children being dragged into all this, and I think its dispicable that she has used them as pawns. Nevertheless Im not overly concerned about the mental anguish
    and 'nightmarish mental trauma' that a previous poster seemed to expect they might go through. Kids are resiliant and will move on with their lives, wherever the geographical location . . darling Pamela will have to do the same, whilst Im sure spending all her life in an abyss of remorse over the E500,000 of our money she wasted, or indeed we wasted on her. The best thing that has come out of all this is that it might just send another clear message to many more like her. Ireland isnt the generous fool it was, things have changed.

    Shes going home !

    Night, night boys and girls :)


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    #1829
    The Raven.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,008 ✭✭✭The Raven.


    Has anyone seen Questions and Answers tonight? Simon Coveney is still trying to push the ProPam agenda of the mother trying to protect her children at all costs. All the lies and fake documents were considered irrelevant, as the end justifies the means. No mention was given to the potential for a plethora of copycat applicants waiting in the wings.


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    #1830
    TomRooney
    Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭TomRooney


    The Corinthian wrote: »
    I do think that people are losing sight of the basic facts here.

    Let's forget where she or her family is from for a moment - indeed, let's even forget that this is an asylum case.

    It appears that ultimately what it comes down to is that a person attempted to commit fraud in the courts. That it may be a photogenic family, with cute kids, really should not be an issue here, no more than if an Irish mother had been found to have purgered herself in court. Or a property developer. These children, or the presumed 'damage' to the community can't really be used as a shield to make someone immune to the consequences of a crime, and regardless of the reasons for this crime, that is what falsifying documents used as evidence in court is.

    I'm sorry, but that is the bottom line and "won't someone think of the children" should not shield people from it.


    ah sure while we are at it we may aswell forget there is a rule of Law, lets just all let our emotions rule on everything, why dont we....:rolleyes:

    the Law is the Law, it is there for a reason without it society breaks down.

    this woman has been proven to be a fraudulant asylum seeker thats the fact and she has broken the Law of this country, she has shown nothing but contempt for our judicial system and she has no place in Irish society.


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    #1831
    opo
    Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭opo


    I am confused about the supposed trauma the childern face.

    It is entirely in the childerns interest and wellbeing that they are finally united with their father and brother as a family unit.

    In the absence of any contradictory evidence, it is quite conceivable that the extended family will also welcome and nurture these kids.


This discussion has been closed.
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