Pamela Izevbekhai - Should She Be Deported?

AlekSmart

Has anyone seen Questions and Answers tonight? Simon Coveney is still trying to push the ProPam agenda of the mother trying to protect her children at all costs. All the lies and fake documents were considered irrelevant, as the end justifies the means. No mention was given to the potential for a plethora of copycat applicants waiting in the wings.

This is exactly why I urged caution about being too sure that the collapse of Ms Izevbakhai`s FACTUAL case would signal the end of her attempt to subvert our States laws.

Simon Coveney represents what we are told is one of the new faces of Irish Politics and as such is under instructions from Party HQ to latch onto the merest hint of anything which might be considered "feelgood".

Now Pamela Izevbekhai,although by a self admitted fraudster,is one of the "Little People" attempting to wrong foot the "Big,Bad State" and bejapers don`t we Irish just love that bit of spirit..etc etc etc...

Mr Coveney and his handlers are betting on the Minister for Justice being very publiclly pursued to "Do the right thing for the Children" and what better way for a young upwardly mobile Politician to be seen than as Pro-Child....Its all so mind numbingly predictable.

Few appear to make any corellation in this between the ability and desire of Irish People to seek better policing,more Gardai on the beat etc and the same peoples ability to be jesuitical about Ms Izevbekhai`s long running masterclass on how to run a State Ragged.

Oh well...another aspiring Politician who wont be getting MY vote... :eek:

rkeane

That nonsense from Simon Coveney was an absolute disgrace, I will never vote for that fool. On the bright side,

"Izevbekhai lawyers ask to withdraw from case"

I would expect that she will be brought to Dublin very soon, just to make sure she doesn't try to escape again.

The Corinthian

rkeane wrote: »

"Izevbekhai lawyers ask to withdraw from case"

Accroding to said article:

A spokesman for the Department of Justice said that the State’s apparent delay in investigating the four-year-old case was initially due to restraints imposed under the 1996 Refugee Act.

It prohibits such investigations during an asylum seeker application process.

That's very odd - anyone know the logic behind this?

The Corinthian

TomRooney wrote: »

ah sure while we are at it we may aswell forget there is a rule of Law, lets just all let our emotions rule on everything, why dont we....:rolleyes:

That was the point of my post. Ironically your reaction is just as emotional.

Vinegar Hill

This article summises the case:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article5627486.ece

To review, she came to Ireland with a valid UK visa. She denies using that Visa because it would have invalidated her husbands ability to work in the UK. So she said she arrived her through Holland and used a smuggler to do it.

She filed for asylum in Ireland. The case was denied and she was ordered returned. She appealed several times and even done a runner at one time. So in other words she is the one that dragged this out this long. She has a case pending that was scheduled Friday in the Supreme Court and another filing with the ECJ.

Now we are to feel sorry for the children because they have been here so long. :eek:

Permabear

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maninasia

EnigmasWhisper wrote: »

Fair enough



I am branding a lot of them as fraudulent asylum seekers, why does that make me racist . . .although I care less if it does. Some are genuine, statistically more are not genuine. There may have been plenty of successful ones, but Im guessing (wihtout basis) that there were far more unsucessful ones.




Im unhappy and very angry, as I assume most Irish people are. Her legal team only tried to progress their own careers, as all legal eagles do. I suspect they were more concerned with breaking new ground than they were with her. Having said that, I agree its entirely her and her husbands fault and while I believe that everybody is entitled to all avenues of law open to them in a democracy, surely there should be limitations in how far and how much of our money she can spend...its obscene.



Point taken, although from everything my 'friend' has told me and all that I have sourced, GM is very rare and practised by a minority and only in certain regions . . .where is this lady from ?



I was assuming you were of the PC brigade, and meant that perhaps you had your voice heard a little too loudly over the past few years, and people like the darling Pamela have had a free ride compared to other countries immigration laws

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_cutting

The wikipedia link states that Nigeria has 25% of female population undergoing GM. You can see the rates for other countries there also. My impression of Nigeria is it is a very large multi-ethnic country, depending on your background the likeliehood of FGM could be close to 100% or close to 0% (tribe/religion). Of course I don't know what's stopping anybody moving to another part of Nigeria if they feel 'oppressed'.
What I don't get is why there were so many refugee application allowed from a country such as Nigeria instead of real war-torn countries such as the Congo and Somalia.

Big_Mac

AlekSmart wrote: »

Oh well...another aspiring Politician who wont be getting MY vote... :eek:

In fairness, its just another in a long line of people who won't be getting my vote. Whats another one to the list?

donegalfella wrote: »

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I find this fascinating. Correct me if I am wrong, but this is just typical of the let her stay brigade. For the time that this discussion has been going, they have continually ignored all questions that were raised about the credibility of her story. One poster in particular was fond of posting vast amounts of data to support this and that, and arguements about how they can't be safe if returned to nigeria. In fact, so much so that a picture was painted of a Guestappo type of force waiting at the airport in lagos for them to arrive. I would also add that this was also forcibly impressed upon us too.
If I put forth a theory as to why we suggested she be sent home, I was told unless I could provide information to back it up to 'sod off' as it was nothing more than conjecture. When I questioned some of the many holes in her story, like the fact that her husband has a UK visa, these were conveniently ignored and unanswered.

Now, they have the cheek to tell us that these latest revelations do not undermine the veracity of her case? Oh please! That is an insult to anyones intelligence. I cannot believe that even after all of this they have the cheek, nay the gaul to even dare call on the minister after all of this. Just who exactly do these people think they are, and why to they feel that they are above the law.

Press Release On the propaganda site:

Press release
30th March 2009
The Let Them Stay group who have supported Pamela Izevbekhai in her struggle to gain asylum in Ireland have called again on the Minister of Justice, Equality and Law Reform to grant leave to remain in Ireland to Pamela and her two children. They issued this plea after Ms Izevbekhai discovered that some of the documents supporting the asylum application had been forged. The support group say they stand firm in their support for Pamela and her daughters and believe that the discovery that some of the documents are false does not undermine the veracity of the case. A spokesperson for the support group said:
"The fact that's some of the documents were forged is entirely understandable when it emerged that Pamela's husband Tony, was unable to access the genuine documents to support the asylum case. We believe that many fathers would do what Tony did if they felt they had no other option. Our concern has always been for the safety of the girls and for Pamela in Nigeria and we continue to have those concerns. Pamela can be assured that we will stick by her until some form of protection is provided by the Irish state"
The Let Them Stay group have also criticised Minister Conor Lenihan for saying that he accepted assurances from the Attorney General of Nigeria that FGM was not a significant problem in Nigeria. Nigeria's own Ministry for Women's Affairs under the Nigerian Federal government reported to the United Nations in 2008 that 32.6 % of women and girls had been subjected to FGM and that 66% of women and girls are at risk of FGM. The report to the UN further stated that the Nigerian government was not in a position to protect girls from FGM. The Let Them Stay Group have said that anyone, including a government official, who states otherwise is acting in a highly irresponsible manner. Their spokesperson said:
"All international evidence and even the Nigerian government's own evidence points to the fact that there is a very high risk for girls of being subjected to FGM and that there is little or no protection for women and girls against this violent crime. It is time for the Irish government to accept the bona fides of this case and to provide protection to Naomi and Jemima by granting them and Pamela leave to remain in Ireland."

How typical. Facts emerge casting doubt on the credibility of her story, and they just blindly ignore it like it never happened. I'm sure that if the shoe was on the other foot they would be up in arms about this.

we will stick by her until some form of protection is provided by the Irish state

One wonders what they will do when she is deported? Lie down under the wheels of the plane perhaps? What gives these people the right to have such blatant ignorance to the laws of ireland, when they would look to enforce the vehemently should it suit them


Thats it, lets have laws like our pick and choose in the sweet section of the shop.

opo

donegalfella wrote: »

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Not surprising really.

The whole point is not to expose the whereabouts or circumtances of an asylum seeker that has, after all, sought super-national protection.

Most genuine asylum seekers do not seek to engage in an explosion of publicity like Ms. Izevbekhai for obvious reasons and I have pointed out before: that this alone, is suggestive of a bogus claim.

Time was when the media were prohibited from naming individuals in the process for this very reason (Section 19 of the Refugee Act, 1996). Their stories could be told but their identity was (rightly) sacrosant.

Subsequently this was amended as the lawyers and their clients seemed to believe that this compounded some conspiracy to secretly fail their applications and the obscene "celebrity" failed asylum seeker phenonomen took off - with they type of disasterous result - engineered by fraudulence and assisted by the gullible - that's exhibited so well by this case.

Permabear

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Permabear

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getcover

dsmythy wrote: »

Kevin Myers wrote a piece on this.

Pretty much echos my own thoughts on it.

There are a lot of troubling questions about this case.
However, Myers' absurd paranoid delusion of some global feminine conspiracy is hardly a basis for answering them.

SWL

The Raven. wrote: »

Has anyone seen Questions and Answers tonight? Simon Coveney is still trying to push the ProPam agenda of the mother trying to protect her children at all costs. All the lies and fake documents were considered irrelevant, as the end justifies the means. No mention was given to the potential for a plethora of copycat applicants waiting in the wings.

Saw that and nearly throw a mug of tea at the TV, moving the goal posts yet again to defend someone who has consistently produced false documents to the courts of the land.

we have a sitting TD deciding that his constituents who pay tax and who will get shafted on the 7th April, who will face heavy penalties if they don't pay their taxes, should forget about law and give this women a cread mile failte, and this guy hopes to be a ministers in the next government,

If that is the calibre of individual in Fine Gael, we're in big trouble. Never liked the guy myself too smarmy and polished & PC for me, but this has turned me of him completely. The guy has made representation on behalf of this women even though she is not a constituent of his, the guy was lead up the garden path shown to be naive, gullible, and egg all over his face, if it were me I would be outraged, but Simon kept up the PC mantra, What a clown

Permabear

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The Corinthian

donegalfella wrote: »

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This, apparently, is not a problem in the majority of fraudulent asylum cases (not to be confused with unsuccessful cases as they are simply rejected upon truthful applications) as the applicants are rarely as organized as the Izevbekhai's were. Classically, where the applicants are a group or family, they are questioned separately and where the claim is bogus will invariably contradict each other or even come out with wildly differing stories.

Also, those claiming asylum often do not fully understand what asylum actually means and will openly admit to wanting to move to Ireland for economic reasons (which is not asylum) or to fleeing a crime that we would recognise under international law.

getcover wrote: »

However, Myers' absurd paranoid delusion of some global feminine conspiracy is hardly a basis for answering them.

Well he does have a point in that public opinion will react differently to certain victims, versus others - I believe that this is one of the reasons that rats are used more often than rabbits in laboratories as people have fewer qualms about killing a rat than a cute little bunny.

And in fairness, the case he cites does smack of at least serious inconsistency, if not double standard, when compared to the Izevbekhai case.

Nonetheless, Myers is an agent provocateur by profession. So if you really don't want to promote his viewpoint, ignore it.

jmcc

At a guess, there has been a bit of a split in LTS and some of those on the periphery have now drifted away in light of the forged documents and the submission of these documents to the courts. Some of them may consider that their support of a case based on forged documents has put them in the same category as the victims of the Nigerian 419er scams and this has forced them to reconsider their unquestioning support. The idea of being associated with such fraud has left many of these people upset and confused.

This would have reduced LTS to a core of almost fanatical true believers. Those on the periphery of this core will use the 'think of the children' rationalisation to affirm their continued involvement. Others would have other reasons having invested so much time and effort. They are no different to true believers everywhere in that a cause becomes the focal point of their lives.

Watching the media reaction over the last few days has been interesting. The case has become absolutely toxic to those in the immigration industry hence the rather non-committal responses and lukewarm support from those who once were PI's loudest supporters.

The case has seriously damaged the credibility of a few journalists and publications. The Irish Times, once a stalwart supporter has shifted completely in tone to concentrate only on the facts. The latest article seemed to be more about Conor Lenihan and his reaction to being "criticized" by LTS on their website. RTE seems to be playing down the involvement of Boucher-Hayes. His position as head of RTE's Radio investigative Unit may become a casualty of this mess.

What may happen over the next few days is that the pronouncements from LTS will become more extreme and, perhaps, irrational. A few more one post wonders will also appear on the thread accusing everyone of racism etc. LTS attacking Conor Lenihan, the one FF politician who might have been lenient, is a good example of this behaviour. I would not be surprised to see an expedited deportation as the mood of the public has changed considerably.

Regards...jmcc

opo

donegalfella wrote: »

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But, as has been pointed out, the death of the daughter was irrelevant to the asylum claim lodged on her daughters behalf. This was a red herring employed by Izevbekhai to beef up her publicity campaign.

Izevbekhai claims to have consented to the first daughters FGM according to an article in the Irish Times and by her own admission.

The only relevant consideration was the prevalence of FGM and internal relocation options and this did not require such an investigation. Gardai, I assume under the direction of the MOJ, took up this end to assess her credibility as she was taking the ECHR case under a suspicious blaze of publicity, politicising the issue and dragging all and sundry into the frey.

donegalfella wrote: »

Mrs Izevbekhai obviously had no qualms about exposing her whereabouts or circumstances, since she took every opportunity to publicize her case in the international media. Why should the state have to protect an applicant's privacy when she herself is crowing from the rooftops?

Exactly.

Permabear

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Big_Mac

donegalfella wrote: »

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Again, She was part of this family so could have used their wealth to hide also if she wanted it. This also again brings the question of: 'If she was afraid to seek asylum in England because of the family 'Guestappo' chasing her, why on earth would she possibly be stupid enough to seek asylum in Ireland'. Be realistic people, we are only a quick spin accross the water from England, and anyone in england will have no difficulty in getting here. Considering that are Gardaí are commonly branded as 'Incompetent Backward Morons' how could she possibly fathom that she would be safe here and not in the UK? Any why have there been no recorded attempts from them to 'Get her and her kids'?

To top this all off, she then whips up an international media campaign about this publicising that she is in Sligo. Its not a big place, trust me I live there. All it takes is someone to go into town and ask 'Where do the refugees seeking asylum live' and they will find her.

Somone please tell me where any of the above sounds like a person who is in absolute fear for her daughters wellbeing and is trying to hide from her family, because i really can't see it.

But she also claimed that she had never heard of female circumcision at the time, at which point she would have been around 24 years old. If the practice is as ubiquitous as her supporters claim, how could she have reached the age of 24 without having learned of it?!

This much I don't buy. Its understandable that the masses in Ireland would be unaware of what FGM actually is before this case highlighted it. Taking Pamela at her word, she would have to have been living under a proverbial rock in Nigeria not to have heard of a practicse that is so 'rampant'

I cannot swallow the notion that a well educated wealthy Nigerian Bank official was not aware at the age of 24 what a cultural practise of Female Circumcision is. If it were me, and I was asked to give my consent for my daughter to undergo such a proceedure and wasn't aware of it, I would not be as stupid as to consent to it before at least looking it up on the internet (don't anyone even try to suggest that she wouldn't have had access to it in Nigeria, that is laughable) to find out what it is that someone wants to do to my child. This stinks of lies, and as has been clearly demonstrated Pamela Izevbekhai is not a stupid person or someone who is ignorant of the facts.


I challenge anyone to answer any of these questions to some degree of satifaction.


___________
Edit, I still have no response from my email, Quelle suprise.

Permabear

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The Corinthian

jmcc wrote: »

The case has seriously damaged the credibility of a few journalists and publications. The Irish Times, once a stalwart supporter has shifted completely in tone to concentrate only on the facts. The latest article seemed to be more about Conor Lenihan and his reaction to being "criticized" by LTS on their website. RTE seems to be playing down the involvement of Boucher-Hayes. His position as head of RTE's Radio investigative Unit may become a casualty of this mess.

I know it may be a case of the basest Schadenfreude, but I'll have to admit I've been laughing my arse off over this. If nothing else, I've found Izevbekhai's case and it's fallout to be wildly entertaining.

Permabear

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blackiebest

Big_Mac wrote: »

Edit, I still have no response from my email, Quelle suprise.

Out of curiosity, would you mind posting a copy of your email to the LTS?

Kev_ps3

to answer the main q - yes, she should be deported, along with all her sponging like

Big_Mac

blackiebest wrote: »

Out of curiosity, would you mind posting a copy of your email to the LTS?

Short and to the point

me

to petitionforpam.
show details Mar 29 (2 days ago)

Hi

As campaigners for securing Pamela's residency in sligo, i would be
interested to hear your thoughts on her most recent revelations in the
times this weekend

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article5993384.ece

I await your thoughts

The website says to contact them, so it would be common courtesy to issue a reply if someone contacts them, wouldn't it?

Icing on the cake here, as DF has said

Niamh Wilson, from the Domestic Violence Advocacy Service, said she believed there's a strong case for a reprieve in this case, citing as evidence the death certificate of Ms Izevbekhai's first daughter, who died as a result of genital mutilation

Seemingly she is still ignorant of the facts that there is serious questions raised about weather she had a child called Elizabeth at all. I very much doubt that member of the medical profession would put their career on the line to lie. The Cert is a fughesi. Can she not understand that?

AlekSmart

Interestingly, the Let Them Stay spokeswoman is one Niamh Wilson, who also appears to be the campaign's central figure; the address of the LTS campaign is given as c/o Niamh Wilson, WAVES Women’s Service, 4, Chapel Street, Sligo.

What used to be known as WAVES is now DVAS, the Domestic Violence Advocacy Service, of which Niamh Wilson is the manager of the Sligo branch.

From the latter website: "DVAS is a feminist front line organization working towards the elimination of violence against women in the Sligo, Leitrim and West Cavan Regions."

This would seem to introduce a strong feminist agenda into the LTS campaign, as well.

Ironically: "Niamh Wilson, from the Domestic Violence Advocacy Service, said she believed there's a strong case for a reprieve in this case, citing as evidence the death certificate of Ms Izevbekhai's first daughter, who died as a result of genital mutilation."

This would be the same Niamh Wilson who said this morning "The fact that's [sic] some of the documents [including the above-mentioned death certificate] were forged is entirely understandable."
donegalfella is offline Reply With Quote

Important informational post I feel.

The arrival of Pamela Izevbekhai represented a great shot-in-the-arm for those interested in "Activism" in it`s many facets.
It was as if the "Messiah" had returned to walk amongst the unbelievers and would once again ensure the triumph of (Feminist?) good over (Masculine?) evil.

This aspect was even touched upon much earlier in this thread when a discussion ensued as to which gender actually carried out the FGM procedures.

What is important now for Ireland is that those who aspire to zealot status,in any field,are smoked out and placed under closer inspection.

I would consider a description of an organization such as the DVAS as being "Front Line" appears to suggest some form of confrontational or even warlike regard for itself.

Protective and representional agencies such as DVAS are a feature of every well set up democratic country,but there comes a point when these agencies have to recognise the primacy of the States Laws which,as the Pamela Izevbekhai case now demonstrates,have been proven to be essentially well founded.

I believe that a wee bit more "Investigative Journalism" may well produce some other interesting supporters of the LTS campaign particularly in the area of funding.

doomedtofail

The woman has cheated, lied, gone underground once she realised her first attempts at fobbing off the authorities had failed, obstructed the course of justice via bogus documentation, humiliated the people who previously fought for her, not to mention the huge sums of money spent on legal proceedings that both you and I will pay for. Why has she not been charged let alone deported immediately?

There are so many liars like this woman making a mockery of our justice and asylum institutions destroying the reputations of both and the process for people who actually need it. Can't we make these people pay at least part of their legal bill and thereby securing a huge drop off in the time, money and energy spent entertaining these fabricated ramblings? Money and energy that could be spent much more productively supporting us, the Irish people, at this time?

doomedtofail

blackiebest wrote: »

Enigmaswispers

You are the type that makes me cringe at sharing nationality. Mods do your worst. You are a tit and represent all that I hate. Laugh out loud at what these two lovely girls will go through? right or wrong it is hell on earth for them and your mentality challenges the link between animal and man.

You are a disgrace.

*Edit* Whatever your opinion on this case there are two young children who had no hand act or part in this debacle, nobody has the right to laugh out loud at the predicament.

I don't think he actually laughed out loud. It's simply an expression he used to denote the fact that her very case for being here is, indeed, laughable. Insulting the original poster has only shown you to be weak-minded and ill at ease with your own flawed reasoning - if not then why resort to such childish antics?

Big_Mac

doomedtofail wrote: »

The woman has cheated, lied, gone underground once she realised her first attempts at fobbing off the authorities had failed, obstructed the course of justice via bogus documentation, humiliated the people who previously fought for her, not to mention the huge sums of money spent on legal proceedings that both you and I will pay for. Why has she not been charged let alone deported immediately?

If she is charged and convicted of a crime here, she will have to serve her sentence here. She can't be deported then. On the other hand, if she can be charged and deported, this will be another waste of time and money as the charges would (I think) only be relevent to Irish law

There are so many liars like this woman making a mockery of our justice and asylum institutions destroying the reputations of both and the process for people who actually need it. Can't we make these people pay at least part of their legal bill and thereby securing a huge drop off in the time, money and energy spent entertaining these fabricated ramblings? Money and energy that could be spent much more productively supporting us, the Irish people, at this time?

Although she is from a wealthy family,as I'm sure you have read throughout this thread, she lives in acommodation provided by the state, and gets €19 a week to live on, also provided by the state. Where would she have the funds to pay for the legal costs? Yet again it's the honest tax payer in this country that has to foot the bill

partyguinness

No reason why she should serve her sentence here...she wld more than likely be deported..

She has ruined any genuine cases out there and as for the amount of taxpayers she has wasted...

Unfortunately she has added to the usual stereotypical view of Nigerians in general..