Pamela Izevbekhai - Should She Be Deported?

ParkRunner

I have heard from friends in the know that Pamela's solicitors have come off record! Nothing has been released yet though to the media from what I can see.

partyguinness

EF wrote: »

I have heard from friends in the know that Pamela's solicitors have come off record! Nothing has been released yet though to the media from what I can see.

It was in the news this morning...

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Big_Mac

EF wrote: »

I have heard from friends in the know that Pamela's solicitors have come off record! Nothing has been released yet though to the media from what I can see.

I'd say its only a matter of time.

doomedtofail

AlekSmart wrote: »

This is exactly why I urged caution about being too sure that the collapse of Ms Izevbakhai`s FACTUAL case would signal the end of her attempt to subvert our States laws.

Simon Coveney represents what we are told is one of the new faces of Irish Politics and as such is under instructions from Party HQ to latch onto the merest hint of anything which might be considered "feelgood".

Now Pamela Izevbekhai,although by a self admitted fraudster,is one of the "Little People" attempting to wrong foot the "Big,Bad State" and bejapers don`t we Irish just love that bit of spirit..etc etc etc...

Mr Coveney and his handlers are betting on the Minister for Justice being very publiclly pursued to "Do the right thing for the Children" and what better way for a young upwardly mobile Politician to be seen than as Pro-Child....Its all so mind numbingly predictable.

Few appear to make any corellation in this between the ability and desire of Irish People to seek better policing,more Gardai on the beat etc and the same peoples ability to be jesuitical about Ms Izevbekhai`s long running masterclass on how to run a State Ragged.

Oh well...another aspiring Politician who wont be getting MY vote... :eek:

No better way that to tell the man himself people


simon.coveney@oir.ie

doomedtofail

Big_Mac wrote: »

I'd say its only a matter of time.

So what does that mean in practical terms?

Big_Mac

More biast sensationalist nonsense about us being the bigger people and letting her stay

By Terry Prone

Tuesday March 31 2009

Pamela Izevbekhai's case is gone down the tubes, and public anger at her is widespread. Somebody forged the documents on which the case was based.
She suggests it was her husband. He says it was him. She says she didn't know. All of which divides the issue in two.
Firstly, there's the media controversy about how Philip Boucher Hayes could have been fed a bum steer, given that, as he says, he got the hospital number from International Directory Enquiries and was put through without warning.
So how could an imposter have lined up all the guff in response to an unexpected phone call? Either this is the most elaborate hoax in the history of hoaxes or weird coincidences or misunderstandings are in play.
It's all very interesting. But it's a side issue. The reality is that Pamela and her girls are likely to find themselves back in Nigeria in jig time, without a following wave of sympathy from Ireland.
But Simon Coveney, the Fine Gael spokesperson who supported Pamela's case, points out that it's not as simple as punishing a woman who -- deliberately or accidentally -- presented a false case when seeking asylum.
Coveney pointed out on last night's Questions & Answers that no matter who did what, the reality is that the context into which the family will move has changed.
Circumcision
And, arguably, that change is for the worse. The Nigerian government has been dragged through international media as -- at best -- failing to prevent female genital circumcision.
The Nigerian government is not going to like that, and it would have been angry with the woman who did it, even if she had done it with valid documentation.
That puts her and her daughters, on their return to their home country, in a position of potential danger, quite apart from the threat to the two children she had earlier claimed. It's a Catch 22.
On the one hand is the fact that some 30 million Nigerian women have undergone this brutal mutilation, and therefore the chances that the two girls will be subjected to it are reasonably high.
On the other is the hope that because of the international coverage, the family will be left alone. Nobody has any guarantees either way.
In this country, the issue is now dogged by fury at having our concern and goodwill misused. But that's not the point. People, including those who supported this articulate woman in her asylum bid, are now enraged at the amount of money she has cost the state. But that's not the point, either.
The issue is further complicated by the legitimate desire of the authorities not to create a precedent. From a systems point of view, that's valid. But systems should serve people and the fear of a precedent should never prevent a state from taking positive protective action.
Put aside the mother. Put aside the fraud. Put aside speculation as to how it was done, or the real motivation behind it. Look to the children. Here are two teenage girls who have spent several years in this country, fully integrated into the Irish education system, set fair, it seemed, to be successful and contributory members of our society.
trauma
Now they are to be torn from their community, their school and their neighbourhood and returned to a country they fear, with some justification. The trauma to the two of them will be profound, even if they escape mutilation.
There is at least a case for suggesting that in this instance, Ireland might show itself to be bigger, more generous and more caring than these parents deserve. In the interests of the children.

Sigh!

Big_Mac

doomedtofail wrote: »

So what does that mean in practical terms?

Its only a matter of time before her legal team issue a statement to the media about going off the record

Kev_ps3

There is at least a case for suggesting that in this instance, Ireland might show itself to be bigger, more generous and more caring than these parents deserve. In the interests of the children.

I hate these bloody journalists. Mouth pieces for the goverment and big business they are. We have been generous enough with these people. Its time we looked after our own.

herya

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

We have been generous enough with these people fraudsters. Its time we looked after our own the honest ones.

Now with this I could agree.

eoinbn

I think she should be allowed to stay. She is a liar, fraud, corrupt- fits right in!

Big_Mac

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Obvious question, but where in their propaganda for persona non grata was this posted?

Barname

Put her and her kids on a raft.

Tow them into international waters.

Cut the rope.

Do not waste an airfare on that lying leech.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

shamill

I'm with speedboatchase on this one!!! Apart from everything else, in the current climate we can not afford to keep these "asylum seekers"!

blackiebest

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I think it is wrong to suggest that serious mental trauma will not be suffered by Naomi and Jemima. They believe they had an elder sister who died following FGM and they have learned that this is likely to happen to them if they are returned to Nigeria. Of course children can be moved from one country to anther without suffering profound trauma but these girls can not be deported to Nigeria without suffering the most extreme and profound trauma and no one of us should deny this fact. I am stating this as it is the case. I respect why people want to send her back but do not delude yourselves as to the consequences this action will inflict on two lovely Sligo schoolgirls. They are the innocent victims of this case, they never lied and never produced forged documents, but a nightmare of nightmares will be experienced by them.

herya

blackiebest wrote: »

I think it is wrong to suggest that serious mental trauma will not be suffered by Naomi and Jemima. They believe they had an elder sister who died following FGM and they have learned that this is likely to happen to them if they are returned to Nigeria. Of course children can be moved from one country to anther without suffering profound trauma but these girls can not be deported to Nigeria without suffering the most extreme and profound trauma and no one of us should deny this fact. I am stating this as it is the case. I respect why people want to send her back but do not delude yourselves as to the consequences this action will inflict on two lovely Sligo schoolgirls. They are the innocent victims of this case, they never lied and never produced forged documents, but a nightmare of nightmares will be experienced by them.

Unfortunately you might be right. Sad as it is, though, this is entirely their mother and father's doing (if they are indeed fraudsters). If these girls have been fed lies about their "dead" sister and the threat to themselves, shame on the parents not on Irish authorities.

Big_Mac

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Remarkable how he had all relevent files for one individual to hand that were 9 years old at the time

Here ye, hear ye, peoples of the world! Bring your children and forged documents to Ireland, and get a free pass through our asylum system!

Couldn't have put it better myself. Remember, won't someone think of the children!:rolleyes:

On what criteria do you determine whether a six-year-old child is set to become a "successful and contributory member of our society"?

Possibly the same criteria that determined that Olokunle Eluhanla would be a sucessful and contributory member of society. Look how that turned out.

As slight digression here, some interesting quotes from his bebo page:

Hello, Olukunle here lads, Id just like to say hi to all the homeboys and homegirls from Palmerstown Community skool! Yo guys know who you all are, Id also like to big it up to my homeboy Uncle Kunal who will hopefully get me to the UK like he has promised where I can start a new life and hopefully sneak back to see you all very soon! Fook minister McDowell and his RACIST propaganda! Peace out!

Sort of explains his leaving cert results doesn't it? Peace out indeed!

Given that these parents have already decided to use their children as pawns to defraud the Irish state, they must be delighted to see editorials like this one.

That plus the nonsense of the let them stay brigade's website

jmcc

This is what I find fascinating in Terry Prone's piece:

"Firstly, there's the media controversy about how Philip Boucher Hayes could have been fed a bum steer, given that, as he says, he got the hospital number from International Directory Enquiries and was put through without warning."

The key phrase is in bold italics. She seems to be covering herself just in case it turns out that Boucher-Hayes did not get the number from International Directory Enquiries but was instead given it by a dubious source. If Boucher-Hayes included it in his affidavit then it would be possible to check. However the key issue is where Boucher-Hayes got the number.

The usual checks and verifications (the obvious one being that as a journalist that you verify the identify of the person you are speaking to and are going to use as a source) appear to be missing. The Gardai investigation confirmed that the "doctor" he interviewed was not the doctor in question. I don't know if RTE will circle the wagons or will reassign him to something that requires a less demanding level of fact checking but this is probably good enough for a piece in the Phoenix Magazine.

Regards...jmcc

The Corinthian

blackiebest wrote: »

I think it is wrong to suggest that serious mental trauma will not be suffered by Naomi and Jemima. They believe they had an elder sister who died following FGM and they have learned that this is likely to happen to them if they are returned to Nigeria. Of course children can be moved from one country to anther without suffering profound trauma but these girls can not be deported to Nigeria without suffering the most extreme and profound trauma and no one of us should deny this fact. I am stating this as it is the case. I respect why people want to send her back but do not delude yourselves as to the consequences this action will inflict on two lovely Sligo schoolgirls. They are the innocent victims of this case, they never lied and never produced forged documents, but a nightmare of nightmares will be experienced by them.

Certainly they are innocent victims, but ultimately it is not the state that will likely deport them at fault, but their parents. Ultimately, theirs is the responsibly for their actions and their consequences.

That they will suffer something as extreme as trauma, is questionable, however. I moved from a modern, cosmopolitan nation (Italy) to a pretty economically poor backwater (Ireland) when I was their age, and I hardly suffered trauma. Of course Ireland and Nigeria are not in the same league, but my point is that children are not as fragile as you appear to be making out.

Regardless, using children as a 'get out of jail' card is a bit pathetic really. If they suffer trauma, it is ultimately their parents' responsibility.

Big_Mac

The Corinthian wrote: »

Regardless, using children as a 'get out of jail' card is a bit pathetic really. If they suffer trauma, it is ultimately their parents' responsibility.

I agree, but I also believe (correct me if I am wrong) that blackiebest is not using it as a chip, the brigade are. I think blackiebest is just pointing out what he / she feels

herya

jmcc wrote: »

The Gardai investigation confirmed that the "doctor" he interviewed was not the doctor in question.

I wonder is it doctor's word against PBH's? The doctor doesn't seem to have much credibility and it seems to me that it's much more probable that he was bribed first then changed his tune than that somebody intercepted his calls and impersonated him in the interview. This does not put Pamela in the right (I don't believe she belongs there) but I doubt that the doctor is squeky clean either.

Big_Mac

herya wrote: »

I wonder is it doctor's word against PBH's? The doctor doesn't seem to have much credibility and it seems to me that it's much more probable that he was bribed first then changed his tune than that somebody intercepted his calls and impersonated him in the interview. This does not put Pamela in the right (I don't believe she belongs there) but I doubt that the doctor is squeky clean either.

If the doctor was impersonated by someone else, plus the fact that the documentation was forged with the hospital address on the stamp incorrect, how does that affect his credibility? He has also made a sworn affadavit to the effect that he did not do the interview nor did he state that Elizabeth either live or die.

Seriously, would a medical professional put his repuation on the line for something like this?

blackiebest

The Corinthian wrote: »

Certainly they are innocent victims, but ultimately it is not the state that will likely deport them at fault, but their parents. Ultimately, theirs is the responsibly for their actions and their consequences.

That they will suffer something as extreme as trauma, is questionable, however. I moved from a modern, cosmopolitan nation (Italy) to a pretty economically poor backwater (Ireland) when I was their age, and I hardly suffered trauma. Of course Ireland and Nigeria are not in the same league, but my point is that children are not as fragile as you appear to be making out.

Regardless, using children as a 'get out of jail' card is a bit pathetic really. If they suffer trauma, it is ultimately their parents' responsibility.

Had you been led to believe that your genitalia would be mutilated upon your arrival in Ireland? Is your experience of moving from one country to another really comparable?

herya

Big_Mac wrote: »

Seriously, would a medical professional put his repuation on the line for something like this?

Not here, I agree, but I have no experience with Nigeria... It is equally likely to me that a medical consultant can be bribed (he definitely wants to cash on this - see his interview fee) or that calls can be intercepted at the level of hospital switchboard and an impersonator put in place for Irish journalists to talk to.

jmcc

herya wrote: »

I wonder is it doctor's word against PBH's?

No. It was reported that the Garda investigation is satisfied that the "doctor" that Boucher-Hayes interviewed is not the doctor they spoke to in person. They would have used the tapes of the Boucher-Hayes interviews. So apparently, the individual that Boucher-Hayes interviewed was not the doctor and Boucher-Hayes apparently did not verify the identity of the individual he interviewed. For an investigative journalist, or indeed any kind of journalist, it is a serious mistake.

Regards...jmcc

The Corinthian

Big_Mac wrote: »

I think blackiebest is just pointing out what he / she feels

Perhaps so, but it did sound like an indirect "let them stay for the children" argument to me. Maybe it's just how I read it.

Big_Mac

jmcc wrote: »

No. It was reported that the Garda investigation is satisfied that the "doctor" that Boucher-Hayes interviewed is not the doctor they spoke to in person. They would have used the tapes of the Boucher-Hayes interviews. So apparently, the individual that Boucher-Hayes interviewed was not the doctor and Boucher-Hayes apparently did not verify the identity of the individual he interviewed. For an investigative journalist, or indeed any kind of journalist, it is a serious mistake.

Regards...jmcc

Like I said. Someone should do a voice comparision between the 'Alleged' Doctor and Tony Izevbkhai

doomedtofail

If I had known the documents were fake I would have not done it this way.

Err...what's the other way? Oh yeah...get Tony to sit on his arse driving a taxi/bus, securing (but not working on mind you) building sites for a few years, claim residency and then citizenship. I'm perplexed why she had to go through (not to mention the lives of her children) this whole web of lies and deception. Why not just go down the 'normal' route?

Big_Mac

doomedtofail wrote: »

If I had known the documents were fake I would have not done it this way.

Err...what's the other way? Oh yeah...get Tony to sit on his arse driving a taxi/bus, securing (but not working on mind you) building sites for a few years, claim residency and then citizenship. I'm perplexed why she had to go through (not to mention the lives of her children) this whole web of lies and deception. Why not just go down the 'normal' route?

There's a 'normal' route to fradulently seeking asylum?