Pamela Izevbekhai - Should She Be Deported?

HollyB

doomedtofail wrote: »

At what I can only imagine to be exorbitant cost to the taxpayer. Why should someone who has such disdain for our Courts of Law be afforded such exhaustive investigative time and energy? Granted, perhaps before she admitted to being a perpetrator of fraudulent acts, that this may have been of some use to supporting her case but she has left a lot of people with egg on their face, our asylum process a shambles (which really she should be thanked for highlighting), and, at the most conservative estimate, our public purse E500,000 the lighter.

Should Pamela offer proof of her son's existence to refute the doctor's testimony that her first child was born in 2000 - and, frankly, I'm surprised that she and her supporters haven't made such a move; they've mentioned Adrian's existence but not so much as a photo has been offered as proof of it - then I think the DNA tests will be worth it to help settle the issue.

She has until Friday to come up with proof that Elizabeth existed. Proving that the doctor who claims that she did not was wrong where Adrian is concerned would at least be a step in the right direction.

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TomRooney

i wouldnt be suprised if oul pam goes missing before friday and she decides to vanish into the overflowing tide of illegal immigrants in this country.
watch this space!

HollyB

TomRooney wrote: »

i wouldnt be suprised if oul pam goes missing before friday and she decides to vanish into the overflowing tide of illegal immigrants in this country.
watch this space!

I'd say that she's made herself too recognizable to be able to get away with disappearing like that this time, although I suppose that it is possible that some of her more determined supporters might try to help hide her.

Can a person be made to face criminal charges if they assist somebody who is evading deportation?

T runner

the_syco wrote: »

There are "ugly foot soldiers" who believe she is innocent, and will attempt to stop her deportation.

Youll probably find that those people arent militant or violent. There will be hate groups at a public deportation and it will be ugly.

If there was no death cert made for the person in question by the state, and there is a death cert for that person, it means that it's highly likely the death cert is fraudulant.

Yes the death cert is fraudulant. This is not necessarily evidence that the child did not exist though given that the Nigerian authorities can only produce 54 death certs in a year for a population the size of Liverpools.

T runner

donegalfella wrote: »

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If the UN are telling them they will be circumcised then its significant as our asylum system and laws are based on a UN handbook and UN Law.

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walshb

Hey, if we are so willing to help this woman and we believe that "every" female in Nigeria is in danger of FGM, why not adopt Nigeria. Sure isn't that what some people want here, for Ireland to tackle the ills of society in Nigeria, as well as the ills in Ireland!:rolleyes:

The Corinthian

T runner wrote: »

Yes the death cert is fraudulant. This is not necessarily evidence that the child did not exist though given that the Nigerian authorities can only produce 54 death certs in a year for a population the size of Liverpools.

Out of curiosity, where has it been reported that the 54 death certs are for the district and not for the hospital?

T runner

donegalfella wrote: »

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Again she must give her consent to each publication and if tgis hasnt happened each publisher is liable. Its quite explicit.

Yes. Why will you believe everything that Mrs Izevbekhai says, yet you won't believe the testimony of our own Gardaí?

That is not the testimony of the Gardai. They have not said explicitly what information has led them to fly out to Nigeria and to investigate the doctor/death cert.

Asylum cases are not decided on the basis of something that has already happened. They are decided by considering the possible risk of future persecution.

And examining the past and any intervening changes up until the present is a good help to predicting the future. When predicting the future it is always useful to look at the past,not exclusively, but useful none the less.

If that statement is true, you should be able to give examples of deported asylum seekers who have been persecuted upon their return to Nigeria. Can you?

Wrong. If that statement is not true the Nigerian authorities should be giving reports about every returnee as they are obliged to under their agreement with Ireland. They have not reported on one and yet are continuing to take cash from the Irish government to "protect" these people. Yet the Irish government accepts Nigeria's promises of protection when it knows they have not done it, not even once

donkey balls

deportation normally takes place at night or very early in the morning, the deportee,s are then placed on a private charter flight which has Guards /nurses on board.

these charter flights cost well over 150000 Euro a go we should do what the Aussie,s do and put them on the next commercial flight out of the country.

after all has any one ever tried to board a international flight without a passport(not including uk flights)no passport no flight how do these people get on board?

then they show up at our ports with no documents c,mon there taking the pee it is so obvious

T runner

walshb wrote: »

Hey, if we are so willing to help this woman and we believe that "every" female in Nigeria is in danger of FGM, why not adopt Nigeria. Sure isn't that what some people want here, for Ireland to tackle the ills of society in Nigeria, as well as the ills in Ireland!:rolleyes:

Wow, thats a good idea! Watch your head the woodpeckers are out!

T runner

You still insist that Mrs Izevbekhai is telling the truth.

If thats a question and not a misrepresentation then, no, I dont. I believe she was aware that the birth cert was forged.

You believe that Dr Unokanjo's affidavit to the European Court of Human Rights and his statement to the Irish Gardaí were a product of intimidation by "official Nigeria."

I dont have enough evidence to believe that. It wouldn't be the first or last time for Official Nigeria to intimidate someone though would it?

I would like to know exactly what Nigeria's contacts with that doctor have been.
I would like to know exactly the contacts between the Irish authorities and the Nigerian authorities on this case.

T runner

donegalfella wrote: »

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You tell us!

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JonathanAnon

She should be charged with fraud (knowingly providing false documentation to the courts). Then fired out of the country.

There's a recession on, we had the money to indulge these foreign fraudsters in the good times but we dont now. Time that the Irish started looking after the Irish.

Personally I couldnt give a damn about Nigeria, I would think that their immigrants have brought more negative things to the country than positive. And as mentioned above, though we are seen as the soft touch in the EU, we are a) not responsible for and b) not capable of sorting out the problems of African countries, and we should not be trying. Nigeria will not be doing anything to help us out of our hard times.

Big_Mac

donegalfella wrote: »

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And in granting asylum based on this situation, a precedent will be set for every female nigerian asylum seeker with a young daughter to claim asylum in this country citing that their daughters are at risk of FGM

T runner wrote: »

If thats a question and not a misrepresentation then, no, I dont. I believe she was aware that the birth cert was forged.

And consequently, as she has submitted forged documentation, which you agree with do you still believe her case for seeking aslyum to be bona fide? Is it not possible that she is fabricating evidence and bending the truth in an effort to gain asylum when she is not a candidate for it?

Yes the death cert is fraudulant. This is not necessarily evidence that the child did not exist though given that the Nigerian authorities can only produce 54 death certs in a year for a population the size of Liverpools.

So are saying the fact that the Nigerian hospital has only issued x amount of certificates in a specific timeframe that by default the fact that Pamela had to forge documentation to support her appeal is null and void?

I dont have enough evidence to believe that. It wouldn't be the first or last time for Official Nigeria to intimidate someone though would it?

Would it? Can you quote references to where it has been proven that it is common place for Nigerian officials to intimidate members of the Nigerian medical profession?

Big_Mac

Response from the LHS Brigade. Note how they just copied in their script from their website. Interesting how someone will send an email and refer to themselves in the third party.

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Original Message

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From: Let Them Stay [mailto:petitionforpamela@yahoo.ie]
Sent: 01 April 2009 11:46
To: me
Cc: Let Them Stay
Subject: Re: Pamela's latest revelations.

The Let Them Stay group who have supported Pamela Izevbekhai in her
struggle to gain asylum in Ireland have called again on the Minister
of Justice, Equality and Law Reform to grant leave to remain in
Ireland to Pamela and her two children. They issued this plea after
Ms Izevbekhai discovered that some of the documents supporting the
asylum application had been forged. The support group say they stand
firm in their support for Pamela and her daughters and believe that
the discovery that some of the documents are false does not undermine
the veracity of the case. A spokesperson for the support group said:


“ The fact that’s some of the documents were forged is entirely
understandable when it emerged that Pamela’s husband Tony, was unable
to access the genuine documents to support the asylum case. We
believe that many fathers would do what Tony did if they felt they had
no other option. Our concern has always been for the safety of the
girls and for Pamela in Nigeria and we continue to have those
concerns. Pamela can be assured that we will stick by her until some
form of protection is provided by the Irish state”


The Let Them Stay group have also criticised Minister Conor Lenihan
for saying that he accepted assurances from the Attorney General of
Nigeria that FGM was not a significant problem in Nigeria. Nigeria’s
own Ministry for Women’s Affairs under the Nigerian Federal government
reported to the United Nations in 2008 that 32.6 % of women and girls
had been subjected to FGM and that 66% of women and girls are at risk
of FGM. The report to the UN further stated that the Nigerian
government was not in a position to protect girls from FGM. The Let
Them Stay Group have said that anyone, including a government
official, who states otherwise is acting in a highly irresponsible
manner. Their spokesperson said:


“ All international evidence and even the Nigerian government’s own
evidence points to the fact that there is a very high risk for girls
of being subjected to FGM and that there is little or no protection
for women and girls against this violent crime. It is time for the
Irish government to accept the bona fides of this case and to provide
protection to Naomi and Jemima by granting them and Pamela leave to
remain in Ireland.”

My Response:

Dear Niamh et al...

Thank you for your reply.

I have to say, am rather disappointed by your reply however. I had hoped that, for an organization such as yourselves who have been so outspoken on this matter in an effort to advocate the successful asylum of Pamela and her two children, you would have had more comment to make on the recent revelations other than a verbatim script of the statement issued on your associated website. Had I wanted to read this press release, I would have merely read the website.

Would you care to comment further on the recent revelations from Pamela regarding the forged death certificate, and the recent sworn affidavit from Dr. Unokanjo?

Your thoughts would be appreciated

P.S. I have taken the liberty of not associating my name to this, as you have seen fit to do the same also.

I also bet they're a bit pissed that this thread has trumped their website on google searches.

EDIT: At least it had, not anymore

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Trouser_Press

AlekSmart wrote: »

Trouser_Press writ....:

No mask I`m afraid Trouser_Press,just a long standing scepticism of "Ginger Groups" in general,particularly those who spring forward to embrace a particularly juicy "Cause of the Day".

In this case we have an avowedlly "Feminist" (Whatever that may be) group loudly proclaiming the merits of Its own particular anti-establishment (In this case one assumes,Male) beliefs.

It could just as easily be a Prisoners Rights Group or a Republican Splinter Group or a Stop The Water Rates group,all i`m advocating is a healthy scepticism before embracing EVERY aspect of the "Cause".

As for the spelling,well I`ll stick with "Oriented" as in Orientation...It appears to have got my meaning across quite well.. ?

Next?

AlekSmart

I suppose ide bettr stcihk wit accentuating the positive`s jus n case .......;)

T Runner,the number of Death Certificates for the Surulere district is recorded as 55,the Certificate submitted by Ms Izevbekhai was numbered 56.

Originally Posted by HollyB

If that part of the doctor's testimony is incorrect, the Izevbekhais can prove that by producing Adrian Izevbekhai. DNA tests will be able to confirm whether or not he is Pamela and Tony Izevbekhai's son and, if he's a teenager, one look at him will confirm that he was born prior to 2000.

It is quite interesting to note the continuing absence from the scene of Mr Izevbekhai.
I see some posters speculating upon him being brought from Nigeria along with his son Adrian to add some verification to his wife`s (?) version of events.

I would not be wide eyed with surprise if it were revealed that the Gentleman was in residence far closer to the epicentre of events than anybody considered.

T Runner also speculates on the absence of paperwork such as certification in the general Nigerian administrative run of thing`s(?).
This may indeed be true,but if Ms Izevbekhai`s claims to a degree of social standing and wealth in her Nigerian past are true then I would consider that a well educated and wealthy couple would most definitely have attended to the paperwork surrounding their daughters death ?

As for the mechanics of Deportation,the process itself is usually carried out away from the public gaze and with due regard for those being deported.
The members of the Garda Immigration Bureau are tasked with a delicate and painful job,but one which nonetheless must be attended to.

I am as yet unaware of any deportation where the Gardai`s actions have been anything less than professional and in compliance with the standards of such procedures EU wide.

I would not forseee any public send-off for Pamela Izevbekhai and her Daughters.
There is not the level of general public ill-will towards her to account for more than a handful of fruitcakes to vent their spleen at her.
Any sort of turn-out will,most likely come from the LTS campaign.which as we now know have the backing of some to whom activism is a well practiced format.

If there were any real fears of protest groups attempting to disrupt the Airport,the State does have some more secure locations where a Charter Flight could operate from.

However,until the Legal i`s are dotted and t`s crossed,then this saga continues to rumble on and anything is possible.

Note to Mod`s: Please feel free,in the interests of clarity of expression,to dot my i`s and cross my t`s as you see fit...in the public interest of course

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Big_Mac

Has Pamela Izevbekhai used lies to convince us of the truth?

Some interesting quotes

But one thing is certain, if it is true that Izevbekhai’s daughter died in Nigeria in 1994 she should, with or without documents, be able to prove it. Nigeria, it needs to be stressed, is not as backward as the western media are trying to paint it. Izevbekhai, one would argue, should be able to point to where the baby was buried.

This is something which she is currently unable to do.

Also, I am rather surprised that instead of giving Dr Joseph Unokanjo of Isioma Hospital in Lagos credit for allegedly refusing to furnish Izevbekhai with fake documents to support her claim, the Irish media are beginning to give the impression that he is untrustworthy.
What is wrong in asking for €5,000 to answer the questions posed to him by the Sunday Times? As a Nigerian friend said to me, the truth is sometimes obtained at a price. If it is true that Unokanjo did refuse to provide Izevbekhai with false documents to support her asylum claim, I think the Late Late Show should organise to bring him over from Nigeria and pay him an appearance fee because in my view, this man’s conduct is proof that there are many Nigerians whoare incorruptible, contrary to popularopinion.

Good idea, and it would certainly bring some decent material to the late late show. If it did though, no doubt there would be some of the LHS brigade in the audience waving their plackards and shouting abuse.....

It is my hope that by the time the matter of Izevbekhai is no more headline news it will be clear to the Irish people that all that glitters is not gold and that an ornament is not lead simply because it does not glitter, otherwise they will continue to be a bunch of Pegeen Mikes.

Well said.


So there you have it. A well written piece of information in the Irish Times by a Nigerian National. People are starting to speak up for their country

EDIT: Dammit DF, you got in there while I was writing my post.

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Big_Mac

donegalfella wrote: »

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Possibly, but this sort of claim would be moot unless there is some evidence to support the claim of Dr Unokanjo's 'Intimidation'. Something which i have already asked for.

jmcc

Watching the media circus has been a lot of fun. I think that this has really hit Boucher-Hayes' credibility as journalist, let alone an investigative one. From what I can see, Antonia Leslie is a columnist in the Sindo rather than a journalist. Brady seems to toe the State line in a lot of matters. The Irish Times is hardly the quality newspaper it once was. It has seen a complete collapse in standards in reporting and it has become more like a dowdy magazine replete with hot-air merchants telling everyone how they should think. Its Saturday magazine is a poor clone of the Sindo, though without the latter's sparkling 'journalism'.

Tomorrow's Op-Ed in the Irish Times should be interesting. However the Sunday newspapers may be even more interesting if they start digging into the affidavits and the agit-prop methods used in support of this case. I wonder if the other publications will now start examining the gullible people in the media who were taken in by the forged documents and dodgy radio interviews?

Regards...jmcc

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