Pamela Izevbekhai - Should She Be Deported?

solarant

The word here is "Maintains" and you want the people and courts of the land that this lady's husband submitted forged documents and yet he never told his wife.

Well they can maintain all they want, proof is proof, let the authorities go dig up this supposidly dead daughter and do dna tests, or is the grave gone also.
You can bet you can dig all you want but all you will uncover is more lies and deceit.

HollyB

solarant wrote: »

Just curious what religion is this lady, is she Muslim. ??

The older girl, Naomi, made her First Communion so I'd say that the family is Christian.

HollyB

opo wrote: »

Her story is irrelevant to the core issue that has been rejected and it remains - that her daughters have at no time and should not in the future, find themselves in a position of having FGM performed on them without their parents consent.

For me, the existence (or non-existence, as the case may be) of Elizabeth Izevbekhai, and whether or not the story of her death is true has a huge bearing on Pamela's credibility. She has alleged that her in-laws are attempting to abduct her daughters and subject them to FGM against the wishes of herself and her husband. If her word cannot be trusted, then without offering proof of a threat against her daughters, how can the courts or the Minister for Justice be expected to believe her claims?

blackiebest

opo wrote: »

It simply does not.

Her story is irrelevant to the core issue that has been rejected and it remains - that her daughters have at no time and should not in the future, find themselves in a position of having FGM performed on them without their parents consent.

If there was even the remotest possibillity of that happening, then furthermore, it is believed that internal relocation within Nigeria is perfectly feasible.

I accept an element of untold trauma has already been imposed on these childern, led to believe thay are related to pyschotic razor wielding savages determined to slice their genitals - but that trauma is the gift of the legally contemptuous - publicity seeker - Pamela Izevbekhai and her few remaining, latch-on, ultra-radical supporters (who also crave publicity over facts) and no-one else.

Point taken, i should have qualified by saying "In my opinion"! I am very sceptical about Pamela's story in light of the revelations during the past week and feel very sickened thinking of the damage to other cases which may come up. I fear it is super fuel for the 'bloody foreigners' brigade and worry about the fallout for our ligitimate immigrants.

Solorant; I am only restating the 'story' as reported in the papers. She says she did not know, you and everyone else may feel she is lying and I understand that but she has only admitted to knowing the papers were forged on the 27th.

rkeane

Fair play Blackiebeast, I hate to say we told you so.

oscarBravo

solarant wrote: »

I am not being stereo typical but...

...the modus operandi of Nigerian society and they will take advantage of any good Samaritan without blinking a eye.

Nope. No stereotyping here. No siree bob.

The Corinthian

opo wrote: »

Her story is irrelevant to the core issue that has been rejected and it remains - that her daughters have at no time and should not in the future, find themselves in a position of having FGM performed on them without their parents consent.

If there was even the remotest possibillity of that happening, then furthermore, it is believed that internal relocation within Nigeria is perfectly feasible.

I agree with your assessment in the first paragraph, but protecting them from the "remotest possibility" of this is untenable. On that basis, one could argue that any Nigerian female child could be subject to the "remotest possibility" of this occurring.

My understanding of asylum cases is that they are not granted on the basis of a "remotest possibility" of danger, but a real and probable one. Of course, this is what you may have meant, but it is important not to use emotive language, simply because it can be interpreted so widely.

opo

The Corinthian wrote: »

I agree with your assessment in the first paragraph, but protecting them from the "remotest possibility" of this is untenable. On that basis, one could argue that any Nigerian female child could be subject to the "remotest possibility" of this occurring.

My understanding of asylum cases is that they are not granted on the basis of a "remotest possibility" of danger, but a real and probable one. Of course, this is what you may have meant, but it is important not to use emotive language, simply because it can be interpreted so widely.

To clarify - If there is an immediate, shall we say localised danger of persection, the first step is to seek protection in the wider (national)
community and if not available, and only then, outside of that in the international community. Proof of the first step is required before progressing to step 2. In this case there was no first step and increasingly it appears, no valid reason for it anyway.

I accept HollyB's contention that credibility may pull in extraneous factors but the core issue remains.

I am not sure what you mean by using emotive language. If there is one thing I know on these issues - the preserve of emotive language and censor free rhetoric is virtually a given for the LTS style individuals and they are not afraid to exploit that. Most everyone else, crosschecks, gives sources when requested, dots the I's - crosses the T's, heeds the many warnings and yet, still watch their step - even when basically feeding back the arguments presented them.

Permabear

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EnigmasWhisper

Wasnt she in court today . . is she on her way home yet ?

Permabear

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MIN2511

New legal what? Doesn't she have legal reps already? The money spent on this case could have been spent on other important issues.
Surely it would have been cheaper to grant her asylum/stay on humanitarian ground etc

Permabear

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MIN2511

donegalfella wrote: »

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Thanks for clarifying things...
I suppose its free legal aid as well

Permabear

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Salome

Does the fact that her legal team have stepped back indicate that they no longer believe her claims?

I wonder who will represent her next? Max Clifford? :rolleyes:

kathy2

I think its a great pity she is not on the plane now. Cost enough, cant imagine why supporters cant find genuine cause.

nw1dqsv7amx026

I spent a lot of time in the 90's working in Nigeria mostly in Lagos but also Abuja and Enugu. I became friendly with many Nigerians mostly Ebo.
I remember discussing circumcision (certainly I wouldn't use the term FGM in Nigeria) with one Nigerian who I was very friendly with. I didn't want to ask if his wife was circumcised so I asked if he would have any daughters cirmcumcised.
He told me that women needed this otherwise they wouldn't be able to control themselves, sexually that is. Nor would he be able to find a husband for them if it wasn't done.
So, I do believe this is a practise that is widely practised and expected .Iin my opinion disgusting.
The Irish will not stop this happening in Africa! Nor can we take in as a refugee every female African who has not been circumcised.
The only case of death from circumcision that I know of happened in Waterford to a Nigerian baby boy! This doesn't just happen in Africa or just to girls.
Previously we were told the father's family wanted it done. Now it seems he was involved in the deception and has been previously refused entry to Ireland.

The victims here are the yound girls who have been put in this situation by their parents, in all probablilty for economic reasons, I have children and I have spent a lot of time in Nigeria so I understand why.
What to do now, I don't know.
If we can deport a young boy with autisim then we should deport this family.
I certainly feel more sorry for that boy, his name was Great? At least his mother told the truth.

EnigmasWhisper

donegalfella wrote: »

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Ah, I see . . . ta

Kenneth Purring Quick-witted

Kenneth Purring Quick-witted wrote: »

He told me that women needed this otherwise they wouldn't be able to control themselves, sexually that is. Nor would he be able to find a husband for them if it wasn't done.
So, I do believe this is a practise that is widely practised and expected .Iin my opinion disgusting.

God, that's so infuriating. So is that idiot's article in the times...
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/0402/1224243862845.html

I have admitted in the article I mentioned earlier that I am not, despite being a Nigerian, knowledgeable in this matter of female circumcision but I would like to argue that it is rather Eurocentric and judgmental of the western media and commentators to deem the tradition barbaric.

I accept that female circumcision is an archaic tradition and no woman is benefited by it. So let us discuss it rationally and find the most effective way to enlighten those who still practise it. My view is that you cannot change a people’s traditional beliefs just like that, even if they are labelled barbaric. There are lots of atrocious things that westerners do that we Africans do not call “barbaric”. Therefore I think it is high time westerners stopped behaving as if they were the superior race as regards the issue of female circumcision.

Not to mention the complications alone that they can get into after childbirth for example, assuming they don't die outright.
:mad::mad::mad::mad:

opo

Kenneth Purring Quick-witted wrote: »

I spent a lot of time in the 90's working in Nigeria mostly in Lagos but also Abuja and Enugu. I became friendly with many Nigerians mostly Ebo.
I remember discussing circumcision (certainly I wouldn't use the term FGM in Nigeria) with one Nigerian who I was very friendly with. I didn't want to ask if his wife was circumcised so I asked if he would have any daughters cirmcumcised.
He told me that women needed this otherwise they wouldn't be able to control themselves, sexually that is. Nor would he be able to find a husband for them if it wasn't done.
So, I do believe this is a practise that is widely practised and expected .Iin my opinion disgusting.
The Irish will not stop this happening in Africa! Nor can we take in as a refugee every female African who has not been circumcised.
The only case of death from circumcision that I know of happened in Waterford to a Nigerian baby boy! This doesn't just happen in Africa or just to girls.
Previously we were told the father's family wanted it done. Now it seems he was involved in the deception and has been previously refused entry to Ireland.

The victims here are the yound girls who have been put in this situation by their parents, in all probablilty for economic reasons, I have children and I have spent a lot of time in Nigeria so I understand why.
What to do now, I don't know.
If we can deport a young boy with autisim then we should deport this family.
I certainly feel more sorry for that boy, his name was Great? At least his mother told the truth.

If only that were true.

An extract of one of her epic court sagas reveals:

http://tinyurl.com/2k2uvy

The basis of the application for asylum related to the alleged threats from the Nigerian ex-patriot community in Italy together with the alleged threat of female genital mutilation to the third named Applicant if the family were to return to Nigeria

No mention of autism. That was later when her claim for asylum and interminable judicial reviews were rejected, time and time again.

She was subsequently deported. Has moved to Ghana freely and has given a number of media interviews since. Plenty of time devoted to talking about the difficulties associated with raising her child but not so much as a mention of the FGM angle.

Not that the media would even dream of inquiring about something as trivial as her own, court submitted, sworn statements.

Philip Boucher-Hayes is by no means alone in what is, in general, a rather feeble and infantile media approach to such issues.

6ix

Just saw the report on today's case on RTE News. What is wrong with the "Let them Stay" campaigners? They clearly need their heads examined. This woman is a complete fraud, and has made a mockery of our system.

Having met various other residents of Globe House (where Pamela is in residence), who are far more worthy, in my opinion, of asylum here (escape from real war torn regions), I find it horrible that she can use her children in such a callous way, purely for economic gain. Furthermore, she has been downright dismissive of the help given to her by the state, unlike many of the other asylum-seekers who are genuinely thankful.

Then Pamela's campaigners are given airtime to spout further her fraudulent nonsense to the national media. What a joke. There are plenty of worthy causes for these do-gooders to join if they really want.

Sorry, I had to vent after seeing that 'Neighbourhood against Racism' person talking on the news. What the hell has this to do with Racism? :mad:

MIN2511

I am Nigerian and i never heard of FGM until Pamela's case.
I wasn't circumcised(btw, how do i know if i was or not?)

Permabear

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AlekSmart

Then Pamela's campaigners are given airtime to spout further her fraudulent nonsense to the national media.

Between now and the next round of this increasingly bizzarre case we can expect a very great damage-limitation exercise from the National Broadcaster.

There are important principles at stake here and in my opinion RTE should have moved to suspend Phillip Boucher-Hayes immediately after the Unokanjo affidavit became public.

This is a minimum response necessary for the Station to maintain it`s credibility as a NATIONAL Broadcasting Service.

I say Minimum,because I believe Mr Boiucher-Hayes`s professional position became untenable folowing his original submission of character references for Pamela Izevbekhai.

As this case rumbles on I am coming to believe that the REAL players of note are NOT Pamela Izevbekhai or her daughters but instead,her husband and his business associates.

I am still of the opinion that as of now,Ms Izevbekhai has no case,other than that which is built upon attempting to manipulate what is now quite obviously tainted evidence given to the highest courts in the land.

It must also be noted,and I have no doubt but it WILL be noted, by the Supreme Court that the Nigerian Government has given specific guarantees as to the PERSONAL safety of Ms Izevbekhai and her family.

These guarantees were given to the IRISH Government by a soverign democracy and therefore must be of some credence in legal terms as they implicitly involve our State in monitoring and reporting on how Nigeria meets its very publicly stated assurances.

The NIgerian Government takes its reputation on the World stage very seriously indeed and particularly amongst those states who were once part of the Empire and who are now free entities of themselves (us !)

All of the assurances given by the NIgerian Ambassador are open to the highest level of scrutiny uopn Pamela Izevbekhai`s return to her home country and that is where Ireland should be going on this.

The Raven.

AlekSmart wrote: »

Between now and the next round of this increasingly bizzarre case we can expect a very great damage-limitation exercise from the National Broadcaster.

There are important principles at stake here and in my opinion RTE should have moved to suspend Phillip Boucher-Hayes immediately after the Unokanjo affidavit became public.

This is a minimum response necessary for the Station to maintain it`s credibility as a NATIONAL Broadcasting Service.

I say Minimum,because I believe Mr Boiucher-Hayes`s professional position became untenable folowing his original submission of character references for Pamela Izevbekhai.

I must say that I am completely baffled by RTE of late. They are broadcasting a documentary this coming Sunday entitled 'Pamela's Story' on Would You Believe, RTÉ One, Sunday, 10.25pm, according to their website, also mentioned on TV today.

What baffles me is some of the information given on their website:

In 1994 Pamela Izevbekhai's 18month old daughter died from female genital mutilation at the hands of her husband's family. Four years ago she came here to seek asylum after attempts were made to circumcise her two young daughters Naomi and Jemima. Her initial application for asylum failed and since 2005 Pamela has been pleading her case in the Irish courts.

http://www.rte.ie/tv/wouldyoubelieve/

They are stating this as fact here, in spite of recent revelations. Are they asleep or am I dreaming ??

Permabear

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AlekSmart

In 1994 Pamela Izevbekhai's 18month old daughter died from female genital mutilation at the hands of her husband's family. Four years ago she came here to seek asylum after attempts were made to circumcise her two young daughters Naomi and Jemima. Her initial application for asylum failed and since 2005 Pamela has been pleading her case in the Irish courts.

Dreaming Raven..???....Blimey O Reilly thats more like a Nightmare of Edgar Allan Poe proportions....Certainly pulls no punches there does it.....?

Have we had evidence of the "attempts" made on Naomi and Jemima ?
This wording appears to infer a physical attempt...or have we missed some other vital element in our quest to be Right-Wing,Reactionary and perhaps Rascist also..???

I contend that the revelations of the past week,plus todays Supreme Court proceedings impose a duty of professional care upon the Members of the RTE Authority to suspend the screening of the programme.

Could the Supreme Court`s ongoing deliberations be described as sub-judice and therefore outside the realm of biased media coverage which may be intended to foster malicious intent towards State Policy and Laws ?

Given that a Senior RTE Investigative Reporter,Mr Boucher Hayes has an ongoing and perhaps contentious involvement with the furtherance of Ms Izevbekhai`s claims there are surely very serious questions of Professional and Public Responsibility at stake here.

Perhaps we need a new thread to cater for RTE and the Irish Times attitudes alone.... :eek:

The Raven.

donegalfella wrote: »

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Indeed it is!

I imagine that RTÉ filmed this documentary before the revelations emerged about the counterfeit documentation.

I haven't seen the RTE Guide hardcopy, but this is on their website. They really need to update it, at the very least.

I think the denizens of Boards.ie should borrow a video camera, get together, and make a competing documentary entitled Would You Ever Stop Being So Credulous?

LOL.:D!!

Permabear

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