Pamela Izevbekhai - Should She Be Deported?

Papad

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Firstly, you should have provided the links in your initial statement to disassociate it from the Myers piece that was being discussed. You misquoted, but did not lie.

And secondly, Myers was not aware of the fraud being perpetrated on the Irish people with the submission of forged documents to the courts when he said in 1998 that "a large part of" him believed that they should be allowed to stay. Now he is saying they should stay because of the backlash if anything happened to a girl if she was returned to Nigeria.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

herya

Papad wrote: »

Now he is saying they should stay because of the backlash if anything happened to a girl if she was returned to Nigeria.

This is so illogical of him. His whole point is about not creating precedence situations and then he is in favour of doing exactly this - his argument for letting them stay (as to avoid the outrage when they are returned to Nigeria and subsequently hurt) applies to every single FGM threatened girl coming from Nigeria and asking to stay in Ireland.

EnigmasWhisper

Sizzler wrote: »

The article has already been posted

Obviously, I felt the need to refer to it again so as to outline what I was commenting on. Instead of stating the obvious, perhaps contribute something constructive to the thread

Papad

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

You are right, it just feels like this particular case has been going on since 1998.

I remember back in 2002, when I came back to Ireland after years abroad, being amazed at the ease that Nigerians were getting Irish citizenship. I wrote to various Government ministers detailing my experience of Nigerians abroad and their abuse of the asylum process and expressed my dismay of automatic citizenship for children born in Ireland. Minister McDowell wrote back and emphatically explained that the Constitution would not be changed. Even my own family were endeared by the newcomers (at first) and I was reprimanded for voicing concern at their numbers.

Roll on 2 years later and 80% of the population approved a referendum where children born on the island of Ireland to parents who were both non-nationals no longer had a constitutional right to Irish citizenship.

I feel that a major abuse of the asylum process has occurred and Irish people are now paying the price for it, and will for a very long time.

AARRRGH

Anyone can get an Irish passport. I'll give two examples from my own life.

1. My ex's ex. He was a Korean criminal (served prison time) working in Ireland. He is an extremely violent man who used to beat up my ex in public, and tried to kill me. I heard he was going to apply for an Irish passport. I wrote to the Government (can't remember which department, but I looked up the correct one at the time) pleading not to consider his case. Six months later he had an Irish passport.

2. An old friend of mine who was a Russian criminal who came to Ireland with a bogus refugee claim. Worked here as a prostitute. Spent some time in prison. She now has an Irish passport.

And then we have my close friend from Kenya, who's parents are multi-millionaires and she lived here (without a job) living off her fathers money. She was highly educated (LSE) and spent a couple of thousand in our economy every month. They deported her fairly instantly.

It's ridiculous.

Mena

AARRRGH wrote: »

Anyone can get an Irish passport. I'll give two examples from my own life.

1. My ex's ex. He was a Korean criminal (served prison time) working in Ireland. He is an extremely violent man who used to beat up my ex in public, and tried to kill me. I heard he was going to apply for an Irish passport. I wrote to the Government (can't remember which department, but I looked up the correct one at the time) pleading not to consider his case. Six months later he had an Irish passport.

2. An old friend of mine who was a Russian criminal who came to Ireland with a bogus refugee claim. Worked here as a prostitute. Spent some time in prison. She now has an Irish passport.

And then we have my close friend from Kenya, who's parents are multi-millionaires and she lived here (without a job) living off her fathers money. She was highly educated (LSE) and spent a couple of thousand in our economy every month. They deported her fairly instantly.

It's ridiculous.

When was this? I'll be honest up front and say I am sceptical of these claims. Why? Because I am going through the process myself. I've been here going on 10 years, every year legal. I've contributed a shed load through my taxes/prsi/vat/VRT et al. I'm looking at a three year waiting period at best, and being inspected by every department the government has.

If I have ANY sort of criminal convicion, the process stops, dead in its tracks, before even reaching the minister for a decision. If I have claimed even 1 cent of social welfare (bar childrens allowance), the process is stopped, dead in its tracks. If there is even so much as a 10 minute gap in my INIS residence stamps, the process stops dead in its tracks. I could continue.

This has been the way the system operates for at least the past six years to the best of my knowledge.

So I would claim that no, it's not easy to get an Irish passport. Doable, yes. Easy. No.

weiss

Mena, perhaps you're not dishonest enough.
Our system rewards dishonesty

AARRRGH

Mena wrote: »

When was this? I'll be honest up front and say I am sceptical of these claims. Why? Because I am going through the process myself. I've been here going on 10 years, every year legal. I've contributed a shed load through my taxes/prsi/vat/VRT et al. I'm looking at a three year waiting period at best, and being inspected by every department the government has.

If I have ANY sort of criminal convicion, the process stops, dead in its tracks, before even reaching the minister for a decision. If I have claimed even 1 cent of social welfare (bar childrens allowance), the process is stopped, dead in its tracks. If there is even so much as a 10 minute gap in my INIS residence stamps, the process stops dead in its tracks. I could continue.

This has been the way the system operates for at least the past six years to the best of my knowledge.

So I would claim that no, it's not easy to get an Irish passport. Doable, yes. Easy. No.

The Korean would have gotten his passport in 2004.
The Russian got her passport in maybe 2006.

I've actually posted about both of them in the past, so they're not something I just made up on the spot.

Mena

AARRRGH wrote: »

The Korean would have gotten his passport in 2004.
The Russian got her passport in maybe 2006.

I've actually posted about both of them in the past, so they're not something I just made up on the spot.

I'm not accusing you of lying, really. I'm just sceptical because frankly, I feel like I am being torn a new one going through this process.

Which I feel is fair enough, the last thing one needs is for one's country to be handing out passports/citizenship ad hoc. It's something I believe I have earned and stories like yours just make me livid :mad:

AlekSmart

It's something I believe I have earned and stories like yours just make me livid

Mena has every right to be livid as the fallout from Ms Izevbekhai`s assault on the Irish Asylum process is already DIRECTLY affecting every other applicant.
The real "Irish" aspect to the thing is how it`s the GENUINE applicants who will suffer most and soonest......Unless of course Mena enlists the help of the LTS campaign !!

Mena

AlekSmart wrote: »

Mena has every right to be livid as the fallout from Ms Izevbekhai`s assault on the Irish Asylum process is already DIRECTLY affecting every other applicant.
The real "Irish" aspect to the thing is how it`s the GENUINE applicants who will suffer most and soonest......Unless of course Mena enlists the help of the LTS campaign !!

Not an asylum seeker. Legal Economic Migrant.

Sizzler

EnigmasWhisper wrote: »

Obviously, I felt the need to refer to it again so as to outline what I was commenting on. Instead of stating the obvious, perhaps contribute something constructive to the thread

I dont think it would have taken a genius to work out what article you were referring to in fairness :rolleyes:

opo

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Is anyone really surprised about another Nigerian woman coming up with this FGM story? The Govt practically asked for it with their inability to handle the Izevbekhai case.

Myers is entirely wrong to insinuate that the Izevbekhai case has spawned copycat cases.

Izevbekhai is a textbook copycat case.

FGM in Nigeria has been thrashed out hundreds, if not thousands of time at this stage, nationally and internationally - as an inadequate reason to be granted refugee status as - even if true - that an applicant cannot opt out of the procedure due to deranged third parties - internal relocation options are available.

We are signatories to the UNHCR Convention like it or not. The Dail may decide to opt out of this. The Dail cannot decide to delegate any reason for requesting asylum as ineligible as Myers suggests. If by some miracle they did, the bogus claimants would simply change their stories to suit - achieving a net sum of absolutely nothing.

Also, what would Myers suggest happen to those deported for previously claiming FGM as grounds for asylum?

Philip Boucher Hayes would be on the next plane to Nigeria interviewing Nigerians in hastily constructed bunkers no doubt - imploring LTS type individuals to "save" them.

The article is poorly researched and reaches absurd conclusions for someone so pointedly self congratulatory, for printing a supposed, alternative and reasonable viewpoint.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

walrusgumble

Papad wrote: »

You are right, it just feels like this particular case has been going on since 1998.

I remember back in 2002, when I came back to Ireland after years abroad, being amazed at the ease that Nigerians were getting Irish citizenship. I wrote to various Government ministers detailing my experience of Nigerians abroad and their abuse of the asylum process and expressed my dismay of automatic citizenship for children born in Ireland. Minister McDowell wrote back and emphatically explained that the Constitution would not be changed. Even my own family were endeared by the newcomers (at first) and I was reprimanded for voicing concern at their numbers.

Roll on 2 years later and 80% of the population approved a referendum where children born on the island of Ireland to parents who were both non-nationals no longer had a constitutional right to Irish citizenship.

I feel that a major abuse of the asylum process has occurred and Irish people are now paying the price for it, and will for a very long time.

mcdowell was senior counsel for the famous Fajounu (sp) case in the Supreme Court 1990 - the case these Nigerian newcomers heavily relied upon to stay.

I think the Europe Court case of Chen v UK scared McDowell as most of EU went mental blaming Ireland as being a back door to spead of "illegal immigrants" etc side stepping immigration system. (inter alia, chen case - ireland being citizenship for all of the island of ireland, meant once a citizen and EU citizen, and of course so long as certain matters (eg self finance etc) the family could stay in the UK - see case for full details)

mcdowell argued the chen case to support his motion to close the loophole - arguing that europe was making him.

rkeane

walrusgumble wrote: »

mcdowell was senior counsel for the famous Fajounu (sp) case in the Supreme Court 1990 - the case these Nigerian newcomers heavily relied upon to stay.

I think the Europe Court case of Chen v UK scared McDowell as most of EU went mental blaming Ireland as being a back door to spead of "illegal immigrants" etc side stepping immigration system. (inter alia, chen case - ireland being citizenship for all of the island of ireland, meant once a citizen and EU citizen, and of course so long as certain matters (eg self finance etc) the family could stay in the UK - see case for full details)

mcdowell argued the chen case to support his motion to close the loophole - arguing that europe was making him.

It was the best thing he did during his time as minister.

mealone43

Mena wrote: »

When was this? I'll be honest up front and say I am sceptical of these claims. Why? Because I am going through the process myself. I've been here going on 10 years, every year legal. I've contributed a shed load through my taxes/prsi/vat/VRT et al. I'm looking at a three year waiting period at best, and being inspected by every department the government has.

If I have ANY sort of criminal convicion, the process stops, dead in its tracks, before even reaching the minister for a decision. If I have claimed even 1 cent of social welfare (bar childrens allowance), the process is stopped, dead in its tracks. If there is even so much as a 10 minute gap in my INIS residence stamps, the process stops dead in its tracks. I could continue.

This has been the way the system operates for at least the past six years to the best of my knowledge.

So I would claim that no, it's not easy to get an Irish passport. Doable, yes. Easy. No.

Please tell us why your grounds for staying here are? 99% you are an economic refugee as there are very few places on earth that are not safe to live in. We are listening. You want to stay in my country that I helped developed and now you want to take advantage of that?

Mena

mealone43 wrote: »

Please tell us why your grounds for staying here are? 99% you are an economic refugee as there are very few places on earth that are not safe to live in. We are listening. You want to stay in my country that I helped developed and now you want to take advantage of that?

My grounds for wanting to stay here are that I want to stay here. I already said I was an economic migrant so your 99% fact is moot.

Tell me so, how exactly am I taking advantage of anything? Please.

Edit: This is also going totally off-topic, so perhaps you could open a new thread to discuss the validity of my status here.

procure11

I am a Nigerian legally resident in Ireland( and not via asylum or irish born child claims..thankfully) and have been living here for about 3 years ,I have met very lovely Irish people epecially in the little town I live in the south west.My experience here has been very memorable and I have enjoyed myself(I have worked and contributed to the Taxman so I am not the type of Nigerian you keep referring to unapologetically on this forum).

We cannot pretend that there is a lot of animosity(almost hatred) towards Nigerians in Ireland(understandably because Ireland has recieved in my opinion the most uneducated and unintelligent of my fellow country men and women compared to the UK and US where for instance a lot of Nigerians go there for studies,so essentially you would find a lot of Nigerian born doctors,nurses,engineers,scientists,lawyers,IT consultants and so effectively people in these countries are able to see some good in us).

I can reason with and share an average Irish citizen's view about Nigerians but I think sometimes you should look at the big picture and be less myopic.I have met a lot of Nigerians here in Ireland that I would not even talk to if we met in Lagos( a very beautiful city with its own challenges) but we all to accept that some of them are here to stay and we could reap the benefits in future ,for instance some of their offsprings could turn out to be very bright ,go to school and contribute meaningfully to the society.If Ireland harnesses their potential some could even bring sporting glories to this country.I also think there are a few that should be encouraged rather than be castigated ( I had a discussion with a Nigerian Taxi driver who felt that ever since Nigerians started applying for and getting taxi plates there has been a lot of uproar from the majority of the Irish populace and yet parodixically they complain when they are not working),believe me some of us can be very nice and enterprising.

Coming to Pamela Izevbekhai's case ,I think she should be deported as soon as possible.She is a big fraud and you can tell it from 10 miles away.It is absolutely impossible for anyone with her education and family status to be forced or coerced into having this procedure done.It is bo_ _ cks.I was very angry when I watched the RTE programme in which she featured and was saying a lot of crap and taking people for fools.I have been working part time as an interpreter for various law firms and refugee services for about 6 months now and the emotions I have felt are ones of bewilderment,shock,and anxiety after listening to a lot of unscrupulous claims by people who would say anything just to stay in Ireland.Professionally I am not allowed to make comments or make any judgements relating to their stories but I literarily refrain myself from laughing out loud during the interviews because I know that almost 99.99999% ( do the maths) of the claims are absolutely false and mostly laughable.

Without sounding boring,I think you should realise we are a country of almost 150 million people and there is bound to be all sorts of characters.Paradoxically in Nigeria,we hold Irish people in high esteem because of their missionary schools and churches but importantly GUINNESS(Diageo make makes most profits in Nigeria after the US).I engage with most Irish people I meet to explain and prove we are not all bad ,but I also think the Irish should not generalise and think all Nigerians are bad ..We are not.God bless you all

rkeane

Thanks for the post procure11, I for one don't believe all Nigerians are bad. We have received tens of thousands of bogus asylum claims from Nigerians, this is the reason for the negative view shared by many Irish people. I recognise that many Nigerians (including doctors I know well) are embarrased by these scammers, we certainly can't tar you all with the same brush.

Cases like that of Pamela Izevbekhai really need to be dealt with quicker, this case was rotten from the very outset....it really cements negative views of Nigerians.

EnigmasWhisper

procure11 wrote: »

I am a Nigerian legally resident in Ireland( and not via asylum or irish born child claims..thankfully) and have been living here for about 3 years ,I have met very lovely Irish people epecially in the little town I live in the south west.My experience here has been very memorable and I have enjoyed myself(I have worked and contributed to the Taxman so I am not the type of Nigerian you keep referring to unapologetically on this forum).

We cannot pretend that there is a lot of animosity(almost hatred) towards Nigerians in Ireland(understandably because Ireland has recieved in my opinion the most uneducated and unintelligent of my fellow country men and women compared to the UK and US where for instance a lot of Nigerians go there for studies,so essentially you would find a lot of Nigerian born doctors,nurses,engineers,scientists,lawyers,IT consultants and so effectively people in these countries are able to see some good in us).

I can reason with and share an average Irish citizen's view about Nigerians but I think sometimes you should look at the big picture and be less myopic.I have met a lot of Nigerians here in Ireland that I would not even talk to if we met in Lagos( a very beautiful city with its own challenges) but we all to accept that some of them are here to stay and we could reap the benefits in future ,for instance some of their offsprings could turn out to be very bright ,go to school and contribute meaningfully to the society.If Ireland harnesses their potential some could even bring sporting glories to this country.I also think there are a few that should be encouraged rather than be castigated ( I had a discussion with a Nigerian Taxi driver who felt that ever since Nigerians started applying for and getting taxi plates there has been a lot of uproar from the majority of the Irish populace and yet parodixically they complain when they are not working),believe me some of us can be very nice and enterprising.

Coming to Pamela Izevbekhai's case ,I think she should be deported as soon as possible.She is a big fraud and you can tell it from 10 miles away.It is absolutely impossible for anyone with her education and family status to be forced or coerced into having this procedure done.It is bo_ _ cks.I was very angry when I watched the RTE programme in which she featured and was saying a lot of crap and taking people for fools.I have been working part time as an interpreter for various law firms and refugee services for about 6 months now and the emotions I have felt are ones of bewilderment,shock,and anxiety after listening to a lot of unscrupulous claims by people who would say anything just to stay in Ireland.Professionally I am not allowed to make comments or make any judgements relating to their stories but I literarily refrain myself from laughing out loud during the interviews because I know that almost 99.99999% ( do the maths) of the claims are absolutely false and mostly laughable.

Without sounding boring,I think you should realise we are a country of almost 150 million people and there is bound to be all sorts of characters.Paradoxically in Nigeria,we hold Irish people in high esteem because of their missionary schools and churches but importantly GUINNESS(Diageo make makes most profits in Nigeria after the US).I engage with most Irish people I meet to explain and prove we are not all bad ,but I also think the Irish should not generalise and think all Nigerians are bad ..We are not.God bless you all

Refreshingly intelligent, sensible, logical post

realismpol

whats this really all about? Seriously i just read through 164 pages on infighting between those who want this woman gone and those who want to support her. We get something happen in the case and we then have the 'told you so' brigade come out. We get something else pop up and we have the pc brigade in.

But what really is the issue here and why has it generated 164 pages, the most i've seen for a single issue on this forum. How does this particular issue or any other issue make any difference to people on the ground. The truth is it doesn't.


Does it? Coz i think it doesn't. I think its just another group of people or issue to vent frustration at. Frustration for people who think immigrants/governement/anyone in authority cause the issues. Last week people were ranting on about eastern europeans on the dole now this. Face facts outside of your lives which you stand as an individual nothing matters. The government aren't there to look after you, you are there to look after yourself and yet people rant and rave about things they do. They can't do anything right.

In times of economic boom nobody cared that jimmy foreigner was cleaning the toilets, working on the lines in computer plants etc now everyone's losing their jobs the knives come out. I see the level of frustration is rising over incidents like this and people are taking these issues way too seriously. People think they are in some large community and everyone looks after one another? Lol comon, its everyman for himself and outside of this forum and pretending ireland isn't a changed place i see every man for himself. I see people driving around in big cars, hiding behind their gated houses. If everyman and woman is honest with himself in here he/she will know the above is true.

I don't see people even caring wheither their own neighbours exist in this country anymore, I see people who would knock another down on the road and then drive off as if nothing happened. People are afraid to even help others nowadays. The first thing they want to do is look after themselves and stick the knife in on others fault as soon as they see something which doesn't suit their worldview. Hence the existance of this forum and its popularity. There is lot of anger and frustration at the percieved 'short end of the straw' we are supposedly all getting.

If she gets deported it won't make any difference to your life trust me, if she doesn't it won't either. You'll still feel the same way about yourself. If the government changed every single law to suit people, people would still be complaining and saying they were getting the short end of the stick. Just a thought.

ParkRunner

realismpol wrote: »

whats this really all about? Seriously i just read through 164 pages on infighting between those who want this woman gone and those who want to support her. We get something happen in the case and we then have the 'told you so' brigade come out. We get something else pop up and we have the pc brigade in.

But what really is the issue here and why has it generated 164 pages, the most i've seen for a single issue on this forum. How does this particular issue or any other issue make any difference to people on the ground. The truth is it doesn't.


Does it? Coz i think it doesn't. I think its just another group of people or issue to vent frustration at. Frustration for people who think immigrants/governement/anyone in authority cause the issues. Last week people were ranting on about eastern europeans on the dole now this. Face facts outside of your lives which you stand as an individual nothing matters. The government aren't there to look after you, you are there to look after yourself and yet people rant and rave about things they do. They can't do anything right.

In times of economic boom nobody cared that jimmy foreigner was cleaning the toilets, working on the lines in computer plants etc now everyone's losing their jobs the knives come out. I see the level of frustration is rising over incidents like this and people are taking these issues way too seriously. People think they are in some large community and everyone looks after one another? Lol comon, its everyman for himself and outside of this forum and pretending ireland isn't a changed place i see every man for himself. I see people driving around in big cars, hiding behind their gated houses. If everyman and woman is honest with himself in here he/she will know the above is true.

I don't see people even caring wheither their own neighbours exist in this country anymore, I see people who would knock another down on the road and then drive off as if nothing happened. People are afraid to even help others nowadays. The first thing they want to do is look after themselves and stick the knife in on others fault as soon as they see something which doesn't suit their worldview. Hence the existance of this forum and its popularity. There is lot of anger and frustration at the percieved 'short end of the straw' we are supposedly all getting.

If she gets deported it won't make any difference to your life trust me, if she doesn't it won't either. You'll still feel the same way about yourself. If the government changed every single law to suit people, people would still be complaining and saying they were getting the short end of the stick. Just a thought.

I have found it to be an interesting forum because I have studied and worked in related areas. While it won't make a difference to many here if she is deported or not there is a much bigger picture about:

the practice of FGM & corruption in Nigeria and across the world, the inefficiencies in the asylum process, the whole concept of what asylum is and the importance of sticking to the facts in any case, the abuse of the asylum process by fraudulent applicants, the role of the media and the at times biased attitude shown by them in such asylum cases, the ineptitude of the media to discover the facts before putting their case forward in the national media, the cost to the State in accommodating asylum seekers, the cost to the State of legal challenges made against decisions in the asylum process, the racism issue...etc I could go on.

It won't make any difference to my life if Pamela and her two children are or are not deported, but Pamela has failed to show that she and her two children qualify for refugee status or any other protection and the courts have upheld every decision of the Minister and these decisions must be respected.

Her case is only one of many thousand cases in the asylum process where the applicant has not qualified for any form of protection and they are challenging the negative decision by any and every means possible. Pamela has put herself and her two children in the media spotlight and she has given us a platform to raise the issues surrounding the asylum system. The country simply can't afford to turn a blind eye to the faults that currently exist in the asylum process and the blatant abuse of this process which occurs.

silverharp

realismpol wrote: »

If she gets deported it won't make any difference to your life trust me, if she doesn't it won't either. You'll still feel the same way about yourself. If the government changed every single law to suit people, people would still be complaining and saying they were getting the short end of the stick. Just a thought.

realistically anything to do with politics either doesnt affect you directly or if it does you cant do anything about it. I like the thread beacuse it has exposed how poor the media is here , how gullible her supporters have been. So for me its just a spectator sport looking on at the madness of crowds (present company not included)

Serenity Now!

mealone43 wrote: »

Please tell us why your grounds for staying here are? 99% you are an economic refugee as there are very few places on earth that are not safe to live in. We are listening. You want to stay in my country that I helped developed and now you want to take advantage of that?

Same as any other 'economic' migrant who has come here to live be they from Australia, Norway, NZ, the States or any African nation and perfectly entitled to do so.
They have contributed to the country both fiscally and culturally therefore they have "developed" this country as much as you have.

Why do people need to keep being reminded that legal immigrants are not the same as illegal immigrants or even asylum seekers? (well, the answer is obvious so consider that a rhetorical question)

zynaps

mealone43 wrote: »

Please tell us why your grounds for staying here are? 99% you are an economic refugee as there are very few places on earth that are not safe to live in. We are listening. You want to stay in my country that I helped developed and now you want to take advantage of that?

An "economic refugee"? You're mixing up two very different terms - an economic migrant and a refugee. They are not the same.

The issue in this thread is of a person trying to game the refugee system to stay in the country for economic reasons (presumably - the point has been raised that Izevbekhai was quite well off in Nigeria, with a large house and servants - if so, what is her real ulterior motive for staying here?).
An economic migrant is someone who follows the correct channels to get here and stays under no pretenses of requiring emergency asylum. They are as hard-working as you or I, and pay more tax while receiving less state benefits in general**.

You seem to be making the assumption that anyone who moves to another country as an economic migrant is taking some unfair advantage of the hard work of locals (i.e. the country you "helped developed").
Are you suggesting that if you or I or any Irish person moves to, say, Canada or Japan, to find a job and enjoy the culture, they are doing something wrong? That's what it sounds like from your post, and it's frankly a very poor and closed-minded attitude.

** (e.g. having to pay what, €150 now for GNIB cards, having to pay for 're-entry visas' just to come back into Ireland if they travel abroad, even though they have perfectly valid visas already , restricted travel around Europe, having to pay something like a thousand euro a year for a work permit if the employer chooses not to, not being able to vote most of the time, and so on)

marcsignal

procure11 wrote: »

I am a Nigerian legally resident in Ireland................I engage with most Irish people I meet to explain and prove we are not all bad ,but I also think the Irish should not generalise and think all Nigerians are bad ..We are not.God bless you all

excellent post procure11

The Raven.

marcsignal wrote: »

excellent post procure11

There is another thread by the OP with the same post, entitled:

Are Nigerians really that bad

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=59878474#post59878474

I presume it was opened to stop this one going off topic !

Permabear

This post has been deleted.