Pamela Izevbekhai - Should She Be Deported?

rkeane

HollyB wrote: »

Are you seriously suggesting that Naomi and Jemima Izevbekhai have been so "softened" by living in one room in a direct provision hostel that life in their parents' "pretty comfortable and spacious" home in Nigeria, complete with "four household maids" would seem harsh by comparison? Or that being dragged to and from the courts, while being cut off from part of their family, would be preferable to them being reunited with their father and brother?

Has Pamela provided any non forged proof to show that she has a son in Nigeria?

HollyB

rkeane wrote: »

Has Pamela provided any non forged proof to show that she has a son in Nigeria?

Some newspapers now seem to be under the impression that the mysterious Adrian Izevbekhai is not actually Pamela's biological son after all; he's Tony's son, and Pamela helped to bring him up... of course, that contradicts the article the Irish Times published in January. Pamela is quoted as saying: "Everything was fine. We dated, got married and had our son, Adrian."

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/magazine/2009/0117/1232059654508.html

rkeane

HollyB wrote: »

Some newspapers now seem to be under the impression that the mysterious Adrian Izevbekhai is not actually Pamela's biological son after all; he's Tony's son, and Pamela helped to bring him up... of course, that contradicts the article the Irish Times published in January. Pamela is quoted as saying: "Everything was fine. We dated, got married and had our son, Adrian."

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/magazine/2009/0117/1232059654508.html

Apparently her new legal team are seeking to introduce a new "document" - an 'attestation of death' certificate....... they claim this proves that Elizabeth existed. Something tells me it will be thrown out.

HollyB

rkeane wrote: »

Apparently her new legal team are seeking to introduce a new "document" - an 'attestation of death' certificate....... they claim this proves that Elizabeth existed. Something tells me it will be thrown out.

It's certainly not going to be accepted at face value, that's for certain. The court can't take anything on faith after what happened last time. It's going to have to be scrutinized very carefully to make sure that it's genuine and not another forgery - though why Tony Izevbekhai would send forged documents to his wife if he had real evidence to begin with is beyond me - before they can think about admitting it as evidence.

O'Coonassa

jmcc wrote: »

Yes, but this is Ireland. And in Ireland we have rules and laws. You don't seem to have any respect for our laws or institutions given the way that you seem to consider the submission of forged documentation to the Irish Supreme Court and the European Court of Human Rights to be acceptable. Uttering forged documentation completely destroys the basis for the case. It has resulted in the legal team for PI coming off the record (removing themselves from the case). But you obviously don't see any problem with submitting forged documentation. The State investigated the claims and submitted affidavits showing that the documentation submitted by PI was forged. The Irish Supreme Court has to deal with that reality rather than your questionable "moral compass".

Regards...jmcc

I don't respect any of the laws of men that run contrary to the laws of God. Clearly sending or causing little kids to be exposed to African mortality rates is inhumane.

rkeane

O'Coonassa wrote: »

I don't respect any of the laws of men that run contrary to the laws of God. Clearly sending or causing little kids to be exposed to African mortality rates is inhumane.

Well you can't argue with God can you....lol

O'Coonassa

HollyB wrote: »

Are you seriously suggesting that Naomi and Jemima Izevbekhai have been so "softened" by living in one room in a direct provision hostel that life in their parents' "pretty comfortable and spacious" home in Nigeria, complete with "four household maids" would seem harsh by comparison? Or that being dragged to and from the courts, while being cut off from part of their family, would be preferable to them being reunited with their father and brother?

I'm suggesting that almost anybody reared in the West will last no time in Africa living like an African.

Maids, luxury cars and spacious homes such as have been reported on are the preserve of African elites, they are comfortable where they are, why would they leave the land of their birth?

rkeane

O'Coonassa wrote: »

I'm suggesting that almost anybody reared in the West will last no time in Africa living like an African.

Maids, luxury cars and spacious homes such as have been reported on are the preserve of African elites, they are comfortable where they are, why would they leave the land of their birth?

Based on half the rubbish you have posted on this thread I don't think anything you suggest would be taken seriously

jmcc

O'Coonassa wrote: »

I don't respect any of the laws of men that run contrary to the laws of God. Clearly sending or causing little kids to be exposed to African mortality rates is inhumane.

I seem to recall one commandment about bearing false witness. And another about coveting one's neighbour's goods. So can you ignore these laws too?

Regards...jmcc

rkeane

jmcc wrote: »

I seem to recall one commandment about bearing false witness. And another about coveting one's neighbour's goods. So can you ignore these laws too?

Regards...jmcc

Brilliant

O'Coonassa

rkeane wrote: »

Based on half the rubbish you have posted on this thread I don't think anything you suggest would be taken seriously

Very good gratuitous insult but unlike most of the people posting on this thread I've actually lived in Africa and know fairly well who it is talking shíte. Whoever would pick up two westernised little girls and drop them in sub-Saharan Africa has ceased to be human.

O'Coonassa

jmcc wrote: »

I seem to recall one commandment about bearing false witness. And another about coveting one's neighbour's goods. So can you ignore these laws too?

Regards...jmcc

What has a bronze age fable by semi-literate nomadic Jews got to do with anything?

HollyB

rkeane wrote: »

Well you can't argue with God can you....lol

And if God didn't want people to be exposed to Africa, presumably nobody would ever be born there... :rolleyes:

HollyB

O'Coonassa wrote: »

Maids, luxury cars and spacious homes such as have been reported on are the preserve of African elites, they are comfortable where they are, why would they leave the land of their birth?

According to their mother's account, this is the lifestyle that they were accustomed to before she brought them to Ireland where, as I have said, they are living in one room in direct provision accommodation. Since Naomi and Jemima were something like 4 and 2 when they left Nigeria, I doubt that they were the ones to choose whether or not to leave.

fraz1971

Very good gratuitous insult but unlike most of the people posting on this thread I've actually lived in Africa and know fairly well who it is talking shíte. Whoever would pick up two westernised little girls and drop them in sub-Saharan Africa has ceased to be human.

What bloody insult? I've lived in Equitorial Guinea, Cameroon and South Africa to name but a few. You are talking cobblers. Based on what RAR say to prove Pamela is not an economic migrant she would have a much better life in Nigeria. She's a high flying city banker, and Tony has a successful IT business.

Now that the asylum claims have been blown out of the water they're going back to poverty? Please pick a line and stick to it. When you are dealing with the courts you can't change the story everytime you trip up.

Now we are supposed to be convinced that Pamela will not be protected by the laws of Nigeria. FGM is after all illegal there. We are told that she must run to Ireland where we uphold our laws. Well the thing is this. If we follow Nigeria's example and turn a blind eye to law breaking. Then we are importing Nigerian lawlessness. We must uphold the laws of our society and punish those who break the law. If we do not do that. Then our society will end up like Nigeria's which is corrupt. Nobody should be above the law. If that's the society you want, then Nigeria is the place to go and live. You just can't live in Ireland and pick the bits that suit you and discard the bits that don't.

Coonassa. You would have half of Africa in Ireland given half a chance. What you did not learn in Africa is that society breaks down if it does not have the means to deal with huge population growth. Sorry mate, but Nigeria is one of those places. Ireland must not become like that. All immigrants must respect our laws, or respectfully leave it Ireland does not suit them.

jmcc

The Sunday Tribune has its latest article about the case online:

http://www.tribune.ie/news/home-news/article/2009/apr/26/izevbekhai-lawyers-obtain-death-cert/

Regards...jmcc

Nodin

fraz1971 wrote: »

Well the thing is this. If we follow Nigeria's example and turn a blind eye to law breaking. Then we are importing Nigerian lawlessness. We must uphold the laws of our society and punish those who break the law. If we do not do that. Then our society will end up like Nigeria's which is corrupt. Nobody should be above the law. If that's the society you want, then Nigeria is the place to go and live. You just can't live in Ireland and pick the bits that suit you and discard the bits that don't.

Depends how much you earn a year, tbh.

Vinegar Hill

jmcc wrote: »

The Sunday Tribune has its latest article about the case online:

http://www.tribune.ie/news/home-news/article/2009/apr/26/izevbekhai-lawyers-obtain-death-cert/

Regards...jmcc

So what are we to do now? Send another Gardai team to nigeria to interview the doctor again. He already stated the death cert was a forgery and that Elizabeth did not exist. Are we to accept a second certificate now as proof positive?

HollyB

Vinegar Hill wrote: »

So what are we to do now? Send another Gardai team to nigeria to interview the doctor again. He already stated the death cert was a forgery and that Elizabeth did not exist. Are we to accept a second certificate now as proof positive?

Anybody want to bet that Pamela and her lawyers will claim that the Nigerian government will try to erase records of Elizabeth in order to prove that their genuine certificate is a forgery, and that the court must therefore accept their evidence as genuine since an investigation would be tainted by the Nigerian authorities' determination to make Pamela out to be a liar?

Of course, it does raise the somewhat awkward question about why, when Tony was sending the false documentation, he neglected to send the real one that he apparently had all along.

The Raven.

jmcc wrote: »

The Sunday Tribune has its latest article about the case online:

http://www.tribune.ie/news/home-news/article/2009/apr/26/izevbekhai-lawyers-obtain-death-cert/

Regards...jmcc

Thanks, jmmc. I have been trying to get the Tribune on line. It comes on late in the day. I have just read the article. For those who haven't read it, this quote gives the main points:

Lawyers for the Nigerian have received documents which they claim prove daughter Elizabeth died.

Pamela Izevbekhai and her daughters: she claims another daughter, Elizabeth, died as a result of female genital mutilation

Lawyers representing Nigerian mother-of-two Pamela Izevbekhai have obtained 'attestation of death' documentation which they claim will prove she had a daughter, Elizabeth, who died from complications of female genital mutilation (FGM).

It is the latest twist in Izevbekhai's fight against her family's deportation after she admitted four weeks ago that some documents she presented to the court concerning the apparent death of her child from complications of FGM in 1994 were forgeries.

Government sources have dismissed Izevbekhai's law­yers' claims about the new documentation supposedly proving her daughter's death saying that "if this baby did live and die, why did Pamela initially provide fake documents to the courts?"

Izevbekhai and her husband Tony, who lives in Nigeria following his deportation from the UK when his application for refugee status failed, have now hired a lawyer in Nigeria who is examining the validity of these documents.

Solicitors in Dublin have been provided with documentation in which it is claimed that Elizabeth existed and died from complications of FGM.

"We have obtained an 'attestation of death' document that I am satisfied is a genuine legal document," said a legal source involved in the Izevbekhai case.

On Thursday the case will be briefly mentioned before the Supreme Court and there may be a change of solicitors representing Izevbekhai as her previous solicitor Gabriel Toolan will step down following her admission regarding false documentation. Her new solicitor will then seek an adjournment.

"The new documentation is our equivalent of a death cert. We will also be submitting affidavits that Dr Unokanjo did treat Elizabeth but that she was referred to another doctor at a different hospital," continued the source.

I wonder where they got this latest 'documentation', which they describe as 'our equivalent of a death cert'. That sounds a bit dodgy for a start. It will be interesting to hear more about the Nigerian 'lawyer' hired by the Izevbekhais.

The Raven.

I forgot this bit:

"We will also be submitting affidavits that Dr Unokanjo did treat Elizabeth but that she was referred to another doctor at a different hospital,"

Enter doctor number four, who very conveniently works at a different hospital :rolleyes:!!

HollyB

The Raven. wrote: »

I forgot this bit:



Enter doctor number four, who very conveniently works at a different hospital :rolleyes:!!

You'd think that Pamela would have remembered that, instead of sending Philip Boucher Hayes and Antonia Leslie off to talk to the two separate Dr Unokanjo's who treated Elizabeth when she died. If the other doctor was the one who actually treated Elizabeth when she died, did Pamela not notice something off when it was "Dr Unokanjo", a doctor at a different hospital to the one Elizabeth died at, who signed the affidavits?

fraz1971

OK. Now they have pulled a death cert out of thin air. It is from another doctor. Pamela must have forgotten that Elizabeth was referred to a totally different doctor before she died. It's not exactly the kind of thing you would forget. Why pay good money for forgeries whithout approaching the doctor who issued the cert? Would they not have thought it wise to keep the original certs of birth and death? People like RAR know that deportation is imminant and this is a stalling tactic.

They have a cheek to tell us they obtained a death from another doctor when they discredited Dr Unokanjo and called him corrupt. They also said the he delivered Elizabeth which he denies. Will the new doctor also claim that he delivered Elizabeth too? The memories of Pamela and Tony are conveniently seem to come back just at the right moment.

Come on people. How do you not know where your child died? The only explanation for this is that the whole story is fabricated. I think that Pamela and Tony watched Darby O'gill one too many times. They thought they were coming to a nation of eejits.

The Raven.

HollyB wrote: »

You'd think that Pamela would have remembered that, instead of sending Philip Boucher Hayes and Antonia Leslie off to talk to the two separate Dr Unokanjo's who treated Elizabeth when she died. If the other doctor was the one who actually treated Elizabeth when she died, did Pamela not notice something off when it was "Dr Unokanjo", a doctor at a different hospital to the one Elizabeth died at, who signed the affidavits?

Good point! They will also have to come up with a different name for this other 'doctor'. Maybe they have contacts in this other hospital, whom they have paid to produce a death cert.

It looks like they have dug themselves into a hole, yet they keep digging. Why on earth are they still persisting? Is there something more to this or what?

opo

HollyB wrote: »

You'd think that Pamela would have remembered that, instead of sending Philip Boucher Hayes and Antonia Leslie off to talk to the two separate Dr Unokanjo's who treated Elizabeth when she died. If the other doctor was the one who actually treated Elizabeth when she died, did Pamela not notice something off when it was "Dr Unokanjo", a doctor at a different hospital to the one Elizabeth died at, who signed the affidavits?

Indeed. Perhaps she also forgot to listen to the two radio interviews where two different hoax "doctors" managed to recite from the same forged death cert.

HollyB

The Raven. wrote: »

It looks like they have dug themselves into a hole, yet they keep digging. Why on earth are they still persisting? Is there something more to this or what?

What have they got to lose by persisting? If, by some miracle, Pamela has managed to pull a rabbit out of her hat and is able to secure leave to remain for her family, she has what she wants. If not, then she goes back to Nigeria to what, by her own account, is a very comfortable life.

It's not as though she's going to have to foot the bills for her legal action if she loses - you'll see one of the people who are going to have to foot the bill for it every time you walk past a mirror.

The Raven.

fraz1971 wrote: »

Come on people. How do you not know where your child died?

Excuse me ?? Who are you addressing here?

HollyB

The Raven. wrote: »

Excuse me ?? Who are you addressing here?

The Izevbekhai parents, I imagine.

First, Elizabeth died at Dr Unokanjo's hospital, under his care but he wouldn't give them a death certificate for a child that, to the best of his knowledge, neither lived nor died, and she has now died at a different hospital under the care of a different doctor.

The Raven.

HollyB wrote: »

What have they got to lose by persisting? If, by some miracle, Pamela has managed to pull a rabbit out of her hat and is able to secure leave to remain for her family, she has what she wants. If not, then she goes back to Nigeria to what, by her own account, is a very comfortable life.

It still seems such an extraordinary amount of effort just to stay here. I have never seen anything like it. No doubt she will face serious consequences if/when she loses. I have often wondered if the pair of them had further scams in mind, like helping other fake 'refugees'.

fraz1971

Excuse me ?? Who are you addressing here?

Anyone who is involved in the discussion really. You know I'm not addressing you personally? Is that the only part of the post that interested you? How would you not know where your child died. Anyone with half a brain would be able to pick a million holes in this story if he had the time to even get fully clued up on this saga.