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Pamela Izevbekhai - Should She Be Deported?

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    #242
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    asdasd wrote: »
    The only people criticising Nigerian culture here are the Open borders fanatics ( backward Nigeria's got FGM).

    But as I said before FGM is merely a mechanism by which the PC brigade try and legitimise unrestricted immigration from Nigeria. .

    Could you quote and link to where a member of the "PC brigade has advocated unrestricted immigration from Nigeria?
    asdasd wrote: »
    the thing is of course they would chant racism if some politican were to demand a reduction in Male nigerian immigration because of the risk of FGM spreading here..

    FGM is not exclusively enforced by males - quite often its the Women.
    Not all Nigerians practice FGM.
    asdasd wrote: »
    It is both popular that she should be deported and true that she should be, under international law.

    Nice that you've referred to the law now. What if the European court decides she has a case?
    donegalfella wrote:
    This post has been deleted.

    And why would this be?
    donegalfella wrote:
    This post has been deleted.

    And would you prefer that we said "screw your rights, you're nigerian" and sent them back?
    donegalfella wrote:
    This post has been deleted.

    They have? Do we have a source for this....?


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    #243
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #244
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.
    Could you be a little more specific? A link would be nice.


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    #245
    Irlbo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 347 ✭✭Irlbo


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Exactly,put simple,it isnt because these people are black or Nigerian,its because a vast amount of Nigerians want everything handed to them for nothing,they refuse to work and are extremely rude and ungrateful at the gratitude being shown to them,you'd think people who'd being saved from the threat of genital mutilation would be more thankful,and not try and leech off us


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    #246
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #247
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Irlbo wrote: »
    Exactly,put simple,it isnt because these people are black or Nigerian,its because a vast amount of Nigerians want everything handed to them for nothing,they refuse to work and are extremely rude and ungrateful at the gratitude being shown to them,you'd think people who'd being saved from the threat of genital mutilation would be more thankful,and not try and leech off us
    So it's not because "these people" are Nigerian, it's because they're Nigerian?


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    #248
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Irlbo wrote: »
    Exactly,put simple,it isnt because these people are black or Nigerian,its because a vast amount of Nigerians want everything handed to them for nothing,they refuse to work and are extremely rude and ungrateful at the gratitude being shown to them,

    And where do you get this information from, might I ask?


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    #249
    Macha
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,376 Mod ✭✭✭✭Macha


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Thanks for that link. However, I would not put my trust in anything the Nigerian Embassy says. I used to, until I heard the ambassador on the radio trying to say that forced FGM has been eradicated in Nigeria, that the laws are sufficient protection and that it's just a matter of choice (how exactly does a 12 year-old girl decide to have her clitoris cut off?).


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    #250
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.
    Ok, a few points:
    • 1,513 applications from Nigerian nationals were received in the 18 months prior to the article's publication - how many of those applications have been fully processed?
    • The spokesperson from the Nigerian embassy is hardly going to say anything other than the fact that the Nigerian government is doing a great job, is (s)he? Fact of the matter is, as I have already pointed out, Amnesty International strongly disagree with his/her assessment of the situation (indeed, the article mentions this).
    • We have an abnormally low acceptance rate for asylum applications - do you not think it might be an idea to investigate why this is?
    • Regarding the quote from Aine Ní Chónaill; "Almost all cases involve economic migrants, mostly people of significant means who have managed to leave Africa in the first place." - when did it become a requirement that asylum seekers be poor? Surely an asylum seeker of "significant means" contradicts the economic migrant theory?


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    #251
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #252
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    It means that the courts decided they were not valid grounds. Thats rather different from them being either brought fradulently or being without merit.

    From your article
    Tribune wrote:
    Chinese nationals also face a near blanket refusal for claims. More than 330 people from China, which has one of the worst human rights records in the world, have sought refugee status since the beginning of 2007 but no more than 18 have been successful.

    While there is that court related content (though it doesnt refer to "abuse", what I didn't see in that article is anything about the rest of your claim)
    outrageous abuse of our country's pre-2004 citizenship laws, our welfare system,


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    #253
    TheVan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 738 ✭✭✭TheVan


    I'm thinking the ECtHR will rule in her favour. The ECtHR has repeatedly refused to deport persons to countries where there is a good chance they will be tortured (Chahal v. UK and Saadi v. Italy). Its only a small jump to say that there's a very real chance that her daughters will be maltreated and abused.

    If nothing else, there is a reasonably easy way to prevent the floodgates opening to anyone from any country that practices FGM. Her family has directly, and unwillingly experienced FGM and the family has fled the country of origin because of a direct and real threat to another member of the family of unwilling FGM. This should mark them out as persons who deserve a chance in another country.


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    #254
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #255
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #256
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Its rather more complicated than that. Again, from that article -

    Chinese nationals also face a near blanket refusal for claims. More than 330 people from China, which has one of the worst human rights records in the world, have sought refugee status since the beginning of 2007 but no more than 18 have been successful.


    ..are the Chinese liars en masse too?

    I'm still awaiting a source for....
    outrageous abuse of our country's pre-2004 citizenship laws, our welfare system,
    and reasons relating to high unemployment amongst nigerians.


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    #257
    Irlbo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 347 ✭✭Irlbo


    djpbarry wrote: »
    So it's not because "these people" are Nigerian, it's because they're Nigerian?

    No you missed my point entirely,I said its not because their Nigerian,its a vast amount of people that happen to be Nigerians that are doing this,Im sure you'll throw the 'our own do it too'' and so on and any excuse to eclipse the argument back to our own,but the original point remains,alot of Nigerians are using and abusing this system and havent even the manners to say thanks


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    #258
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #259
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #260
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    A fact more related to Geography than anything else, I'd imagine.
    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    I'm afraid the statement
    outrageous abuse of our country's pre-2004 citizenship laws, our welfare system,
    requires a rather more substantive answer than that evasion.
    donegalfella wrote: »
    Well, you tell me. If 84 percent of working-age Poles can find jobs, why can only 38 percent of working-age Nigerians?

    I've no idea. You made the statement, I'm asking you.


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    #261
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #262
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    A rather strange inference to make. Clearly its easier to get here from Nigeria than from China.
    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Claiming =/= abuse.
    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    A "bogus" claim would imply that the case put forward was fraudulent from the start, rather than the courts just rejecting it. Do you have a breakdown and statistics for that?
    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Isn't true that Asylum seekers aren't allowed work?

    Do you think that perhaps there just might be some anti-Nigerian prejudice out there....?


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    #263
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.
    I would say that it's a fairly ambiguous statement. I'd be surprised if that number of applications (from just the one country) were processed in 18 months, given the shortcomings of the asylum system that everyone's complaining about.
    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.
    Well, that's pretty much my point. Now, if you were living the (relative) high-life in a particular country, would you be terribly inclined to head off to another country a few thousand miles away to live on welfare? I know I wouldn't, especially if it was the Irish welfare system I was to be dependent on.
    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.
    I'm sorry, but that's a ridiculously general statement and may well be the author's misinterpretation of the facts. I will repeat once more that a failed asylum application does not a liar make. I was unsuccessful in obtaining a grant when I attended University; does my application for one make me a liar?
    Irlbo wrote: »
    No you missed my point entirely,I said its not because their Nigerian,its a vast amount of people that happen to be Nigerians that are doing this,Im sure you'll throw the 'our own do it too'' and so on and any excuse to eclipse the argument back to our own,but the original point remains,alot of Nigerians are using and abusing this system and havent even the manners to say thanks
    Oh, I think I know what your point is - you've made it quite clear. You assume that Ms. Izevbekhai is a liar and a fraud because she is Nigerian as, according to you, most Nigerians are lazy, rude and ungrateful scammers. Have I got it right?
    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.
    Iran has a population about 7 times that of Somalia, yet there are approximately 80% more Somali refugees in Ireland than there are Iranian. What gives?
    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.
    No, just your claim that Nigerian refugees in this country are living the high life at the taxpayers' expense.
    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.
    How about a source first of all?
    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.
    I've just had a look on www.irishrefugeecouncil.ie and I can't find that statement anywhere?


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    #264
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.
    Sorry, how does claiming rental allowance constitute "welfare abuse"? I also notice that you don’t draw attention to the fact that there also 3,000 British claimants.


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    #265
    Irlbo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 347 ✭✭Irlbo


    Can any of the pro-immigrant,liberals etc,answer me this,if you were a hard working person with a decent job,who was trying to look after his family,and could only afford a inadequate 2 bed apartment,not even a house,an cant afford a car or any luxaries,born and bred here,but then they see foreigners,Nigerians and what have you,living in 3 bed houses and driving new cars,while not working nearly as hard,and not living here not even a year,and dont being up some rebuttle or some lame argument,would you be p*ssed off,yes or no,be honest


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    #266
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Irlbo wrote: »
    Can any of the pro-immigrant,liberals etc,answer me this,if you were a hard working person with a decent job,who was trying to look after his family,and could only afford a inadequate 2 bed apartment,not even a house,an cant afford a car or any luxaries,born and bred here,

    ...which description couldn't possibly cover any one who is a "liberal".....


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    #267
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Irlbo wrote: »
    Can any of the pro-immigrant,liberals etc,answer me this,if you were a hard working person with a decent job,who was trying to look after his family,and could only afford a inadequate 2 bed apartment,not even a house,an cant afford a car or any luxaries,born and bred here...
    I live in a 2-bed flat. I don't own a car. I was "born and bred" in Dublin.

    Carry on.


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    #268
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #269
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #270
    lego
    Registered Users Posts: 124 ✭✭lego


    djpbarry wrote: »
    [*]We have an abnormally low acceptance rate for asylum applications - do you not think it might be an idea to investigate why this is?
    [/LIST]

    It is impossible to travel directly from Nigeria to Ireland. In order to get from Nigeria to Ireland a potential asylum seeker must first travel through at least one safe country they could have claimed asylum in. This is not the behaviour of someone who is in fear for their lives, this is the behaviour of an economic migrant shopping for a soft touch country. Most failed asylum seekers in Ireland are not deported. Thousands of asylum seekers make applications every year and only about 140 people are deported every year. Where do they go? Quite a number are denied refugee status but given permission to remain anyway by the DOJ.

    A Nigerian would need to be very wealthy relative to the average income in his/her country in order to have the necessary funds to travel to Ireland. Most of these scammers are greedy upper middle class Nigerians who have alot already but still want more.


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    #271
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    You don't seem to have answered the following -

    A "bogus" claim would imply that the case put forward was fraudulent from the start, rather than the courts just rejecting it as being insufficient grounds. Do you have a breakdown and statistics for that, showing where claims have been shown to be entirely works of fiction, rather than claims found not to have met the strict legal criteria?

    Isn't true that Asylum seekers aren't allowed work?

    Do you think that perhaps there just might be some anti-Nigerian prejudice out there....?


This discussion has been closed.
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