Pamela Izevbekhai - Should She Be Deported?

AlekSmart

As long as you have a heart, that's the main thing.

Female life expectancy is a whopping 47 years old.

Irish people spend more on their pets than the average Nigerian earns.

41

A good point by O Coonasa which can be a double edged sword when applied to Ms Izevbekhai.

Her story has always been based upon her outlining her above average social status in Nigeria with all the attendant trappings which that brought with it.

We are currently told that her husband has retained Legal Advisors in Nigeria to assist in further progressing their increasingly dubious case.

I would be interested to compare the Izevbekhai`s new Nigerian Legal "spend" with the average Nigerian income,a process which may be of somewhat more benefit than using Irish "Domestic Pet" spending.

The inference that the Izevbekhai girls are to be thrown from a moving aircraft onto the tarmac at Lagos Airport is equally grandiose and IMO unsustainable.

The Nigerian Government,at its most senior levels,has already given PUBLIC guarantees of safety to Ms Izevbekhai and her family.
These guarantees,in addition to the offer of further investigation of Ms Izevbekhai`s claims,having been made through the highest consular channels,cannot therefore be simply brushed aside by the LTS and RAR Campaigners.

If the Izevbekhai supporters,Irish as well as Nigerian are TRULY concerned for her and her daughters safety then it is incumbent upon them to make representations to be allowed to travel with the family and,if necessary report back to a troubled,conscience ridden Irish populace.

Indeed a spell of closer interaction with the traditions of a foreign country and the living arrangements of that countrys own people may well do the likes of Ms Flynn`s judgement a power of good in addition to expanding the knowledge of other races as to the human rights situation in Ireland.

As for O Coonoas`s point on Life Expectancy,it is doubtless true and serves to indicate the sizeable differences between continents and even differing regions of the same country.
I seem to recall that the most recent figures for Life Expectancy and Infant Mortality amongst the indigenous Irish Traveller culture may not be wildly different to that quoted.

The Izevbekhai case is long past the situation where "having a heart" is of any import to the proceedings.
At this stage Ms Izevbekhai and her Legal Team have exhausted all the heartfelt emotions and have not managed to justify even a fraction of such emotion being shown.

It is down to facts and those thus far reluctantly revealed have told a story of deciet,subterfuge and malicious intent which would now appear to be of a highly premeditated nature.

I certainly hope this Republic stands by it`s own Laws and their underlying principles and further expands that by standing by the Izevbekhai family as it returns to Nigeria also in terms of monitoring their progress back home......I`ll wager that observation process may well surprise quite a few if it occurs !

O'Coonassa

rkeane wrote: »

Silly arguements like that are not going to give Pamela Izevbekhai any credibility, they smack of desperation tactics often tried by her very reduced pool of supporters. I'm sorry for the kids but the family must be and will be deported. I repeat ...hard cases make bad law. The deportation order is signed and ready, the minister has already turned down her leave to remain application.

That's not an argument, it's just plain simple fact. European laws always suit themselves, I wonder if any of our ministers will be signing orders to stop their business partners in Royal Dutch Shell from causing so much grief in Nigeria. Somehow I doubt it.

O'Coonassa

AlekSmart wrote: »

The Nigerian Government,at its most senior levels,has already given PUBLIC guarantees of safety to Ms Izevbekhai and her family.

lol Africa is Africa, they can guarantee nothing tbh

Just look at the levels of dagerous infectious disease in that part of the world, what are they going to do? keep them in oxygen tents?

O'Coonassa

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Get your EU government to stop shafting them on your behalf.

AlekSmart

Just look at the levels of dagerous infectious disease in that part of the world, what are they going to do? keep them in oxygen tents?

I`m not certain as to how this impacts upon the topic of this thread as it veers off into an issue of perhaps greater significance in terms of Overall immigrant and asylum policy.

If,as O Coonasa appears to imply,we make overall health levels a factor in deciding an Asylum/Immigration claim then we may be heading for a ZERO entrance factor,with NO movement between such exotic places as Scotland,Canada,America and of course...Mexico.

lol Africa is Africa, they can guarantee nothing tbh

I`m uncertain as to what attitude of mind this quote displays to any "Ordinary" Africans who may be watching or contributing to this thread,but it appears to be a return to the ethos of the "Black Babies" collection box and the condescending attitudes which went along with it.

We have moved on as has Africa,a fact which is self evident from the manner in which Ms Izevbekhai has conducted this adventure.

rkeane

O'Coonassa wrote: »

That's not an argument, it's just plain simple fact. European laws always suit themselves, I wonder if any of our ministers will be signing orders to stop their business partners in Royal Dutch Shell from causing so much grief in Nigeria. Somehow I doubt it.

Oh here we go, the rediculous shell 2 sea type arguement. The fraudulent case of Pamela Izevbekhai has got nothing to do with the Ogoni tribe in Nigeria.....would you mind staying on topic?

O'Coonassa

rkeane wrote: »

Oh here we go, the rediculous shell 2 sea type arguement. The fraudulent case of Pamela Izevbekhai has got nothing to do with the Ogoni tribe in Nigeria.....would you mind staying on topic?

The morality of Europeans in the eyes of the world, and more particularly in the eyes of Africans, has everything to do with the 'case'. It's no shock though that a European would rule such thinking as inadmissible. Ireland through it's membership of the British Empire and more lately through the EU has done very nicely out of shafting Africans. Are you really so naive to think that people are unaware of the fact? That they would not look for 'payback'?

The question of the topic is should she be deported? It can be answered with reference to herself and her children being Africans without resorting to any legal mumbo jumbo or European distaste for FGM.

O'Coonassa

AlekSmart wrote: »

I`m uncertain as to what attitude of mind this quote displays to any "Ordinary" Africans who may be watching or contributing to this thread,but it appears to be a return to the ethos of the "Black Babies" collection box and the condescending attitudes which went along with it.

lol it's a common saying in Africa. Things don't work there like they do elsewhere, everybody knows it. Pretending otherwise is what harks back to the attitudes you mention.

jmcc

It has been fascinating watching how rapidly this story dropped out of the news cycle once the forgeries issue emerged. The media coverage has varied from the utterly amateurish (Boucher-Hayes et al) to the highly professional (Sunday Times). It could yet end up being a career killer if there is a Garda investigation once the SC case ends. The fall off in support on this thread has also been illuminating. Initially there were the fanatical, ideologically driven people who had latched on to this case to drive their own agendas along with genuine supporters. The disclosures of the fraudulent nature of the case and its foundations caused most of the genuine supporters to reconsider their positions. However the ideologically driven fanatics continued and tried to divert the attention from the forgeries by what can reasonably be described as shock tactics. Many of them have fallen away in recent weeks as this case has proven to be downright toxic to their causes. The shift to facts based reporting of the case has been very interesting in that it seems to indicate a changing of attitudes in the media to amateur "journalism".

Regards...jmcc

rkeane

I would love to see an investigation into the Boucher-Hayes end of things, that would shed some light on how he managed to talk to a certain "doctor". It's true to say that most of Pamela Izevbekhai's supporters have abandoned her to the inevitable deportation, it's no surprise when you see that her case was based on fraudulent documents.

Many of her supporters were genuine folk who thought that Pamela Izevbekhai was telling them the truth, they were truly duped. Her case has virtually dropped from the media, it's also telling to note that her "let them stay" group has not made a public comment since March 30th.... I think they know that their game is coming to an end.

AlekSmart

lol it's a common saying in Africa. Things don't work there like they do elsewhere, everybody knows it. Pretending otherwise is what harks back to the attitudes you mention.

That`s as may well be,but I still fail to see how it serves to impart some form of general absolution on Ms Izevbekhai for her,by now,thoroughly discredited attempt to dupe the Irish State,its systems and it`s people.

Maintaining that "everybody" knows such things can often be precarious as one constantly meets people (Ministers for Finance,Taoisigh etc) who do NOT know the things we attribute so confidently to them !!!

Mind you I also accept that the quote could just as easily be used in reference to Ireland itself...where many things "don`t work as they do elsewhere" as in Public Transport,Health,Property and Banking....and of course Asylum seeking....

Extending O Coonasa`s thinking even further I would thus have little problem with the notorious "undocumented" Irish being turfed out of countries such as the USA as we cannot truly expect to remain credible if we insist on saucing only the Black Goose whilst allowing the Green one to remain dry as a bone.

opo

blueythebear wrote: »

A losing solicitor will mainly lose money for the time spent on the case which would involve several appearances in the High Court and time spent reviewing the case and taking statements. It's difficult to put a figure on this but as far as I am aware the going rate where an applicant is successful is €20,000+ including barristers fees so it would stand that the same figure applies the other way round.

It would if the fees were guaranteed either way. I am guessing that the sucessfull claim has a significant premium attached. I am also guessing that there are significant costs (legal and other) diffused by the taxpayer, win or lose.

blueythebear wrote: »

The State has to pay for barristers (State's solicitors are in salaried positions and will be paid regardless) and the costs usually follow the event, i.e. the losing party will foot the bill for both sides. In these cases the State don't bother pursuing the costs. Why don't they? Probably because they won't be successful as these people don't have any money...Before anyone goes there, this does not mean that they are economic migrants. Groups who are persecuted are often the poorest groups in their particular country as they would be discriminated against in terms of employment anyway (as well as in other areas which would form the basis for their asylum claim).

The State may well pay for barristers and solicitors as required and may well employ them so as to manage costs. However, that does not deal with the numbers required to be employed to deal with the thousands of court cases associated with asylum.

I will go there (in relation to economic migrants) if you don't mind. Can you point to a case where an economically disadvantaged asylum seeker found it more sensible to claim asylum in Ireland that any other Country that supported the same provisions? and why?

blueythebear wrote: »

As for whether a solicitor has been hit with costs for a vexatious claim, I didn't realise you were awaiting an example...I wouldn't have that info not being a solicitor. It would hardly be front page news if it has happened anyway so it could be that we haven't heard about it. Then again it may not have happened at all. There's not really any point in arguing about something we don't know.

I would not expect it to make front page news however, I would expect the vested interests to whinge as the law society has done in relation to the 2008 bill. I would also expect the resources open to myself, yourself and anyone else with an interest to turn up something to contradict my opinion that no solicitor or barrister has ever been hit with the full costs of making a vexatious claim (as envisioned in the 2008 bill). In the absense, what I do know, is that the taxpayer has been hit, every time and I am pretty sure about that.

If you are going to present yoursef as something of a (albeit lay) authority on the subject, then do the research or at least ask the hard questions of those in the legal profession, who you appear to be quite happy to at least claim association with, and even insinuate fraternity with, when it suits you.

The Corinthian

O'Coonassa wrote: »

lol it's a common saying in Africa. Things don't work there like they do elsewhere, everybody knows it. Pretending otherwise is what harks back to the attitudes you mention.

Accepting that sub-Saharan Africa is a bit of a basket case is not difficult to do. However it is hardly the only region in the World like this, much of South and central America is comparable in terms of corruption, poverty or exploitation (real or perceived), as with the Middle East and Asia - try spending some time in Astana, if you don't believe me.

However, I do find it amusing that it is generally only Africa that gets this form of special treatment; a belief that they need to be, essentially, spoon-fed and protected to the point that they are considered helpless and unable to help themselves - a belief which is not extended to the rest of the developing World with the same determination.

All of which has long led me to believe that this attitude amounts to little more than a modern, politically correct incarnation of the White Man's Burden. Ironic, innit?

shindig-jp

O'Coonassa wrote: »

The question of the topic is should she be deported? It can be answered with reference to herself and her children being Africans without resorting to any legal mumbo jumbo or European distaste for FGM.

Yes She and her children should be deported

O'Coonassa

The Corinthian wrote: »

Accepting that sub-Saharan Africa is a bit of a basket case is not difficult to do. However it is hardly the only region in the World like this, much of South and central America is comparable in terms of corruption, poverty or exploitation (real or perceived), as with the Middle East and Asia - try spending some time in Astana, if you don't believe me.

However, I do find it amusing that it is generally only Africa that gets this form of special treatment; a belief that they need to be, essentially, spoon-fed and protected to the point that they are considered helpless and unable to help themselves - a belief which is not extended to the rest of the developing World with the same determination.

All of which has long led me to believe that this attitude amounts to little more than a modern, politically correct incarnation of the White Man's Burden. Ironic, innit?

Whatever about south america being corrupt and poverty stricken it just doesn't compare to Africa IMO.

Hunger Map.

Infant Mortality


That's just two maps but there's lots more stats where you can see the plain difference staring you in the face.

AlekSmart

That's just two maps but there's lots more stats where you can see the plain difference staring you in the face.

Neither the maps or the stats have much relevance to the thread title or indeed to the essence of what this thread has been about,however they do dovetail neatly into the theory held by some posters,that the LTS campaigners are off on a "Chaff Scattering" excercise.

O'Coonassa

AlekSmart wrote: »

Neither the maps or the stats have much relevance to the thread title or indeed to the essence of what this thread has been about,however they do dovetail neatly into the theory held by some posters,that the LTS campaigners are off on a "Chaff Scattering" excercise.

Well I've never been a LTS campaigner at all. Don't have a problem with FGM for one thing. I just think that humans should be able move around their planet in a free and easy manner. I also think Europeans have been shafting Africans for a long old time with no sign of a let up.

tallus

O'Coonassa wrote: »

Well I've never been a LTS campaigner at all. Don't have a problem with FGM for one thing. I just think that humans should be able move around their planet in a free and easy manner. I also think Europeans have been shafting Africans for a long old time with no sign of a let up.

Sounds like the Africans are shafting the Irish tax payer in this case.

The Corinthian

And here's some more coloured maps:

To begin with corruption (Africa not all that different to much of the rest of the World):


Poverty/Human development (Some of africa pretty low down admittedly, but most of it not exactly than much worse off than south-east Asia):


As I said, sub-Saharan Africa is a basket case, but frankly not to the extent that it should be treated so differently to other impoverished, corrupt nations as it is. I genuinely think its a kind of reverse, well-meaning, racism.

O'Coonassa

The Corinthian wrote: »

I genuinely think its a kind of reverse, well-meaning, racism.

Well me I hold that humans are just humans and I genuinely think Africa is worse off than anywhere else.

O'Coonassa

tallus wrote: »

Sounds like the Africans are shafting the Irish tax payer in this case.

Tbh I'd rather pay for Africans than banksters. Everybody up in arms about a couple of little girls and a mammy who tried to give them a better future but quite happy to take it up the ar*e from European oligarchs. Something seems wrong there IMO.

The Corinthian

O'Coonassa wrote: »

Well me I hold that humans are just humans and I genuinely think Africa is worse off than anywhere else.

But not so worse off as to engender all the extra support though, and there lies the flaw in your reasoning.

O'Coonassa

The Corinthian wrote: »

But not so worse off as to engender all the extra support though, and there lies the flaw in your reasoning.

All what extra support? You mean money handed over to corrupt leaders in exchange for lucrative contracts etc?

AlekSmart

All what extra support? You mean money handed over to corrupt leaders in exchange for lucrative contracts etc?

I would not venture as far up the corruption ladder as O Coonasa has.

Without needing a coloured map of the world I would contend that Ms Izevbekhai has already directly deprived scores of far more deserving AFRICAN asylum applicants of at least €500,000 worth of aid.

Everybody up in arms about a couple of little girls and a mammy who tried to give them a better future but quite happy to take it up the ar*e from European oligarchs. Something seems wrong there IMO.

Again,I suspect that reviewing this thread back to the beginning O Coonasa will not find many jumping for glee at the antics of European ogliarchs (Except perhaps, the occasional UK Football Club owner).

I prefer to lower the "Mammy and wee Girls" tone a bit too, as it rather pointedly fails to address the existance of a "Daddy",especially as "Mammy" has been at pains to point out Tony Izevbekhai`s love for this "Family" etc etc.....at least the "Family" whose makeup we in Ireland have been asked to accept without question.

The entire spectacle now has me questioning whether the Izevbekhai "Family" actually exists at all,other than in this womans thus far,frivolous case.

Nobody is denying the extent of poverty and iniquity in Africa,but I as an individual do not feel any more responsibility for it than I do for the squalor and apparent poverty I see in and around my local halting sites.

Once more I note the almost total absence in our system of Africans from countries such as Zimbabwe where O Coonasa`s vivid maps of poverty and disease are probably on the optimistic side.

The World is not an easy place to quantify or even explain,but it`s definitely a far better place if those who wish to scam,lie and entreat their way around it`s laws are given short shrift when rumbled....irrespective of whatever continent they may hail from !

O'Coonassa

AlekSmart wrote: »

Nobody is denying the extent of poverty and iniquity in Africa,but I as an individual do not feel any more responsibility for it than I do for the squalor and apparent poverty I see in and around my local halting sites.

AlekSmart comparing halting sites to sub-saharan Africa shows just how unattached from reality some people are in their Western bubble.

And whatever individual Europeans like to think, they vote for geo-political vampires who suck the life blood of the planets poorest and weakest. People like AlekSmart may try to convince themselves they aren't responsible but culpability sits on their heads like a hat.

When Europeans open up the trade barriers they've erected and stop skewing markets with subsidies, when they legislate against companies based on their turf adding to and causing the corruption in the poor south. When they stop trying to impose centrally planned economies on poor people and prising open their markets in return for 'aid' then perhaps they'll be off the hook. Until then they're guilty of something far worse than this Nigerian mother. Europeans are superscammers by virtue of their governments.

AlekSmart

And whatever individual Europeans like to think, they vote for geo-political vampires who suck the life blood of the planets poorest and weakest. People like AlekSmart may try to convince themselves they aren't responsible but culpability sits on their heads like a hat.

When Europeans open up the trade barriers they've erected and stop skewing markets with subsidies, when they legislate against companies based on their turf adding to and causing the corruption in the poor south. When they stop trying to impose centrally planned economies on poor people and prising open their markets in return for 'aid' then perhaps they'll be off the hook. Until then they're guilty of something far worse than this Nigerian mother. Europeans are superscammers by virtue of their governments.

I occassionally wearnicehats,by that I mean ones I like,.....I`m not overly concerned whether anybody else likes them cos I`m comfortable with them so there I go

As for voting for Vampires,yes I`ve voted for many`s the Queer Count over the years but I remain a highly committed Floating Voter and am likely to fill my Polling Card with a full range of preferences... even for Africans should they catch my eye (WHITE one`s as well as Black)

I`m asuming that O Coonasa`s regard for White African`s such as the South African or Zinbabewean Farmers is of a similiar level to that espoused for Europeans in general...after all that Social Group managed for decades to allow those countries to become virtually self-sufficient in terms of supporting the food needs of their respective countries and a great many neighbouring one`s too.

However,the "progressive liberterian" policies of their new ruling elite (Oddly enough a BLACK elite) has succeeded by violence in reducing that once shining example of self-sufficiency to that of a Famine Blighted wilderness.

The "Centrally Planned" economic plans of Mr Mugabe and his Government has proven to be a far more efficient destroyer of human life and liberty than any of us dreadful European Superscammers as O Coonasa describes us.

Pamela Izevbekhai and her dubious case has,and continues to,draw the focus of our Aid Policy away from those real causes of Iniquity.
By blatently abusing the Irish State`s modest ability to help GENUINE cases of African peoples oppression and fear,Ms Izevbekhai has set the case of GENUINE African hardship back by decades.

If living in a European Democracy constitutes a "Bubble",then I`m guilty as charged M`Lud,however I`m also quite content to accept my position and to view the passing Global situations from exactly that location.
The continuing insinuation that Pamela Izevbekhai and her Daughters are facing dreadful consequences upon their return to Nigeria simply does not weigh on my mind.

I will go with what has been written and spoken by the IRISH based Consular Representatives of NIgeria in relation to the situation facing Pamela and Her Daughters.

Thats MY contribution to allowing a Democratic African Republic to manage it`s own affairs without attemoting to IMPOSE a set of opprerssive foreign European views upon them.

Zambia

It saddens me to check back and discover this lying woman has not been deported yet.

You may as well all stop fighting this and let her them stay as no-one in Ireland knows how to get her out.

rkeane

Zambia232 wrote: »

It saddens me to check back and discover this lying woman has not been deported yet.

You may as well all stop fighting this and let her them stay as no-one in Ireland knows how to get her out.

Don't worry about it, she has no chance of winning this "case". It tells you something when she is finding it so hard to get legal representation. All will become clearer in the next 2 weeks, I also want this woman out of here.

rkeane

It seems that Ms Izevbekhai has now found new legal representation - Brophy Solicitors. Yes the very same solicitors that represented Great Agbonlahor....they were trying to get leave to remain on the based that the kid had a mild form of autism. I look forward to another defeat for Mr Brophy.

The Raven.

rkeane wrote: »

It seems that Ms Izevbekhai has now found new legal representation - Brophy Solicitors. Yes the very same solicitors that represented Great Agbonlahor....they were trying to get leave to remain on the based that the kid had a mild form of autism. I look forward to another defeat for Mr Brophy.

It was mentioned on Aertel. Nothing yet in the newspapers on line. RTE had the following:

The Supreme Court has heard that Pamela Izevbekhai has found new legal representation.

Brophy Solicitors will now represent the Nigerian mother and the court was told that they will be putting together a legal team in the coming days.

Lawyers for Ms lzevbekhai applied to the court last month to cease acting for her after she admitted bogus documents had been used in her case.

Her former lawyers this morning asked to be struck off from the case now that new legal representation had been found.

The case is up for mention on 28 May.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0515/izevbekhaip.html

I wonder who will pay the new solicitors. I can't imagine her succeeding at this stage.