Pamela Izevbekhai - Should She Be Deported?

opo

Souljacker wrote: »

With regards to this case there are a hell of a lot of things that have been claimed and counter claimed in this legal case, and as some have alluded to (re the father) there is still so much we don't know. If she was so wealthy why did she flee in the first place?

Who said she "fled" anywhere? She paid for her flights - none of which were directly to Ireland or arrived in a manner that anyone can substantiate - least of all herself.

Souljacker wrote: »

I apologies for repeating myself but my unease comes from the fact that these two girls who have spent most of their life in Ireland are now going to be and we are sending them away to the unknown. That is a fact.

It's a fact that my own childern face the unknown every day of their young lives. Nothing I can do about that. That's life. They seem to enjoy it believe it or not. I think your fear of the "unknown" (in context) is more a statement about you and your unfortunate general prejudice against native Nigerians than anything else.

Souljacker wrote: »

Regardless of what this woman’s situation was like before she came to this country there is no certainty as to how she will support herself when she arrives in Lagos. She's an adult and she made the choice to relocate to Ireland for whatever reason and now she has to pay the price fine, but her children made no such choice.

That tends to go with the territory when you are a child. Perhaps the childern would like to see their father and family. Is that too far fetched?

Souljacker wrote: »

Again I make no apology for feeling the way I do, I'm not suggesting we have the resources to solve the problem on a grand scale but we do have the opportunity to inject stability into these 2 children's lives regardless of what crimes her mother has or has not committed. Whatever way you swing it for me it feels like this state is sending way children who have grown up in this country.

Really, let's be real here, as childern they are being used/abused as emotional pawns by their parents. And BTW, they are still childern. Let's not add to the deceit by pretending they are otherwise.

Zambia

Hi

Our schooling
As a product of some years African school its not as if they will attend "bone through nose" classes or something. It should be pionted out they are being sent back to Nigeria to work in sweatshops.

Comment on this annoyed me greatly

Irish in America
Every country has a migration process that should be respected, in the last 10 - 15 years there was no real cause to "flee" Ireland and live in America is was done by people who had no respect for the US migration laws. They should not be lobbying Irish politicans to assist them to live in America and irish politicans should be working for the irish in Ireland (f**k knows they have enough work to do here)

O'Coonassa

johnathan woss wrote: »

What gives YOU the right to take MY money (taxes) and give it to bogus asylum seekers ?

lol I didn't realise I'd scuttled off under a rock. Let me ask you what gives you the right to make more of a fuss about this minor issue than all the many other more expensive issues?

Issues where MY money has been taken and given to utter reprobates such as banksters, developers and politicians. Your silence and the silence of people like you has been deafening, no 190 page threads on these matters.

Where were your outraged posts when we were being fvcked up the arse by these people for massively greater sums of moola? What is it that accounts for your difference in attitude do you think?

turgon

O'Coonassa's attitude appears to be that Pamela Izevbekhai can waste all the amount of Irish taxpayers money she wants - because the Developers and Banks have wasted more.

O'Coonassa

turgon wrote: »

O'Coonassa's attitude appears to be that Pamela Izevbekhai can waste all the amount of Irish taxpayers money she wants - because the Developers and Banks have wasted more.

No my point is why the feck did we waste millions trying to deport a woman who could've been working all this time for the good of this country?

Why this situation at all?

And why all the vitriol directed against her and her kids when there's a total lack of the same for people who have quite deliberately ripped us off for more with absolutely no excuse? What is driving the clear and huge imbalance in attitudes here? That's my point.

turgon

I understand your point, however I would not be one to make such a generalisation that people giving out about the money spent here dont care about money wasted.

But to be fair, if we are not going to punish Pamela for breaking the law, whats stopping all of Africa from hopping on a plane and coming to good 'aul Ireland? And whats to stop other people claiming that if an illegal immigrant is immune to the law, then a full citizen of Ireland should be also?

johnathan woss

O'Coonassa wrote: »

lol I didn't realise I'd scuttled off under a rock. Let me ask you what gives you the right to make more of a fuss about this minor issue than all the many other more expensive issues?

Issues where MY money has been taken and given to utter reprobates such as banksters, developers and politicians. Your silence and the silence of people like you has been deafening, no 190 page threads on these matters.

Where were your outraged posts when we were being fvcked up the arse by these people for massively greater sums of moola? What is it that accounts for your difference in attitude do you think?

Well that's a blatant dodge if ever I saw one.
You'd have had more credibility if you'd just continued to refuse to respond to me !
I hope it's nice and cosy under that rock.

johnathan woss

Souljacker wrote: »

1. Yes as a humanist I am saying it's our collective responsibility to make sure that every man woman and child has the basic human right to shelter, food and life. Why do you not think this is something worth striving for?

2. I'm not claiming the moral high ground as I've included myself in the section of people who exploit those to live the life most of us do in this country.

3. I'm voicing my opinion not doing anything to you tax money.

1. If the populations of these countries become even more unsustainable when we provide them with the basic needs then we are simply pushing the problem down the road and the day of reckoning, when it comes, will be even worse.
OF COURSE those with should strive to help those without, but these countries need to get their populations to, and keep them at, sustainable levels.

2. Okay but it is VERY easy to come on the internet and wax lyrical about this stuff.
It is an entirely different proposition to sacrifice your own time and money.
I just can't stand hypocrites.

3. You are voicing your opinion that my tax should continue to be spent on this woman and her children. I don't think there's any confusion here ?

O'Coonassa

turgon wrote: »

I understand your point, however I would not be one to make such a generalisation that people giving out about the money spent here dont care about money wasted.

Well I'm only judging by appearances and what I hear around me. I don't think people don't care at all about the banksters and developers but rather that they generally care about this issue far far more. This strikes me as odd not just because of the huge difference in the sums of money involved but also given the fact that nearly everbody in this country has friends or family who've hopped borders and worked black elsewhere. Incidentally I've even done this in African countries before now, so I'd feel like a total hypocrite if I took any other position than the one I'm taking.

turgon wrote: »

But to be fair, if we are not going to punish Pamela for breaking the law, whats stopping all of Africa from hopping on a plane and coming to good 'aul Ireland?

The same things that stopped all Ireland hopping on a boat for America or England really. People don't have the cash spare and most really don't have the inclination to leave their friends and families and the places where they were born and grew up. Those that do generally yearn to return.

turgon wrote: »

And whats to stop other people claiming that if an illegal immigrant is immune to the law, then a full citizen of Ireland should be also?

Well I'm saying that the law is an ass in this instance and not that people should be immune from all and every law. Irish political leaders are bringing whatever pressure they can to bear in the US for them to legalise around 50,000 of us. Here they're doing all they can to get rid of 3 Africans who are 'guilty' of the same crime. How ugly does that make us look?

O'Coonassa

johnathan woss wrote: »

Well that's a blatant dodge if ever I saw one.
You'd have had more credibility if you'd just continued to refuse to respond to me !
I hope it's nice and cosy under that rock.

But I didn't even see your post, and now that I've seen it and responded to you you're accusing me of dodging the question but I'm clearly saying that you're blowing a minor issue out of all proportion and when I asked why this is you refuse to answer.

johnathan woss

This thread is about Pamela Izevbekhai's bogus plea for asylum and the discussion has at times evolved into one about illegal immigration in general.

It is NOT about bankers, developers, or whatever other target you would like to use to divert attention away from your hypocrisy.

It is the easiest thing in the world to be generous with other people's money.
As it is easy to tell people how they should live and who they should share their country with.

Isn't it funny that people like who who preach about "no borders" and "one world love" are often the most INTOLERANT and close-minded people going?

AlekSmart

And why all the vitriol directed against her and her kids when there's a total lack of the same for people who have quite deliberately ripped us off for more with absolutely no excuse? What is driving the clear and huge imbalance in attitudes here? That's my point.

I`m uncertain what exactly O`Coonasa`s point is here.

There are only a few Vitriolic posters on this thread and most are quite rightly passed over for responses.

There is absolutely NO lack of passion,vitriol or general disgust for those FEW well connected Developers and assorted Politically connected animals whose rapacious activities have Raped us all in this country.

I do not see any imbalance here as the threads on the recession and its Causes/Effects are elsewhere.

It could even be argued that the Irish State is being even more far-sighted in attempting to discourage the Izevbekhai "family" from relocating here as there is little real hope of them securing a future of any real certitude...In fact Nigeria,at the Izevbekhai Familys social level may well be a BETTER bet to return to than this place right now.

Well I'm saying that the law is an ass in this instance and not that people should be immune from all and every law. Irish political leaders are bringing whatever pressure they can to bear in the US for them to legalise around 50,000 of us. Here they're doing all they can to get rid of 3 Africans who are 'guilty' of the same crime. How ugly does that make us look?

And I as a Citizen of THIS State take serious exception to any Irish Politician attempting to subvert the USA`s Immigration and Naturalization process.
If there are Irish nationals who are attempting to do an "Izevbekhai" on the U.S. immigration/asylum system then they should be treated exactly as U.S.Law dictates.

There...No ambiguity or confusion as to MY attitude there ..OK ??

O'Coonassa

johnathan woss wrote: »

This thread is about Pamela Izevbekhai's bogus plea for asylum and the discussion has at times evolved into one about illegal immigration in general.

It is NOT about bankers, developers, or whatever other target you would like to use to divert attention away from your hypocrisy.

It is the easiest thing in the world to be generous with other people's money.
As it is easy to tell people how they should live and who they should share their country with.

Isn't it funny that people like who who preach about "no borders" and "one world love" are often the most INTOLERANT and close-minded people going?

lol but you're the one getting your knicks in a twist over how my money should be spent on needless prosecutions and dictating who I can or can't share this landmass with. The hypocrisy lies entirely with people who've contributed multiple time to this thread but who for instance didn't once feel the inclination to sound off about bankers and developers Mr Woss. Those types are the ones who appear intolerant and close-minded IMO

PapaQuebec

@ O'Coonassa
And I suppose you've cross-referenced all the posts on the many threads on the issue of robber-bankers against the usernames of all who have posted here?

HollyB

O'Coonassa wrote: »

lol but you're the one getting your knicks in a twist over how my money should be spent on needless prosecutions and dictating who I can or can't share this landmass with.

For those who feel that their taxes should not be spent on prosecutions they deem to be needless and who feel that anybody who wishes to come to live in Ireland should be free to do so, they should exercise their right to vote for politcal candidates who share their feelings, and who will make the changes they want to see. If those who wish to see Ireland's borders flung open to whoever might want to come to the country are a majority among the Irish voters, so be it. I can respect that. However, if the reverse is true and the majority of Irish voters prefer to have immigration into Ireland controlled, I expect those who support open borders to respect that.

The Raven.

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Fair enough. We only have her word for it, and all these ‘claims’ could be a pack of lies. My post was in response to Souljacker, who stated the following:

Souljacker wrote: »

So as long as we as a state do not have to bear the responsibility for uprooting 2 children who we've educated and gave a home to it's ok to send them on their way with nothing to go to and never to return?

That doesn't sit well with me, but I can only speak for myself.

My point is that here we have two conflicting scenarios. On the one hand we have Ms. Izevbekhai claiming that she was well off in Nigeria before she came to Ireland, and on the other we have Souljacker suggesting that ‘we as a state’ would be sending them ‘on their way with nothing to go to’. This argument is indefensible whether she is lying or not.

paddyboy23

this women has lied non stop and has to be sent home or else we might as open the doors to every person who wants to spin a yarn,i hear stories that she had a great job before she left tough go home and get it back they come here first thing they do is join a church group thats there base for when there asked to leave you have the whole group out with there banners but this lady she was special she was giving a civic reception she must of been laughing her head off at us this women has to be sent back to where she came from and if you have any money left after what shes cost us send that silly mare of a mayor who rolled out the red carpet for her back with her.

Souljacker

The Raven. wrote: »

My point is that here we have two conflicting scenarios. On the one hand we have Ms. Izevbekhai claiming that she was well off in Nigeria before she came to Ireland, and on the other we have Souljacker suggesting that ‘we as a state’ would be sending them ‘on their way with nothing to go to’. This argument is indefensible whether she is lying or not.

You're completely right to pick me up on this point. It was completely the wrong choice of words to use and as such I was rightly berated for it. In the future I won't post at 2am in the middle of the night.

Last night I magnificently failed to articulate my 2 parted point so let me try again to voice my reasoning in a way that (hopefully) won't attract such a hostile response.

With regards to this case, as so many people have pointed out Pamala Ivenbekhai, told lies and in the process cost this country a hell of a lot of money. I do not for a second deny this point in any way shape or form.

Pamala Ivenbekhai has two children, who's future, like it or not are in the hands or this countries judicial system. They imo have done nothing to deserve the trauma of a deportation. And regardless of what some might say about the Izevbekhai's (mother and daughters) living in the lap of luxury there are still so many unanswered questions.

To quote a paragraph from an article in the tribune April 2009:

A lot of questions remain unanswered about the curious case of Pamela Izevbekhai. No one has yet been able to track down her husband's parents and discover whether it would still be traditional for the family to carry out genital mutilation. The Nigerian government told a UN committee last year that the prevalence rate of FGM in the country was 32%, and that in some regions the figure was as high as 65%. These facts cannot be ignored.

http://www.tribune.ie/article/2009/apr/05/the-curious-case-of-pamela-izevbekhai/



Whatever way we look at it, whatever has happened in the past we as the state of Ireland have the fate of these 2 girls in our hand and no one on this thread can tell me what will become of these 2 girls or why Ms Izevbekhai left her alleged extremely comfortable life in Nigeria to come and live in Ireland.

That’s the reason I feel uneasy here. I’m not suggesting we have the capacity to solve abject world inequality on this small island, but as it stand the 2 girls are here now. They’ve been put through a huge ordeal in the past months by (mostly) their mother, but also some of the Irish media vis a vis the people they sell their papers to.And even though they’re not legally Irish they now regard Ireland as their home.

The reality is we have no notion what will happen these to girls when they get to Nigeria because we still have no notion why this woman lied and left an alleged comfortable life in Nigeria. I am at a loss to understand why someone would do that which is why I have conserns that there may be some truth in Ms Izevbekhai's fears despite the lies on such a grand scale.

Ok and to the people who accused me of Racism and of being 'intolerant' I direct them to the figures above (FGM). I'm sorry if I'm not pc enough for you but I think fgm on such a scale I think is something to be deservedly concerned about.

____________________

The 2nd point I was making was a more general one about global inequalities and the basic things we take for granted.

People will immigrate to Ireland regardless of the outcome of this state. That's just a straight forward fact. People will follow resources.

turgon

O'Coonassa wrote: »

Well I'm saying that the law is an ass in this instance and not that people should be immune from all and every law.

Well supposing I think that the "law" against murder is an "ass"? Can I then freely murder?

Who gets to decide which laws are an ass and which arent?

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

AlekSmart

Whatever way we look at it, whatever has happened in the past we as the state of Ireland have the fate of these 2 girls in our hand and no one on this thread can tell me what will become of these 2 girls or why Ms Izevbekhai left her alleged extremely comfortable life in Nigeria to come and live in Ireland.

I do not accept this line of reasoning at all.

Ireland and it`s people do not have the fate of the Izevbekhai girls in their hands at all.
That fate is primarily in the hands of their PARENTS (Plural) and secondarily within the responsibility of the Nigerian Goverment,which has already Guaranteed Ms Izevbekhai`s safety upon her return.
In addition the Nigerian Government has offered to investigate Ms Izevbekhai`s allegations regarding her fears of "Forcible FGM" being performed on her children.
These Guarantees were given in full by the Nigerian Ambassador only to be immediately pooh-pooh`d by those who prefer to portray Nigeria and other African countries as "Bone-Thru-The-Nose" territory.

This is not a case of some unfortunate being shoved into a cattle wagon and transported to the salt mines.
This case not alone offers Ireland the opportunity to draw it`s line in the sand but also offers us a chance to act above our station in ensuring the Nigerian Authorities honour their publicly given committments,which I fully expect them to do.

O'Coonassa

turgon wrote: »

Well supposing I think that the "law" against murder is an "ass"? Can I then freely murder?

Who gets to decide which laws are an ass and which arent?

Clearly The Law about murder is an ancient Law held by our Ancestors because of the very clear need for it. Life is Sacred. That's The Law.

Clearly the other law that surrounds the imaginary makey uppy borders is just made up nonsense aimed at keeping the poor down South and stopping all of us from freely wandering our Earth. It cuts against The Law.

What gets to decide this is called Humanity

opo

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

An entirely fair point.

We could empty our prisons using the very same logic applied here to a manipulative fraud.

Oh! that would also mean foregiving bankers and developers for their wrongdoings - provided they had childern.

Do I have the point now?

opo

O'Coonassa wrote: »

Clearly The Law about murder is an ancient Law held by our Ancestors because of the very clear need for it. Life is Sacred. That's The Law.

Clearly the other law that surrounds the imaginary makey uppy borders is just made up nonsense aimed at keeping the poor down South and stopping all of us from freely wandering our Earth. It cuts against The Law.

What gets to decide this is called Humanity

The law protects my family in a kind of makey uppy way too. Have you a problem with that?

O'Coonassa

AlekSmart wrote: »

I do not accept this line of reasoning at all.

You are a European, historically you don't do reasonable.

AlekSmart wrote: »

Ireland and it`s people do not have the fate of the Izevbekhai girls in their hands at all.

What utter nonsense. Such obvious nonsense. How does a Man come to tell himself such a lie that he will repeat it to the world barefaced? What kind of a one is such a one?

O'Coonassa

opo wrote: »

The law protects my family in a kind of makey uppy way too.

Howd'ya mean exactly?

opo wrote: »

Have you a problem with that?

Depends what you mean.

opo

The law enacts my home as free from invasion and protects my childern. The law applies much the same provisions to my country and therefore to my childern.

It may seem "makey uppy" to a child, but I would expect an adult to have some fundamental grasp of what is actually behind these less than stark (and universally applicable) realities.

O'Coonassa

opo wrote: »

The law enacts my home as free from invasion and protects my chidern. The law applies much the same provisions to my country and therefore to my childern.

It may seem "makey uppy" to a child, but I would expect an adult to have some fundamental grasp of what is actually behind these less than stark (and universally applicable) realities.

The Law you're talking about isn't at all makey-uppy though. A Human, even a child, understands it's home is to be free from invasion and that we are not to be harmed. That doesn't seem at all makey uppy to a child I'm sure, it is intrinsic, The Law.

opo

O'Coonassa wrote: »

The Law you're talking about isn't at all makey-uppy though. A Human, even a child, understands it's home is to be free from invasion and that we are not to be harmed. That doesn't seem at all makey uppy to a child I'm sure, it is intrinsic, The Law.

So if Izevbekhai or other frauds without just cause, wish to baselessly invade my home and/or country, I am duty bound to my myself and my childern to resist. Agreed?

AlekSmart

So if Izevbekhai or other frauds without just cause, wish to baselessly invade my home and/or country, I am duty bound to my myself and my childern to resist. Agreed?

Hmmm....drawing from the rich vein of "interesting interpretive" posts I suspect your answer will read something like this.........

What utter nonsense. Such obvious nonsense. How does a Man come to tell himself such a lie that he will repeat it to the world barefaced? What kind of a one is such a one?

To which I would add.........