Coalition parties break cover

Mr.Micro

Here is the bottom line. Bertie Ahern is not corrupt. But the campaign against him is corrupt.

And Fianna Fail must face it down until hell freezes for the sake of Irish democracy.

Sen.Eoghan Harris.


Harris could not be a little bit biased here perhaps, since it was Bertie who appointed him a Senator .

Liam Byrne

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Harris could not be a little bit biased here perhaps, since it was Bertie who appointed him a Senator .

Normally this would be an unfair comment; just because someone appoints you doesn't mean that you necessarily have or voice a different opinion on them, does it ??

Of course since Bertie self-admittedly "appoints his friends", then that might imply that Harris is his friend and therefore would be biased.

Plus, if someone were to ignore the varying accounts of Bertie's accounts [3 conflicting explanations from the "horse's mouth" so far] and also ignore any [as yet unproven] links to the planning corruption, there are 2 related questions:

1) How come neither of the coalition parties cribbed - even the supposed "FF watchdog", the PDs - when the "I appointed my friends" statement was made ? Surely that is nepotism, which could be viewed as corruption, negating Harris' view ?

2) Could it be that Harris' stance is related to the fact that IF the above were made into an issue and viewed as corruption, his appointment might come into question ?

Mr.Micro

Liam Byrne, The appointment of Harris, a vocal supporter of Mr.A for a long time, was a contentious appointment. It is in the remit of the Taoiseach to appoint so many Senators, a practice that I think should be stopped. To my mind its often people who have been rejected by the voters still manage to get into power ie the Senate or individuals like Harris who in my opinion would not get a vote unless he gave himself one. I do not think that the opposition could do anything as FG Taoiseach would appoint who he/she wanted in the same way.

With regards to Harris being worried about his appointment and the taint of corruption..... no chance there IMO he believes in himself, thats for sure.

Liam Byrne

No arguments here, Mr Micro.....like I said, "normally" it would be an unfair comment, but if Harris is one of the "friends" in question, then it's unfortunately to be expected that he would defend his "appointer", so any bleating from him should then be taken with a grain of salt.

I mean, if there IS a "campaign" against someone, then fair enough - that's wrong. And while it does seem like there are some people who have an actual vendetta against Ahern, there isn't a campaign.

But Harris - in that statement at least - isn't saying that "a campaign would be wrong", he's saying "the campaign", as if it were a fact that there was one. Coming from a reporter/commentator, that's downright lazy and biased.

There's no concerted "campaign"; the rest of us just want consistent and truthful answers to the questions that have been raised. If Ahern had done this along the way (either last Dec or before the election or more recently) there would be no support or justification for Harris calling it a "campaign".

The fact that 2 party leaders have finally come out and said that a definitive statement is required once and for all (although one suspects it's just a soundbyte, as both neatly avoiding giving a timeline!!!) means that pretty much everyone [apart from the FF sheep, and even they are reported to be bleating privately] accepts that this issue is now way out of hand.

As a commentator, and if someone that he didn't support was changing stories that didn't match physical evidence and records, Harris would be on the case quickly, saying that he was only looking for the facts and he'd be the first to complain if someone called THAT a "campaign", because that's what journalists/commentators are supposed to do.

edanto

Does anyone know - have the coalition partners/opposition made any statements about the story on the front page of the Irish Times on Saturday:

The Irish Times wrote:

"THE TOTAL value of lodgements and other transactions that have to date been queried by the Mahon tribunal in its public inquiries into the finances of the Taoiseach, Bertie Ahern, exceeds £452,800"

edanto

Liam Byrne wrote: »

but if Harris is one of the "friends" in question, then it's unfortunately to be expected that he would defend his "appointer", so any bleating from him should then be taken with a grain of salt.

A case in point as to how the motivation and details of someone's background can be crucial in establishing their bias, and hence bracketing it.

When there are competing claims to certainty - the only way to unravel them is to look at the motivation of the different people making the claims.

I would say that at this stage there is a campaign against Bertie. Now, what is the nature of it - well I would say that it is a group of people frustrated by the changing stories, mystery money and deals with builders and business men that look eminently shady.

As far as I can see, this campaign is not organised by any one group or committee, and not motivated by hate or reasonless dislike of Bertie himself - and why in the world would a campaign be a bad thing? After all there was a pretty slick pro-Bertie campaign around the time of the election, with FF PR people able to get the leader on TV in soft focus with gentle questions - how could Harris reasonably complain about others engaging in the same type of operation against Bertie?

In fairness - this whole things stinks and everyone knows it. Only delusional people think that everything Bertie did was above board. Strong FF supporters that want Bertie to remain as Taoiseach will draw attention to everything else under the sun (the campaign etc) as long as it stops people talking about the payments.

Liam Byrne

edanto wrote:

this campaign is not organised by any one group or committee

Which is precisely why I'd object to allowing Harris call it a "campaign"....in the way that he means, it's not.

Initially, I was suspicious of the motive behind the some of the allegations against Bertie and others. I'm still not convinced that those are 100% pure, and THEY could be "a campaign".

But "for feck's sake Bertie, tell us once and for all where all that money came from...." [I hadn't realised it was so much until edanto posted about the Irish Times article] "....and please make it match the facts and documentation, and PLEASE don't change your story again next week" is NOT a "campaign" or bias, is it ?