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Dáil Protest and University Run to Dublin
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Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭
Join Date:Posts: 21860
gravity1036 wrote: »Eh no. :rolleyes: ec18 said that "WIT students are not interested" - (s)he has no grounds to make that statement as I could go out tomorrow and round up oodles of students who are in favour of it. Why are people being so negative about this when it affects all of our futures? I haven't spoken to every student in WIT but nor do I profess to represent them in the same way as that statement by ec18 would allude to.
Fair enough it was a sweeping statement, but thats not what I was talking about. Students that I have spoken to are negative mainly because WIT is such a shambles as it is, will University improve or make it worse? They think it will make it worse.I can be as sure as I can from recognising plenty of the names on that petition that are not WIT/TSSG staff. Why would you even imply such a thing and then follow it up with "I haven't looked", it just makes you look as if you're a wee bit bitter about something if you're trying to back up somebody else's argument without doing your own research.
What a lame argument. Can I not voice an opinion, even if its totaly ****ed up and of the rails? I do believe I can (within reason of course). How in the name of jesus is it "bitter". Im not backing up anyones argument, im responding to a point you made - its a discussion forum and I am entitled to do so (within reason).
My point is that based on what I am told, the start of the petition was mostly TSSG/WIT Staff and not students. Names were given to me, but I dont know them so I cant confirm nor deny they are. Nor do I really care, a petition wont get you very far imo.The reply was to ec18 BTW not you, so there was no accusation that you stated that every student in WIT...
See earlier point about it being a discussion board.
Maybe there are a good number of people against it, I'm sure that there are a good number of people against your and ec18's opinions too. Do you loose sleep over it? I would guess not,[/quote]
Why yes, Yes I do loose sleep over it.
[quite]in the same way that I don't worry about a minority of detractors in an overwhelmingly supportive majority. If ye guys are that pi$$ed with the WIT for some reason then try thinking outside the box for a moment and to what this facility means for FDI, start-up businesses, regional development and economic growth above your gripes with class quality, etc. Funding, time to mature and academic freedom will dramatically improve the quality of everything else in the college over time, just like it has done previously for the unis of this land, but detracting based on some personal gripe with facilities above a strong regional, economic and future-facing argument is just nonsense. Move on![/QUOTE]
Sorry, I never said I was against WIT becoming a university. Im rather undecided, but im more for then against.
You see, a big problem with people on this discussion is they wont hear anyone elses views. A lot of people are narrow minded and if people over a counter argument or disagree there is big arguments and people start calling each other names. Its like we cant debate things properly here at all. Similarly, when I made some contradictions (no matter how wrong or right I am) you start accusing me of getting personal and not thinking outside the box! You gotta think inside AND outside the box and make a decision based on that.0 -
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Fair enough it was a sweeping statement, but thats not what I was talking about. Students that I have spoken to are negative mainly because WIT is such a shambles as it is, will University improve or make it worse? They think it will make it worse.
Personal opinion Sully, based on very personal viewpoints I would imagine. The purpose of this overall discussion and case is to determine whether or not the South East needs a university - that is the question at the cabinet table. People with gripes about the quality of the teaching, which is highly subjective BTW without knowing that each complainant is a genius rather than a thicko, don't really have a lot to add to a discussion about whether the need exists or not.What a lame argument. Can I not voice an opinion, even if its totaly ****ed up and of the rails? I do believe I can (within reason of course). How in the name of jesus is it "bitter". Im not backing up anyones argument, im responding to a point you made - its a discussion forum and I am entitled to do so (within reason).
Of course you can voice an opinion dear sir, feel free to. My argument wasn't lame because it wasn't an argument, just a point. You jumped onto somebody else's argument with your cowboy hat in the air shouting yee-haw and then failed to back-up anything by openly admitting that you haven't even read the petition in question. What difference does it make even if WIT/TSSG people have signed it, are they not entitled to? Does that mean that it's entirely composed of these folk? Certainly not!My point is that based on what I am told, the start of the petition was mostly TSSG/WIT Staff and not students. Names were given to me, but I dont know them so I cant confirm nor deny they are. Nor do I really care, a petition wont get you very far imo.
Why add this if yet again you admit that you do not know - pointless rambling which serves no purpose other than you trying to allude to a hidden agenda/vested interest which is not the case.See earlier point about it being a discussion board.
Why yes, Yes I do loose sleep over it.
Sorry to hear that.Sorry, I never said I was against WIT becoming a university. Im rather undecided, but im more for then against.
For somebody who's more for it than against it you're expressing a lot of negativity about something that isn't even the University of the South East nor the main points in the case for such. Further more you're going a long way to implying that the employees of WIT are the only major group backing it which is certainly not the case. Successful Irish business people, sporting stars, and educational experts are all supporting it too, I refer you to last Tuesday's Irish Times if you haven't seen the full page letter of support yet.You see, a big problem with people on this discussion is they wont hear anyone elses views. A lot of people are narrow minded and if people over a counter argument or disagree there is big arguments and people start calling each other names. Its like we cant debate things properly here at all. Similarly, when I made some contradictions (no matter how wrong or right I am) you start accusing me of getting personal and not thinking outside the box! You gotta think inside AND outside the box and make a decision based on that.
I'm very open to hearing people's views on whether or not we need a university in the South East. What I'm not open to is people, possibly undergrads with personal gripes having never been to another 3rd level college, coming out and slamming the case because they feel the quality isn't there in WIT. By all means have that discussion if you want but try to focus on whether or not a university is needed for the region too instead of just spouting negativity that will essentially make the region defeat itself in this argument - we'll end up with no progress if that is the only talk emanating from the region.
In reference to your contradictions, well you didn't really have any. You just continually implied that the signatures of the people that you don't know on the petition that you haven't read are in some way vested interests or invalid. By all means Sully put a proper debate on the table and I'll gladly engage with you but as somebody who is very much behind this case and wants to see the entire South East develop so that some day my kids and everyone else's can have the options that I didn't have, you'll forgive me for being a bit grumpy towards people who are not asking the question about whether we need a university but merely giving out about their personal and limited experience with their only 3rd level undertaking.0 -
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Sorry but this is a discussion board. If you are not willing to listen to all points raised in the discussion, I advise you take this discussion somewhere there is a more narrow minded group willing to take on your limited discussion. All points are valid points and feel free to debate the point, but do not lay out a specific set of points and refuse to hear any others. Which my friend, is exactly what you are doing.
I don't need reminding that this is a discussion board but at the same time I shouldn't have to take a back seat when I see nonsense arguments being put forward as to why the entire region should be held back because of the views of the relative one or two. I'm not laying out any set of points as gospel, all I have said is that the decision to grant university status to the South East goes way beyond what people think of their experience with WIT. If I focused on the points raised by you and ec18 without looking at the bigger picture then that, my friend, would be a narrow minded argument that does not consider things such as economic growth, future investment, regional profile, potential for academic maturity and attraction of profile academics, meeting the expectations of a gateway city, I could go on in that list but I'm by far not the one with a very narrow focus in this discussion.Overall organisation, teaching quality, services available etc. might be considered "small" to you but to others who use this as a reason for not wanting it to be a university, you can take it in and give your reasons why this point isnt valid. That is a point raised, and you have to listen to it regardless if you want to take part in this discussion properly (ignoring them is fine). Bare in mind, that I have heard the counter arguments against it and it has changed my viewpoint considerably. Despite what you seem to think, I am undecided on the University status but I am more supporting it then against it.
As has been mentioned several times already, several international experts without bias have testified to the academic maturity and capability of WIT as a learning institution and facility for developing 3rd level and 4th level pursuits. These are not my opinions but recorded fact of people who have a view of far more academic institutions than you, I or ec18 could ever hope to have. If their opinion states that it is performing at the level of any university then it's certainly good enough for me. Why should anybody take the views of a single course experience over that learned and extensive knowledge base of these experts?Sorry, it was a lame point. My bad. This is a discussion form, as I said earlier, and I am perfectly permitted to respond to you or others points. Its not a private conversation and if you want that, take it to PM. Otherwise, expect me (and others) to reply to your (or anyone elses) points. End of. Oh and, drop the stupid comments - everyone has been somewat mature here and id hate to see one person drag that away.
Yet again I know that it is a discussion forum but yet again I reiterate that you jumped into a reply between ec18 and me whereby you supported his/her argument by stating that you didn't know/read what we were discussing. I have no problem accepting a counter argument but blindly supporting somebody and openly admitting that you do not know what we are talking about is a very weak way to counter an argument. Also I made no stupid comment or name-call, I merely suggested that we don't know the calibre of those who allegedly made these opinions and as such why should we take it that they are well-founded and unbiased? If hearsay is what you want then fair enough but that's not really a quality discussion.WIT/TSSG staff are allowed and should always be permitted to sign such petitions. My point is, its biased to say that everyone is in support when the petition at the start was a lot of WIT Staff or connections and not general public. If that is the case, if not, my apologises.
It's not biased to say that everyone is in support if that is the case. However, that is not what I said. I stated that not everyone on the petition was TSSG/WIT and that is a fact. I make no assumption as to what their motives are other than the fact that over 2600 people have now signed that petition and I would assume it is out of genuine support. A quick glance of the petition today shows plenty of ex-students too who seemingly don't have sour memories of their time in WIT/WRTC.What is this personal thing that I am supposed to have against WIT? Please, enlighten me since you clearly know so much about me.
I don't know anything about you nor did I say that you had a problem with WIT. I said that objecting to a university based on very personal experiences in a very limited exposure to WIT could be perceived as having some gripe with the college. The fact that you and ec18 continued to object based on this level of experience would suggest that ye were not willing to consider the wider spectrum of reasons for a university in the South East nor did any other reason seemingly matter. If I'm wrong then, whole heartedly, I apologise to you both.Ah now, seriously. Thats a complete load of bollix.
1) I have taken more of a backseat approach to this conversation and have not been very active,
2) I become active to either moderate if needed or to address points I feel I would like to raise,
3) The points (I do believe) were not my personal opinion on why WIT should not or should get a university status. Instead, I said what others seem to think that I have discussed it with. Your intelligence should show you that neither are the same. They, my friend, are polar opposites.
It's not a load of b***** as you put it. I can point out numerous lines in this thread where you make the implication that the petition online was someway only WIT/TSSG names despite you not knowing otherwise. As for backseat, as I said earlier and in a previous post you jumped in to support a negative argument without having a foundation to back yourself up. You also offered up your opinions on the word that you heard from others as you say. That's fine but why would you hide behind the guise of other people's opinions without expressing your own? If you are talking to experts on the subject then by all means let us know, it could be useful to talk to them and see what they have to say. If not then one can only assume that you share these same opinions despite you throwing in a token line to state that you are more in favour than against it, amidst your condemning monologue, of other people's negative opinions, as to why this shouldn't happen. I haven't seen a line of positive argument from you in this thread - again I apologise whole heartedly but for someone who claims to be in support above being against it, I'd like to see a word of positivity to that effect.I raised these points simply because ec18 was the only one who came forward with the comments (in this thread) which I have my own personal experiences with. His views, are not supported by me at all. He seems to be set against it.
This would seem to contradict your above point that you only expressed other people's opinions and not your own but here you claim to share the same opinions and experiences?A view supported by many of the lecturers inside in the WIT, people who work with the students problems or work inside in some of the college departments. Its widely known (at least to the large majority I have met since starting college) that WIT is fairly unorganised and has problems, but a lot of people feel this will be fixed on granting university status. Others, dont think so and this is why they dont support it - which is their opinion.
That's fair enough, I have no problem listening to that but I can also tell you that some of Ireland's leading universities are equally disorganised in many regards. I know this through either working with them, family members attending them and thinking that no other college would have these problems or via the hearsay that we all hear second hand from somewhere or other about every college in Ireland. They all seemingly have their own unique terribleness that no other college would have.I dont think I have EVER said that the application should only be considered on WITs academic or service grounds. It does have a large part to play in it, but consideration to the greater impact in the South East is also needed. However, please note, the application should not ONLY consider the South East impact and ignore how the college is run etc. Both are factored in.
Agreed, but as I said earlier, people, international experts with high profile careers and plenty more riding on their reputation than the alias of you or I, have put their name to the performance of WIT and say that it is ready. That question has been answered and the only one that remains at the cabinet table is if the South East needs a university and if the government are willing to grant it. Maybe we're coming at this from different viewpoints and different exposures to the facts and reports, I apologise if I have been overly agressive toward you but all the negative arguments about WIT's ability have been answered already and there's no point dragging them up again. As too have the economic arguments, regional need, etc, etc. The only question unanswered is the government position on this facility for the region. I have no gripe with you personally and I'll hopefully have a laugh and a joke with you in other threads in the future but I feel very passionate about this matter and have spent a great deal of time looking into the very particular arguments of this case beyond the rumour mill of negative hallway comments.My memory can be dodgy, but have I said the whole petition was only WIT Staff / Connections? I could have sworn I said the start of it was, and that if it continued that way the petition would be biased. However, there are other petitions (which I have signed) which had staff, connections, general public and students.
Fair enough, I shouldnt have commented without viewing the petition. It was a poor assumption on my behalf (to say that the start of it was biased, and if it continued that way the whole petition would be biased also), but I never applied the whole petition was (factually) biased or supported by only the college. Trust me, its supported by a LOT more people with no connections.
It wasn't that you explicitly said that but you said several times that the petition contained WIT/TSSG names in abundance without stating that any other names were on the petition which is the same as an implication that it is someway representing one grouping only. Why say that if it wasn't the intention? It doesn't matter who the names are otherwise.
I have no wish to exchange volumes of text with you as if you are in favour above being against this, then we can achieve far more by working together on this rather than taking each other apart on this forum. Just throw me a bone of a single positive comment and I'll stop barking. 0 -
Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 21860
gravity1036 wrote: »I don't need reminding that this is a discussion board but at the same time I shouldn't have to take a back seat when I see nonsense arguments being put forward as to why the entire region should be held back because of the views of the relative one or two. I'm not laying out any set of points as gospel, all I have said is that the decision to grant university status to the South East goes way beyond what people think of their experience with WIT. If I focused on the points raised by you and ec18 without looking at the bigger picture then that, my friend, would be a narrow minded argument that does not consider things such as economic growth, future investment, regional profile, potential for academic maturity and attraction of profile academics, meeting the expectations of a gateway city, I could go on in that list but I'm by far not the one with a very narrow focus in this discussion.
Already adressed that, and wont repeat myself.As has been mentioned several times already, several international experts without bias have testified to the academic maturity and capability of WIT as a learning institution and facility for developing 3rd level and 4th level pursuits. These are not my opinions but recorded fact of people who have a view of far more academic institutions than you, I or ec18 could ever hope to have. If their opinion states that it is performing at the level of any university then it's certainly good enough for me. Why should anybody take the views of a single course experience over that learned and extensive knowledge base of these experts?
Expressed my views on the report already, never said it was biased or against (or for) WIT. I wont repeat what I said about it either.Yet again I know that it is a discussion forum but yet again I reiterate that you jumped into a reply between ec18 and me whereby you supported his/her argument by stating that you didn't know/read what we were discussing. I have no problem accepting a counter argument but blindly supporting somebody and openly admitting that you do not know what we are talking about is a very weak way to counter an argument. Also I made no stupid comment or name-call, I merely suggested that we don't know the calibre of those who allegedly made these opinions and as such why should we take it that they are well-founded and unbiased? If hearsay is what you want then fair enough but that's not really a quality discussion.
I think I already cleared that all up at the end of my last post. I have to say the whole "hee haw" ****e was immature. Could you not comment without going to such a level?It's not biased to say that everyone is in support if that is the case. However, that is not what I said. I stated that not everyone on the petition was TSSG/WIT and that is a fact. I make no assumption as to what their motives are other than the fact that over 2600 people have now signed that petition and I would assume it is out of genuine support. A quick glance of the petition today shows plenty of ex-students too who seemingly don't have sour memories of their time in WIT/WRTC.
What? Your either twisting my word or mis understanding me. I stated that the petition would be biased if it was all WIT/TSSG Staff. Why? Because everyone voting for it works in, for or with WIT. Its not a proper petiton. But, I already clarified further about the petition and other ones. I wont repeat myself.
The problems within WIT might not be as big as you would prefer they are to be used in such an argument. However, they really shouldnt be there in the first place. My only fear was if wit got University the place would fall and become a lot worse. Clearly, from hearing other arguments, this would not be the case. You seem to have the attitude that the problems some people on Boards expressed about WIT being a shambles are the only complaints and everyone elses thinks its the sunshine college!I don't know anything about you nor did I say that you had a problem with WIT. I said that objecting to a university based on very personal experiences in a very limited exposure to WIT could be perceived as having some gripe with the college. The fact that you and ec18 continued to object based on this level of experience would suggest that ye were not willing to consider the wider spectrum of reasons for a university in the South East nor did any other reason seemingly matter. If I'm wrong then, whole heartedly, I apologise to you both.
Well thats what I got from your previous posts. Certinaly seemed you were implying that! These personal experiences you keep rambling about as if its only a handful of us complaining is far wider then that. Do a survey in WIT about what people think of the University campaign, do they support it, do they think the college is a good one, have they experienced any problems and if so on what scale. Maybe the Students Union might give you a rough view from their side. The Class Rep meetings give me a good view and from speaking with people in different years of different courses. A drop in the ocean perhaps, but points a lot of people feel strongly on.
I dont recall saying that I was agaisnt the campaign fully. I was always undecided, and made this clear. I am more supporting them now then I ever was - otherwise I would not have taken part in the protest last Wednesday.It's not a load of b***** as you put it. I can point out numerous lines in this thread where you make the implication that the petition online was someway only WIT/TSSG names despite you not knowing otherwise.
Find where I said it was completely (as in 100%) signed by WIT/TSSG people only.I have no wish to exchange volumes of text with you as if you are in favour above being against this, then we can achieve far more by working together on this rather than taking each other apart on this forum. Just throw me a bone of a single positive comment and I'll stop barking.
This is where I draw a close. I dont have the time to go through each point and debate with you. I will sign of on the following point:
I have always been undecided on whether I liked the idea of the University in WIT. I do believe the South East has been neglicted and a lot needs to be done. The University would be a huge step forward, and I have never once not considered this in regards to WITs application. I agreed in the past that the reports were netural. They gave some good points and pointed out some other points also.
Been in WIT only 3 years and think the college is great. I often wonder about some of the stuff that goes on in there, issues that have arrisen as class rep, issues that have arrisen in meetings with other class reps (with the Students Union), points raised by staff (lecturers) in WIT and general staff in WIT. Of course WIT is going to have problems as well all colleges/universties but sometimes trying to get things done or work around the problems can be a nightmare.
However, I ask myself: why do I have to spend a considerable part of my college time trying to fix problems my class mates bring to me and problems of my own inside the college? There problems often affect me, and someone needs to help them. I dont mind doing it, I enjoy doing it, but it can really get stressfull trying to sort it all out.
A college or university should not have continuous problems that means applying pressure, going to the Students Union for support, badgering Course Leaders or Year leaders all the time.
Communication should be open between all departments. Finding out what WITs policy on compensation is should not take a few weeks with everyone having a different answer.
It should not take half a semester to get a new lecturer, or to get a timetable that both the students and lecturers have.
Timetable changes should not happen at the end of a semester without notcing, then revert back and fourth several times until someone starts badgering the college to stick to one timetable.
Timetables should not take several weeks to finalise.
Exam timetables should not be done by one person, by hand by several or be done where there is no break inbetween exams but a 5 day stretch of exams with some students having two on some days.
Lecturers should not bully/make a mockery of their students in front of a whole class because they dont agree with a point.
The list goes on. I could spend all day writing up the ****e I have had to put up with since coming to WIT and its a drop in the ocean to what other class reps and the students union are dealing with on a daily basis. Its frustrating that these problems add extra un needed stress to a students college life. If left ignored, stress levels would be a lot worse and the college education that we pay fees for would be a waste. Students see these problems, see WITs application and get pissed. Why the hell should WIT be granted University when they can barley run as an IT? Great college, great courses, great services but a ****ing mess! A commonly asked question / raised point. Ignoring the benefits for the South East, as its never really raised in such a discussion. Fair enough people dont think its a good enough argument, but at the end of the day there all valid points.
The answer? Well, we cant say for certain but its hoped and suggested that getting a University status will put in the demand for a proper system, have the money to meet the demand and ensure that the cockups are kept as a little as possible. It will give a much needed boost to the South East - ideal for everyone.
But, what if matters get worse? What happens if WIT is known to be absolutely awful - would that not affect the South East in return? Sure, we have a university. But its piss poor. What happens in this event? Could the argument used by so many students disputed by so many pro-Uni campaigners here perhaps actually have a point? A bad university, could affect the South East. We could be the laughing stock. A great region, with a ****e University.
See the point yet? I already decided, but thats what I (and others who expressed points here and in persona) and others have on there mind. Im hoping that it wont be as bad if we get University.
(I know the spelling in this is awful, but im to tired to check it over!)0 -
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I don't think that's what I implied, and if I did, it certinaly isn't what was meant. I thought I stated clearly that the start of the petition apparently was TSSG/WIT Staff and I further clarified that if the petition continued that way it would be a biased petition. Your just choosing to ignore that.
The only thing being ignored here is my question to you of why you would choose to mention the signatures of any one group if you weren't trying to imply a vested interest. Yet again I ask what difference it makes who signs that petition? Also may I remind you of your previous posts:
"I havent looked, but I recall someone working out in the TSSG spotting a lot of WIT / TSSG Staff on that list."
and
"My point is that based on what I am told, the start of the petition was mostly TSSG/WIT Staff and not students. Names were given to me, but I dont know them so I cant confirm nor deny they are."
Why say these things if you are not trying to imply something?Im sorry but is WIT not supposed to be an educational institute, offering an education and stress-free (somewat) environment for students to learn in? Correct me if that is not what WIT is, please.
It is and it does and by your own admission, "I feel that I am getting a good education, that the facilities (when they work) are great, and when the lecturers show up or are assigned to courses the material covered is also great". I assume your missing lecturer was a one-off incident and that generally speaking you are getting classes delivered to the "great" quality that you say? So why are you spouting the same negativity time after time about the standard of the facility and the services it provides?An educational institute that is having difficulties running as an educational institute really should not be applying for university - regardless of the benefits. WIT has the services, it is the biggest college in the South East, it is organised to behave a bit like a university and really at some stage really SHOULD be a university but the real question posed by me and others is: Is WIT ready to take on University?. I have my doubts, as a student inside in the WIT and having to deal with poor management and organisation. Your implying WITs problems appearing in every IT and University. I cant say that it has, but my brothers, sisters and relations who have all been everywhere but WIT say that the problems we students experience in WIT are not as widespread as "Pro Uni" people like yourself are making out.
Well we agree to disagree somewhat here, based entirely on personal and anecdotal experience. However, we both agree that expert testimonies have been given by people in by far a better position to judge this than you or I and that these reports are independent and true.If this is how its running as an IT, will things get worse not better as a university? Its the only point holding me back from a definite "YES!". I don't care if you think my points are personal, negative etc. Thats your view and interpretation but certinally is not my view and the view from many students.
But you just said that your experience is good now in this post, that you are getting a good education and that the facilities are great when they work? Which is it?"Find" problems?! No, they don't "find" problems.
Fair enough my phrasing was off. I meant identify rather than find for the sake of it, if that's how you interpreted it. Not much point in having class reps who keep saying that everything is rosy and they have nothing to discuss.What are the point in lecturers, or course material? Whats the point in going to University to get better courses and lecturers if we are to learn on our own? And how can we learn if we never had a lecturer, dont know the course material, or cant understand part of material that we do know (in cases where a lecturer does a small bit of work if he/she is ever there).
Having been through a similar situation to you with a missing lecturer for about 2.5 months of my course I recall my own personal experience. I got my hands on the syllabus, tracked down exam papers, and did as much as I could on my own until such time that a lecturer was sorted out. I was irate at the time being left alone but it didn't stop me from realising that a final exam was still going to happen and that I had two choices, to make life easier for myself or to whinge until things got sorted. I'm not saying that people have to teach themselves but these are extreme and temporary issues and can be worked around I'm not suggesting that you get your own teaching skills ratified by the HEA. At the end of the day all companies have staffing problems at some time or another and can't provide a part of their service. The college is no different and suffers from the same conditions as any industry. It's unfortunate when things happen like that but it's nigh on impossible to predict and make allowances for it.I feel that I am getting a good education, that the facilities (when they work) are great, and when the lecturers show up or are assigned to courses the material covered is also great. At least, for the course that I am doing. I cant speak about other courses mind you. However, if we had a lecturer missing for one of our toughest subjects for the large majority of the semester (more then half) then it is going to be very difficult to do the exam in that subject!
Agreed, it is difficult but not impossible. The college would have to make allowances in that situation and I'm sure that they did. The only thing I would be worried about there would be that you didn't get a chance to cover certain material that a normal full semester would have allowed. I can't imagine that you were examined on material that you didn't cover.Well not perfect, but a lot of improvements should be made before. However, after speaking with many people and listening to the likes of merlante who put forward some excellent points - I think that the University for WIT will demand higher expectations and as a result, will cut back the problems WIT are currently having. Plus, the move over wont be instant so maybe the problems will be sorted before it ever gets to be a fully functional university? This is what I hope will happen and not the opposite - what is bad, getting a lot worse and damaging what we hope will be an improvement for the South East region.
Agreed again. More funding, being able to attract more staff, higher profile staff, having more finances available for developing lab, lecture and other facilities certainly does make a difference. Despite the problems that both you and I have encountered the college really does do a very good job overall in terms of delivering full time undergrad studies, part time adult education, post grad courses (taught and research) and doctoral programmes since the granting of level 10 awards a few years back. I look forward to the college developing and strengthening itself over the coming years too if and when uni status is hopefully delivered. It would be a disaster to maintain the status quo as that inevitably leaves us trailing more established facilities as they develop but to play Devil's Advocate here, there's no carrot in front of the donkey if a decision to never grant uni status is made either.Please compile a list of all my WIT posts, and group them into Negative and Positive about WIT. Until such a time, please don't say that 90% of my WIT posts are negative considering I have taken a considerable back seat approach to the WIT University topic.
Again my statement perhaps lacked context, perhaps I didn't think it was necessary. However, in the context of this thread the content of your posts has been arbitrarily 90% negative, focusing on the problems with staffing, etc in WIT rather than the advances made, buildings developed, lands acquired, new education programmes and award levels achieved, etc that WIT has gotten right over the last 10 years. There are problems but it's not all bad nor is it bad enough to prevent upgrade, as has been expertly agreed upon. A little positivity for the case that will help the college and extensively help the region wouldn't go astray. 0 -
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gravity1036 wrote: »The only thing being ignored here is my question to you of why you would choose to mention the signatures of any one group if you weren't trying to imply a vested interest. Yet again I ask what difference it makes who signs that petition? Also may I remind you of your previous posts:
"I havent looked, but I recall someone working out in the TSSG spotting a lot of WIT / TSSG Staff on that list."
and
"My point is that based on what I am told, the start of the petition was mostly TSSG/WIT Staff and not students. Names were given to me, but I dont know them so I cant confirm nor deny they are."
Why say these things if you are not trying to imply something?
Already answered this one. Ill answer it again for you, just once and that will be the end of it. Your claiming im ignoring you but your ignoring my response as its not what your looking for.
If the petition, thats IF, was full of TSSG/WIT Staff like it started with then the views of the independent people such as students, businessmen, general south east population etc would not be heard. Therefore, this survey would be biased and not a true reflection of support for or against University status for WIT. Its not how a proper survey is conducted, nor btw is it possible to survey everyone in WIT to get their opinion - you select a popular and survey them instead. Obviously, this isnt the case. I just said the start of it was and I meant that if it continued it would be biased (stated later) but I also agreed the point was pretty stupid and I withdrew the comment earlier as it was pointless of me to bring up.It is and it does and by your own admission, "I feel that I am getting a good education, that the facilities (when they work) are great, and when the lecturers show up or are assigned to courses the material covered is also great". I assume your missing lecturer was a one-off incident and that generally speaking you are getting classes delivered to the "great" quality that you say? So why are you spouting the same negativity time after time about the standard of the facility and the services it provides?
Pushing the problems aside, and focusing on the postive: overall, I am happy with WIT and wouldnt move away. Its very frustrating but there are a lot of people pushing to get these problems sorted. As for University, I didnt think it was really ready based on poor management / organisation problems and feared the matter would only get worse. I weighed up the Pros and Cons, and thats the conclusion I came to based on WIT alone. Its poor to have a college life for a student to based a large amount of stress inflected upon by the college rather then the student for failing to study etc. However as iv said countless of times, based on discussion here I feel the University status might actually be a huge factor in fixing it.
Hope that clears up the confusion.But you just said that your experience is good now in this post, that you are getting a good education and that the facilities are great when they work? Which is it?
See above.Fair enough my phrasing was off. I meant identify rather than find for the sake of it, if that's how you interpreted it. Not much point in having class reps who keep saying that everything is rosy and they have nothing to discuss.
You clearly dont understand the role of a class rep. "Identify" is the same meaning as "Find".Having been through a similar situation to you with a missing lecturer for about 2.5 months of my course I recall my own personal experience. I got my hands on the syllabus, tracked down exam papers, and did as much as I could on my own until such time that a lecturer was sorted out. I was irate at the time being left alone but it didn't stop me from realising that a final exam was still going to happen and that I had two choices, to make life easier for myself or to whinge until things got sorted. I'm not saying that people have to teach themselves but these are extreme and temporary issues and can be worked around I'm not suggesting that you get your own teaching skills ratified by the HEA. At the end of the day all companies have staffing problems at some time or another and can't provide a part of their service. The college is no different and suffers from the same conditions as any industry. It's unfortunate when things happen like that but it's nigh on impossible to predict and make allowances for it.
Agreed, it is difficult but not impossible. The college would have to make allowances in that situation and I'm sure that they did. The only thing I would be worried about there would be that you didn't get a chance to cover certain material that a normal full semester would have allowed. I can't imagine that you were examined on material that you didn't cover.
Thats not possible in every situation / course, seriously now. Each lecturer teaches the course differently, approaches the exams differently, covers different topics, some topics cant be understood without the assistance of a lecturer, books might not explain the situation very well etc.
Based on current and past experience, as I am a repeating student, if I had studied my old notes it would have done me very little good - why? As the lecturer that we finally got did things completely differently. Iv seen how the college agrees on course material for each subject and its not very specific. Its broad and leaves the lecturer to cover things his or her way (leaving out certain areas within topics or including them). Plus the new lecturers exam papers were completely different to the older set I had. Furthermore, for most of the subjects in my course the past exam papers were for an older syallbus that did not apply to us. Makes your point hang itself in shame really.Again my statement perhaps lacked context, perhaps I didn't think it was necessary. However, in the context of this thread the content of your posts has been arbitrarily 90% negative, focusing on the problems with staffing, etc in WIT rather than the advances made, buildings developed, lands acquired, new education programmes and award levels achieved, etc that WIT has gotten right over the last 10 years. There are problems but it's not all bad nor is it bad enough to prevent upgrade, as has been expertly agreed upon. A little positivity for the case that will help the college and extensively help the region wouldn't go astray.
My original question still stands. And you say I ignore questions!0 -
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